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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 1, 2023 9:21:29 GMT
The conviction for voter fraud...would that be Mohammad Zain Qureshi who admitted he voted twice for Labour in the general election ? Just because one person was convicted doesn't mean it doesn't go on. There are 100s of fraud cases at each election investigated so surely having to produce ID can only be a good thing to save time and police man hours investigating it. By the way I think you've confused as to who is a Conservative MP. The last sitting MP to be jailed is Fiona Onasanya (Labour) the first serving MP to be jailed in 28 years since Terry Fields in 1991 who was also Labour. Yeah I probably am ! Mind you the whole bloody lot should have been locked up for the state they’ve made of the UK in the last 13 yrs. The point I was trying to illustrate was this is so bloody obviously skewed in favour of older voters than younger voters it’s a joke . You know this as well but as always you’ll wave your little Tory flag and fight the good fight trying to convince us all black is white 🙄😂 Good to have you back by the way 👍 Why would you focus your efforts on younger voters? Is it because they’re easier to manipulate by any chance? Leftists go straight for schools, universities and kids, very easy for adults who failed in life to transfer their bitterness and resentment onto a new generation of kids, turn them against the people who nurtured and cared for them (“you stole my dreams. How dhare you”). We all know why you do it. And so do you. Kids don’t have the life experience to properly judge difficult issues, and are easily enticed by financial bribes and simplistic solutions - which is exactly what you peddle. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 1, 2023 9:33:35 GMT
Yeah I probably am ! Mind you the whole bloody lot should have been locked up for the state they’ve made of the UK in the last 13 yrs. The point I was trying to illustrate was this is so bloody obviously skewed in favour of older voters than younger voters it’s a joke . You know this as well but as always you’ll wave your little Tory flag and fight the good fight trying to convince us all black is white 🙄😂 Good to have you back by the way 👍 Why would you focus your efforts on younger voters? Is it because they’re easier to manipulate by any chance? Leftists go straight for schools, universities and kids, very easy for adults who failed in life to transfer their bitterness and resentment onto a new generation of kids, turn them against the people who nurtured and cared for them (“you stole my dreams. How dhare you”). We all know why you do it. And so do you. Kids don’t have the life experience to properly judge difficult issues, and are easily enticed by financial bribes and simplistic solutions - which is exactly what you peddle. I'd say a lot of people regardless of age don't have the life experience or more likely interest to understand the various elements of government or politics in general. As for financial inducements, triple lock?? It cuts both ways. |
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Post by yattongas on Mar 1, 2023 9:51:12 GMT
Yeah I probably am ! Mind you the whole bloody lot should have been locked up for the state they’ve made of the UK in the last 13 yrs. The point I was trying to illustrate was this is so bloody obviously skewed in favour of older voters than younger voters it’s a joke . You know this as well but as always you’ll wave your little Tory flag and fight the good fight trying to convince us all black is white 🙄😂 Good to have you back by the way 👍 Why would you focus your efforts on younger voters? Is it because they’re easier to manipulate by any chance? Leftists go straight for schools, universities and kids, very easy for adults who failed in life to transfer their bitterness and resentment onto a new generation of kids, turn them against the people who nurtured and cared for them (“you stole my dreams. How dhare you”). We all know why you do it. And so do you. Kids don’t have the life experience to properly judge difficult issues, and are easily enticed by financial bribes and simplistic solutions - which is exactly what you peddle. Haha what a prat you are 😂🙄 |
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Post by oldie on Mar 1, 2023 9:58:26 GMT
Why would you focus your efforts on younger voters? Is it because they’re easier to manipulate by any chance? Leftists go straight for schools, universities and kids, very easy for adults who failed in life to transfer their bitterness and resentment onto a new generation of kids, turn them against the people who nurtured and cared for them (“you stole my dreams. How dhare you”). We all know why you do it. And so do you. Kids don’t have the life experience to properly judge difficult issues, and are easily enticed by financial bribes and simplistic solutions - which is exactly what you peddle. Haha what a prat you are 😂🙄 I read that post by GoA in disbelief. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 1, 2023 10:05:21 GMT
Haha what a prat you are 😂🙄 I read that post by GoA in disbelief. That's because you are a leftie with no self awareness. Truth hurts. 🤭 |
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 1, 2023 10:25:43 GMT
