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Post by lpgas1 on Jun 11, 2021 13:28:51 GMT
What poor treatment of Mansell? He was sacked as the club is reorganising its backroom staff. If he wasnt an ex player then no one would be bothered. As for the supporters club it is badly run, irrevelant to most supporters and so dis-organised one of its memebers embezles it. How do you know Wael is rapidly running out of funds? You dont. There are no other group of investors. Its a story that was dead 3 years ago. If you are concerned then I suggest you buy a season ticket if you haven't already I suggest you look at the reaction of his former teammates to get an indication of the poor treatment that took place. If he wasnt an ex-player no one would give a jot. As for his former team mates, they have all gone as well. Football changes quickly, as does the personnel. Getting the sack is one thing, being treated badly is something else, and you dont know how he has been treated.
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 11, 2021 13:50:46 GMT
I’ve been trying my hardest not to get involved in this thread as I just get wound up by it all.... the playing of a ‘concerned’ gas head card by spouting ‘facts’ which are not facts but assumptions or subjective views that align with a particular agenda view..... but at the risk of being called a rose tinter and happy clapper this is what I believe Wael has done that should be praised... Pre Wael - Unsustainable debt (yes it was lower than what was accrued since but the directors openly said they could not afford it) - No training ground - High cost loan and external debt - real risk of it being called in - dated run down bars - poor commercial capabilities - limited player investment - no food for players after training - small limited back room staff e.g. limited performance analysis, nutritionist, coaching - Limited and small academy with no reserve team - Overnight stays pre away matches by exception - manual ticketing - poor pitch and pitch drainage - averaged low to mid table league 2 side - limited manual advert - poor communication Post Wael - Debt cleared and converted to equity with ongoing costs committed to be covered - no external debt - no risk of administration - modern updated bars - own our own training ground which is being developed to suit our needs - one of the best pitches in the lower leagues - modern digital ticketing - modern updated shop - fantastic and much improved commercial capabilities with bigger revenues and deals - larger improved academy - reserve team - food after training - overnight stays for away games (norm pre COVID) - higher investment in players - new stands (tents admittedly) - improved and increased back room staff - improved scouting capabilities - digital advertising - average mid table league 1 team (this season exception) - improving communication These are just things off the top of my head rather than any real research. Wael has made mistakes for sure but to suggest he is taking us backwards or has delivered nothing is disingenuous in my opinion... Rant over..... Right lets dissect this shall we, given you’ve clearly put a lot of time and effort into posting. First off I’m not playing any card, I could say you’re playing the Wael card, it’s a meaningless expression. Am I concerned? Yes. Which is why I post on here, like any other concerned Gashead would. Again, no agenda just a different opinion. I could accuse you of having a pro Wael agenda, but I won’t as I think trying to diminish opposing opinions by dismissing them as agendas is rather underhanded. Pre Wael: 1) We have an unsustainable and larger debt than we did Pre Wael. I’ve attracted a fair bit of critics on here for some that say I work in estimations, but it seems a pretty big estimation in my eyes to assume Wael has a much greater financial capacity than Higgs and is able to take on debts larger. 2) Unless you weren’t aware, we had a training ground. The ownership situation has changed, but considering there was lots of talk of taking inspiration from Fleetwood ect, I’m rather disappointed by the end result so far. No agenda, just an observation. 3) The Wonga loan wasn’t as threatening as the debt we’ve accrued now, why? Because it was an amount that Higgs could have footed at a personal expense and if not that the supporters could have easily fundraised. Internal debts of 3 million a year raise the real possibility that if Wael walks away, the rug will be pulled from under us and there will be no way for supporters to raise an extortionate amount of money owed. 4) We made stadium improvements under Higgs. They weren’t run down just different. Everything needs a lick of paint every now and then. 5) True, not trying to dispute that. Higgs certainly has his flaws, I’m not defending him here. 6) I disagree quite frankly, there was as much if not more player investment from Higgs. Remember the budget that Buckle was able to wield? John Ward had a decent budget too and DC was backed even though we were a national league club and haemorrhaging money. Not seen an improvement from Wael in this regard. 