|
|
Post by fintanstack on Sept 16, 2022 9:43:14 GMT
I see Godwin's Law has proven itself yet again. It does not apply if the person(s) being discussed were actually nazi sympathisers. I am talking about the establishment in general rather than the Queen specifically. I have stated before, Phillip was regularly racist and was reported as such in the press back when it was all a jolly lark. Meghan Markle has reported racism. The Queen has done little to reform or rebuild trust in the monarchy. A person should not be judged on a single photo from a bygone age, but instead on what they have done since. Or in the case of the Monarchy, what they have not done since. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Sept 16, 2022 9:46:58 GMT
As Head of State she had a responsibility for the actions of her family. In the same way that she rightly stripped her her disgusting son of titles over his involvement in trafficking under 18 young women through his association with Epstein. A very public act. 100s of 1000s of UK nationals were killed defending our country, including one member of my family. The actions of her family in that regard were a bigger offence than the actions of her disgusting son. Who in her family actively supported the Nazis and who in her family actively fought against them (both in combat or in other roles)? The ones that jump out were Mountbatten and her husband (I think) and she herself put the uniform on. Those are the ones that served to defend the country. Those who harboured sympathy for the fascists, her uncle and mother. They were German or of German decent so would have had family ties there. Saxe-Coburg-Gotha anyone? It was George V who ordained the family dispense of German titles and the family name. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Sept 16, 2022 9:47:32 GMT
It does not apply if the person(s) being discussed were actually nazi sympathisers. I am talking about the establishment in general rather than the Queen specifically. I have stated before, Phillip was regularly racist and was reported as such in the press back when it was all a jolly lark. Meghan Markle has reported racism. The Queen has done little to reform or rebuild trust in the monarchy. A person should not be judged on a single photo from a bygone age, but instead on what they have done since. Or in the case of the Monarchy, what they have not done since. Well said sir |
|
|
|
Post by trevorgas on Sept 16, 2022 9:49:35 GMT
We don't know either way as we all know that her private conversations have remained just that ,Les I respect your views, for some reason you appear to have lost objectivity on this subject. Have you been or worked in the US,does that mean you are or were supportive of the racist legislation enacted etc,I don't think so. As Head of State she had a responsibility for the actions of her family. In the same way that she rightly stripped her her disgusting son of titles over his involvement in trafficking under 18 young women through his association with Epstein. A very public act. 100s of 1000s of UK nationals were killed defending our country, including one member of my family. The actions of her family in that regard were a bigger offence than the actions of her disgusting son. But Les she was not Head of State in the 30s or when war broke out and I hardly think that she would opine on such matters when she became Queen would have been very stupid as Europe was going through political readjustment etc post war,so I don t see how it's relevant. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Sept 16, 2022 9:51:25 GMT
There was a time i would think when the Nazi party was viewed as a force for good in a country which was on its knees That you could actually believe that and make such a statement tells us all we could ever want to know about you. |
|
|
|
Post by trevorgas on Sept 16, 2022 9:54:43 GMT
There was a time i would think when the Nazi party was viewed as a force for good in a country which was on its knees That you could actually believe that and make such a statement tells us all we could ever want to know about you. I don't want to put words in RH mouth but what I think he means that there were many countries around the World at that time including many in our own Government and the US that were at best ambivalent towards Nazi Germany. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Sept 16, 2022 9:58:35 GMT
As Head of State she had a responsibility for the actions of her family. In the same way that she rightly stripped her her disgusting son of titles over his involvement in trafficking under 18 young women through his association with Epstein. A very public act. 100s of 1000s of UK nationals were killed defending our country, including one member of my family. The actions of her family in that regard were a bigger offence than the actions of her disgusting son. But Les she was not Head of State in the 30s or when war broke out and I hardly think that she would opine on such matters when she became Queen would have been very stupid as Europe was going through political readjustment etc post war,so I don t see how it's relevant. When she became Head of State (1952?) the offensive members of her family were still alive. Edward did not die until 1972. Our of deference to all those who were killed defending against those he supported she should have denounced him, publicly. She did not. It seems his greater sin was having the audacity to have a relationship with someone they didn't approve of, I mean, really?? Megan Markle anyone? So it goes on. Now we are being subjected to relentless propaganda over Charles. So it goes on. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Sept 16, 2022 10:00:32 GMT
That you could actually believe that and make such a statement tells us all we could ever want to know about you. I don't want to put words in RH mouth but what I think he means that there were many countries around the World at that time including many in our own Government and the US that were at best ambivalent towards Nazi Germany. Thank you, precisely. Especially members of the family of our head of state at the time. Glad you agree. So that's alright then, I guess. 🤔🤔 |
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Sept 16, 2022 10:03:40 GMT
Who in her family actively supported the Nazis and who in her family actively fought against them (both in combat or in other roles)? The ones that jump out were Mountbatten and her husband (I think) and she herself put the uniform on. Those are the ones that served to defend the country. Those who harboured sympathy for the fascists, her uncle and mother. They were German or of German decent so would have had family ties there. Saxe-Coburg-Gotha anyone? It was George V who ordained the family dispense of German titles and the family name. Do you have a link for her mother harbouring Nazi sympthathies other than the photo or by association? Bearing in mind the support (PR) given by her and George VI during the war tends to suggest otherwise. The heritage is also tenuous, they are a couple of generations along and the renaming by George V is well known. |
|
|
|
Post by trevorgas on Sept 16, 2022 10:08:04 GMT