Haha what a prat you are 😂🙄 I read that post by GoA in disbelief. Seriously, you’re trying to garner a support for something you’re doing, and as an adult you head over to a load of teenagers and try to get them inside, while the older people tend to disagree. What do you think of that person and their intentions? That’s exactly what’s happening in politics and our schools and universities. It’s how ISIS works FFS! Any organisation which tries primarily to mobilise youth warrants some suspicion. Don’t forget I was in Trotskyist organisations as a youth before I worked it out. One of the main moments is when I realised most of them were either unemployed, involved in some kind of crime and the highest any of them had got to in life was “college lecturer” (of which there were many, perhaps 40% of the membership worked in education) It’s not all lefties of course. Generally though, people are lefter when younger, twas always thus. Which is why i treat older people who remain there as suffering from a form of arrested development or simply those who never experienced enough to learn the lessons of the folly of their youth. Or perhaps those who always worked in the public sector and never had a bottom line to deal with. |
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 1, 2023 10:32:42 GMT
Why would you focus your efforts on younger voters? Is it because they’re easier to manipulate by any chance? Leftists go straight for schools, universities and kids, very easy for adults who failed in life to transfer their bitterness and resentment onto a new generation of kids, turn them against the people who nurtured and cared for them (“you stole my dreams. How dhare you”). We all know why you do it. And so do you. Kids don’t have the life experience to properly judge difficult issues, and are easily enticed by financial bribes and simplistic solutions - which is exactly what you peddle. I'd say a lot of people regardless of age don't have the life experience or more likely interest to understand the various elements of government or politics in general. As for financial inducements, triple lock?? It cuts both ways. Are you better equipped to deal with political questions now, or at 18? Does anyone on this thread feel at 18 they were better qualified to handle big or small questions? Decisions? Of course, we all know the answer is no. Yes, some older people aren’t well equipped but they were even worse at 18. Take your point on the triple lock. I would add to this that todays pensioners were sold a socialist ideal of “cradle to grave” and latterly found out it’s like all other promises, like the NHS, that it’s a nice idea but it swells and swells and gets squandered and you end up with next to nothing, long waits and a “get what you’re given” scenario and any scrutiny for value for money is just met with strikes or “give us more money” I’m a long way from retiring but I have more sympathy for old and alone elderly folks than I do for young people wanting to buy properties. The way boomers have been vilified is disgusting. The generation who gave us civil rights have been tarnished as the problem, it’s very Maoist TBH. |
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Post by yattongas on Mar 1, 2023 11:13:10 GMT
I'd say a lot of people regardless of age don't have the life experience or more likely interest to understand the various elements of government or politics in general. As for financial inducements, triple lock?? It cuts both ways. Are you better equipped to deal with political questions now, or at 18? Does anyone on this thread feel at 18 they were better qualified to handle big or small questions? Decisions? Of course, we all know the answer is no. Yes, some older people aren’t well equipped but they were even worse at 18. Take your point on the triple lock. I would add to this that todays pensioners were sold a socialist ideal of “cradle to grave” and latterly found out it’s like all other promises, like the NHS, that it’s a nice idea but it swells and swells and gets squandered and you end up with next to nothing, long waits and a “get what you’re given” scenario and any scrutiny for value for money is just met with strikes or “give us more money” I’m a long way from retiring but I have more sympathy for old and alone elderly folks than I do for young people wanting to buy properties. The way boomers have been vilified is disgusting. The generation who gave us civil rights have been tarnished as the problem, it’s very Maoist TBH. Oh gawd 🙄 Our elders voted predominantly for putting up trade barriers with our nearest neighbours in the belief that trade deals with countries the other side of the planet would compensate and we’d even prosper . Obvs none of them voted out for racist reasons ( as you and others have told us ). So they really are wiser aren’t they ? Mind you , some prats who post on here voted for it and still try and convince ( themselves) us it was a good idea . Get back in your box you plonker 🙄 |
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 1, 2023 11:59:28 GMT
Are you better equipped to deal with political questions now, or at 18? Does anyone on this thread feel at 18 they were better qualified to handle big or small questions? Decisions? Of course, we all know the answer is no. Yes, some older people aren’t well equipped but they were even worse at 18. Take your point on the triple lock. I would add to this that todays pensioners were sold a socialist ideal of “cradle to grave” and latterly found out it’s like all other promises, like the NHS, that it’s a nice idea but it swells and swells and gets squandered and you end up with next to nothing, long waits and a “get what you’re given” scenario and any scrutiny for value for money is just met with strikes or “give us more money” I’m a long way from retiring but I have more sympathy for old and alone elderly folks than I do for young people wanting to buy properties. The way boomers have been vilified is disgusting. The generation who gave us civil rights have been tarnished as the problem, it’s very Maoist TBH. Oh gawd 🙄 Our elders voted predominantly for putting up trade barriers with our nearest neighbours in the belief that trade deals with countries the other side of the planet would compensate and we’d even prosper . Obvs none of them voted out for racist reasons ( as you and others have told us ). So they really are wiser aren’t they ? Mind you , some prats who post on here voted for it and still try and convince ( themselves) us it was a good idea . Get back in your box you plonker 🙄 Aw, it’s Wacism is it? Stwikes again. Thwats a nwasty man. |
