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Post by bridgwatergas on Feb 14, 2021 12:23:01 GMT
You can mention that all you like in these games were they sent off for one reckless challenge or 2 yellow cards? If memory serves me right all were 2 yellows and were down to us playing well and putting pressure on the team resulting in fouls that merited cards. I don't and will not buy into the 10 men excuse it happens for a reason. Also wasn't it a massive talking point on here how we never beat 10 men and look poor against teams that then set up more defensively and we can't break them down. We can take Blackpool at home as an example (13 months ago). A frankly ridiculous, reckless challenge on Abs resulted in a red card, after a mainly even game that Blackpool missed some sitters early doors. Alfie hits a wind assisted beauty from 30 yards. Ginnely gets a deflection. Hey presto, we win! A first win for BG after 14 matches.. I agree with jerry......context. So you use Blackpool where we were a touch lucky but not Lincoln when we were the better side and Northampton who came here with a game plan to defend and paid the price.
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Post by carlts2020 on Feb 14, 2021 12:35:40 GMT
Fantastic and very well put. If we were 10th or 12th when Garner took over I firmly believe he would still be here and our squad would be flourishing, yes with the odd bump in the road like Fleetwood, but the squad were with him and we were improving. I personally think that sacking has set us back 5 years as a club. On this you may have a point. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I can at least respect your view on it, but we'll never know. Where you lose credibility is trying to warp the stats to suit your argument. It doesn't wash, hence why G&E took the time to make this thread. Your view on it might be something that I can buy into, but the trouble is, BG did have plenty of time and if his results were a bit closer to average, sacking him would have been a travesty. However, you have to draw a line somewhere. Despite his best intentions and the fact he was brought in to change the ethos of the club, there was too much risk in continuing with him when we were not showing tangible improvement in results or performances. His post match press conferences did him no favours either as he was always dishonest which is just a slap in the face to those watching, and it made his position progressively more untenable. It was normally either the refs' fault, or we supposedly played well because we had more possession than the other team. Which means diddly squat if that possession is in your own third. If he had the humility to admit where the team was failing and show willing to turn it around, us fans and the board might have been willing to give him more time. BG complaining about the ref or believing we played well when others didn’t isn’t dishonest. He only ever blamed the players once and that was the Fleetwood game when he also apologised to the fans. He did go over the top on refs but was he even dishonest? Not at all
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 12:44:09 GMT
You can mention that all you like in these games were they sent off for one reckless challenge or 2 yellow cards? If memory serves me right all were 2 yellows and were down to us playing well and putting pressure on the team resulting in fouls that merited cards. I don't and will not buy into the 10 men excuse it happens for a reason. Also wasn't it a massive talking point on here how we never beat 10 men and look poor against teams that then set up more defensively and we can't break them down. We can take Blackpool at home as an example (13 months ago). A frankly ridiculous, reckless challenge on Abs resulted in a red card, after a mainly even game that Blackpool missed some sitters early doors. Alfie hits a wind assisted beauty from 30 yards. Ginnely gets a deflection. Hey presto, we win! A first win for BG after 14 matches.. I agree with jerry......context. So how many lucky wins did DC have in his tenure? I can remember one at Wembley that was HUGE but not complaining there are we? it’s part and parcel of the game.
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Post by scottleroc on Feb 14, 2021 12:49:11 GMT
A quick point, I don’t think anyone should feel sorry for PT. He came in after, arguably, one of of our worst ever mangers and things actually deteriorated. He signed a, presumably, reasonably lucrative contract, picked some random teams and formations, motivated no one and slagged off the board, talked as much nonsense as BG (just different nonsense) then left. All within 80 days or so. Not bad work if you can get it, 2.5 years pay for 2.5 months work👌 A conspiracy theorist might say he tried to lose his job asap once he realised he couldn’t get a tune out of them😬
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Post by Jomo on Feb 14, 2021 12:55:15 GMT
On this you may have a point. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I can at least respect your view on it, but we'll never know. Where you lose credibility is trying to warp the stats to suit your argument. It doesn't wash, hence why G&E took the time to make this thread. Your view on it might be something that I can buy into, but the trouble is, BG did have plenty of time and if his results were a bit closer to average, sacking him would have been a travesty. However, you have to draw a line somewhere. Despite his best intentions and the fact he was brought in to change the ethos of the club, there was too much risk in continuing with him when we were not showing tangible improvement in results or performances. His post match press conferences did him no favours either as he was always dishonest which is just a slap in the face to those watching, and it made his position progressively more untenable. It was normally either the refs' fault, or we supposedly played well because we had more possession than the other team. Which means diddly squat if that possession is in your own third. If he had the humility to admit where the team was failing and show willing to turn it around, us fans and the board might have been willing to give him more time. BG complaining about the ref or believing we played well when others didn’t isn’t dishonest. He only ever blamed the players once and that was the Fleetwood game when he also apologised to the fans. He did go over the top on refs but was he even dishonest? Not at all Yes he was dishonest. Moaning about the ref and not acknowledging the actual reasons for defeat after a poor team performance is being dishonest in your assessment of the match. Claiming we created lots of chances and had more possession than Peterborough thus implying we were the better side, was being dishonest. Possession does not and never has and never will, mean more than chances created and ultimately goals scored. You're right that he was honest after the Fleetwood game, which was the only time this season that he acknowledged we were crap.
