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Post by gashead1981 on Jul 14, 2021 21:41:42 GMT
The thing that makes me chuckle a bit is that people are against the vax passport system frightened that they are giving away too much information to the state whilst writing it from a smartphone or computer that would enable GCHQ to land a drone on your head if they so wished. The amount of information the government actually have on you probably would want to make you flush your phone down the toilet straight away. Personally I want to go back to as normal life as possible and have no issue proving having the vax to go into places. The thing that makes me chuckle is how some people can be so gullible and subservient to tyrannical policies. I don’t see how having a vax and proof thereof is gullible or what’s tyrannical about it. The same way you need a government processed licence to drive a car, travel, hold a firearm or even a fishing rod, it’s merely a record of who you are and what you have. If that unlocks the gates to the Mem for me to watch rovers and go to Silverstone with a mask on then bring it on.
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Post by purdownpoacher1 on Jul 14, 2021 21:43:11 GMT
100 per cent agree pirate , lemmings springs to mind ! 💙
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 14, 2021 21:51:22 GMT
Do you have any proof? When it was discussed on here, those were not the responses at all. That seems quite the extraordinary and convenient reply to an idea that was already much publicised and discussed. I'm assuming 2020 is a typo btw, or are you claiming that after 1 week of the 1st lockdown in 2020 you predicted that not only vaccines would emerge, but vaccine passports in football stadiums? If it wasn't a typo, again - evidence please. No evidence that I can provide for the conversations I had with several friends and family. Back in April 2020, SchengenVisaInfo.com reported that a vaccine would for sure become mandatory for those wishing to travel throughout the Schengen Area once it was approved and available. Obvious to anyone doing any critical thinking that we would follow suit and then see vaccine passports inevitably introduced (despite denials by Bojo and ministers Gove And Zahawi et al). The UK isn't in Schengen.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jul 14, 2021 21:51:24 GMT
I cant understand how an app is the last straw for some people who will simply outright refuse to use it to enter a place they were quite happy to go to before, where they used their credit card to enter, are recorded on cctv going in, out and probably whilst there, check in to their Facebook accounts and post on gaschat with their unique IP etc. But yeah, this app changes everything. Surveillance is nothing new really even if that was the point which it isn't. You show a pass. That's it.
There is a possibility that people will begin to avoid places if they don't guarantee vaccination checks. That's the other side of the coin, perhaps not now but maybe with new strains etc. The majority may very well decide they want the guarantee that the people around them are vaccinated. A little like how you expect your nurse to have had immunisations and be safe from HIV transmission. Interesting to see how it plays out.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 14, 2021 21:54:20 GMT
No evidence that I can provide for the conversations I had with several friends and family. Back in April 2020, SchengenVisaInfo.com reported that a vaccine would for sure become mandatory for those wishing to travel throughout the Schengen Area once it was approved and available. Obvious to anyone doing any critical thinking that we would follow suit and then see vaccine passports inevitably introduced (despite denials by Bojo and ministers Gove And Zahawi et al). The UK isn't in Schengen. Didn't say it was.
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Post by aghast on Jul 14, 2021 21:55:56 GMT
100 per cent agree pirate , lemmings springs to mind ! 💙 If I wear my mask and have my vaccinations and still catch a nasty dose of Covid, I like to think I can consider myself very unlucky, but pleased I did what I could to not spread it to others. If I don't wear a mask and refuse vaccinations and catch a nasty dose of Covid, I would be on very thin ice if I expected anyone except family and friends to feel any sympathy for me.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 14, 2021 21:58:29 GMT
The UK isn't in Schengen. Didn't say it was. Your example was movement within Schengen then you went on to say about the denials of UK politicians. That's quite a leap even if you believe the original piece.