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Post by yattongas on Mar 1, 2023 12:11:03 GMT
Oh gawd 🙄 Our elders voted predominantly for putting up trade barriers with our nearest neighbours in the belief that trade deals with countries the other side of the planet would compensate and we’d even prosper . Obvs none of them voted out for racist reasons ( as you and others have told us ). So they really are wiser aren’t they ? Mind you , some prats who post on here voted for it and still try and convince ( themselves) us it was a good idea . Get back in your box you plonker 🙄 Aw, it’s Wacism is it? Stwikes again. Thwats a nwasty man. Talk about missing the point ! 😂 |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 1, 2023 12:26:51 GMT
I read that post by GoA in disbelief. Seriously, you’re trying to garner a support for something you’re doing, and as an adult you head over to a load of teenagers and try to get them inside, while the older people tend to disagree. What do you think of that person and their intentions? That’s exactly what’s happening in politics and our schools and universities. It’s how ISIS works FFS! Any organisation which tries primarily to mobilise youth warrants some suspicion. Don’t forget I was in Trotskyist organisations as a youth before I worked it out. One of the main moments is when I realised most of them were either unemployed, involved in some kind of crime and the highest any of them had got to in life was “college lecturer” (of which there were many, perhaps 40% of the membership worked in education) It’s not all lefties of course. Generally though, people are lefter when younger, twas always thus. Which is why i treat older people who remain there as suffering from a form of arrested development or simply those who never experienced enough to learn the lessons of the folly of their youth. Or perhaps those who always worked in the public sector and never had a bottom line to deal with. How much of your epiphany over Trotskyism has actually skewed your views to the extent that it colours your own interpretations? Bit like a former smoker who has to hate it so much that they become quite militant otherwise they can only blame themselves. As for lessons learned, I would wager my understanding of health and social care over the past few years is greater than many healthy 70 year old. It's about the life lived, experience isn't gained through osmosis. Age is not a good barometer to life experience and wisdom. |
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 1, 2023 12:43:33 GMT
Aw, it’s Wacism is it? Stwikes again. Thwats a nwasty man. Talk about missing the point ! 😂 Regardless of any outcome, you would still argue it’s been a disaster. People don’t like admitting they were wrong and lied to, so they? Let’s be honest, your point of view took zero effort or balls. It was the easy option to keep the status quo and (gasp) not be accused of racism. It was the corporate choice, the choice the government sanctioned (and even wrote to every household to advise them to do so, something so undemocratic it should be a de facto reason to oppose it on that basis alone). Let’s have a look at what project fear said: - Emergency budget within weeks of a leave vote. - 500K jobs lost. (We’ve now got a labour shortage, funny how you can have it both ways. If we had no labour shortage you’d say our jobs market is languishing. See how whichever route you go, remain has a pile of bollocks waiting for you!) - “the end of western civilisation as we know it” On the flip side we have 1 slogan on the bus which suggested “why not spend the £350M a week on the NHS instead” not a policy pledge, a suggestion. But, once again, this suddenly becomes apparently a cast iron Guarantee. When all is lost, when none of it came true, the last refuge is to call racism (when free movement for what are almost entirely white people at the expense of brown people is what the deal was) I come in here and despite none of project fears nonsense transpiring, the kool aid from the graun and evening standard has been drunk. People never, ever admit they were wrong. If Germany and Europe was a pile of ashes from a Russian war (as may still happen) there will still be yatton claiming a pile of ashes is a better deal than a 0.1% adjustment to GDP. |
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 1, 2023 12:48:33 GMT
Seriously, you’re trying to garner a support for something you’re doing, and as an adult you head over to a load of teenagers and try to get them inside, while the older people tend to disagree. What do you think of that person and their intentions? That’s exactly what’s happening in politics and our schools and universities. It’s how ISIS works FFS! Any organisation which tries primarily to mobilise youth warrants some suspicion. Don’t forget I was in Trotskyist organisations as a youth before I worked it out. One of the main moments is when I realised most of them were either unemployed, involved in some kind of crime and the highest any of them had got to in life was “college lecturer” (of which there were many, perhaps 40% of the membership worked in education) It’s not all lefties of course. Generally though, people are lefter when younger, twas always thus. Which is why i treat older people who remain there as suffering from a form of arrested development or simply those who never experienced enough to learn the lessons of the folly of their youth. Or perhaps those who always worked in the public sector and never had a bottom line to deal with. How much of your epiphany over Trotskyism has actually skewed your views to the extent that it colours your own interpretations? Bit like a former smoker who has to hate it so much that they become quite militant otherwise they can only blame themselves. Age is not a good barometer to life experience and wisdom. It is. That’s why you have to wait to 18 to vote, it’s why noncing kids is a thing regardless of consent. It’s why children aren’t allowed to make decisions. It’s why nearly every organisation, every political party, every business is run by people with experience. It’s why every society and culture on earth has looked to it’s elders for judgement and wisdom. Feel free to hand the reigns of power over to a bunch of kids. You’re in denial if you don’t think age is an indicator of experience and wisdom. It’s almost the literal definition of it, almost . Sure, anomalies exist. But even for young and bright minds, they will STILL be better informed at 40 than 20. