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Post by francegas on Jun 17, 2022 10:26:42 GMT
I hope not. What an undemocratic and defeatist thing that would be. It would be like Rovers needing to win 7-0 to secure promotion but throwing the towel in after 15mins because they don't believe in themselves. Or if after a general election and god forbid that tw*t Starmer got in and I came on here demanding another general election because I wasn't happy with the result of the previous one. I'm pretty sure people (Yatton especially) would be coming on here saying "you lost get over it" Aha Another democracy denier. How have you come that conclusion. I think there are a good few on here who need to look in a mirror to see someone who doesn't believe in a democracy.
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Post by oldie on Jun 17, 2022 10:45:34 GMT
Aha Another democracy denier. How have you come that conclusion. I think there are a good few on here who need to look in a mirror to see someone who doesn't believe in a democracy. France In a Parliamentary democracy, when you lose an election you accept it but then set to work to try and win the next one. When a ruling party puts a law/treaty on the statute book, it stays there until it may be altered or removed by a subsequent ruling party. That's democracy. You appear to have claimed that operating like that is undemocratic, when in fact the opposite is the case.
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Post by francegas on Jun 17, 2022 10:51:02 GMT
How have you come that conclusion. I think there are a good few on here who need to look in a mirror to see someone who doesn't believe in a democracy. France In a Parliamentary democracy, when you lose an election you accept it but then set to work to try and win the next one. When a ruling party puts a law/treaty on the statute book, it stays there until it may be altered or removed by a subsequent ruling party. That's democracy. You appear to have claimed that operating like that is undemocratic, when in fact the opposite is the case. So what your saying is it's Democratic to have referendum after referendum until you get the result you want and then you stop.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 17, 2022 10:59:11 GMT
Looks like Ukraine will get candidacy status soon, probably tokenism as it will still take years, but it's a start. Wonder if we'll apply soon. 😇 I hope not. What an undemocratic and defeatist thing that would be. It would be like Rovers needing to win 7-0 to secure promotion but throwing the towel in after 15mins because they don't believe in themselves. Or if after a general election and god forbid that tw*t Starmer got in and I came on here demanding another general election because I wasn't happy with the result of the previous one. I'm pretty sure people (Yatton especially) would be coming on here saying "you lost get over it" Poor analogy, FG, we have GEs every 4-5 years. Surely there is no reason why we couldn't run another referendum, perhaps not now but at some point in the future. After all, why should my children be bound by what their grandparents chose for them (demographic wise, that's what happened). Leaving that aside, if a future government chose closer ties such as rejoining the Single Market, should that be for Parliament to decide or put to a referendum?
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Post by oldie on Jun 17, 2022 11:06:24 GMT
France In a Parliamentary democracy, when you lose an election you accept it but then set to work to try and win the next one. When a ruling party puts a law/treaty on the statute book, it stays there until it may be altered or removed by a subsequent ruling party. That's democracy. You appear to have claimed that operating like that is undemocratic, when in fact the opposite is the case. So what your saying is it's Democratic to have referendum after referendum until you get the result you want and then you stop. No What I am saying and it's a material fact, we elect a party into power based upon their declared manifesto. If a party states that if voted into power they will apply to rejoin the EU, or apply to join the customs union, then if you agree you vote for that party, if not you do not. That's democracy.
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Post by peterparker on Jun 17, 2022 13:45:38 GMT
So what your saying is it's Democratic to have referendum after referendum until you get the result you want and then you stop. No What I am saying and it's a material fact, we elect a party into power based upon their declared manifesto. If a party states that if voted into power they will apply to rejoin the EU, or apply to join the customs union, then if you agree you vote for that party, if not you do not. That's democracy. indeed, I see people are moaning about Sturgeon pushing for a referendum, because they had one in 2014. I mean since then we have had BREXIT where Scotland voted remain and last time I checked the SNP were elected in Westminster and Holyrood on a platform of independence which is exactly a secret is it
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 17, 2022 13:55:55 GMT
No What I am saying and it's a material fact, we elect a party into power based upon their declared manifesto. If a party states that if voted into power they will apply to rejoin the EU, or apply to join the customs union, then if you agree you vote for that party, if not you do not. That's democracy. indeed, I see people are moaning about Sturgeon pushing for a referendum, because they had one in 2014. I mean since then we have had BREXIT where Scotland voted remain and last time I checked the SNP were elected in Westminster and Holyrood on a platform of independence which is exactly a secret is it I would love for them to have another referendum and vote to leave they've been wittering on about it for far to long
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Post by francegas on Jun 17, 2022 15:30:04 GMT
No What I am saying and it's a material fact, we elect a party into power based upon their declared manifesto. If a party states that if voted into power they will apply to rejoin the EU, or apply to join the customs union, then if you agree you vote for that party, if not you do not. That's democracy. indeed, I see people are moaning about Sturgeon pushing for a referendum, because they had one in 2014. I mean since then we have had BREXIT where Scotland voted remain and last time I checked the SNP were elected in Westminster and Holyrood on a platform of independence which is exactly a secret is it Sturgeon has been after a second referendum before Brexit. Do you seriously believe had they voted to leave she would be pushing for another? No she wouldn't she would be saying it's a once in a lifetime vote and we voted to leave and that's it.
