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Post by yattongas on Sept 2, 2023 12:48:11 GMT
“Here’s the full fact response, they’re not always factual but on this occasion I’ll use them to support my case “ 😂🙄 Yes, Full-Fact has an in-built bias which means their name is not always accurate. So when I read their pieces (and to be clear, they were not my primary or secondary source of information on this story) I always double check everything they claim. In this case they have a decent summary with links to the evidence, so it's the easiest source to point someone to so they can read what actually happened... Explain more on their inbuilt bias ?
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Post by aghast on Sept 2, 2023 21:51:01 GMT
Yes, Full-Fact has an in-built bias which means their name is not always accurate. So when I read their pieces (and to be clear, they were not my primary or secondary source of information on this story) I always double check everything they claim. In this case they have a decent summary with links to the evidence, so it's the easiest source to point someone to so they can read what actually happened... Explain more on their inbuilt bias ? I think we know the answer. They don't always support things supergas believes in, so they are biased. He's found a site that is full of ex BBC and Mirror journalists, and, much as it annoys him, he's picking the bits he likes and saying the rest is inherently biased. Always found Full Fact to be an admirable website, even when what they conclude doesn't align with what I thought. Hard to deny their research.
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Post by yattongas on Sept 2, 2023 22:16:22 GMT
Explain more on their inbuilt bias ? I think we know the answer. They don't always support things supergas believes in, so they are biased. He's found a site that is full of ex BBC and Mirror journalists, and, much as it annoys him, he's picking the bits he likes and saying the rest is inherently biased. Always found Full Fact to be an admirable website, even when what they conclude doesn't align with what I thought. Hard to deny their research. Likewise. I’ll be interested to read his reply .
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Post by supergas on Sept 3, 2023 8:47:06 GMT
Yes, Full-Fact has an in-built bias which means their name is not always accurate. So when I read their pieces (and to be clear, they were not my primary or secondary source of information on this story) I always double check everything they claim. In this case they have a decent summary with links to the evidence, so it's the easiest source to point someone to so they can read what actually happened... Explain more on their inbuilt bias ? Well do you trust them just because of their name? "More Context" would be better... ...aside from what they miss and sometimes get wrong, nearly three-quarters of their funding is from just Facebook and Google - in itself not necessarily a bad thing, but it's somewhat of a feedback loop - they are being funded by big-tech to provide a service for big-tech and (seemingly just because of their name) are taken as some kind of ultimate and independent fact-checker when in fact they're basically a subsidiary of the platforms who's content they are passing judgement on... ...and (this was a couple of years ago and so many have changed by now) a blogger started asking about the 'about us' section of their website, which claimed their board had members from the three main UK political parties...it didn't, the board only had Labour and Lib-Dem members , a misleading claim it took them months to change...on their own website... The blogger delved further and found nearly all of Full-Fact's staff (again at the time a couple of years back, not sure about now) had previously worked for left-leaning press/websites - The Mirror, Buzzfeed, The Canary, the BBC... ...so like all sources, I will read what they say and check it against other sources, especially if their claims seems unlikely or a bit left-field....
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Post by supergas on Sept 3, 2023 8:59:10 GMT
Pretty sure blackmail is when you force someone else to give you £1bn, not when you are giving them £1bn and simply asking them to follow some very sensible business expectations...these were plans the Mayor/TFL had in place already that were simply delayed by covid, and they were designed to raise money with air quality being an afterthought... ...and this buck (pound) stops at City Hall. Khan can't balance a budget when a crisis happens, needs a government bailout and yet people on social media immediately jump to completely the wrong conclusion about what happened/why it happened.... Pretty sure that Shapps intentions were clear. Agree to expand ULEZ or the funding for TFL will be withheld. Either way you spin it, that's what happened. It's not spin....the timeline is very clear.... ...Khan decided to expand ULEZ. Covid hit and he postponed the expansion... ...Khan then asks the government for £1bn to keep TFL going once covid restrictions start to lift and people can start to use public transport again... ...the government agree to loan the money *on the basis that* TFL implements all plans to raise extra revenue it postponed because of covid. That doesn't mean Shapps/the Conservatives/the Government agree with the policy, just that Khan needs to implement it as he planned to... ...expanding the ULEZ zone has never been Conservative/Government policy and anyone who says it *is* their policy because of the TFL funding letters/deals is just wrong....