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 1, 2023 13:41:12 GMT
How much of your epiphany over Trotskyism has actually skewed your views to the extent that it colours your own interpretations? Bit like a former smoker who has to hate it so much that they become quite militant otherwise they can only blame themselves. Age is not a good barometer to life experience and wisdom. It is. That’s why you have to wait to 18 to vote, it’s why noncing kids is a thing regardless of consent. It’s why children aren’t allowed to make decisions. It’s why nearly every organisation, every political party, every business is run by people with experience. It’s why every society and culture on earth has looked to it’s elders for judgement and wisdom. Feel free to hand the reigns of power over to a bunch of kids. You’re in denial if you don’t think age is an indicator of experience and wisdom. It’s almost the literal definition of it, almost . Sure, anomalies exist. But even for young and bright minds, they will STILL be better informed at 40 than 20. Stop deliberately misinterpretating what I wrote, I am not suggesting putting kids in charge. I am pointing out that it's life experience that is key. Longevity allows for that but it doesn't mean it trumps those who are younger. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 1, 2023 13:43:24 GMT
Talk about missing the point ! 😂 Regardless of any outcome, you would still argue it’s been a disaster. People don’t like admitting they were wrong and lied to, so they? Let’s be honest, your point of view took zero effort or balls. It was the easy option to keep the status quo and (gasp) not be accused of racism. It was the corporate choice, the choice the government sanctioned (and even wrote to every household to advise them to do so, something so undemocratic it should be a de facto reason to oppose it on that basis alone). Let’s have a look at what project fear said: - Emergency budget within weeks of a leave vote. - 500K jobs lost. (We’ve now got a labour shortage, funny how you can have it both ways. If we had no labour shortage you’d say our jobs market is languishing. See how whichever route you go, remain has a pile of bollocks waiting for you!) - “the end of western civilisation as we know it” On the flip side we have 1 slogan on the bus which suggested “why not spend the £350M a week on the NHS instead” not a policy pledge, a suggestion. But, once again, this suddenly becomes apparently a cast iron Guarantee. When all is lost, when none of it came true, the last refuge is to call racism (when free movement for what are almost entirely white people at the expense of brown people is what the deal was) I come in here and despite none of project fears nonsense transpiring, the kool aid from the graun and evening standard has been drunk. People never, ever admit they were wrong. If Germany and Europe was a pile of ashes from a Russian war (as may still happen) there will still be yatton claiming a pile of ashes is a better deal than a 0.1% adjustment to GDP. Your last point won't happen and even if it did, it would still affect us. |
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Post by oldie on Mar 1, 2023 14:10:51 GMT
How much of your epiphany over Trotskyism has actually skewed your views to the extent that it colours your own interpretations? Bit like a former smoker who has to hate it so much that they become quite militant otherwise they can only blame themselves. Age is not a good barometer to life experience and wisdom. It is. That’s why you have to wait to 18 to vote, it’s why noncing kids is a thing regardless of consent. It’s why children aren’t allowed to make decisions. It’s why nearly every organisation, every political party, every business is run by people with experience. It’s why every society and culture on earth has looked to it’s elders for judgement and wisdom. Feel free to hand the reigns of power over to a bunch of kids. You’re in denial if you don’t think age is an indicator of experience and wisdom. It’s almost the literal definition of it, almost . Sure, anomalies exist. But even for young and bright minds, they will STILL be better informed at 40 than 20. Way to simplistic. The natural extension of the point you are arguing is to raise the age of eligibility to vote. Is that what you want? Surely then we would have to raise the age of consent in sexual matters, or indeed to join the arm forces. Surely. On a broader point about political orientation in education. You completely miss context, context of events after 1900. If, as most of us were/are, your family background was working class (hate that term, but for the sake of point) then Upto 1939 as a young person you were either canon or factory fodder. For the vast majority there were not many other avenues. It was after 1945 and two devastating wars that people said "enough" and elected what you GoA would define as a "lefty" government, rather sensationally booting Churchill. What happened then over the next 