7) I don’t know why that’s even a big deal, I’d bet plenty of other clubs don’t offer that either. 8) Sometimes small is better, we got back to back promotions with a smaller back room staff didn’t we? In fact this is one of the criticisms I have of Wael, that he allowed Managers to appoint excessively, which in turn made our budget spiral out of control with very little tangible gain. 9) Another Wael failure. The development side was found to be too expensive, so was then cut back and is now just scholars and first team players trying to get fitness. 10) To the best of my knowledge, the away match routine hasn’t been changed since Wael arrived. 11) Manual ticketing but cash turnstiles which was great. We’ve actually gone backwards in that regard, for ease of accessibility for supporters. 12) We had a rugby team playing on the pitch. The 2015 pitch without the rugby was actually a great improvement and contributing factor to our success. Had Wael also had the rugby playing on the pitch, it would have been a similar story. 13) Until we got back to back promotions that is, something not replicated by Wael. We’ve managed to bumble around mid table and then got relegated, so go figure. 14) Advertising is as limited now as it was then. One electronic billboard in Cabot Circus was just a PR exercise, go into town and you’ll see plenty of City adverts around the place. 15) Communication under Higgs was better than it is now. He had monthly updates, circulated to every supporter via programs or the internet. I’m not going to go through your post-Wael claims, as they seem to be the flip side of topics I’ve already covered. Laughable that you’ve included the family stand and south west stand as a pro, we had the south west stand under Higgs and the family stand, well that’s just an embarrassment. Some of the things you’ve come up with are clutching at straws and again don’t really impact on the running of the club. Just a lick of paint here or there, or getting with the times a bit. Things I’m sure would’ve happened under the Dunfords or Higgs, because despite how they’ve been tarnished, they did want to make improvements to the club too. Not trying to be disingenuous, Am actually just expressing my opinion. Do hate how people throw about words like disingenuous and agenda, then come up with their own set of claims with flaws and irregularities included in them.
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 11, 2021 14:04:57 GMT
I suggest you look at the reaction of his former teammates to get an indication of the poor treatment that took place. If he wasnt an ex-player no one would give a jot. As for his former team mates, they have all gone as well. Football changes quickly, as does the personnel. Getting the sack is one thing, being treated badly is something else, and you dont know how he has been treated. If he wasn’t someone who’s contributed a lot to the club, no-one would give a jot. See your contradiction there?
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Post by tommym9 on Jun 11, 2021 17:24:19 GMT
I’ve been trying my hardest not to get involved in this thread as I just get wound up by it all.... the playing of a ‘concerned’ gas head card by spouting ‘facts’ which are not facts but assumptions or subjective views that align with a particular agenda view..... but at the risk of being called a rose tinter and happy clapper this is what I believe Wael has done that should be praised... Pre Wael - Unsustainable debt (yes it was lower than what was accrued since but the directors openly said they could not afford it) - No training ground - High cost loan and external debt - real risk of it being called in - dated run down bars - poor commercial capabilities - limited player investment - no food for players after training - small limited back room staff e.g. limited performance analysis, nutritionist, coaching - Limited and small academy with no reserve team - Overnight stays pre away matches by exception - manual ticketing - poor pitch and pitch drainage - averaged low to mid table league 2 side - limited manual advert - poor communication Post Wael - Debt cleared and converted to equity with ongoing costs committed to be covered - no external debt - no risk of administration - modern updated bars - own our own training ground which is being developed to suit our needs - one of the best pitches in the lower leagues - modern digital ticketing - modern updated shop - fantastic and much improved commercial capabilities with bigger revenues and deals - larger improved academy - reserve team - food after training - overnight stays for away games (norm pre COVID) - higher investment in players - new stands (tents admittedly) - improved and increased back room staff - improved scouting capabilities - digital advertising - average mid table league 