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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 3, 2021 13:54:55 GMT
If running a football club was so easy how has Wael lost £20m+ doing it? As nobody has denied it was happening I assume it's true a dozen players were using chewing tobacco, if they were, what else were they doing seemingly completely unchecked? The Quarters is another farce where we've built a clubhouse but now need to virtually knock it down and start again. That's just two examples of how poorly we've been run. Didn't DC suggest we were decades behind the times? It could be JB's talking nonsense as a cover but surely he's explained to Wael/MS what the issues are and they can make their own decisions, the latter has seen the structure at Plymouth so must have some knowledge of how a successful L1 club should be run. Is this just not a planning permission game? There are things being asked for now that have been given a first 'Yes' by South Gloucestershire Council that if it had been included in the original application it would have been dismissed. That is just by impression and is not based on any facts. We seem to have spent an hell of a lot of money then just to get pp, not sure I've ever witnessed anybody else finishing a house etc just so they can get pp and start a rebuild. Given we never applied for pp ourselves I can't see why it would have been rejected, in fact it might have been easier before our players started using the fields as a toilet.
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Post by LJG on Oct 3, 2021 13:54:59 GMT
Reynolds was only dodgy in that he was convicted of money laundering later on. That had nothing to do with his time at Darlington. The problem at Darlington was it was run like his own vanity project. Splashing money he would run out of. Ditto Bury - Stewart Day ran it like he was trying to buy his way up the leagues nothing dodgy about him. Steve Dale, while seemingly a dick, was not dodgy. And what was dodgy at Chester? It was pretty much a carbon copy. Wage bill too high, tax unpaid to HMRC failed rescue package and administration. It helps if you know what you're talking about before you disagree with stuff. If anyone is interested this video on Darlington is absolutely fantastic: Might make you have a second thought that Reynolds wasn't dodgy. I don't deny Reynolds was dodgy and deluded. His failure to accurately represent his own wealth. The insane challenging of fans who criticised him on their own doorsteps. Sure those things are mental. But they're not the reason Darlington went out of business and there's no suggestion he did anything criminal in his ownership of them to make them go bust. That was down to his narcissism and out of control spending.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 3, 2021 14:04:27 GMT
If anyone is interested this video on Darlington is absolutely fantastic: Might make you have a second thought that Reynolds wasn't dodgy. I don't deny Reynolds was dodgy and deluded. His failure to accurately represent his own wealth. The insane challenging of fans who criticised him on their own doorsteps. Sure those things are mental. But they're not the reason Darlington went out of business and there's no suggestion he did anything criminal in his ownership of them to make them go bust. That was down to his narcissism and out of control spending. Perhaps if he wasn't such a dodgy character, one jailed for tax evasion, he might not have risked Darlington's future building a stadium they could never hope to maintain. It's hard to believe a previous stanch Wael supporter is now comparing his ownership of the club to the likes of Darlington, Chester and Bury's owners.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 3, 2021 14:06:47 GMT
What on earth are you talking about? Debts to HMRC is probably the most common cause of football clubs going into administration. You said Chester had a dodgy owner - what's your basis for saying that? What about Charlton Athletic and what's going on with them at the moment? Are they a small northern club with dodgy owners? I just gave a link to Chester's former owner? I've no idea what's going on at Charlton as I no longer follow L1 football, what's going on which is so bad, I thought like Swindon's, the fans all liked their new owners?