15 years was the creation of a social security "net", NHS and expansion of higher education for all. It was us, the baby boomers (me born 1952) who benefitted from all that. Then came the 60s. Becoming more knowledgeable than our mother's and father's (a gross generalisation I accept) led to an eye opening reality of life in the UK prior to the wars, a lack of acceptance the restrictive social norms of our predecessors. This wasn't easily defined as left wing, although plenty war the T shirt. This was more anarchic, about tearing down the structures of at best a paternalistic society, at worse a feudalistic one. Then we went to work. And discovered money, money our parents could only dream of. Out of that desire grew the technology we take for granted today. We preached liberalism whilst carrying on brutalising non developed nations and eventually burning, literally, the world. And here we are, that liberal ideology born of public services enhancement, left withered on the vine. The revenge of the laissez faire capitalists, those that worship(ed) at the alter of Friedrich Hayek, led by Thatcher and Reagan in the 80s, complete. Our public services are decimated, too many of our kids poorly educated and in ghettos of economic deprivation. So no, the baby boomer generation is not guilt free, we are guilty as charged. The young people are not indoctrinated in some cult like left wing ideology as you contend, they are bereft of any ideology at all, apart from single issue protests. Finally, to put the boot in before we die, we voted to deprive the young generation of economic vitality, the social freedoms, the very thing we worked for and voted for in the early 1970s, by voting for the catastrophe that is Brexit. Against the very wishes of those, younger people, we have condemned that future to. If you could transport me from 1970 as I was then, to today, I wouldn't be defined as "left wing" but I would be seeking to tear overthrow the current political establishment. What's to lose? |
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Post by yattongas on Mar 1, 2023 15:15:03 GMT
Talk about missing the point ! 😂 Regardless of any outcome, you would still argue it’s been a disaster. People don’t like admitting they were wrong and lied to, so they? Let’s be honest, your point of view took zero effort or balls. It was the easy option to keep the status quo and (gasp) not be accused of racism. It was the corporate choice, the choice the government sanctioned (and even wrote to every household to advise them to do so, something so undemocratic it should be a de facto reason to oppose it on that basis alone). Let’s have a look at what project fear said: - Emergency budget within weeks of a leave vote. - 500K jobs lost. (We’ve now got a labour shortage, funny how you can have it both ways. If we had no labour shortage you’d say our jobs market is languishing. See how whichever route you go, remain has a pile of bollocks waiting for you!) - “the end of western civilisation as we know it” On the flip side we have 1 slogan on the bus which suggested “why not spend the £350M a week on the NHS instead” not a policy pledge, a suggestion. But, once again, this suddenly becomes apparently a cast iron Guarantee. When all is lost, when none of it came true, the last refuge is to call racism (when free movement for what are almost entirely white people at the expense of brown people is what the deal was) I come in here and despite none of project fears nonsense transpiring, the kool aid from the graun and evening standard has been drunk. People never, ever admit they were wrong. If Germany and Europe was a pile of ashes from a Russian war (as may still happen) there will still be yatton claiming a pile of ashes is a better deal than a 0.1% adjustment to GDP. Another nonsense word salad. I listened to the experts ( that you were told to ignore by Gove et al ) in various industries and how it would be a bad idea. It’s being proven with every passing day that it was a sh** idea. I can’t quite work you out though , are you just a wind up merchant or are you really that thick that you think it’s going well ? You prove your last paragraph perfectly , you know you were wrong to vote for it but you just can’t admit that fact can you ? 😂 Ps Yes of course racism was a factor you complete . 🙄 |
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 2, 2023 8:54:18 GMT
It is. That’s why you have to wait to 18 to vote, it’s why noncing kids is a thing regardless of consent. It’s why children aren’t allowed to make decisions. It’s why nearly every organisation, every political party, every business is run by people with experience. It’s why every society and culture on earth has looked to it’s elders for judgement and wisdom. Feel free to hand the reigns of power over to a bunch of kids. You’re in denial if you don’t think age is an indicator of experience and wisdom. It’s almost the literal definition of it, almost . Sure, anomalies exist. But even for young and bright minds, they will STILL be better informed at 40 than 20. Way to simplistic. The natural extension of the point you are arguing is to raise the age of eligibility to vote. Is that what you want? Surely then we would have to raise the age of consent in sexual matters, or indeed to join the arm forces. Surely. On a broader point about political orientation in education. You completely miss context, context of events after 1900. If, as most of us were/are, your family background was working class (hate that term, but for the sake of point) then Upto 1939 as a young person you were either canon or factory fodder. For the vast majority there were not many other avenues. It was after 1945 and two devastating wars that people said "enough" and elected what you GoA would define as a "lefty" government, rather sensationally booting Churchill. What happened then