I don't want to put words in RH mouth but what I think he means that there were many countries around the World at that time including many in our own Government and the US that were at best ambivalent towards Nazi Germany. Thank you, precisely. Especially members of the family of our head of state at the time. Glad you agree. So that's alright then, I guess. 🤔🤔 That Edward V111 was a Nazi sympathesier is a fact,my suspicion is that there were many families in Britain that had members who were sympathetic towards the Nazi's there were certainly were in government and of course Moseley's movement would not have got going without support at ground level. |
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Sept 16, 2022 10:08:15 GMT
That you could actually believe that and make such a statement tells us all we could ever want to know about you. I don't want to put words in RH mouth but what I think he means that there were many countries around the World at that time including many in our own Government and the US that were at best ambivalent towards Nazi Germany. Joe Kennedy? |
|
|
|
Post by trevorgas on Sept 16, 2022 10:11:42 GMT
But Les she was not Head of State in the 30s or when war broke out and I hardly think that she would opine on such matters when she became Queen would have been very stupid as Europe was going through political readjustment etc post war,so I don t see how it's relevant. When she became Head of State (1952?) the offensive members of her family were still alive. Edward did not die until 1972. Our of deference to all those who were killed defending against those he supported she should have denounced him, publicly. She did not. It seems his greater sin was having the audacity to have a relationship with someone they didn't approve of, I mean, really?? Megan Markle anyone? So it goes on. Now we are being subjected to relentless propaganda over Charles. So it goes on. Perhaps she thought his exile was indicative of her support ,who knows as for Megan we have one side of the argument |
|
|
|
Post by rememberhalifax on Sept 16, 2022 10:16:51 GMT
There was a time i would think when the Nazi party was viewed as a force for good in a country which was on its knees That you could actually believe that and make such a statement tells us all we could ever want to know about you. Thank you, how charming, must be great to be such a fantastic judge of character, i am obviously nowhere near as clever as you, i seem to be way out of my depth on this forum but i will stick around and try and learn from great minds like yours. |
|
|
|
Post by SleepyGas on Sept 16, 2022 10:20:26 GMT
Details on tomorrow's schedule of events at The Mem: www.bristolrovers.co.uk/news/2022/september/queen-memorial-schedule/PLEASE ARRIVE EARLYWe advise all fans to take their places inside the stadium by 2:45pm to ensure the pre-match tributes adhere to timings.
To that end, all turnstiles will close between 2:55pm and 3:00pm. Access to the stadium will not be permitted within that time.
The FanZone and the Seat Unique Suite will close at 2:45pm.
The Club Shop and Ticket Office will close at 2:45pm. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Sept 16, 2022 10:57:21 GMT
That you could actually believe that and make such a statement tells us all we could ever want to know about you. Thank you, how charming, must be great to be such a fantastic judge of character, i am obviously nowhere near as clever as you, i seem to be way out of my depth on this forum but i will stick around and try and learn from great minds like yours. My pleasure (I think🤔) |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Sept 16, 2022 11:00:00 GMT
When she became Head of State (1952?) the offensive members of her family were still alive. Edward did not die until 1972. Our of deference to all those who were killed defending against those he supported she should have denounced him, publicly. She did not. It seems his greater sin was having the audacity to have a relationship with someone they didn't approve of, I mean, really?? Megan Markle anyone? So it goes on. Now we are being subjected to relentless propaganda over Charles. So it goes on. Perhaps she thought his exile was indicative of her support ,who knows as for Megan we have one side of the argument Is there an argument? I know nothing about her, other than the relentless propaganda campaign against her. Was it because she dared to say something? |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Sept 16, 2022 11:01:36 GMT
I don't want to put words in RH mouth but what I think he means that there were many countries around the World at that time including many in our own Government and the US that were at best ambivalent towards Nazi Germany. Joe Kennedy? Was he in our system of Government? I never knew.... |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Sept 16, 2022 11:04:27 GMT
Thank you, precisely. Especially members of the family of our head of state at the time. Glad you agree. So that's alright then, I guess. 🤔🤔 That Edward V111 was a Nazi sympathesier is a fact,my suspicion is that there were many families in Britain that had members who were sympathetic towards the Nazi's there were certainly were in government and of course Moseley's movement would not have got going without support at ground level. Absolutely They lurk still today. Just look at the statements made to gain power. Nationalism is a hair's width from National Socialism...pop over to the other forum and read the denunciation of foreigners. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Sept 16, 2022 11:11:11 GMT
The ones that jump out were Mountbatten and her husband (I think) and she herself put the uniform on. Those are the ones that served to defend the country. Those who harboured sympathy for the fascists, her uncle and mother. They were German or of German decent so would have had family ties there. Saxe-Coburg-Gotha anyone? It was George V who ordained the family dispense of German titles and the family name. Do you have a link for her mother harbouring Nazi sympthathies other than the photo or by association? Bearing in mind the support (PR) given by her and George VI during the war tends to suggest otherwise. The heritage is also tenuous, they are a couple of generations along and the renaming by George V is well known. All that you suggest, plus personal third party references. I was involved in the restaurant trade in the late 90s early 2000s (about the time I first met you Stuart) and one of the leading lights in the then fast evolving London food scene told me stories of gin soaked lunches at the Ritz along Piccadilly and the tirades that came out of her mouth. Anecdotal of course. |
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Sept 16, 2022 11:11:40 GMT
Was he in our system of Government? I never knew.... I was responding to the notion that many others thought the same. However, as US ambassador to the UK he would have been influential with the US government and President. He wanted to succeed Roosevelt in 1940 and was an advocate of appeasement. Imagine what would have happened then, a more likely scenario than Edward VIII appointing Oswald Moseley. |
|
