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Post by oldie on Jul 14, 2021 13:26:08 GMT
I presume also that if he has children, they are not vaccinated against MMR, Smallpox, Polio and TB? You could simply ask me directly if you’re genuinely interested in my families vaccination history , but I’d find it rather strange I must admit Yes ok. I guess I am interested in the logic. If other vaccines are acceptable to you, then the question is why is the Covid vaccine not?
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 14, 2021 14:07:42 GMT
This is the worst kind of anti vaxxer. Not only refusing the vaccine resulting in more strain on the NHS, and ultimately d"eaths but also spreading their anti vax bollox everywhere. Such a passport is not unprecedented. Communist dictator Joseph Stalin used something similar, but I dont want to live in a Stalinist state, or Communist China, or North Korea. The applied psychology from the commies in The Centre for Behaviour Change within SAGE has worked a treat. "Papers Please"!
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Post by RD on Jul 14, 2021 14:41:01 GMT
This is the worst kind of anti vaxxer. Not only refusing the vaccine resulting in more strain on the NHS, and ultimately d"eaths but also spreading their anti vax bollox everywhere. Such a passport is not unprecedented. Communist dictator Joseph Stalin used something similar, but I dont want to live in a Stalinist state, or Communist China, or North Korea. The applied psychology from the commies in The Centre for Behaviour Change within SAGE has worked a treat. "Papers Please"! But if you go abroad to some countries, you have to be vaccinated prior to going? Ergo the crux of the matter is ultimately identical - those who own the establishment in question (be that their country [i.e. those countries abroad my point relates to], their pub, their live gig, their travel company etc. etc. etc.) have every right to make their own rules. And if those companies decide to only allow fully vaccinated people, by definition you will require some kind of proof; hence you will need some kind of vaccine passport. It has nothing to do with being a "Stalinist state".
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 14, 2021 14:53:44 GMT
That logic is flawed when you give a seconds thought to the environment they are in compared to the outside open air Mem. Falsenumber9 Your "logic" is "false" and flawed if you took perhaps more than a few second to think about it. 100% of the crew were double vaccinated, 10% to date caught covid FACT. Where did they catch the virus afloat or ashore, who knows?. Fans not only attend open stadiums but buses, offices, pubs, shop and restaurants. Oh the hokey cokey left leg in and shake it all about! Fact: some people still catch and die from covid even if double vaccinated, other will be hospitalised but won't die, others will suffer Long Covid. So a Mem crowd of 6000 fans could result in 10% catching covid so 600 people catching it! So non vaccinated deaths at 10% is 60 fans, vaccinated deaths lessens the risk to 6 fans. So until say another 3 months time when more people are vaccinated and the risk greatly lowered again life should get back together based on health not financial grounds. Covid will be with us forever so get used to it but not in the very short term. Wear a mask, that's logic Why "could" 10% of the attendance catch COVID based on the submarine figures, there's simply no comparison, ones a group of people living together 24/7 in a very confined space, the other are fans stood/sat outside in the open air for a coupe of hours having little contact with each other.
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Post by Quarters on Jul 14, 2021 15:26:19 GMT
Falsenumber9 Your "logic" is "false" and flawed if you took perhaps more than a few second to think about it. 100% of the crew were double vaccinated, 10% to date caught covid FACT. Where did they catch the virus afloat or ashore, who knows?. Fans not only attend open stadiums but buses, offices, pubs, shop and restaurants. Oh the hokey cokey left leg in and shake it all about! Fact: some people still catch and die from covid even if double vaccinated, other will be hospitalised but won't die, others will suffer Long Covid. So a Mem crowd of 6000 fans could result in 10% catching covid so 600 people catching it! So non vaccinated deaths at 10% is 60 fans, vaccinated deaths lessens the risk to 6 fans. So until say another 3 months time when more people are vaccinated and the risk greatly lowered again life should get back together based on health not financial grounds. Covid will be with us forever so get used to it but not in the very short term. Wear a mask, that's logic Why "could" 10% of the attendance catch COVID based on the submarine figures, there's simply no comparison, ones a group of people living together 24/7 in a very confined space, the other are fans stood/sat outside in the open air for a coupe of hours having little contact with each other. What has a submarine got to do with it, the ship in question is an Aircraft Carrier! And this highlights some of the issues with postings on this thread. Facts, rumours, scare mongering etc etc
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 14, 2021 15:28:47 GMT
Such a passport is not unprecedented. Communist dictator Joseph Stalin used something similar, but I dont want to live in a Stalinist state, or Communist China, or North Korea. The applied psychology from the commies in The Centre for Behaviour Change within SAGE has worked a treat. "Papers Please"! But if you go abroad to some countries, you have to be vaccinated prior to going? Ergo the crux of the matter is ultimately identical - those who own the establishment in question (be that their country [i.e. those countries abroad my point relates to], their pub, their live gig, their travel company etc. etc. etc.) have every right to make their own rules. And if those companies decide to only allow fully vaccinated people, by definition you will require some kind of proof; hence you will need some kind of vaccine passport. It has nothing to do with being a "Stalinist state". In essence, these passports are a precursor to the social credit system that has already been implemented in China. Even if it is "their right" to implement them, it's still discriminatory and is the right of those who refuse to comply with this tyranny to decide to boycott places, which I suspect many will do.