over the next 15 years was the creation of a social security "net", NHS and expansion of higher education for all. It was us, the baby boomers (me born 1952) who benefitted from all that. Then came the 60s. Becoming more knowledgeable than our mother's and father's (a gross generalisation I accept) led to an eye opening reality of life in the UK prior to the wars, a lack of acceptance the restrictive social norms of our predecessors. This wasn't easily defined as left wing, although plenty war the T shirt. This was more anarchic, about tearing down the structures of at best a paternalistic society, at worse a feudalistic one. Then we went to work. And discovered money, money our parents could only dream of. Out of that desire grew the technology we take for granted today. We preached liberalism whilst carrying on brutalising non developed nations and eventually burning, literally, the world. And here we are, that liberal ideology born of public services enhancement, left withered on the vine. The revenge of the laissez faire capitalists, those that worship(ed) at the alter of Friedrich Hayek, led by Thatcher and Reagan in the 80s, complete. Our public services are decimated, too many of our kids poorly educated and in ghettos of economic deprivation. So no, the baby boomer generation is not guilt free, we are guilty as charged. The young people are not indoctrinated in some cult like left wing ideology as you contend, they are bereft of any ideology at all, apart from single issue protests. Finally, to put the boot in before we die, we voted to deprive the young generation of economic vitality, the social freedoms, the very thing we worked for and voted for in the early 1970s, by voting for the catastrophe that is Brexit. Against the very wishes of those, younger people, we have condemned that future to. If you could transport me from 1970 as I was then, to today, I wouldn't be defined as "left wing" but I would be seeking to tear overthrow the current political establishment. What's to lose? Extremist babble. The reason for the world as it was before the wars was because of the fundamental nature of the work involved. You can’t have a particularly nice working environment down a mine or a shipyard. The greatest advances in living standard in this country came after the 1980s and the readjustment of this country out of the darkness of unionised and corrupt nationalised industries and into the light of a modern, service based economy. The state pension at inception was a pittance. It was designed to pay for about 8 years prior to death at a younger age. It was not the land of milk and honey. As for brutalising the world, compared to what, or who? The Soviet Union? That was the alternative. In what right mind would you see that as a viable alternative? If you think the youth are without ideology and young kids come to the convulsions they have as they are a natural state of things you are so far mistaken then you might as well stick your head back in your guardian and dribble into that to at least improve the hygiene of this thread by not letting it dribble all over here. It is complete and utter indoctrination. I had you fkers do It to me and had I not broken free I’d be a broke, bitter and resentful loser asking the world to solve my problems rather than solving them myself. Turning generations against their elders is reprehensible. Key tactic of every leftist movement in history, and you should be ashamed to denigrate what was a far better generation compared to the bed wetting, spoiled narcissists we have today. I’m one of them sadly and it’s extremely bad company to keep. The boomers have done the youth a solid and time will tell on this. Wait until these kids get to have mortgages and see how their living standard will be reduced by cultish leftist politics and they will come to exactly the same conclusions as me. If your ideology stood on its feet you wouldn’t need to get to the kids early nor desecrate the achievements of their parents. After the war came down they went squarely for the institutions because it became clear that the public wouldn’t never buy it. The sad fact now is those who remember, are now dying off and we are making the same mistakes all over again |
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Post by yattongas on Mar 2, 2023 9:30:23 GMT
Way to simplistic. The natural extension of the point you are arguing is to raise the age of eligibility to vote. Is that what you want? Surely then we would have to raise the age of consent in sexual matters, or indeed to join the arm forces. Surely. On a broader point about political orientation in education. You completely miss context, context of events after 1900. If, as most of us were/are, your family background was working class (hate that term, but for the sake of point) then Upto 1939 as a young person you were either canon or factory fodder. For the vast majority there were not many other avenues. It was after 1945 and two devastating wars that people said "enough" and elected what you GoA would define as a "lefty" government, rather sensationally booting Churchill. What happened then over the next 15 years was the creation of a social security "net", NHS and expansion of higher education for all. It was us, the baby boomers (me born 1952) who benefitted from all that. Then came the 60s. Becoming more knowledgeable than our mother's and father's (a gross generalisation I accept) led to an eye opening reality of life in the UK prior to the wars, a lack of acceptance the restrictive social norms of our predecessors. This wasn't easily defined as left wing, although plenty war the T shirt. This was more anarchic, about tearing down the structures of at best a paternalistic society, at worse a feudalistic one. Then we went to work. And discovered money, money our parents could only dream of. Out of that desire