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Post by bridgwatergas on Oct 3, 2021 14:09:45 GMT
Why the need to call 2 of us out for having an opinion that many others had. I had an opinion about Garner being sacked but not many backed me on that. We have views that differ and I will stick to mine even if you feel the need to try and make us look stupid and you look the one who knows best. Sir I bow to your superior knowledge. Because at the time Barton had taken us into the relegation zone, blamed all and sundry but himself, slated the players (the ones who play in the league above us now remember), bad-mouthed the club in the press and had a criminal trial hanging over his head. It wasn't exactly hindsight at the time to know it would be an utterly stupid idea for this loudmouth, gobshite zero-achiever to have control of the club from top to bottom. And you say you're sticking to that opinion even though we're even worse off now because 0of that utterly stupid idea. Yes i stick to my opinion and it seems so does Wael. Tell me how well all these players in higher divisions are getting on as I certainly haven't been hearing of rave reviews of them and what a massive mistake we made letting them go. Still haven't answered why the need to call me out in particular as I was not the only one with this opinion. People like you are why people walk away from this forum as if we don't agree with your view we are wrong and clueless. And I was a Garner fan who could see what the plan was but got shot down by many who also said he should never manage again. I didnt feel the need to call any of them out and won't as I don't believe in trying to belittle others to make me feel the big man.
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Post by garythegas on Oct 3, 2021 14:23:30 GMT
I'd love to get another plumber but its up to the landlord which plumber he calls. Wael calls the shots now, Starnes was discredited after he appointed Tisdale, Widdrington is just doing a meaningless job until his contract ends. Oh how I wish the last 2 statements are true, but the 1'st one certainly is, Wael was taken in by JBs spiel we can only hope he has learnt his lesson and appoints a manager with no baggage, no massive ego and no great new plan to reinvent the wheel, just someone who knows what he's doing. But that’s the problem, Starnes is the plumber, he’s inept! So I’d leave it for a while, to drip 🤣
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Post by blueridge on Oct 3, 2021 14:24:22 GMT
Aha - secret knowledge, eh? My money is on the back room staff actually being Knights Templar, brought in by the new Grand Master to protect the Bloodline from the Illuminati and the New World Order . . . If running a football club was so easy how has Wael lost £20m+ doing it? As nobody has denied it was happening I assume it's true a dozen players were using chewing tobacco, if they were, what else were they doing seemingly completely unchecked? The Quarters is another farce where we've built a clubhouse but now need to virtually knock it down and start again. That's just two examples of how poorly we've been run. Didn't DC suggest we were decades behind the times? It could be JB's talking nonsense as a cover but surely he's explained to Wael/MS what the issues are and they can make their own decisions, the latter has seen the structure at Plymouth so must have some knowledge of how a successful L1 club should be run. The footings for the extensions were put in during the original build - there will be no need “to virtually knock it down and start again”.
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Post by garythegas on Oct 3, 2021 14:30:51 GMT
As regards the plumbers I have had to go on my mobile so I cant work out how to get the quote post to work. But lets all hope the drip does'nt get any worse and that my forecast of a flooded house is ott.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 3, 2021 14:45:16 GMT
If running a football club was so easy how has Wael lost £20m+ doing it? As nobody has denied it was happening I assume it's true a dozen players were using chewing tobacco, if they were, what else were they doing seemingly completely unchecked? The Quarters is another farce where we've built a clubhouse but now need to virtually knock it down and start again. That's just two examples of how poorly we've been run. Didn't DC suggest we were decades behind the times? It could be JB's talking nonsense as a cover but surely he's explained to Wael/MS what the issues are and they can make their own decisions, the latter has seen the structure at Plymouth so must have some knowledge of how a successful L1 club should be run. The footings for the extensions were put in during the original build - there will be no need “to virtually knock it down and start again”. At present it's T shaped, the new design is a square shape, so it's going to take a big rebuild as I assume at least the l part of the T will have to be knocked down and rebuilt, unless the present exterior walls can become internal walls? Regardless it personally seems poor planning to me.
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Post by womble on Oct 3, 2021 14:53:34 GMT
The footings for the extensions were put in during the original build - there will be no need “to virtually knock it down and start again”. At present it's T shaped, the new design is a square shape, so it's going to take a big rebuild as I assume at least the l part of the T will have to be knocked down and rebuilt, unless the present exterior walls can become internal walls? Regardless it personally seems poor planning to me. That’s precisely what is intended. Some of the at present exterior walls, will become interior ones. While doing this in two stages might not be regarded as ideal, it’s not a total rebuild.
