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Post by peterparker on Sept 5, 2021 11:25:24 GMT
Fine playing a 3 at the back, if we have players that are conducive and it's an effective tactic. But we definitely need a credible alternative. I didn't think it worked yesterday when Anderton came on for Nicholson (wtf!?) ...And Alfie is not a brilliant flank operator. JAB has to be quicker and more pro active in reverting to a back 4 when the 3 goes wrong or gets overrun. Nicholson was injured, but it was a negative/defensive substitution. Would Rodman have been a better choice?
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Post by phillistine on Sept 5, 2021 11:43:09 GMT
The ideal of a back three is that they are players with the confidence to bring the ball out and the ability to pass a ball accurately to wide players/midfield players with the odd 60 yard pass. We are struggling to get that balance right as in truth neither Kilgour or Harries are particularly good when in the wide areas. Because of this our wing backs are not able to do the attacking side of their roles which both are more able at but are having to concentrate more on covering up the inefficiencies of the centre backs. The gelling of this system is something that will take time with getting the midfield and wing backs involved quicker. The Kilgour/Taylor/Harries three may still not be right and maybe Hughes and Anderton may still prove to be the better combination with Taylor. I tend to agree with JB that Grant is more comfortable in the back 3 than in the midfield and maybe this will be the long term plan. not sure that i agree with all of this. On Tuesday night we played the ball out from the back and the distribution from Harries in particular was excellent. Yesterday both he and Alfie were just lumping it forward and indeed the evil post made mention in one of the articles that he and Alfie were working to instruction. i am not sure why we changed tactics but we did. My concern with Hughes in particular is that the defence sits deep to cover for his lack of pace whereas yesterday we were attacking with all 3 defenders on the half way line - we knew that we had the pace to counter a ball over the top. If you watch the Exeter game Hughes was caught out stretching for balls that a more mobile player would have been better able to deal with. I feel that the problem we have at the moment is that our wingbacks are both attackers who are having to defend as opposed to full backs having to attack. it does mean that when we are under the cosh - the balls are coming in from the side as we have wingers trying to defend and it looks like it. Until we have better defensive players at wing back then we surely must play 4 accross the back away from home. i watched the interview between Neville and Keane on Youtube and Keane admitted that he retired to early and could have played on until his late 30's if he had taken a sitting midfield role - exactly as i suspect that Whelan will do for us . That will enable Grant to play a more natural game and maybe he will be better employed as an old fashioned sweeper - or does that position no longer exist?
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Post by daniel300380 on Sept 5, 2021 11:56:58 GMT
although we kept a clean sheet and taylor was best player on pitch i still think playing 3 at the back teams get down the side of us most of crawley chances were created down the left or right we need to find a way of becoming more compacted It’s because we normally play attacking player’s as wing backs. So defensively we are going to suffer. Makes for open games. At Exeter, both sides had 19 shots each!
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Post by gashead1981 on Sept 5, 2021 12:31:51 GMT
One of the reasons a back three worked so well for us under Coughlan is because in front of them they were often well protected by Ollie Clarke and/or Abu Ogogo; the job of protecting this defence falls to Josh Grant, who IMO is neither tough tackling nor tenacious enough to do this role as effectively as players such as the aforementioned. I agree and to be honest I don’t rate Grant at all so far , doesn’t get involved enough for a central midfielder, he’s only had the odd good game in over a year with us but most of the time he’s below average , his best game for us was v Peterborough last season when he had Ogogo alongside him they were both excellent that night. He’s young which means he’s got time on his side but I don’t think he’ll ever be a midfield anchor man. That’s funny because for me, Grant is a bit of an unsung hero often does the dirty work no one else does, keeps it nice and simple when passing instead of trying to be a Hollywood baller.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 5, 2021 12:34:49 GMT
The ideal of a back three is that they are players with the confidence to bring the ball out and the ability to pass a ball accurately to wide players/midfield players with the odd 60 yard pass. We are struggling to get that balance right as in truth neither Kilgour or Harries are particularly good when in the wide areas. Because of this our wing backs are not able to do the attacking side of their roles which both are more able at but are having to concentrate more on covering up the inefficiencies of the centre backs. The gelling of this system is something that will take time with getting the midfield and wing backs involved quicker. The Kilgour/Taylor/Harries three may still not be right and maybe Hughes and Anderton may still prove to be the better combination with Taylor. I tend to agree with JB that Grant is more comfortable in the back 3 than in the midfield and maybe this will be the long term plan. How often have you seen Grant play for Rovers in the back 3 to come to that conclusion?