grew the technology we take for granted today. We preached liberalism whilst carrying on brutalising non developed nations and eventually burning, literally, the world. And here we are, that liberal ideology born of public services enhancement, left withered on the vine. The revenge of the laissez faire capitalists, those that worship(ed) at the alter of Friedrich Hayek, led by Thatcher and Reagan in the 80s, complete. Our public services are decimated, too many of our kids poorly educated and in ghettos of economic deprivation. So no, the baby boomer generation is not guilt free, we are guilty as charged. The young people are not indoctrinated in some cult like left wing ideology as you contend, they are bereft of any ideology at all, apart from single issue protests. Finally, to put the boot in before we die, we voted to deprive the young generation of economic vitality, the social freedoms, the very thing we worked for and voted for in the early 1970s, by voting for the catastrophe that is Brexit. Against the very wishes of those, younger people, we have condemned that future to. If you could transport me from 1970 as I was then, to today, I wouldn't be defined as "left wing" but I would be seeking to tear overthrow the current political establishment. What's to lose? Extremist babble. The reason for the world as it was before the wars was because of the fundamental nature of the work involved. You can’t have a particularly nice working environment down a mine or a shipyard. The greatest advances in living standard in this country came after the 1980s and the readjustment of this country out of the darkness of unionised and corrupt nationalised industries and into the light of a modern, service based economy. The state pension at inception was a pittance. It was designed to pay for about 8 years prior to death at a younger age. It was not the land of milk and honey. As for brutalising the world, compared to what, or who? The Soviet Union? That was the alternative. In what right mind would you see that as a viable alternative? If you think the youth are without ideology and young kids come to the convulsions they have as they are a natural state of things you are so far mistaken then you might as well stick your head back in your guardian and dribble into that to at least improve the hygiene of this thread by not letting it dribble all over here. It is complete and utter indoctrination. I had you fkers do It to me and had I not broken free I’d be a broke, bitter and resentful loser asking the world to solve my problems rather than solving them myself. Turning generations against their elders is reprehensible. Key tactic of every leftist movement in history, and you should be ashamed to denigrate what was a far better generation compared to the bed wetting, spoiled narcissists we have today. I’m one of them sadly and it’s extremely bad company to keep. The boomers have done the youth a solid and time will tell on this. Wait until these kids get to have mortgages and see how their living standard will be reduced by cultish leftist politics and they will come to exactly the same conclusions as me. If your ideology stood on its feet you wouldn’t need to get to the kids early nor desecrate the achievements of their parents. After the war came down they went squarely for the institutions because it became clear that the public wouldn’t never buy it. The sad fact now is those who remember, are now dying off and we are making the same mistakes all over again The reason why we went from the sick man of Europe in the 70s and flourished in the 80s was the single market 🙄 |
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Post by oldie on Mar 2, 2023 10:30:08 GMT
Way to simplistic. The natural extension of the point you are arguing is to raise the age of eligibility to vote. Is that what you want? Surely then we would have to raise the age of consent in sexual matters, or indeed to join the arm forces. Surely. On a broader point about political orientation in education. You completely miss context, context of events after 1900. If, as most of us were/are, your family background was working class (hate that term, but for the sake of point) then Upto 1939 as a young person you were either canon or factory fodder. For the vast majority there were not many other avenues. It was after 1945 and two devastating wars that people said "enough" and elected what you GoA would define as a "lefty" government, rather sensationally booting Churchill. What happened then over the next 15 years was the creation of a social security "net", NHS and expansion of higher education for all. It was us, the baby boomers (me born 1952) who benefitted from all that. Then came the 60s. Becoming more knowledgeable than our mother's and father's (a gross generalisation I accept) led to an eye opening reality of life in the UK prior to the wars, a lack of acceptance the restrictive social norms of our predecessors. This wasn't easily defined as left wing, although plenty war the T shirt. This was more anarchic, about tearing down the structures of at best a paternalistic society, at worse a feudalistic one. Then we went to work. And discovered money, money our parents could only dream of. Out of that desire grew the technology we take for granted today. We preached liberalism whilst carrying on brutalising non developed nations and eventually burning, literally, the world. And here we are, that liberal ideology born of public services enhancement, left withered on the vine. The revenge of the laissez faire capitalists, those that worship(ed) at the alter of Friedrich Hayek, led by Thatcher and Reagan in the 80s, complete. Our public services are decimated, too many of our kids poorly educated and in ghettos of economic deprivation. So no, the baby boomer generation is not guilt free, we are guilty as charged. The young