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Post by LJG on Oct 3, 2021 15:00:12 GMT
I don't deny Reynolds was dodgy and deluded. His failure to accurately represent his own wealth. The insane challenging of fans who criticised him on their own doorsteps. Sure those things are mental. But they're not the reason Darlington went out of business and there's no suggestion he did anything criminal in his ownership of them to make them go bust. That was down to his narcissism and out of control spending. Perhaps if he wasn't such a dodgy character, one jailed for tax evasion, he might not have risked Darlington's future building a stadium they could never hope to maintain. It's hard to believe a previous stanch Wael supporter is now comparing his ownership of the club to the likes of Darlington, Chester and Bury's owners. Topper you really need to learn to read people's posts before automatically hitting the quote button to disagree with what they've said then bashing out some sh1te you've misunderstood from Google. The point was made that the best course of action for the club is to stabilise it as a good league one club with a good league one ground. I pointed out that failure to do that in whatever tier of the football pyramid is a principal reason for clubs failing. There are tens of examples. Even Wimbledon right before the MK move is a good example. You started talking all this nonsense about it only happens to small northern clubs with dodgy owners. (Bury's average attendance in 18/19 wasn't much below what Rovers is now by the way). I've said nothing about comparing Wael to Reynolds.
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Post by curlywurly on Oct 3, 2021 15:09:11 GMT
The footings for the extensions were put in during the original build - there will be no need “to virtually knock it down and start again”. At present it's T shaped, the new design is a square shape, so it's going to take a big rebuild as I assume at least the l part of the T will have to be knocked down and rebuilt, unless the present exterior walls can become internal walls? Regardless it personally seems poor planning to me. Nothing particularly difficult about the extension build. It is pretty obvious that the original planning permission was extant and Rovers utilised that to get on with the build. Extending to fill in the gaps in the T are the easiest way to get another ~70% floor space. I personally think this is sensible use of the planning system.
FWIW I'd rather the Mem be extended in this, incremental way.
Back to the main subject. Like many others, I was keen to give Joey a chance this season. However, 10 games was (and always has been) a decent yard-stick for how we will do. I'm sorry, but the football's been poor, tactically inept and - the clincher - results are poor. Without last season's complete capitulation, I would say carry on, but there is no sign to me that Joey will be able to turn this season around. I really fear that we could again face the trap door to the National League.
I hope Wael recognises that the crowd (even those who were previously supportive) have turned against Joey Barton and it would be better for all concerned to part company.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 3, 2021 15:33:56 GMT
Perhaps if he wasn't such a dodgy character, one jailed for tax evasion, he might not have risked Darlington's future building a stadium they could never hope to maintain. It's hard to believe a previous stanch Wael supporter is now comparing his ownership of the club to the likes of Darlington, Chester and Bury's owners. Topper you really need to learn to read people's posts before automatically hitting the quote button to disagree with what they've said then bashing out some sh1te you've misunderstood from Google. The point was made that the best course of action for the club is to stabilise it as a good league one club with a good league one ground. I pointed out that failure to do that in whatever tier of the football pyramid is a principal reason for clubs failing. There are tens of examples. Even Wimbledon right before the MK move is a good example. You started talking all this nonsense about it only happens to small northern clubs with dodgy owners. (Bury's average attendance in 18/19 wasn't much below what Rovers is now by the way). I've said nothing about comparing Wael to Reynolds. We've all got POV but none of us know what Wael's planning stadium wise, if he's planning anything at all. What seems to be clear is that he wanted us back in L1 next season. Whatever that cost him financially. We also don't have a clue where he's getting the money from to finance the club or just how much he's prepared to spend in the long term.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 3, 2021 15:36:46 GMT
At present it's T shaped, the new design is a square shape, so it's going to take a big rebuild as I assume at least the l part of the T will have to be knocked down and rebuilt, unless the present exterior walls can become internal walls? Regardless it personally seems poor planning to me. Nothing particularly difficult about the extension build. It is pretty obvious that the original planning permission was extant and Rovers utilised that to get on with the build. Extending to fill in the gaps in the T are the easiest way to get another ~70% floor space. I personally think this is sensible use of the planning system.