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Post by oldie on Sept 3, 2023 9:12:54 GMT
Pretty sure that Shapps intentions were clear. Agree to expand ULEZ or the funding for TFL will be withheld. Either way you spin it, that's what happened. It's not spin....the timeline is very clear.... ...Khan decided to expand ULEZ. Covid hit and he postponed the expansion... ...Khan then asks the government for £1bn to keep TFL going once covid restrictions start to lift and people can start to use public transport again... ...the government agree to loan the money *on the basis that* TFL implements all plans to raise extra revenue it postponed because of covid. That doesn't mean Shapps/the Conservatives/the Government agree with the policy, just that Khan needs to implement it as he planned to... ...expanding the ULEZ zone has never been Conservative/Government policy and anyone who says it *is* their policy because of the TFL funding letters/deals is just wrong.... Regardless of all the factors in play, Shapps insisted that the ULEZ was expanded as part of the TFL funding arrangements. The point here is that regardless of political leanings the truth needs to be out. For example the Uxbridge bye election. The electorate there were blissfully unaware of what Shapps had enforced as part of the funding arrangements. As a result they placed their votes predicated upon less than full facts. Would it have made any difference? Who knows, but given that it was a very close call, I suspect it would. Now, school maintenance programmes anyone and Michael Gove cancelling the new build initiative? Cue it was all somebody else's fault.
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Post by yattongas on Sept 3, 2023 9:14:31 GMT
Explain more on their inbuilt bias ? Well do you trust them just because of their name? "More Context" would be better... ...aside from what they miss and sometimes get wrong, nearly three-quarters of their funding is from just Facebook and Google - in itself not necessarily a bad thing, but it's somewhat of a feedback loop - they are being funded by big-tech to provide a service for big-tech and (seemingly just because of their name) are taken as some kind of ultimate and independent fact-checker when in fact they're basically a subsidiary of the platforms who's content they are passing judgement on... ...and (this was a couple of years ago and so many have changed by now) a blogger started asking about the 'about us' section of their website, which claimed their board had members from the three main UK political parties...it didn't, the board only had Labour and Lib-Dem members , a misleading claim it took them months to change...on their own website... The blogger delved further and found nearly all of Full-Fact's staff (again at the time a couple of years back, not sure about now) had previously worked for left-leaning press/websites - The Mirror, Buzzfeed, The Canary, the BBC... ...so like all sources, I will read what they say and check it against other sources, especially if their claims seems unlikely or a bit left-field.... Good that you think truth matters . Must be really hard for you as a ‘ rightie ‘ having to listen day after day of the utter bilge & bullshit pumped out by our current government.
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Post by supergas on Sept 3, 2023 9:33:32 GMT
Well do you trust them just because of their name? "More Context" would be better... ...aside from what they miss and sometimes get wrong, nearly three-quarters of their funding is from just Facebook and Google - in itself not necessarily a bad thing, but it's somewhat of a feedback loop - they are being funded by big-tech to provide a service for big-tech and (seemingly just because of their name) are taken as some kind of ultimate and independent fact-checker when in fact they're basically a subsidiary of the platforms who's content they are passing judgement on... ...and (this was a couple of years ago and so many have changed by now) a blogger started asking about the 'about us' section of their website, which claimed their board had members from the three main UK political parties...it didn't, the board only had Labour and Lib-Dem members , a misleading claim it took them months to change...on their own website... The blogger delved further and found nearly all of Full-Fact's staff (again at the time a couple of years back, not sure about now) had previously worked for left-leaning press/websites - The Mirror, Buzzfeed, The Canary, the BBC... ...so like all sources, I will read what they say and check it against other sources, especially if their claims seems unlikely or a bit left-field.... Good that you think truth matters . Must be really hard for you as a ‘ rightie ‘ having to listen day after day of the utter bilge & bullshit pumped out by our current government. Yes the truth matters....and as a self-confessed 'rightie' (despite voting Labour twice and Lib Dem twice in the last 15 years at local and General elections) you won't find me on here or any other forum/social media platform telling you that you're all wrong/idiots just because we disagree politically - all I like to do is debate the issues, bring up some facts people have missed (or are ignoring) and sometimes challenge claims that don't make sense....