people are not indoctrinated in some cult like left wing ideology as you contend, they are bereft of any ideology at all, apart from single issue protests. Finally, to put the boot in before we die, we voted to deprive the young generation of economic vitality, the social freedoms, the very thing we worked for and voted for in the early 1970s, by voting for the catastrophe that is Brexit. Against the very wishes of those, younger people, we have condemned that future to. If you could transport me from 1970 as I was then, to today, I wouldn't be defined as "left wing" but I would be seeking to tear overthrow the current political establishment. What's to lose? Extremist babble. The reason for the world as it was before the wars was because of the fundamental nature of the work involved. You can’t have a particularly nice working environment down a mine or a shipyard. The greatest advances in living standard in this country came after the 1980s and the readjustment of this country out of the darkness of unionised and corrupt nationalised industries and into the light of a modern, service based economy. The state pension at inception was a pittance. It was designed to pay for about 8 years prior to death at a younger age. It was not the land of milk and honey. As for brutalising the world, compared to what, or who? The Soviet Union? That was the alternative. In what right mind would you see that as a viable alternative? If you think the youth are without ideology and young kids come to the convulsions they have as they are a natural state of things you are so far mistaken then you might as well stick your head back in your guardian and dribble into that to at least improve the hygiene of this thread by not letting it dribble all over here. It is complete and utter indoctrination. I had you fkers do It to me and had I not broken free I’d be a broke, bitter and resentful loser asking the world to solve my problems rather than solving them myself. Turning generations against their elders is reprehensible. Key tactic of every leftist movement in history, and you should be ashamed to denigrate what was a far better generation compared to the bed wetting, spoiled narcissists we have today. I’m one of them sadly and it’s extremely bad company to keep. The boomers have done the youth a solid and time will tell on this. Wait until these kids get to have mortgages and see how their living standard will be reduced by cultish leftist politics and they will come to exactly the same conclusions as me. If your ideology stood on its feet you wouldn’t need to get to the kids early nor desecrate the achievements of their parents. After the war came down they went squarely for the institutions because it became clear that the public wouldn’t never buy it. The sad fact now is those who remember, are now dying off and we are making the same mistakes all over again "The reason for the world as it was before the wars was because of the fundamental nature of the work involved. You can’t have a particularly nice working environment down a mine or a shipyard." Exactly Factory fodder as I defined it. "The greatest advances in living standard in this country came after the 1980s and the readjustment of this country out of the darkness of unionised and corrupt nationalised industries and into the light of a modern, service based economy." Really. Tell that to the industrial areas of the north. Where the loss of long standing employment was not replaced by the sunny uplands of "modern, serviced based economy" but by unemployment and deprivation. At the same time as Thatcher took a knife to public services and fatally undermined local democracy by centralising control of funding. "As for brutalising the world, compared to what, or who? The Soviet Union? That was the alternative. In what right mind would you see that as a viable alternative? " Classic "whataboutery". Who mentioned the Soviet Union? Not me. Choosing truth is not predicated upon choosing an example from another country. Is it? "If you think the youth are without ideology and young kids come to the convulsions they have as they are a natural state of things you are so far mistaken then you might as well stick your head back in your guardian and dribble into that to at least improve the hygiene of this thread by not letting it dribble all over here." In your unfounded opinion, expressed in a manner which lays our education system bare. (On the presumption you received your education in the UK) "Turning generations against their elders is reprehensible. Key tactic of every leftist movement in history, and you should be ashamed to denigrate what was a far better generation compared to the bed wetting, spoiled narcissists we have today. I’m one of them sadly and it’s extremely bad company to keep." I was defining my generation. A generation that I lived in detail. The rest of that is a rambling diatribe without reference, evidence, foundation and even less knowledge. Knowledge born of education or experience. Excuse me if I get this wrong but am I correct in thinking you are in your forties or younger? If so, for reference, I have two son's. Aged 43 and 48. If they expressed their opinions in the manner that you do I would be embarrassed. Fortunately they do not and they do not always agree with me. "If your ideology stood on its feet you wouldn’t need to get to the kids early nor desecrate the achievements of their parents. After the war came down they went squarely for the institutions because it became clear that the public wouldn’t never buy it. The sad fact now is those who remember, are now dying off and we are making the same mistakes all over again[/quote]" Has anyone any idea what this actually translates as? It reads like a Mark Francois critique of economic policy. Incoherent and semi literate. |
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