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Post by Gassy on Jul 14, 2021 21:58:42 GMT
Do you have any proof? When it was discussed on here, those were not the responses at all. That seems quite the extraordinary and convenient reply to an idea that was already much publicised and discussed. I'm assuming 2020 is a typo btw, or are you claiming that after 1 week of the 1st lockdown in 2020 you predicted that not only vaccines would emerge, but vaccine passports in football stadiums? If it wasn't a typo, again - evidence please. No evidence that I can provide for the conversations I had with several friends and family. Back in April 2020, SchengenVisaInfo.com reported that a vaccine would for sure become mandatory for those wishing to travel throughout the Schengen Area once it was approved and available. Obvious to anyone doing any critical thinking that we would follow suit and then see vaccine passports inevitably introduced (despite denials by Bojo and ministers Gove And Zahawi et al). Convenient. Did they? Let's look at the report, shall we? It talked about taking a negative test within 2 weeks of arrival and, " The (EU) official also noted that once the COVID-19 vaccine is confirmed and available for all, visa applicants may also be required to be vaccinated in the future, in particular, if the virus remains active. While the requirement may seem that Schengen countries are going to extra lengths pushed by the Coronavirus pandemic, the official states that in the past there have been similar requirements imposed by some of the Schengen Member states, towards countries worst hit with the Swine Flu and the Ebola virus" Link.Doesn't sound like they reported vaccine passports would be there "for sure". I do agree though that if the EU did it, its exceptionally likely that we would follow. Hell, most of the world enforces this. The government have made so many claims and back tracked at this point, it's unreal. There really isn't any point in taking what they say seriously tbh. However it does seem a bit far fetched that you apparently told people that vaccine passports would become reality back in April 2020, when you've never posted about any of it (despite posting about Covid) on here? In addition to that, not only 1 month before you were down playing the virus' seriousness? And there are experts every day saying it's a huge concern. It's not as bad as people might be making out, but it's a huge concern. The biggest issue is when it spreads in the UK, for now it's nice and easy to sit back and say no problem. Depends who you want to listen to though, either someone doing an interview or the WHO, EU, UK Government, pharma industry etc. The WHO, an organisation that made Robert Mugabe a 'goodwill ambassador'. So is that a reason to ignore them and everyone else giving the same advice? The WHO are an organisation in bed with big pharma and once described by The Lancet as an institution that was "corrupt and on its last legs." There is always plenty of panic and fear mongering with these situations and lots of money to be made by the big pharmaceutical industrial complex. Seen it all before with the bird flu* of 2009. EDIT: *H1N1 Swine flu of 2009 even! Not only a month later you're predicting vaccine passports? Somethings not adding up there...
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 14, 2021 22:04:13 GMT
The thing that makes me chuckle is how some people can be so gullible and subservient to tyrannical policies. I don’t see how having a vax and proof thereof is gullible or what’s tyrannical about it. The same way you need a government processed licence to drive a car, travel, hold a firearm or even a fishing rod, it’s merely a record of who you are and what you have. If that unlocks the gates to the Mem for me to watch rovers and go to Silverstone with a mask on then bring it on. You aren't playing attention then. The passport could be used to “consider a national ID strategy” and “become part of the infrastructure of the new normal” says the company developing the vaccine passport. The combination of apps with sensitive health data and the subversion of everyday businesses and events into checkpoints could constitute the biggest expansion of the surveillance state ever seen in the UK. Thankfully We have a proud history of opposition to ID cards in this country and many will continue to do so.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jul 14, 2021 22:17:32 GMT
I don’t see how having a vax and proof thereof is gullible or what’s tyrannical about it. The same way you need a government processed licence to drive a car, travel, hold a firearm or even a fishing rod, it’s merely a record of who you are and what you have. If that unlocks the gates to the Mem for me to watch rovers and go to Silverstone with a mask on then bring it on. You aren't playing attention then. The passport could be used to “consider a national ID strategy” and “become part of the infrastructure of the new normal” says the company developing the vaccine passport. The combination of apps with sensitive health data and the subversion of everyday businesses and events into checkpoints could constitute the biggest expansion of the surveillance state ever seen in the UK. Thankfully We have a proud history of opposition to ID cards in this country and many will continue to do so. Next you'll need some some of ID card to travel, drive or even borrow books from the library. Whatever next