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Post by 4d on Feb 14, 2021 15:28:40 GMT
Yet again a very poor post blaming BG for what happened and not seeing the bigger picture. He didnt come in and just get rid of everyone it was part of a plan from higher up to try and make the club more sustainable but you don't see that. If this wasn't done I fear we would have no club left after Covid as losses were bad enough then with players on contracts that were quite frankly absurd,remember we are still paying KB who was not BG signing this was a problem that was created back in the DC days. I have posted earlier and can't be bothered to go explain it all again. To blame all this on Garner is ridiculous and very short sighted. KB and TN were correctly identified by BG and invited to pursue their careers elsewhere, I've given credit for this and probably only decision I've agreed with from BG. Both were downfalls of DC. Big picture and sustainability at what cost? Relegation? Would that have been acceptable? The "contracts absurd" would easily have been covered by promotion to the Championship and all the funds that generates. It would easily have paid for itself. BG has put us back years. It was a nice idea to play tippy tappy start no striker football. But in an uncompromising, physical, 3rd division without replacing JCH we are doomed to repeat the Lambo lesson by starting the season with one recognised striker at this level, with the rest rookies and left wondering where our goals are going to come from!? Where did this nonsense of no striker football come from? Hanlan played every League game under Garner and Daly started 8 games so in the majority of those we had 2 strikers. For the record in this period Hanlan scored 4 goals in 12 games and Daly 3 in 8. So whilst neither was prolific they were both on for over 15 goals this season which for 2 young strikers would have been a good platform. Main thing that let Garner down and the way he wanted to play was the players he had to play off the strikers. Nicholson was injured for a large period and Mitchell-Lawson was a shadow of the player we had last year - not sure what happened to him. Pretty sure the plan was to play Hanlan with Mitchell-Lawson and Nicholson off of him with Daly in reserve. Based on the Mitchell-Lawson of last season and now we’ve seen the quality of Nicholson, I can see why Garner thought that would be competitive in this league.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 14, 2021 15:35:20 GMT
Not sure what has been the most tedious, watching Garner's team play, or watching new posters sign up to defend him on this forum.
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Post by Strange Gas on Feb 14, 2021 15:42:20 GMT
A quick point, I don’t think anyone should feel sorry for PT. He came in after, arguably, one of of our worst ever mangers and things actually deteriorated. He signed a, presumably, reasonably lucrative contract, picked some random teams and formations, motivated no one and slagged off the board, talked as much nonsense as BG (just different nonsense) then left. All within 80 days or so. Not bad work if you can get it, 2.5 years pay for 2.5 months work👌 A conspiracy theorist might say he tried to lose his job asap once he realised he couldn’t get a tune out of them😬 I totally think he took the role in a hurry then couldn’t wait to leave as looked too difficult. I remember he took a couple of weeks before he’d say the team and result was his, the “I’ve only been here 2 weeks” routine was odd as managers usually come in guns ho saying they will turn it around to benefit from the bounce. We know he’s a thinking man but . . . Not sad to see him gone tbh, but was taken in for a while!
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Post by carlts2020 on Feb 14, 2021 15:42:44 GMT
Not sure what has been the most tedious, watching Garner's team play, or watching new posters sign up to defend him on this forum. I would say you and topper stalking the forum trying to find any BG positive related post to disagree with and moan about.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 14, 2021 15:44:09 GMT
Not sure what has been the most tedious, watching Garner's team play, or watching new posters sign up to defend him on this forum. I would say you and topper stalking the forum trying to find any BG positive related post to disagree with and moan about. Not true, I stalk this forum to find any post to disagree with and moan about.
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Post by chilly1883 on Feb 14, 2021 15:45:21 GMT
I blame corona! Got a lot to answer for!
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Post by 4d on Feb 14, 2021 15:46:49 GMT
Not sure what has been the most tedious, watching Garner's team play, or watching new posters sign up to defend him on this forum. I’ve followed this forum for a while and used to be a regular contributor on the original, and better, one. But yeah it was actually the amount of inaccurate anti-Garner nonsense that prompted me to post. Never read so much tripe in my life.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 14, 2021 15:50:12 GMT
Not sure what has been the most tedious, watching Garner's team play, or watching new posters sign up to defend him on this forum. I’ve followed this forum for a while and used to be a regular contributor on the original, and better, one. But yeah it was actually the amount of inaccurate anti-Garner nonsense that prompted me to post. Never read so much tripe in my life. Says the bloke who comes up with bilge like "Both managers had the same hand in terms of players but Garner had the extra challenge of ... the fact that the players were new to each other." You don't think the fact that it was his team and he had a pre-season with them, and that he didn't take over in the middle of a relegation fight might not outweigh that 'disadvantage' slightly?