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Post by gassince1957 on Jul 14, 2021 15:33:54 GMT
Falsenumber9 Your "logic" is "false" and flawed if you took perhaps more than a few second to think about it. 100% of the crew were double vaccinated, 10% to date caught covid FACT. Where did they catch the virus afloat or ashore, who knows?. Fans not only attend open stadiums but buses, offices, pubs, shop and restaurants. Oh the hokey cokey left leg in and shake it all about! Fact: some people still catch and die from covid even if double vaccinated, other will be hospitalised but won't die, others will suffer Long Covid. So a Mem crowd of 6000 fans could result in 10% catching covid so 600 people catching it! So non vaccinated deaths at 10% is 60 fans, vaccinated deaths lessens the risk to 6 fans. So until say another 3 months time when more people are vaccinated and the risk greatly lowered again life should get back together based on health not financial grounds. Covid will be with us forever so get used to it but not in the very short term. Wear a mask, that's logic Why "could" 10% of the attendance catch COVID based on the submarine figures, there's simply no comparison, ones a group of people living together 24/7 in a very confined space, the other are fans stood/sat outside in the open air for a coupe of hours having little contact with each other. Blimey, at 60 deaths per game (assuming 26 games including cup games), we'll be 1,560 supporters down by the end of the season. The better news is that City would be 5,000 down. Joking of course. If people feel vulnerable just don't come to matches for a while. But both sides of the mask or no mask argument need to respect the other sides view. I choose NOT to wear a mask but will carry a snood in my pocket to games and if the person next to me is really bothered by it I'll put it on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2021 15:34:58 GMT
But if you go abroad to some countries, you have to be vaccinated prior to going? Ergo the crux of the matter is ultimately identical - those who own the establishment in question (be that their country [i.e. those countries abroad my point relates to], their pub, their live gig, their travel company etc. etc. etc.) have every right to make their own rules. And if those companies decide to only allow fully vaccinated people, by definition you will require some kind of proof; hence you will need some kind of vaccine passport. It has nothing to do with being a "Stalinist state". In essence, these passports are a precursor to the social credit system that has already been implemented in China. Even if it is "their right" to implement them, it's still discriminatory and is the right of those who refuse to comply with this tyranny to decide to boycott places, which I suspect many will do. Where did you here they are a pre cursor to something else?
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Post by poorblue on Jul 14, 2021 15:57:47 GMT
In Boris and Javid we trust. Today's statement from the government trying to keep us all safe and back at work.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson said that it is "vital" that the country "proceeds with caution", warning that the "pandemic is not over".
Read More: What is staying and what is going after Freedom Day in England on July 19? COMMON SENSE BY SOME
Health Secretary Sajid Javid said that it is "expected and recommended" that people should wear face coverings, unless exempt, in "enclosed spaces", in crowded public places and on public transport. The question is will the Mem be a crowded space if the anti vaxers keep the common sensors away? The club loses, the fans lose ' we all lose. Keep the faith the Club will bring common sense to attendence so we all can attend without dogma, fear and rage dominating. UTG
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 14, 2021 16:21:14 GMT
In essence, these passports are a precursor to the social credit system that has already been implemented in China. Even if it is "their right" to implement them, it's still discriminatory and is the right of those who refuse to comply with this tyranny to decide to boycott places, which I suspect many will do. Where did you here they are a pre cursor to something else? The similarities with the social credit system are clear and obvious.
Also, Jim Killock, the Executive Director of the Open Rights Group (ORG), said: “Vaccine passports have the potential to be extremely discriminatory and invasive of personal privacy. They could be used as an excuse for ID Cards through the backdoor. And the supposed benefits may be limited and temporary.