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pirate
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Posts: 19,355
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Post by pirate on Jul 14, 2021 22:44:15 GMT
No evidence that I can provide for the conversations I had with several friends and family. Back in April 2020, SchengenVisaInfo.com reported that a vaccine would for sure become mandatory for those wishing to travel throughout the Schengen Area once it was approved and available. Obvious to anyone doing any critical thinking that we would follow suit and then see vaccine passports inevitably introduced (despite denials by Bojo and ministers Gove And Zahawi et al). Convenient. Did they? Let's look at the report, shall we? It talked about taking a negative test within 2 weeks of arrival and, " The (EU) official also noted that once the COVID-19 vaccine is confirmed and available for all, visa applicants may also be required to be vaccinated in the future, in particular, if the virus remains active. While the requirement may seem that Schengen countries are going to extra lengths pushed by the Coronavirus pandemic, the official states that in the past there have been similar requirements imposed by some of the Schengen Member states, towards countries worst hit with the Swine Flu and the Ebola virus" Link.Doesn't sound like they reported vaccine passports would be there "for sure". I do agree though that if the EU did it, its exceptionally likely that we would follow. Hell, most of the world enforces this. The government have made so many claims and back tracked at this point, it's unreal. There really isn't any point in taking what they say seriously tbh. However it does seem a bit far fetched that you apparently told people that vaccine passports would become reality back in April 2020, when you've never posted about any of it (despite posting about Covid) on here? In addition to that, not only 1 month before you were down playing the virus' seriousness? The WHO are an organisation in bed with big pharma and once described by The Lancet as an institution that was "corrupt and on its last legs." There is always plenty of panic and fear mongering with these situations and lots of money to be made by the big pharmaceutical industrial complex. Seen it all before with the bird flu* of 2009. EDIT: *H1N1 Swine flu of 2009 even! Not only a month later you're predicting vaccine passports? Somethings not adding up there... I didn't say they reported vaccine passports would be there "for sure", I said vaccines would be mandatory "for sure" for those wanting to travel. It was my opinion that we would follow their lead and the vaccine passports would be introduced soon after. But at least you do agree though that if the EU did it, its exceptionally likely that we would follow.
I stand by the "panic and fear mongering with these situations and lots of money to be made by the big pharmaceutical industrial complex" quote. The b ehaviour change psychologists within SAGE admitted their fear mongering in their own documents. The swine flu vaccine rollout of 2009 was a disaster and many are still suffering the consequences now. Attachment Deleted
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Post by gashead1981 on Jul 14, 2021 22:47:26 GMT
I don’t see how having a vax and proof thereof is gullible or what’s tyrannical about it. The same way you need a government processed licence to drive a car, travel, hold a firearm or even a fishing rod, it’s merely a record of who you are and what you have. If that unlocks the gates to the Mem for me to watch rovers and go to Silverstone with a mask on then bring it on. You aren't playing attention then. The passport could be used to “consider a national ID strategy” and “become part of the infrastructure of the new normal” says the company developing the vaccine passport. The combination of apps with sensitive health data and the subversion of everyday businesses and events into checkpoints could constitute the biggest expansion of the surveillance state ever seen in the UK. Thankfully We have a proud history of opposition to ID cards in this country and many will continue to do so. But Wes, it’s just another layer of what they already know about us. Huge companies like Facebook, Amazon, google, already know vast amount about you. You go and visit your mum and you’ll get an add pop up about the toothpaste she uses because it knows the triangulation of data your footprints have matched. ID cards and passports are virtually one in the same thing and with biometrics getting ever more reliable and able to hold vast amounts of data it’s something you’ll have to get used to to be able to buy a pint of milk.
