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Post by playtowin on Feb 3, 2023 9:55:06 GMT
That has to come from the club rather than the manager though. Any manager knows a job is usually only a few years long. So the choice of an extra half million on the first team or finance young players for another managers benefit is only going one way. I agree, which is why I think it's always a good idea having a director of football type of figure at a club with experience and knowledge of the game, who is independent from the manager, looking out for the best interests of the club as a whole. True. However what happens when a manager is forced to use players from this kind of set up. The manager may feel they are not good enough or experienced enough or the right type of player. The manager might prefer to bring in their own players. Its a tricky one as failure on the pitch and the manager can point directly back at the club with the blame. Making sacking very costly. Didnt Brentford scrap all their young player teams. Instead buying in finished articles. Was that for 1st team or into a under23s i cant recall. Maybe a financed under 23s might signal an end to the other youth teams ??
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Post by kruger on Feb 3, 2023 9:59:24 GMT
Wael said it was the managers choice to get rid of the under 23s, as he wanted to put all of the money into the first team. I think it was coughlan that decided to get rid of it. It happened in 2021. Barton what is it with you ffs, you trying to wind people up or what?
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pirate
Forum Legend
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Post by pirate on Feb 3, 2023 10:07:01 GMT
I agree, which is why I think it's always a good idea having a director of football type of figure at a club with experience and knowledge of the game, who is independent from the manager, looking out for the best interests of the club as a whole. True. However what happens when a manager is forced to use players from this kind of set up. The manager may feel they are not good enough or experienced enough or the right type of player. The manager might prefer to bring in their own players. Its a tricky one as failure on the pitch and the manager can point directly back at the club with the blame. Making sacking very costly. Didnt Brentford scrap all their young player teams. Instead buying in finished articles. Was that for 1st team or into a under23s i cant recall. Maybe a financed under 23s might signal an end to the other youth teams ?? Brentford scrapped their youth teams in favour of having a development squad or B team model because under the current EPPP rules it wasn't deemed financial viable with the big clubs able to poach their best youngsters for peanuts. They focused on recruiting the best youngsters released from academies, the best up and coming promising youngsters from non-league and players from abroad (mostly Scandinavia where the owner Matthew Benham owned a club). You wouldn't force anyone on a manager, but would work closely in tandem together. If you are getting the recruitment right then a manager would surely welcome a talented young player to supplement the first team group. The DoF would ultimately be there to look out for the long term best interests of the club as a whole. For example, what structure is in place if and when Barton moves on?
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Marshy
Proper Gas
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Post by Marshy on Feb 3, 2023 10:11:16 GMT
It happened in 2021. Barton what is it with you ffs, you trying to wind people up or what? Don’t tell me it’s taken you this long to sus that out! 😂
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Post by kruger on Feb 3, 2023 10:15:04 GMT
what is it with you ffs, you trying to wind people up or what? Don’t tell me it’s taken you this long to sus that out! 😂 I try to bite my tongue I really do but some people mind, is he a Rovers fan or what because he isn't coming over as one
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Post by playtowin on Feb 3, 2023 10:23:13 GMT
True. However what happens when a manager is forced to use players from this kind of set up. The manager may feel they are not good enough or experienced enough or the right type of player. The manager might prefer to bring in their own players. Its a tricky one as failure on the pitch and the manager can point directly back at the club with the blame. Making sacking very costly. Didnt Brentford scrap all their young player teams. Instead buying in finished articles. Was that for 1st team or into a under23s i cant recall. Maybe a financed under 23s might signal an end to the other youth teams ?? Brentford scrapped their youth teams in favour of having a development squad or B team model because under the current EPPP rules it wasn't deemed financial viable with the big clubs able to poach their best youngsters for peanuts. They focused on recruiting the best youngsters released from academies, the best up and coming promising youngsters from non-league and players from abroad (mostly Scandinavia where the owner Matthew Benham owned a club). You wouldn't force anyone on a manager, but would work closely in tandem together. If you are getting the recruitment right then a manager would surely welcome a talented young player to supplement the first team group. The DoF would ultimately be there to look out for the long term best interests of the club as a whole. For example, what structure is in place if and when Barton moves on? So what happens if the manager doesnt want the players ? How many players breaking into the first team squad is considered value for money for such a system ? Sorry not expecting you to know these things or be compelled to answer. Just questions that arise in my mind.