FWIW I'd rather the Mem be extended in this, incremental way.
Back to the main subject. Like many others, I was keen to give Joey a chance this season. However, 10 games was (and always has been) a decent yard-stick for how we will do. I'm sorry, but the football's been poor, tactically inept and - the clincher - results are poor. Without last season's complete capitulation, I would say carry on, but there is no sign to me that Joey will be able to turn this season around. I really fear that we could again face the trap door to the National League.
I hope Wael recognises that the crowd (even those who were previously supportive) have turned against Joey Barton and it would be better for all concerned to part company. Which is OK if the fans are right but what it they are not in Wael's view, does he just have to bow to popular opinion? Have we got so use to that happening at Rovers that we just assume it'll happen now with JB?
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Post by playtowin on Oct 3, 2021 15:42:50 GMT
Topper you really need to learn to read people's posts before automatically hitting the quote button to disagree with what they've said then bashing out some sh1te you've misunderstood from Google. The point was made that the best course of action for the club is to stabilise it as a good league one club with a good league one ground. I pointed out that failure to do that in whatever tier of the football pyramid is a principal reason for clubs failing. There are tens of examples. Even Wimbledon right before the MK move is a good example. You started talking all this nonsense about it only happens to small northern clubs with dodgy owners. (Bury's average attendance in 18/19 wasn't much below what Rovers is now by the way). I've said nothing about comparing Wael to Reynolds. We've all got POV but none of us know what Wael's planning stadium wise, if he's planning anything at all. What seems to be clear is that he wanted us back in L1 next season. Whatever that cost him financially. We also don't have a clue where he's getting the money from to finance the club or just how much he's prepared to spend in the long term. At some point the returns have to match the expenditure. Else the "business" is untenable. The stadium saga has now become a complete joke. Too many false dawns of stadiums that had no intention of being built. All we can currently say is there is no new stadium or mem rebuild. Its tents and 1980s stadium for the next 10 years at least.
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Post by LJG on Oct 3, 2021 15:55:50 GMT
Topper you really need to learn to read people's posts before automatically hitting the quote button to disagree with what they've said then bashing out some sh1te you've misunderstood from Google. The point was made that the best course of action for the club is to stabilise it as a good league one club with a good league one ground. I pointed out that failure to do that in whatever tier of the football pyramid is a principal reason for clubs failing. There are tens of examples. Even Wimbledon right before the MK move is a good example. You started talking all this nonsense about it only happens to small northern clubs with dodgy owners. (Bury's average attendance in 18/19 wasn't much below what Rovers is now by the way). I've said nothing about comparing Wael to Reynolds. We've all got POV but none of us know what Wael's planning stadium wise, if he's planning anything at all. What seems to be clear is that he wanted us back in L1 next season. Whatever that cost him financially. We also don't have a clue where he's getting the money from to finance the club or just how much he's prepared to spend in the long term. OK, Topps. You know best as always- Professor Google.
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Post by LJG on Oct 3, 2021 16:00:06 GMT
Because at the time Barton had taken us into the relegation zone, blamed all and sundry but himself, slated the players (the ones who play in the league above us now remember), bad-mouthed the club in the press and had a criminal trial hanging over his head. It wasn't exactly hindsight at the time to know it would be an utterly stupid idea for this loudmouth, gobshite zero-achiever to have control of the club from top to bottom. And you say you're sticking to that opinion even though we're even worse off now because 0of that utterly stupid idea. Yes i stick to my opinion and it seems so does Wael. Tell me how well all these players in higher divisions are getting on as I certainly haven't been hearing of rave reviews of them and what a massive mistake we made letting them go. Still haven't answered why the need to call me out in particular as I was not the only one with this opinion. People like you are why people walk away from this forum as if we don't agree with your view we are wrong and clueless. And I was a Garner fan who could see what the plan was but got shot down by many who also said he should never manage again. I didnt feel the need to call any of them out and won't as I don't believe in trying to belittle others to make me feel the big man. So you're saying you know better than all those different league one managers who have bought those players? Gotcha. And in answer to your question why did I call you and purdownpoacher out - the simple fact that you were the two people who I had discourse with in that thread. I'm not really sure why you think holding you to account for the things you've said on this forum is some intolerable act of cruelty and aggression. You said what you said - own it - be prepared for people with different opinions to challenge you on it. If being challenged on things you've said on football forums is something which causes you distress or upset then perhaps posting on football forums isn't the pastime for you.