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Post by Russgas on Sept 5, 2021 13:32:35 GMT
I think playing a 3 as well the defenders need a good understanding and whereabouts of each other. Have a watch again of the nicholls missed header yesterday,we had four defenders back but they were all ball watching and not watching the man, which resulted in nicholls having a free header. Second half was the same with crawley runners not getting picked up. Plenty for JB to go over with the players in the match video on monday.
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Post by stevek192 on Sept 5, 2021 15:28:23 GMT
I have long thought that Grant plays the deep defensive midfield role more like a centre back than a central midfielder. JB has recently said that he sees Grants role long term as a central defender or full back.
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Post by gashead4ever on Sept 5, 2021 15:41:04 GMT
i like 3 at the back but it only works well with high Possession and you can get wing backs high up pitch and stay wide are problem is we only have about 45% Possession we need to keep the ball better and get the ball back quick as possible when we lose it
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Post by wilmslowgas on Sept 5, 2021 16:52:18 GMT
I don't like 352 because it requires a certain type of player which we don't have. For a start it demands mobility from the centre backs because they will inevitably be drawn out to the flanks. Kilgour, for one, hates it out there.
The system also requires outstanding wing backs that provide defensive cover and an attacking threat. Ours do not. In consequence, if the wing backs are caught upfield, the opposition can exploit either flank. It happens every game.
Incidentally, the team of GC did not play 352. His team was more 5311. His game plan was relatively simple: don't let the opposition score and try to nick one at the other end. Purists would,and did, hated his strategy. After all it only got us to 4th in L1.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 5, 2021 17:09:37 GMT
I have long thought that Grant plays the deep defensive midfield role more like a centre back than a central midfielder. JB has recently said that he sees Grants role long term as a central defender or full back. JB indicted Grant would in future be playing in defence following that interview, then promptly picked him in midfield for the following match and he even played him in that role in the cup game. So apart from JB's comments what makes you think he'd make a better CB than CM, there must surely be a reason Ryan Lowe moved him to CM?
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 5, 2021 17:13:31 GMT
Fine playing a 3 at the back, if we have players that are conducive and it's an effective tactic. But we definitely need a credible alternative. I didn't think it worked yesterday when Anderton came on for Nicholson (wtf!?) ...And Alfie is not a brilliant flank operator. JAB has to be quicker and more pro active in reverting to a back 4 when the 3 goes wrong or gets overrun. Nicholson was injured, but it was a negative/defensive substitution. Would Rodman have been a better choice? It was hardly a negative sub as we changed formation to 4-4-2 for a while, then reverted back to 5 at the back when that didn't seem to be working. Rodman couldn't replace Nicko as he's hardly a deep playing No 10, perhaps Pitman could have replaced him and we'd played 2 upfront but imagine the meltdown on here etc if he had and we'd then conceded a goal.
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Post by oliverhelmet on Sept 5, 2021 18:37:41 GMT
I have long thought that Grant plays the deep defensive midfield role more like a centre back than a central midfielder. JB has recently said that he sees Grants role long term as a central defender or full back. JB indicted Grant would in future be playing in defence following that interview, then promptly picked him in midfield for the following match and he even played him in that role in the cup game. So apart from JB's comments what makes you think he'd make a better CB than CM, there must surely be a reason Ryan Lowe moved him to CM? Grant was crap as a Centre Back for Plymouth,according to their fans.Seems like Ryan Lowe agreed with them.