1 team (this season exception) - improving communication These are just things off the top of my head rather than any real research. Wael has made mistakes for sure but to suggest he is taking us backwards or has delivered nothing is disingenuous in my opinion... Rant over..... Right lets dissect this shall we, given you’ve clearly put a lot of time and effort into posting. First off I’m not playing any card, I could say you’re playing the Wael card, it’s a meaningless expression. Am I concerned? Yes. Which is why I post on here, like any other concerned Gashead would. Again, no agenda just a different opinion. I could accuse you of having a pro Wael agenda, but I won’t as I think trying to diminish opposing opinions by dismissing them as agendas is rather underhanded. Pre Wael: 1) We have an unsustainable and larger debt than we did Pre Wael. I’ve attracted a fair bit of critics on here for some that say I work in estimations, but it seems a pretty big estimation in my eyes to assume Wael has a much greater financial capacity than Higgs and is able to take on debts larger. 2) Unless you weren’t aware, we had a training ground. The ownership situation has changed, but considering there was lots of talk of taking inspiration from Fleetwood ect, I’m rather disappointed by the end result so far. No agenda, just an observation. 3) The Wonga loan wasn’t as threatening as the debt we’ve accrued now, why? Because it was an amount that Higgs could have footed at a personal expense and if not that the supporters could have easily fundraised. Internal debts of 3 million a year raise the real possibility that if Wael walks away, the rug will be pulled from under us and there will be no way for supporters to raise an extortionate amount of money owed. 4) We made stadium improvements under Higgs. They weren’t run down just different. Everything needs a lick of paint every now and then. 5) True, not trying to dispute that. Higgs certainly has his flaws, I’m not defending him here. 6) I disagree quite frankly, there was as much if not more player investment from Higgs. Remember the budget that Buckle was able to wield? John Ward had a decent budget too and DC was backed even though we were a national league club and haemorrhaging money. Not seen an improvement from Wael in this regard. 7) I don’t know why that’s even a big deal, I’d bet plenty of other clubs don’t offer that either. 8) Sometimes small is better, we got back to back promotions with a smaller back room staff didn’t we? In fact this is one of the criticisms I have of Wael, that he allowed Managers to appoint excessively, which in turn made our budget spiral out of control with very little tangible gain. 9) Another Wael failure. The development side was found to be too expensive, so was then cut back and is now just scholars and first team players trying to get fitness. 10) To the best of my knowledge, the away match routine hasn’t been changed since Wael arrived. 11) Manual ticketing but cash turnstiles which was great. We’ve actually gone backwards in that regard, for ease of accessibility for supporters. 12) We had a rugby team playing on the pitch. The 2015 pitch without the rugby was actually a great improvement and contributing factor to our success. Had Wael also had the rugby playing on the pitch, it would have been a similar story. 13) Until we got back to back promotions that is, something not replicated by Wael. We’ve managed to bumble around mid table and then got relegated, so go figure. 14) Advertising is as limited now as it was then. One electronic billboard in Cabot Circus was just a PR exercise, go into town and you’ll see plenty of City adverts around the place. 15) Communication under Higgs was better than it is now. He had monthly updates, circulated to every supporter via programs or the internet. I’m not going to go through your post-Wael claims, as they seem to be the flip side of topics I’ve already covered. Laughable that you’ve included the family stand and south west stand as a pro, we had the south west stand under Higgs and the family stand, well that’s just an embarrassment. Some of the things you’ve come up with are clutching at straws and again don’t really impact on the running of the club. Just a lick of paint here or there, or getting with the times a bit. Things I’m sure would’ve happened under the Dunfords or Higgs, because despite how they’ve been tarnished, they did want to make improvements to the club too. Not trying to be disingenuous, Am actually just expressing my opinion. Do hate how people throw about words like disingenuous and agenda, then come up with their own set of claims with flaws and irregularities included in them. RE: The wonga loan. If Higgs could have covered it easily, why take out a high interest loan in the first place? Could have done a directors loan and saved the club thousands in interest. Also if you think crowdfunding over a million pounds is easy then I'd love to know your secrets!