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Post by wallywalters on Feb 3, 2023 10:27:06 GMT
True. However what happens when a manager is forced to use players from this kind of set up. The manager may feel they are not good enough or experienced enough or the right type of player. The manager might prefer to bring in their own players. Its a tricky one as failure on the pitch and the manager can point directly back at the club with the blame. Making sacking very costly. Didnt Brentford scrap all their young player teams. Instead buying in finished articles. Was that for 1st team or into a under23s i cant recall. Maybe a financed under 23s might signal an end to the other youth teams ?? Brentford scrapped their youth teams in favour of having a development squad or B team model because under the current EPPP rules it wasn't deemed financial viable with the big clubs able to poach their best youngsters for peanuts. They focused on recruiting the best youngsters released from academies, the best up and coming promising youngsters from non-league and players from abroad (mostly Scandinavia where the owner Matthew Benham owned a club). You wouldn't force anyone on a manager, but would work closely in tandem together. If you are getting the recruitment right then a manager would surely welcome a talented young player to supplement the first team group. The DoF would ultimately be there to look out for the long term best interests of the club as a whole. For example, what structure is in place if and when Barton moves on? I honestly don't see the point in our youth team. When was the last top class player brought through by us? Sinclair ? Any decent prospects we have either get hoovered up by the big clubs at 15/16 or or play a few games for us and fade out of the game or end up in league 2/ conference. Either that or city take them. City have brought through some fantastic players in the last few years. We can't compete with their finances and set up. I'd much rather take Brentfords approach and have a development squad.
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Post by oldie on Feb 3, 2023 10:38:43 GMT
Don’t tell me it’s taken you this long to sus that out! 😂 I try to bite my tongue I really do but some people mind, is he a Rovers fan or what because he isn't coming over as one I don't know, but I would wager a bet with you, that given my age I have been actively supporting this club longer than you. But I wouldn't play that card as it indicates a lack of ability to argue a point, something you have just indicated so well.
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Post by oldie on Feb 3, 2023 10:40:57 GMT
It happened in 2021. Barton What’s your point? That he is calling for an under 23 squad which he oversaw the disbanding of as part of the management team in 2021. Does that sound coherent to you?
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Post by kruger on Feb 3, 2023 10:43:04 GMT
I try to bite my tongue I really do but some people mind, is he a Rovers fan or what because he isn't coming over as one I don't know, but I would wager a bet with you, that given my age I have been actively supporting this club longer than you. But I wouldn't play that card as it indicates a lack of ability to argue a point, something you have just indicated so well. you're just a miserable person that has to moan about anything JB and in general it seems, I really don't care if you've been supporting them longer than me you probably have, just wish you'd come over that way, I've been going since 1979 by the way
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calcio
Reserve Team
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Post by calcio on Feb 3, 2023 10:43:57 GMT
2021 is not 2023, oldie.
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Post by mariobalotelli on Feb 3, 2023 11:00:02 GMT
That he is calling for an under 23 squad which he oversaw the disbanding of as part of the management team in 2021. Does that sound coherent to you? Please don't try to make a sensible point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2023 11:16:45 GMT
Right barrel of laughs on here again I see , fooking hell.
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Post by The Equaliser on Feb 3, 2023 11:39:42 GMT
“I’ve been following Rovers longer than you” gosh we really are scraping the barrel now 🤦🏾♀️
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Post by gashead1981 on Feb 3, 2023 11:54:29 GMT
That he is calling for an under 23 squad which he oversaw the disbanding of as part of the management team in 2021. Does that sound coherent to you? It's not as straightforward as that is it and it's totally disengenius to suggest otherwise. We were relegated in 2021 and with relegation there is financial consequences. For example the L1 prize money and solidatiry payments total £1.35m. In L2 that drops to £902k. Thats a deficit of nearly £450k before you factor in any other commercial losses you may incur. So choices have to be made about where money is spent and a development squad will probably take up around £250-£300k in salary for management and coaching plus the commitment of the central league fixtures versus can that money be spent on the first team and having a right good go at promotion. When you look at the teams in L2, I think only 3 have U23 set ups anyway and likely there will be a geographical advantage to them having one as opposed to it being a neccessity for their business model.