“It is right that the Government proceed with caution; it must ensure that there is public consultation and that it interrogates the benefits and the downsides. It could be a very concerning path to take.”
Lord Sumption, the former Supreme Court Judge, has previously stated: "We have the “authentic ingredients of a totalitarian society”...“marks a move to a more authoritarian model of politics which will outlast the present crisis...“The government has discovered the power of public fear to let it get its way. It will not forget.”
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Post by lastminutewinner on Jul 14, 2021 17:11:29 GMT
In Boris and Javid we trust. Today's statement from the government trying to keep us all safe and back at work. Prime Minister Boris Johnson said that it is "vital" that the country "proceeds with caution", warning that the "pandemic is not over". Read More: What is staying and what is going after Freedom Day in England on July 19? COMMON SENSE BY SOMEHealth Secretary Sajid Javid said that it is "expected and recommended" that people should wear face coverings, unless exempt, in "enclosed spaces", in crowded public places and on public transport. The question is will the Mem be a crowded space if the anti vaxers keep the common sensors away? The club loses, the fans lose ' we all lose. Keep the faith the Club will bring common sense to attendence so we all can attend without dogma, fear and rage dominating. UTG I can't for the life of me see what the big issue is. Have a couple of injections on NHS and carry a card/app device with you to get into public places. Hardly asking people to go to war are they?
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Post by oldie on Jul 14, 2021 17:24:59 GMT
Where did you here they are a pre cursor to something else? The similarities with the social credit system are clear and obvious.
Also, Jim Killock, the Executive Director of the Open Rights Group (ORG), said: “Vaccine passports have the potential to be extremely discriminatory and invasive of personal privacy. They could be used as an excuse for ID Cards through the backdoor. And the supposed benefits may be limited and temporary.
“It is right that the Government proceed with caution; it must ensure that there is public consultation and that it interrogates the benefits and the downsides. It could be a very concerning path to take.”
Lord Suption, the former Supreme Court Judge, has previously stated: "We have the “authentic ingredients of a totalitarian society”...“marks a move to a more authoritarian model of politics which will outlast the present crisis...“The government has discovered the power of public fear to let it get its way. It will not forget.” I think it is right that we need to be very alert to this, but its not a reason to not be compliant at this point. So we need the voices to raise this issue, but do the right thing in tge interim, and delete this from the statute book at the earliest opportunity.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 14, 2021 17:46:33 GMT
The similarities with the social credit system are clear and obvious.
Also, Jim Killock, the Executive Director of the Open Rights Group (ORG), said: “Vaccine passports have the potential to be extremely discriminatory and invasive of personal privacy. They could be used as an excuse for ID Cards through the backdoor. And the supposed benefits may be limited and temporary.
“It is right that the Government proceed with caution; it must ensure that there is public consultation and that it interrogates the benefits and the downsides. It could be a very concerning path to take.”
Lord Suption, the former Supreme Court Judge, has previously stated: "We have the “authentic ingredients of a totalitarian society”...“marks a move to a more authoritarian model of politics which will outlast the present crisis...“The government has discovered the power of public fear to let it get its way. It will not forget.” I think it is right that we need to be very alert to this, but its not a reason to not be compliant at this point. So we need the voices to raise this issue, but do the right thing in tge interim, and delete this from the statute book at the earliest opportunity. A £250,000 contract was awarded to American IT firm Entrust, who have previously been involved in producing national ID Cards in Albania, Ghana and Malaysia. A blog post on the company’s website said vaccine passports could be used to “consider a national ID strategy” and “become part of the infrastructure of the new normal”.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2021 17:52:37 GMT
Where did you here they are a pre cursor to something else? The similarities with the social credit system are clear and obvious.
Also, Jim Killock, the Executive Director of the Open Rights Group (ORG), said: “Vaccine passports have the potential to be extremely discriminatory and invasive of personal privacy. They could be used as an excuse for ID Cards through the backdoor. And the supposed benefits may be limited and temporary.
“It is right that the Government proceed with caution; it must ensure that there is public consultation and that it interrogates the benefits and the downsides. It could be a very concerning path to take.”