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 11, 2021 18:16:44 GMT
Right lets dissect this shall we, given you’ve clearly put a lot of time and effort into posting. First off I’m not playing any card, I could say you’re playing the Wael card, it’s a meaningless expression. Am I concerned? Yes. Which is why I post on here, like any other concerned Gashead would. Again, no agenda just a different opinion. I could accuse you of having a pro Wael agenda, but I won’t as I think trying to diminish opposing opinions by dismissing them as agendas is rather underhanded. Pre Wael: 1) We have an unsustainable and larger debt than we did Pre Wael. I’ve attracted a fair bit of critics on here for some that say I work in estimations, but it seems a pretty big estimation in my eyes to assume Wael has a much greater financial capacity than Higgs and is able to take on debts larger. 2) Unless you weren’t aware, we had a training ground. The ownership situation has changed, but considering there was lots of talk of taking inspiration from Fleetwood ect, I’m rather disappointed by the end result so far. No agenda, just an observation. 3) The Wonga loan wasn’t as threatening as the debt we’ve accrued now, why? Because it was an amount that Higgs could have footed at a personal expense and if not that the supporters could have easily fundraised. Internal debts of 3 million a year raise the real possibility that if Wael walks away, the rug will be pulled from under us and there will be no way for supporters to raise an extortionate amount of money owed. 4) We made stadium improvements under Higgs. They weren’t run down just different. Everything needs a lick of paint every now and then. 5) True, not trying to dispute that. Higgs certainly has his flaws, I’m not defending him here. 6) I disagree quite frankly, there was as much if not more player investment from Higgs. Remember the budget that Buckle was able to wield? John Ward had a decent budget too and DC was backed even though we were a national league club and haemorrhaging money. Not seen an improvement from Wael in this regard. 7) I don’t know why that’s even a big deal, I’d bet plenty of other clubs don’t offer that either. 8) Sometimes small is better, we got back to back promotions with a smaller back room staff didn’t we? In fact this is one of the criticisms I have of Wael, that he allowed Managers to appoint excessively, which in turn made our budget spiral out of control with very little tangible gain. 9) Another Wael failure. The development side was found to be too expensive, so was then cut back and is now just scholars and first team players trying to get fitness. 10) To the best of my knowledge, the away match routine hasn’t been changed since Wael arrived. 11) Manual ticketing but cash turnstiles which was great. We’ve actually gone backwards in that regard, for ease of accessibility for supporters. 12) We had a rugby team playing on the pitch. The 2015 pitch without the rugby was actually a great improvement and contributing factor to our success. Had Wael also had the rugby playing on the pitch, it would have been a similar story. 13) Until we got back to back promotions that is, something not replicated by Wael. We’ve managed to bumble around mid table and then got relegated, so go figure. 14) Advertising is as limited now as it was then. One electronic billboard in Cabot Circus was just a PR exercise, go into town and you’ll see plenty of City adverts around the place. 15) Communication under Higgs was better than it is now. He had monthly updates, circulated to every supporter via programs or the internet. I’m not going to go through your post-Wael claims, as they seem to be the flip side of topics I’ve already covered. Laughable that you’ve included the family stand and south west stand as a pro, we had the south west stand under Higgs and the family stand, well that’s just an embarrassment. Some of the things you’ve come up with are clutching at straws and again don’t really impact on the running of the club. Just a lick of paint here or there, or getting with the times a bit. Things I’m sure would’ve happened under the Dunfords or Higgs, because despite how they’ve been tarnished, they did want to make improvements to the club too. Not trying to be disingenuous, Am actually just expressing my opinion. Do hate how people throw about words like disingenuous and agenda, then come up with their own set of claims with flaws and irregularities included in them. RE: The wonga loan. If Higgs could have covered it easily, why take out a high interest loan in the first place? Could have done a directors loan and saved the club thousands in interest. Also if you think crowdfunding over a million pounds is easy then I'd love to know your secrets! I’m referring to a if the sh** hit the fan scenario, which was what the poster above was referring to about Wael’s financial investment. It wouldn’t be easy but doable, if the future of the club was at stake.