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Post by Westy on Jul 14, 2021 23:27:07 GMT
You could simply ask me directly if you’re genuinely interested in my families vaccination history , but I’d find it rather strange I must admit Yes ok. I guess I am interested in the logic. If other vaccines are acceptable to you, then the question is why is the Covid vaccine not? I'm ex Navy, vaxxed up to the eyeballs over the years. Both kids vaxxed for all the usual, happily take any extracurricular jabs for holidays. Average time for clinical trials is 10-15 Yeats. MRNA vaccines have had zero success in 50 years. Think about anti-biotic resistance... Years of antibiotics have saved lives, but also heralded a time of resistance. I'd posit, on a whim, that yearly flu jabs have degraded the millennia old immune system. Taking shortcuts never gives decent results. So taking shortcuts with nature could be construed that all the old people taking yearly flu jabs has lead us to a weakened societal immune system ushering in resistant influenzas. Yes, it's been shown that healthy people having the jab survive covid.[be]it's been shown that healthy people with no jab survive covid It's also been shown that unhealthy people taking the jab die of covid and it's been shown that sick people without the jab die of covid[be] if you're gonna die of the flu, basically you're not in for a good ride if you get another... So extrapolating those results, sick people die of the flu (as they have always done) .. "oh, I know someone healthy who died of covid" = those are what's called "the exception that proves the rule". 25 year old women with anorexia and a cocaine habit their parents don't know about hardly constitutes reliable data... So basically... My immune system, and those of my ancestors, has survived innumerable plagues and disease, world wars and the such, to bring my DNA to where it is.. I'll continue to trust the science based on thousands of years of evolution And those who want a short cut can take the gamble.. Having a vaccine means you can still die of covid, pass it on and spread it. The gamble versus "do I want to compromise my immune system, potentially render pregnant mothers with thalidomide babies, and perhaps leave my children infertile because the trials aren't concluded yet, let alone have long term risk assessments" Versus "Take a jab against something that won't kill me, and will only be fatal to people who will die whether they've had vaccines or not" Seems like a no brainer to me. There's a reason scientists don't inject themselves during clinical trials. Some of us are following the science Some of us are the guinea pigs That said, I wish all good health for them and family. Covid isn't easy, but being skeptical of an unproven drug against a non-fatal disease doesn't mean you don't have competence of reading scientific literature. I've read what everything 12 months before it's appeared on BBC. Cutting edge, I'm there. I'll take the vaccine when it's proven to be safe and effective. So far, it hasn't met either of those.
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Post by axegas on Jul 15, 2021 0:53:28 GMT
Yes ok. I guess I am interested in the logic. If other vaccines are acceptable to you, then the question is why is the Covid vaccine not? I'm ex Navy, vaxxed up to the eyeballs over the years. Both kids vaxxed for all the usual, happily take any extracurricular jabs for holidays. Average time for clinical trials is 10-15 Yeats. MRNA vaccines have had zero success in 50 years. Think about anti-biotic resistance... Years of antibiotics have saved lives, but also heralded a time of resistance. I'd posit, on a whim, that yearly flu jabs have degraded the millennia old immune system. Taking shortcuts never gives decent results. So taking shortcuts with nature could be construed that all the old people taking yearly flu jabs has lead us to a weakened societal immune system ushering in resistant influenzas. Yes, it's been shown that healthy people having the jab survive covid.[be]it's been shown that healthy people with no jab survive covid It's also been shown that unhealthy people taking the jab die of covid and it's been shown that sick people without the jab die of covid[be] if you're gonna die of the flu, basically you're not in for a good ride if you get another... So extrapolating those results, sick people die of the flu (as they have always done) .. "oh, I know someone healthy who died of covid" = those are what's called "the exception that proves the rule". 25 year old women with anorexia and a cocaine habit their parents don't know about hardly constitutes reliable data... So basically... My immune system, and those of my ancestors, has survived innumerable plagues and disease, world wars and the such, to bring my DNA to where it is.. I'll continue to trust the science based on thousands of years of evolution And those who want a short cut can take the gamble.. Having a vaccine means you can still die of covid, pass it on and spread it. The gamble versus "do I want to compromise my immune system, potentially render pregnant mothers with thalidomide babies, and perhaps leave my children infertile because the trials aren't concluded yet, let alone have long term risk assessments" Versus "Take a jab against something that won't kill me, and will only be fatal to people who will die whether they've had vaccines or not" Seems like a no brainer to me. There's a reason scientists don't inject themselves during clinical trials. Some of us are following the science Some of us are the guinea pigs That said, I wish all good health for them and family. Covid isn't easy, but being skeptical of an unproven drug against a non-fatal disease doesn't mean you don't have competence of reading scientific literature. I've read what everything 12 months before it's appeared on BBC. Cutting edge, I'm there. I'll take the vaccine when it's proven to be safe and effective. So far, it hasn't met either of those. I mean if you’d been alive during the Black Plague outbreak or contracted it now, the likelihood