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Post by gashead1981 on Feb 3, 2023 11:55:18 GMT
That he is calling for an under 23 squad which he oversaw the disbanding of as part of the management team in 2021. Does that sound coherent to you? Please don't try to make a sensible point. I'm not sure that he has yet...?!
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Post by lastminutewinner on Feb 3, 2023 12:03:45 GMT
Haters gonna hate... yet Barton got us promotion in his first full season and we were talking play offs up until recently. Did pretty well at Fleetwood too. Has he actually had a bad season as a manager?
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pirate
Forum Legend
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Post by pirate on Feb 3, 2023 12:04:50 GMT
Brentford scrapped their youth teams in favour of having a development squad or B team model because under the current EPPP rules it wasn't deemed financial viable with the big clubs able to poach their best youngsters for peanuts. They focused on recruiting the best youngsters released from academies, the best up and coming promising youngsters from non-league and players from abroad (mostly Scandinavia where the owner Matthew Benham owned a club). You wouldn't force anyone on a manager, but would work closely in tandem together. If you are getting the recruitment right then a manager would surely welcome a talented young player to supplement the first team group. The DoF would ultimately be there to look out for the long term best interests of the club as a whole. For example, what structure is in place if and when Barton moves on? So what happens if the manager doesnt want the players ? How many players breaking into the first team squad is considered value for money for such a system ? Sorry not expecting you to know these things or be compelled to answer. Just questions that arise in my mind. If the manager doesn't want the players then he doesn't use the players, but if they are acting in unison and the recruitment is right then there shouldn't be too many issues. I don't know how you would quantify value for money, but a club like Wycombe are are making it work by recruiting from clubs as diverse as Man Utd u21s to Woodford Town, Loughborough Uni side, Worthing, AFC Sudbury and Brockenhurst, resulting in first team players like Chris Forino and record sales like Anis Mehmeti. If they can make it work, so can we.
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Post by SleepyGas on Feb 3, 2023 12:24:13 GMT
Revealing Unless new loan goalkeeper Balcombe does not play in the first three matches after signing. Rovers will have to play Brentford a substantial loan fee. So Morecambe. MK Dons and Lincoln he will be starting. He also revealed he does not get paid enough and he finances some of the backroom staff from his own pocket. Also said players agreed won't pay gasheads travelling expenses for the ill fated trip to Morecambe. He was glad January window is over and keeping Collins & Coburn was pleasing (No firm bids for Collins) but hinted this Summer Collins will probably consider enhancing his career elsewhere. Find that hard to believe, why would he agree to that condition when we are not exactly short of keepers, am skeptic about the whole thing. 2 more matches like his first and we will be looking over our shoulders at relegation. It is a very strange clause. I guess I can understand Brentford requesting it.. the last thing they would want is for him to go from getting games at Crawley to go to us and sit on the bench - but there are other clauses they can put in to stipulate playing time. Never heard of a "must play first 3 matches" rule (but my experience in this field is largely based on football management games ). I suppose this clause forces the manager to whom the player is loaned to get a good look at the keeper before making a decision on who pick going forward.. to prevent situations arising where the loan player has a stinker of a debut (eg. shipping 5 goals) and losing his place and with it his confidence. A chance for him to redeem himself now. The question I have is why Barton chose to announce this clause to the media? I don't imagine opposition teams plan their tactics too much around who is in goal for us - but still.. Balcombe already had fans singing Belshaw at him in the last game - he knows he has replaced a fan favourite and now he knows that the fans know he is only starting because of a clause in his loan agreement. You wonder what the psychological effects of that will have on him going into the game tomorrow? Especially after conceding 5 goals on his debut. The whole thing seems messy to me.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Feb 3, 2023 12:42:25 GMT
That has to come from the club rather than the manager though. Any manager knows a job is usually only a few years long. So the choice of an extra half million on the first team or finance young players for another managers benefit is only going one way. I agree, which is why I think it's always a good idea having a director of football type of figure at a club with experience and knowledge of the game, who is independent from the manager, looking out for the best interests of the club as a whole. Isn’t the good colonel that, all but in title ? That’s how it comes across, to me
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