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Post by gulfofaden on Jun 11, 2021 18:21:06 GMT
would you be happier to carry on as we are? Going nowhere, we’ve been absolutely sh**e for four years now, bar the the short period under GC. I think it’s what we need. So what if he’s bringing his people across. It’s not even a gamble, it’s got to happen. Name a single other organisation in the world, sporting or otherwise, that have allowed second tier management to appoint and remove board members. When you realise there are none. Have a think about why that might be. That’s a false analogy. It’s much more like a musician telling their record label they don’t like their producer and mixer and they want new one. Controlling directors control businesses, and the decision rested with Wael, not Joey Barton.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 11, 2021 19:10:25 GMT
You don't need a transfer window to give a squad of players the "feel good" factor, it's utter nonsense to say we would have achieved promotion if Higgs had remained as our owner. That's not a pro Wael view it's just a simple fact.
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 11, 2021 21:27:48 GMT
You don't need a transfer window to give a squad of players the "feel good" factor, it's utter nonsense to say we would have achieved promotion if Higgs had remained as our owner. That's not a pro Wael view it's just a simple fact. Feel good factor is such an intangible thing. Yes the fan base had a feel good factor after it was claimed a Middle Eastern billionaire had invested in us and that he was committed to UWE, but the players? They just wanted to continue the momentum and a pay rise in the summer, the setup to achieve success was already there. Surely even the most pro Wael fan out there must concede that Higgs contributed more to that success than Wael? Have they forgotten that it was Higgs who paid for Rory Gaffney out of his own pocket?
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 11, 2021 21:45:52 GMT
You don't need a transfer window to give a squad of players the "feel good" factor, it's utter nonsense to say we would have achieved promotion if Higgs had remained as our owner. That's not a pro Wael view it's just a simple fact. Feel good factor is such an intangible thing. Yes the fan base had a feel good factor after it was claimed a Middle Eastern billionaire had invested in us and that he was committed to UWE, but the players? They just wanted to continue the momentum and a pay rise in the summer, the setup to achieve success was already there. Surely even the most pro Wael fan out there must concede that Higgs contributed more to that success than Wael? Have they forgotten that it was Higgs who paid for Rory Gaffney out of his own pocket?You're a muppet if you didn't feel the good factore didn't rub off on the whole club including the players. Where's you proof that was the case as I was told the ALQ's paid for Gaffney before the takeover went though, there does seem some logic in that suggest as how could Higgs afford to pay a transfer fee when wonga were chasing him for repayment of their loan.
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Post by BrightonGas on Jun 11, 2021 21:48:17 GMT
You don't need a transfer window to give a squad of players the "feel good" factor, it's utter nonsense to say we would have achieved promotion if Higgs had remained as our owner. That's not a pro Wael view it's just a simple fact. Feel good factor is such an intangible thing. Yes the fan base had a feel good factor after it was claimed a Middle Eastern billionaire had invested in us and that he was committed to UWE, but the players? They just wanted to continue the momentum and a pay rise in the summer, the setup to achieve success was already there. Surely even the most pro Wael fan out there must concede that Higgs contributed more to that success than Wael? Have they forgotten that it was Higgs who paid for Rory Gaffney out of his own pocket? FAO Mods....make it stop!
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Post by yattongas on Jun 11, 2021 22:22:18 GMT
You don't need a transfer window to give a squad of players the "feel good" factor, it's utter nonsense to say we would have achieved promotion if Higgs had remained as our owner. That's not a pro Wael view it's just a simple fact. Feel good factor is such an intangible thing. Yes the fan base had a feel good factor after it was claimed a Middle Eastern billionaire had invested in us and that he was committed to UWE, but the players? They just wanted to continue the momentum and a pay rise in the summer, the setup to achieve success was already there. Surely even the most pro Wael fan out there must concede that Higgs contributed more to that success than Wael? Have they forgotten that it was Higgs who paid for Rory Gaffney out of his own pocket? Fair play Harry , you’re an A grade WUM 😂👍
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 11, 2021 22:43:16 GMT
The same as when any manager leaves or gets sacked! Can you tell me the last manager we had, that did exactly the same, as the one previous? I cannot remember, ever, in the history of the club, when directors have been appointed to or removed from the board or their job roles redefined on the say so of the manager. Can you tell me the last manager we had that did that? I don't think there is one. Can you tell me any club who has done that? Ollie bought shares in Grimsby but didn't get a seat on the board nor the ability to put his mates in place and oust others. I can’t remember a time like that either. These are were my concerns come from, the way Wael is so easily swayed is not only unconventional but potentially harmful for the club long term. Some of Barton’s associates like a certain ex agent, look well dodgy and personally not people I’d want anywhere near the club.