is your immune system would not survive it without proper treatment. Anti biotic resistance is irrelevant in this instance, this is a virus not a bacteria. You say in your post that Covid is a non fatal disease, you mean the disease that has claimed the lives of 128k Brits? Very non fatal that. There are people I know who have lost loved ones during the pandemic and would find that label insulting. Yes, having a vaccine means you can still catch it and pass it on, but with a much lower risk of doing so than without it, which is the whole point of a vaccine in the first place. ”Taking short cuts never gives decent recents” Based on what? Many scientific creations have effectively been effective shortcuts, think Penicillin which was rolled out a mere few years after it was invented, to great effect. Thalidomide babies and infertile children part is just blatant scare tactics and disingenuous. You’ve just been banging on about how the science behind it all is unproven, then you come up with two blatantly unproven and false theories yourself to suit your own agenda. Again with the guinea pig thing which has come up a lot in this thread, I’ll happily be a ‘guinea pig’ if it means myself and people I know are safer. Anti-vaxxers throw this around like a dirty word as they like to think of themselves as gifted to see a higher truth that the majority cannot, but unfortunately that’s not the way life works. In most situations in life, the majority know best. The drug itself isn’t unproven, it’s been proven in a shorter time than usual, that’s the difference. It’s undergone many, many tests and had to meet many arduous thresholds to be approved for usage. The work behind it was sped up to suit the urgency, with more labs conducting research simultaneously than before and larger test groups. I’m not posting this because I want to change your mind or even believe I can. I understand that some people have deep rooted fear/suspicion of vaccines in the best of circumstances, let alone a vaccine that’s been rolled out in a shorter time than usual. I can understand the fear that might be caused by such a fast and unprecedented rollout. I only post this because I know a lot of people will be reading this thread and some of the claims you’ve made in your post can’t be left to go unanswered, at least in my opinion anyway.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 15, 2021 1:29:52 GMT
Any thoughts on the Army Psychological Warfare Unit '77th Brigade' Westy ?
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Post by RD on Jul 15, 2021 5:02:56 GMT
Really does make you P?!s yourself doesn't it - as not only have ALL testing trials been fully undertaken, it's now been "tested" on 100s of millions of people worldwide. You really couldn't make it up. Results still pending. I’m not anti vac. Each to there own. Wrong to restrict people from events and venues because they are not comfortable with a possible quick fix un known fully chemical into your body. Could be the millennium bug again, could be catastrophic in years to come. No one knows. No one should be forced to have it, no one should have too prove they had it. I mean, that is complete and utter nonsense. You'll claim its your opinion, but it's not. It's complete and utter garbage - if I said 1+1 is 3,its irrelevant that it's my opinion, I'm wrong, simple as that. Unknown fully chemical? Wrong. The millennium bug again? So... a computing bug?! That ironically was built up to be far worse than it was? What on earth.
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Post by RD on Jul 15, 2021 5:04:31 GMT
The thing that makes me chuckle a bit is that people are against the vax passport system frightened that they are giving away too much information to the state whilst writing it from a smartphone or computer that would enable GCHQ to land a drone on your head if they so wished. The amount of information the government actually have on you probably would want to make you flush your phone down the toilet straight away. Personally I want to go back to as normal life as possible and have no issue proving having the vax to go into places. The thing that makes me chuckle is how some people can be so gullible and subservient to tyrannical policies. You really are the worst kind. Genuine question - do you believe the earth is flat? I know for a fact you believe in chemtrails, so we already know your a conspiracy theorist. Bill Gates controlling us with the vaccine? 5G? Come on - if you've got the balls to post this stuff then have the balls to be open and honest with us about all the theories you believe.
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Post by RD on Jul 15, 2021 5:05:32 GMT
100 per cent agree pirate , lemmings springs to mind ! 💙 Ah yes, "sheeple". Dear oh dear.
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Post by RD on Jul 15, 2021 5:07:57 GMT
Any thoughts on the Army Psychological Warfare Unit '77th Brigade' Westy ?
Wait - what? Hahahahahahaha So a twitter bot is somehow proof of some random 77th brigade because you've posted a meme of them after the bot screenshot?!?! You do realise I could write a Twitter bot in an afternoon?
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 15, 2021 5:22:32 GMT
The thing that makes me chuckle is how some people can be so gullible and subservient to tyrannical policies. You really are the worst kind. Genuine question - do you believe the earth is flat? I know for a fact you believe in chemtrails, so we already know your a conspiracy theorist. Bill Gates controlling us with the vaccine? 5G? Come on - if you've got the balls to post this stuff then have the balls to be open and honest with us about all the theories you believe. I don't understand it. pirate seems a sensible bloke and knows his stuff Re football etc. I guess that doesn't correlate to other parts of life! I know a few of these conspiracists. They love it, they can turn anything into a conspiracy. It's good to be open minded but don't turn everything into a conspiracy dear god!
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