Lord Suption, the former Supreme Court Judge, has previously stated: "We have the “authentic ingredients of a totalitarian society”...“marks a move to a more authoritarian model of politics which will outlast the present crisis...“The government has discovered the power of public fear to let it get its way. It will not forget.” Ahhhh I see! Well the Americans won’t need this system as they have been tracking people that have passed through Denver airport for years. Good way of getting the people that haven’t travelled I suppose. I’m all seriousness Pirate the government already know everything about you. Financial position, health records, housing status and you already have this thing that lets you travel called a passport. Maybe I am missing something obvious but I just don’t buy into all this stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2021 18:00:01 GMT
The process for reporting a negative test is pathetic anyway. You take a test at home and go to the gov website and register your results….I can’t imagine that anyone would lie 😂
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 14, 2021 18:13:43 GMT
The similarities with the social credit system are clear and obvious.
Also, Jim Killock, the Executive Director of the Open Rights Group (ORG), said: “Vaccine passports have the potential to be extremely discriminatory and invasive of personal privacy. They could be used as an excuse for ID Cards through the backdoor. And the supposed benefits may be limited and temporary.
“It is right that the Government proceed with caution; it must ensure that there is public consultation and that it interrogates the benefits and the downsides. It could be a very concerning path to take.”
Lord Suption, the former Supreme Court Judge, has previously stated: "We have the “authentic ingredients of a totalitarian society”...“marks a move to a more authoritarian model of politics which will outlast the present crisis...“The government has discovered the power of public fear to let it get its way. It will not forget.”
Ahhhh I see! Well the Americans won’t need this system as they have been tracking people that have passed through Denver airport for years. Good way of getting the people that haven’t travelled I suppose. I’m all seriousness Pirate the government already know everything about you. Financial position, health records, housing status and you already have this thing that lets you travel called a passport. Maybe I am missing something obvious but I just don’t buy into all this stuff. You might not give a sh** about rights or the creep into a totalitarian society, but some of us do. Attachment Deleted
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Post by gasheadbatesy on Jul 14, 2021 18:19:51 GMT
The few I know who aren't having it believe it hasn't been tested enough. Really does make you P?!s yourself doesn't it - as not only have ALL testing trials been fully undertaken, it's now been "tested" on 100s of millions of people worldwide. You really couldn't make it up. Results still pending. I’m not anti vac. Each to there own. Wrong to restrict people from events and venues because they are not comfortable with a possible quick fix un known fully chemical into your body. Could be the millennium bug again, could be catastrophic in years to come. No one knows. No one should be forced to have it, no one should have too prove they had it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2021 18:38:20 GMT
Ahhhh I see! Well the Americans won’t need this system as they have been tracking people that have passed through Denver airport for years. Good way of getting the people that haven’t travelled I suppose. I’m all seriousness Pirate the government already know everything about you. Financial position, health records, housing status and you already have this thing that lets you travel called a passport. Maybe I am missing something obvious but I just don’t buy into all this stuff. You might not give a sh** about rights or the creep into a totalitarian society, but some of us do. View Attachment I didn’t say I don’t give a sh**. I said I don’t buy into conspiracy theories. The internet is awash with boll0x as is the media.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jul 14, 2021 18:42:54 GMT
The thing that makes me chuckle a bit is that people are against the vax passport system frightened that they are giving away too much information to the state whilst writing it from a smartphone or computer that would enable GCHQ to land a drone on your head if they so wished. The amount of information the government actually have on you probably would want to make you flush your phone down the toilet straight away.
Personally I want to go back to as normal life as possible and have no issue proving having the vax to go into places.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2021 18:45:13 GMT
Really does make you P?!s yourself doesn't it - as not only have ALL testing trials been fully undertaken, it's now been "tested" on 100s of millions of people worldwide. You really couldn't make it up. Results still pending. I’m not anti vac. Each to there own. Wrong to restrict people from events and venues because they are not comfortable with a possible quick fix un known fully chemical into your body. Could be the millennium bug again, could be catastrophic in years to come. No one knows. No one should be forced to have it, no one should have too prove they had it. Ah the millennium bug! That brings back happy memories. Spent six months at a large chemical plant poring through technical drawings, computer data, control systems etc etc etc. Our instructions were to carry out risk analysis etc etc and plan how we would restart the plant on New year's Day after it had been subject to a controlled shutdown on New year's Eve. Our team arrived on site early on New year's Day and we commenced restarting the plant system by system. After eight hours we had the entire plant up and running. And what problems had the millennium bug caused? Sweet f**k all! And what did the non bug predicted by so called experts cost industry etc? We will never know! The experts all disappeared under stones. And where are those experts now? They have obviously reappeared and are the ones spreading the lies about the dangers of the covid vaccine!
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