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 11, 2021 22:47:07 GMT
There was a bloke a while back on the forums that said, Wael and the board turned down credible proposals for a stadium on a good piece of land in Bristol. It was literally all ready to go and perfect for the club to build and move into. The alternative for Wael? Well there appears to be no alternative, I haven’t heard progress on the FM for months and if you listen to certain people, they’ll tell you there won’t be any. If that doesn’t concern people, I don’t know what does.
And before people comment where’s the proof, the guy in question was a genuine Gashead with a decent track record, so yes I am inclined to believe him.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 22:52:48 GMT
There was a bloke a while back on the forums that said, Wael and the board turned down credible proposals for a stadium on a good piece of land in Bristol. It was literally all ready to go and perfect for the club to build and move into. The alternative for Wael? Well there appears to be no alternative, I haven’t heard progress on the FM for months and if you listen to certain people, they’ll tell you there won’t be any. If that doesn’t concern people, I don’t know what does. And before people comment where’s the proof, the guy in question was a genuine Gashead with a decent track record, so yes I am inclined to believe him. pmsl... so you don't like the owners, I think we get that and you are concerned etc. Nothing else to be said really is there. Can we move on? Any more light hearted things you want to discuss?
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Post by yattongas on Jun 11, 2021 22:58:58 GMT
There was a bloke a while back on the forums that said, Wael and the board turned down credible proposals for a stadium on a good piece of land in Bristol. It was literally all ready to go and perfect for the club to build and move into. The alternative for Wael? Well there appears to be no alternative, I haven’t heard progress on the FM for months and if you listen to certain people, they’ll tell you there won’t be any. If that doesn’t concern people, I don’t know what does. And before people comment where’s the proof, the guy in question was a genuine Gashead with a decent track record, so yes I am inclined to believe him. How do you know Harry , you only joined on June the 7th ? 🤔
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 11, 2021 23:02:26 GMT
There was a bloke a while back on the forums that said, Wael and the board turned down credible proposals for a stadium on a good piece of land in Bristol. It was literally all ready to go and perfect for the club to build and move into. The alternative for Wael? Well there appears to be no alternative, I haven’t heard progress on the FM for months and if you listen to certain people, they’ll tell you there won’t be any. If that doesn’t concern people, I don’t know what does. And before people comment where’s the proof, the guy in question was a genuine Gashead with a decent track record, so yes I am inclined to believe him. How do you know Harry , you only joined on June the 7th ? 🤔 In case you haven’t noticed Yatton, there are two forums and you need not to be a member of either to read them.
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Post by yattongas on Jun 11, 2021 23:03:48 GMT
How do you know Harry , you only joined on June the 7th ? 🤔 In case you haven’t noticed Yatton, there are two forums and you need not to be a member of either to read them. So you’ve lied low until now and just decided to pipe up Harry ?
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Post by harrystokegas on Jun 11, 2021 23:04:32 GMT
In case you haven’t noticed Yatton, there are two forums and you need not to be a member of either to read them. So you’ve lied low until now and just decided to pipe up Harry ? Yes, although I had an account on the old forum.
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Post by yattongas on Jun 11, 2021 23:11:49 GMT
So you’ve lied low until now and just decided to pipe up Harry ? Yes, although I had an account on the old forum. Okey dokey 😂
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 12, 2021 6:27:38 GMT
There was a bloke a while back on the forums that said, Wael and the board turned down credible proposals for a stadium on a good piece of land in Bristol. It was literally all ready to go and perfect for the club to build and move into. The alternative for Wael? Well there appears to be no alternative, I haven’t heard progress on the FM for months and if you listen to certain people, they’ll tell you there won’t be any. If that doesn’t concern people, I don’t know what does. And before people comment where’s the proof, the guy in question was a genuine Gashead with a decent track record, so yes I am inclined to believe him. It didn't sound credibal to me, it just sounded a vision with no real financial backing?
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