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Post by bobbyjones on Oct 3, 2021 16:06:04 GMT
Topper you really need to learn to read people's posts before automatically hitting the quote button to disagree with what they've said then bashing out some sh1te you've misunderstood from Google. The point was made that the best course of action for the club is to stabilise it as a good league one club with a good league one ground. I pointed out that failure to do that in whatever tier of the football pyramid is a principal reason for clubs failing. There are tens of examples. Even Wimbledon right before the MK move is a good example. You started talking all this nonsense about it only happens to small northern clubs with dodgy owners. (Bury's average attendance in 18/19 wasn't much below what Rovers is now by the way). I've said nothing about comparing Wael to Reynolds. We've all got POV but none of us know what Wael's planning stadium wise, if he's planning anything at all. What seems to be clear is that he wanted us back in L1 next season. Whatever that cost him financially. We also don't have a clue where he's getting the money from to finance the club or just how much he's prepared to spend in the long term. Ask LANSDOWN
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Post by Quarters on Oct 3, 2021 16:07:43 GMT
Yes i stick to my opinion and it seems so does Wael. Tell me how well all these players in higher divisions are getting on as I certainly haven't been hearing of rave reviews of them and what a massive mistake we made letting them go. Still haven't answered why the need to call me out in particular as I was not the only one with this opinion. People like you are why people walk away from this forum as if we don't agree with your view we are wrong and clueless. And I was a Garner fan who could see what the plan was but got shot down by many who also said he should never manage again. I didnt feel the need to call any of them out and won't as I don't believe in trying to belittle others to make me feel the big man. So you're saying you know better than all those different league one managers who have bought those players? Gotcha. And in answer to your question why did I call you and purdownpoacher out - the simple fact that you were the two people who I had discourse with in that thread. I'm not really sure why you think holding you to account for the things you've said on this forum is some intolerable act of cruelty and aggression. You said what you said - own it - be prepared for people with different opinions to challenge you on it. If being challenged on things you've said on football forums is something which causes you distress or upset then perhaps posting on football forums isn't the pastime for you. Re players at other clubs. Ehmer and Tutonda both played in Gillingham back four last couple games. Ayunga, back from injury, scored yesterday. Hanlon has scored 1 in 6 games. Daly has been quiet, not sure what the story is. Views on players will always differ but really you think Ayunga would not have been a better option than Pitman.
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Post by LJG on Oct 3, 2021 16:09:29 GMT
So you're saying you know better than all those different league one managers who have bought those players? Gotcha. And in answer to your question why did I call you and purdownpoacher out - the simple fact that you were the two people who I had discourse with in that thread. I'm not really sure why you think holding you to account for the things you've said on this forum is some intolerable act of cruelty and aggression. You said what you said - own it - be prepared for people with different opinions to challenge you on it. If being challenged on things you've said on football forums is something which causes you distress or upset then perhaps posting on football forums isn't the pastime for you. Re players at other clubs. Ehmer and Tutonda both played in Gillingham back four last couple games. Ayunga, back from injury, scored yesterday. Hanlon has scored 1 in 6 games. Daly has been quiet, not sure what the story is. Views on players will always differ but really you think Ayunga would not have been a better option than Pitman. I definitely DO think Ayunga would have been a better option than Pitman. It's Bridgewatergas who disagrees and thinks r Joey should continue shredding this club from top to bottom into the sh1tter.
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