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Feb 14, 2021 15:53:26 GMT
I’ve followed this forum for a while and used to be a regular contributor on the original, and better, one. But yeah it was actually the amount of inaccurate anti-Garner nonsense that prompted me to post. Never read so much tripe in my life. Says the bloke who comes up with bilge like "Both managers had the same hand in terms of players but Garner had the extra challenge of ... the fact that the players were new to each other." You don't think the fact that it was his team and he had a pre-season with them, and that he didn't take over in the middle of a relegation fight might not outweigh that 'disadvantage' slightly? I imagine there was also a lot of positivity, energy, excitement etc. amongst the squad in the early days of the season, with lots of new faces & talk of a play-off push in the local media & amongst sections of the fanbase. I reckon Tisdale took over a squad that was in a much worse place mentally & emotionally.
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Post by madgas on Feb 14, 2021 15:54:11 GMT
Think the notion of this thread shows how willing our fanbase are up for a scrap with one another right now. I think many are still upset how it ended with DC and Coughlan and now taking entrenched views before its begun. But regarding these two:
I liked garner- he failed
I didnt really like tisdale - he failed
From a personal perspective theres a difference. What I believe one might achieve in the game vs other- theres a difference. BUT- in terms of Bristol Rovers neither worked. Move on.
Moving on... it is for this reason Joey Barton would be a disaster imo.
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Post by 4d on Feb 14, 2021 16:03:04 GMT
I’ve followed this forum for a while and used to be a regular contributor on the original, and better, one. But yeah it was actually the amount of inaccurate anti-Garner nonsense that prompted me to post. Never read so much tripe in my life. Says the bloke who comes up with bilge like "Both managers had the same hand in terms of players but Garner had the extra challenge of ... the fact that the players were new to each other." You don't think the fact that it was his team and he had a pre-season with them, and that he didn't take over in the middle of a relegation fight might not outweigh that 'disadvantage' slightly? I’m not sure 12 points after 11 games classes as a relegation fight. Wins against the awful Swindon and Wigan and we’d have been closer to the playoffs than relegation. Any decent manager would have noticed the potential we’d shown in the early part of the season, tweaked a few things and we’d have been fine. Tisdale wanted to rip it up and start again and that’s why we’re in this mess.
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Post by Gas-Ed on Feb 14, 2021 16:09:01 GMT
Personally, I’m getting bored of the Garner vs Tisdale debate. Both failed to get results for this football club and a combination of BG and PT leaves us in a perilous position. It’s like choosing between standing in dog poo or fox poo.
Time to move on and hopefully upwards.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 16:13:36 GMT
Personally, I’m getting bored of the Garner vs Tisdale debate. Both failed to get results for this football club and a combination of BG and PT leaves us in a perilous position. It’s like choosing between standing in dog poo or fox poo. Time to move on and hopefully upwards. Not just their faults I’m afraid.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 14, 2021 16:19:19 GMT
Says the bloke who comes up with bilge like "Both managers had the same hand in terms of players but Garner had the extra challenge of ... the fact that the players were new to each other." You don't think the fact that it was his team and he had a pre-season with them, and that he didn't take over in the middle of a relegation fight might not outweigh that 'disadvantage' slightly? I’m not sure 12 points after 11 games classes as a relegation fight. Wins against the awful Swindon and Wigan and we’d have been closer to the playoffs than relegation. Any decent manager would have noticed the potential we’d shown in the early part of the season, tweaked a few things and we’d have been fine. Tisdale wanted to rip it up and start again and that’s why we’re in this mess. 12 points after 11 games is an average of 50 points per season. The last time we completed a season a team with 50 points got relegated. And the season before that. So, yeah it's relegation form. Not sure why you think any decent manager would be able to spot our potential and tweak it a bit, when BG wasn't able to, or are you saying he isn't decent?
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Post by gasandelectricity on Feb 14, 2021 16:22:51 GMT
Not sure what has been the most tedious, watching Garner's team play, or watching new posters sign up to defend him on this forum. I would say you and topper stalking the forum trying to find any BG positive related post to disagree with and moan about. AF is a balanced poster. Amazed you’re picking him out for being anti-BG when he has said before he’d have given him more time. Posters are more fed up with the constant defence of Garner on every thread and mention of 1.38 ppg when he isn’t even our last manager any more. He failed, he’s gone, move on. It’s a pointless debate no matter what side you fall on in terms of should he have been moved on when he did. It’s effectively the gas version of crying over spilt milk to dwell on this.
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