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Post by chilly1883 on Sept 5, 2021 19:17:59 GMT
I don’t have a problem with 3 at the back and the majority of teams will play this formation this season it seems the in thing. If done properly it can be very effective. I think atm we are looking weak in the wider areas because the players we are playing in the wingback positions were not brought to the club to play there. I’m hopeful that the return of Clarke and Rodman will sure up these positions defensively Rodmans not a wing back? Never will be, he torn a new ass, playing that position against Exeter. If we’re controlling the game, then fine, but if we’re under the cosh, he’s not good enough defensively.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 5, 2021 19:20:39 GMT
I don’t have a problem with 3 at the back and the majority of teams will play this formation this season it seems the in thing. If done properly it can be very effective. I think atm we are looking weak in the wider areas because the players we are playing in the wingback positions were not brought to the club to play there. I’m hopeful that the return of Clarke and Rodman will sure up these positions defensively Rodmans not a wing back? Never will be, he torn a new ass, playing that position against Exeter. If we’re controlling the game, then fine, but if we’re under the cosh, he’s not good enough defensively. But who's better in the club, I doubt Anderson will be better defensively and Hoole's apparently only a RB? Not sure Rodman was actually at fault for any of the ground goals at Exeter?
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Post by chilly1883 on Sept 5, 2021 19:22:11 GMT
I thought the main difference between the teams yesterday was the passing out of defence, most of Crawleys balls forward found their men whilst a lot of ours were a bit erratic. I am sure that aspect of our game will improve with more time on the training ground & a settled side, can’t be easy when new players are being regularly introduced into the side at the moment. playing with a back 3 is great, as long as one of those 3, can play out from the back? Ours can’t at the moment, as they need to concentrate on defending first, which they haven’t done for 2 seasons.
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Post by chilly1883 on Sept 5, 2021 19:24:59 GMT
Rodmans not a wing back? Never will be, he torn a new ass, playing that position against Exeter. If we’re controlling the game, then fine, but if we’re under the cosh, he’s not good enough defensively. But who's better in the club, I doubt Anderson will be better defensively and Hoole's apparently only a RB? Not sure Rodman was actually at fault for any of the ground goals at Exeter? maybe not directly, but If he’d given caprice any more space, he’d might as well sat crossed legged on the line, and clapped him!
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Post by eastgas on Sept 5, 2021 19:34:32 GMT
I don’t have a problem with 3 at the back and the majority of teams will play this formation this season it seems the in thing. If done properly it can be very effective. I think atm we are looking weak in the wider areas because the players we are playing in the wingback positions were not brought to the club to play there. I’m hopeful that the return of Clarke and Rodman will sure up these positions defensively Rodmans not a wing back? Never will be, he torn a new ass, playing that position against Exeter. If we’re controlling the game, then fine, but if we’re under the cosh, he’s not good enough defensively. Rodman wouldn’t be my first choice to play there, I stated in a further post that I was surprised we never brought in a more defensive minded wing back, but atm I think Rodman is the most rounded player we have to play there. Maybe Hoole could do a job there if given a chance but we haven’t seen much of him in a attacking capacity so far so he would be an unknown
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Post by canberragas69 on Sept 5, 2021 19:37:23 GMT
IMO players at our level aren't good enough to play wing backs. we need an effective back 4 and a midfield that presses.
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Post by stevek192 on Sept 5, 2021 19:56:42 GMT
It is going to be interesting to see what develops in the coming weeks because there is no doubt in my mind that JB has put together a very good squad of players for League 2 and many of these players are still finding their feet and JB is looking for the best combination. As players find their true form there will be changes where certain players cement thir place in the team whilst some may depend on injuries to get a chance. As I see it Taylor, Nicholson,Andersen and Finley have pretty well claimed places in the side, The rest are up for grabs still.
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Post by stevek192 on Sept 5, 2021 20:03:14 GMT
Topper Gas maybe something as simple as best suited a midfield role at that time for the players around him. He was a very young player making early moves into the Football League and maybe similar to the position Martinez was in last season where despite being a centre back was played central midfield. When fit this season where will he be considered. Grant could be considered to have at least a bit more pace than the rest of our centre backs and I have the feeling that Whelan could well force himself into the holding midfield role.
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