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Post by yattongas on Sept 3, 2023 9:40:58 GMT
Good that you think truth matters . Must be really hard for you as a ‘ rightie ‘ having to listen day after day of the utter bilge & bullshit pumped out by our current government. Yes the truth matters....and as a self-confessed 'rightie' (despite voting Labour twice and Lib Dem twice in the last 15 years at local and General elections) you won't find me on here or any other forum/social media platform telling you that you're all wrong/idiots just because we disagree politically - all I like to do is debate the issues, bring up some facts people have missed (or are ignoring) and sometimes challenge claims that don't make sense.... So wasn’t full-fact set up to counter the utter rubbish / LIES being pumped out by the government? I’m guessing that’s why it received more money/help/ etc from those on the left. Those on the right are hardly going to jump on board with that are they ? It’s coming ( mainly) from their side. As a rightie who’s voted green before how do you feel about the rights climate denial nonsense?
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Post by supergas on Sept 3, 2023 9:41:22 GMT
Regardless of all the factors in play, Shapps insisted that the ULEZ was expanded as part of the TFL funding arrangements. The point here is that regardless of political leanings the truth needs to be out. For example the Uxbridge bye election. The electorate there were blissfully unaware of what Shapps had enforced as part of the funding arrangements. As a result they placed their votes predicated upon less than full facts. Would it have made any difference? Who knows, but given that it was a very close call, I suspect it would. Now, school maintenance programmes anyone and Michael Gove cancelling the new build initiative? Cue it was all somebody else's fault. I'm not sure I can explain this any better. Expanding the ULEZ area was Khan's (Labour Mayor) plan and was only postponed because of Covid. Expanding the ULEZ area has *never* been any Conservative candidate's/Minister's/Constituency's plan, nor the overall party/government plan. So at the Uxbridge and South Ruislip by-election no one was mislead...party policies were made clear and all Shapps was doing in the letters to TFL was making sure they were raising all the money they had planned to *BEFORE* the government gave them £1bn to keep the services running....
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Post by supergas on Sept 3, 2023 9:46:30 GMT
Yes the truth matters....and as a self-confessed 'rightie' (despite voting Labour twice and Lib Dem twice in the last 15 years at local and General elections) you won't find me on here or any other forum/social media platform telling you that you're all wrong/idiots just because we disagree politically - all I like to do is debate the issues, bring up some facts people have missed (or are ignoring) and sometimes challenge claims that don't make sense.... So wasn’t full-fact set up to counter the utter rubbish / LIES being pumped out by the government? I’m guessing that’s why it received more money/help/ etc from those on the left. Those on the right are hardly going to jump on board with that are they ? It’s coming ( mainly) from their side. As a rightie who’s voted green before how do you feel about the rights climate denial nonsense? ...mis-information comes from all sides. Full-fact was set up to counter all misleading claims and (as I mentioned before) would have been better off being called More-Context... ...why would anyone believe anything they see claimed by any politician without a quick check of other sources? Same with the more biased media/websites/blogs and 100% with social media...
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Post by yattongas on Sept 3, 2023 9:53:22 GMT
So wasn’t full-fact set up to counter the utter rubbish / LIES being pumped out by the government? I’m guessing that’s why it received more money/help/ etc from those on the left. Those on the right are hardly going to jump on board with that are they ? It’s coming ( mainly) from their side. As a rightie who’s voted green before how do you feel about the rights climate denial nonsense? ...mis-information comes from all sides. Full-fact was set up to counter all misleading claims and (as I mentioned before) would have been better off being called More-Context... ...why would anyone believe anything they see claimed by any politician without a quick check of other sources? Same with the more biased media/websites/blogs and 100% with social media... The provable lies told by Trump & Johnson were/are on another planet to what’s happened before . The right’s climate denial nonsense is on another level to what we’ve heard before . Just can’t think that anyone could/can think that the lies told by the right are comparable at this moment in history. Lets not even go there on Brexit! 😂👍
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Post by supergas on Sept 3, 2023 10:52:16 GMT
...mis-information comes from all sides. Full-fact was set up to counter all misleading claims and (as I mentioned before) would have been better off being called More-Context... ...why would anyone believe anything they see claimed by any politician without a quick check of other sources? Same with the more biased media/websites/blogs and 100% with social media... The provable lies told by Trump & Johnson were/are on another planet to what’s happened before . The right’s climate denial nonsense is on another level to what we’ve heard before . Just can’t think that anyone could/can think that the lies told by the right are comparable at this moment in history. Lets not even go there on Brexit! 😂👍 ...Trump, Johnson, Biden, Corbyn, Starmer, Truss *scrolls back* Clinton, Abbott, May, Cameron...they all claim(ed) things that should be fact-checked and that's a fine and noble cause. If it's done correctly though, and that's not always a strength of Full-Fact... ...what's getting worse and worse though is the social media misinformation posts about what these people (and others) did/didn't do, or what happened/didn't happen because of it...