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Post by oldie on Jun 17, 2022 16:43:31 GMT
indeed, I see people are moaning about Sturgeon pushing for a referendum, because they had one in 2014. I mean since then we have had BREXIT where Scotland voted remain and last time I checked the SNP were elected in Westminster and Holyrood on a platform of independence which is exactly a secret is it Sturgeon has been after a second referendum before Brexit. Do you seriously believe had they voted to leave she would be pushing for another? No she wouldn't she would be saying it's a once in a lifetime vote and we voted to leave and that's it. You cannot know that. Making up a case does not make it true.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 17, 2022 16:53:01 GMT
indeed, I see people are moaning about Sturgeon pushing for a referendum, because they had one in 2014. I mean since then we have had BREXIT where Scotland voted remain and last time I checked the SNP were elected in Westminster and Holyrood on a platform of independence which is exactly a secret is it Sturgeon has been after a second referendum before Brexit. Do you seriously believe had they voted to leave she would be pushing for another? No she wouldn't she would be saying it's a once in a lifetime vote and we voted to leave and that's it. As did Nigel Farage, up until he won, the hypocrite.
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Post by francegas on Jun 17, 2022 17:39:18 GMT
Sturgeon has been after a second referendum before Brexit. Do you seriously believe had they voted to leave she would be pushing for another? No she wouldn't she would be saying it's a once in a lifetime vote and we voted to leave and that's it. You cannot know that. Making up a case does not make it true. Oh come on Oldie please.... why since the result of the Scottish referendum has she wanted another? Because the result wasn't what she wanted. Had she got that first time round you me and the UK know full well she wouldn't push for a second vote.
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Post by yattongas on Jun 17, 2022 18:08:25 GMT
Sturgeon has been after a second referendum before Brexit. Do you seriously believe had they voted to leave she would be pushing for another? No she wouldn't she would be saying it's a once in a lifetime vote and we voted to leave and that's it. As did Nigel Farage, up until he won, the hypocrite. Exactly , there’s a few Brexit headbangers on record as saying there should be another referendum as they expected to lose the first one. Tossers 🙄
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Post by yattongas on Jun 17, 2022 18:09:51 GMT
You cannot know that. Making up a case does not make it true. Oh come on Oldie please.... why since the result of the Scottish referendum has she wanted another? Because the result wasn't what she wanted. Had she got that first time round you me and the UK know full well she wouldn't push for a second vote. Obvs not but the unionists would start planning for one . That’s democracy. 🙄
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 17, 2022 19:21:55 GMT
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Post by yattongas on Jun 17, 2022 19:59:06 GMT
interesting read as you say but the constant lines you read of “we haven’t made the most of the opportunities that Brexit gives us “ is just nonsense. There aren’t any. The good thing is those who voted for it are starting to question it….. slowly but surely it’s starting to click it was a f…ing sh** idea doomed to failure! 🙄
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Post by oldie on Jun 17, 2022 20:03:35 GMT
You cannot know that. Making up a case does not make it true. Oh come on Oldie please.... why since the result of the Scottish referendum has she wanted another? Because the result wasn't what she wanted. Had she got that first time round you me and the UK know full well she wouldn't push for a second vote. Maybe not. But she won't be in power forever. The Scots could apply to rejoin the UK if indeed they did leave.
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 17, 2022 20:17:54 GMT
Oh come on Oldie please.... why since the result of the Scottish referendum has she wanted another? Because the result wasn't what she wanted. Had she got that first time round you me and the UK know full well she wouldn't push for a second vote. Maybe not. But she won't be in power forever. The Scots could apply to rejoin the UK if indeed they did leave. Oh god NO😊
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Post by yattongas on Jun 17, 2022 20:29:51 GMT
Maybe not. But she won't be in power forever. The Scots could apply to rejoin the UK if indeed they did leave. Oh god NO😊 Hi Clive 👋 Still happy with your Brexit vote ?
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 17, 2022 23:01:44 GMT
Hi Clive 👋 Still happy with your Brexit vote ? Not sure you will get many on here to admit their mistakes. I'm sure if it were to happen to me at some point, hypothetically speaking, I won't be keen to acknowledge it either. 😎
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 17, 2022 23:39:31 GMT
Oh come on Oldie please.... why since the result of the Scottish referendum has she wanted another? Because the result wasn't what she wanted. Had she got that first time round you me and the UK know full well she wouldn't push for a second vote. Maybe not. But she won't be in power forever. The Scots could apply to rejoin the UK if indeed they did leave. Like the Conservatives and Boris, there isn't really anyone obvious to replace her. Incidentally, I see there is a debate on WTO over on the other place, something I used to know a bit about in my jousting matches on the old Brexit thread. You may find this useful vis a vis treaty nomenclature. www.wto.org/english/res_e/publications_e/wto_legal_instruments_e.htm
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