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Post by yattongas on Sept 3, 2023 12:41:02 GMT
The provable lies told by Trump & Johnson were/are on another planet to what’s happened before . The right’s climate denial nonsense is on another level to what we’ve heard before . Just can’t think that anyone could/can think that the lies told by the right are comparable at this moment in history. Lets not even go there on Brexit! 😂👍 ...Trump, Johnson, Biden, Corbyn, Starmer, Truss *scrolls back* Clinton, Abbott, May, Cameron...they all claim(ed) things that should be fact-checked and that's a fine and noble cause. If it's done correctly though, and that's not always a strength of Full-Fact... ...what's getting worse and worse though is the social media misinformation posts about what these people (and others) did/didn't do, or what happened/didn't happen because of it... Yes all the above have told untruths, but none of them on the scale of Trump & Johnson. That’s the point , those on the right are telling more lies than ever before. Can’t see how you can argue that.
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Post by yattongas on Sept 3, 2023 13:03:48 GMT
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Post by oldie on Sept 3, 2023 15:38:11 GMT
Regardless of all the factors in play, Shapps insisted that the ULEZ was expanded as part of the TFL funding arrangements. The point here is that regardless of political leanings the truth needs to be out. For example the Uxbridge bye election. The electorate there were blissfully unaware of what Shapps had enforced as part of the funding arrangements. As a result they placed their votes predicated upon less than full facts. Would it have made any difference? Who knows, but given that it was a very close call, I suspect it would. Now, school maintenance programmes anyone and Michael Gove cancelling the new build initiative? Cue it was all somebody else's fault. I'm not sure I can explain this any better. Expanding the ULEZ area was Khan's (Labour Mayor) plan and was only postponed because of Covid. Expanding the ULEZ area has *never* been any Conservative candidate's/Minister's/Constituency's plan, nor the overall party/government plan. So at the Uxbridge and South Ruislip by-election no one was mislead...party policies were made clear and all Shapps was doing in the letters to TFL was making sure they were raising all the money they had planned to *BEFORE* the government gave them £1bn to keep the services running.... And I cannot explain it any more clearly. Shapps made it a contractual obligation to enforce the expansion of ULEZ as part of the TFL financing arrangements. If the Tories were so against that form of taxation they wouldn't have done that. You are dancing on a pinhead my friend. Now, schools in danger of collapsing. Another Tory policy in 2010 to cancel the school building programme. Was Mr Gove not liable for that?
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 4, 2023 9:09:28 GMT
"Some 1,500 schools have not returned surveys used to identify the crumbling concrete. Education Secretary Gillian Keegan said she expects potentially hundreds more to be identified in the weeks to come A former top civil servant at the Department for Education said the budget for rebuilding schools was halved by Rishi Sunak while he was Chancellor in 2021 - down from 100 to 50 Keegan said £15bn has gone into capital spending for schools since 2015, delivering "value for money" to the sector The education secretary confirmed temporary mitigation measures in schools will be funded by the DofE, but other things like transport of students to new locations will be considered on a case-by-case basis Keegan said the list of schools affected by unsafe RAAC will be published this week" www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-66701626
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 4, 2023 9:15:02 GMT
Starmer expected to have his own mini reshuffle today.
Suggestions Angela Rayner may get a role (and stay on as deputy) as will Bristol North West Darren Jones.
In other news, the vote in Nadine Dorries' constituency could be held on 12 October or 19 October.
The SNP will also move a writ for the Rutherglen vote today.
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 4, 2023 12:59:51 GMT
Hillary Benn is back, Lisa Nandy demoted. List here:https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-chancellor-jeremy-hunt-to-face-questions-on-the-economy-as-mps-prepare-to-return-to-parliament-12593360?postid=6387038#liveblog-body
Nadine Dorries has a book out later this year, should be fun for Sunak.
Gillian Keegan caught swearing off camera, clearly frustrated.
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Post by nailseagas43 on Sept 4, 2023 13:32:23 GMT
Anyone seen the education secretary car crash recording, she has been could on camera/mic saying no one ever thanks her for doing a ucking good job 😂
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