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Post by oldie on Jan 14, 2024 9:58:32 GMT
As painful as it is to read an article by the Daily Express, the report from Oxford University actually said "Dr Aseem Malhotra, a leading cardiologist said: “The most common cause of excess deaths relate to the heart and circulatory system. These have many causes that may interact. Eighty percent of this is linked to lifestyle and environmental factors, such as worsening diet, sedentary lifestyles and stress which we know happened during lockdowns.” Adverse reactions to the MRNA Covid vaccine could also have played a part, he said." COULD It is about time you stopped posting up false information GH79, stop deliberately mis interpreting reports and data. This sort of behaviour goes beyond stupidity. Don’t bully him 😂😂 |
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Post by supergas on Jan 14, 2024 10:22:36 GMT
...there *were* elephants in the room but as the article points out there were reasons for that, and some people made decisions that affected them later.... |
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Post by gashead79 on Jan 16, 2024 7:02:52 GMT
I haven't had the latest jab or the one last year. I queued up and took them in previous years because it seemed the sensible and public spirited thing to do at the time, and maybe the collective action did save many lives. Maybe it didn't. But if it prevented me and my family catching COVID it seemed then that it was right. Obviously there were risks with a fast tracked vaccine, but three years down the line I still haven't seen any convincing evidence that taking the jab was statistically harmful. However I now feel the risk from COVID has dropped to that of a nasty cold or maybe flu, and the balance between taking a drug and riding it out has shifted. I cannot understand the mindset of those who refused to toe the line back in 2020/21. None of us knew what was happening then. We relied on good faith and good advice, and even it was misplaced, it was the right thing to do. Fair post. The bit about preventing you or your family catching covid is obviously a huge flaw though.. As for the last paragraph. The country lost around 50k healthcare workers and was about to fire a huge number of NHS staff through a mandatory vaccination programme which they U turned on. Ask those guys-I've asked a few. It is perfectly OK not to understand other people's mindset on certain things, but to then suggest it might have been misplaced good faith is an interesting observation. |
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Post by gashead79 on Jan 16, 2024 7:29:16 GMT
As painful as it is to read an article by the Daily Express, the report from Oxford University actually said "Dr Aseem Malhotra, a leading cardiologist said: “The most common cause of excess deaths relate to the heart and circulatory system. These have many causes that may interact. Eighty percent of this is linked to lifestyle and environmental factors, such as worsening diet, sedentary lifestyles and stress which we know happened during lockdowns.” Adverse reactions to the MRNA Covid vaccine could also have played a part, he said." COULD It is about time you stopped posting up false information GH79, stop deliberately mis interpreting reports and data. This sort of behaviour goes beyond stupidity. Don’t bully him Jokes about bullying, cancer and crack..cool. Your man extracts a quite from Malhotra, one of the loudest anti vaccine voices. If you can't read between the lines of what that guy says then it's deliberate naivety. Plus, it's a short quote so perhaps there was more.. So we are going to accept that 50k more people than the pre covid average have died from lifestyle and environmental factors? The inclusion of vax side effects as 'could' gets brushed under the carpet? Oh dear. It's in plain sight for me. During 20/21 our beloved media were scouring the country looking for 'previously fit and healthy' individuals who had succumbed to the virus. Now, we have lots of people in this category dying and there's no headlines? The average age of covid mortality was 82..what's the life expectancy in the UK? |
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Post by gashead79 on Jan 16, 2024 7:38:03 GMT
...there *were* elephants in the room but as the article points out there were reasons for that, and some people made decisions that affected them later.... The elephant in the room is the side effects from the drugs. It will take time for the data to present, but its coming. The fact that AZ was withdrawn tells us that there are thresholds to the safety of these things. Many people are talking about it. I'll admit that depending on your social circles or browser cookies, you'll have different conversations, but there's alot of issues out there. My wife is hearing about problems with conception and pregnancy. The excess death figures. Sports people dropping unusually.. |
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Post by oldie on Jan 16, 2024 14:07:31 GMT
Ummmm....it's a conspiracy I tell you😂 "Licensed COVID-19 vaccines have been shown in clinical trials to be causally effective against infection, hospitalisation, and death, and have been associated with a reduction in adverse COVID-19 outcomes in observational epidemiological studies.8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 For example, a study from Israel found vaccine effectiveness of 76% (95% CI 72–79) against COVID-19 hospitalisation and 77% (70–83) against death 14–21 days after receipt of the first dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine, rising to 98% (98–99) 14 days or more after a second dose of BNT162b2.13 A study in England found vaccine effectiveness of three doses relative to two doses of 85–95%.14 For long-term care residents, receipt of a fourth vaccine dose was associated with strong protection of 40% (24–52) against severe COVID-19 outcomes compared with those who received a third dose 84 days or more previously.15 The Oxford-AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine was not routinely used in the UK beyond the first and second doses." "There is now the need to build on this work by better understanding barriers to vaccination, particularly in the subpopulations identified as less likely to be fully vaccinated and to formulate health policy and public health interventions aiming to improve coverage. This could, for example, include the need to tackle vaccine misinformation in a more direct fashion, and to continue to diversify the use of champions to support public messaging and the range of community-based centres offering vaccinations. There is also an opportunity to build on this unique UK-wide whole-population data to answer other questions relating to endemic infectious diseases and major pressures facing the NHS, including, for example, the post-pandemic waiting list backlog and annual winter pressures," Full report here www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02467-4/fulltextNot someone's wife chatting to a mate, not some bloke down the gymn. But data driven analysis. There you go |
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Post by gashead79 on Jan 17, 2024 7:18:03 GMT
Since I believe that the covid campaign was a very well organised scam. I am less likely to believe 'official' information from these experts, politicians and journalists who give out their advice.
Peer reviewed, independent, senior lecturer and esteemed govt advisors, etc, are just the language that big pharma has advised the outlets to use to convince us imo.(for covid specific, not all medical advice)
I'm sure there's merit in there but tbh, I'd rather hear from the manager of the gym or my wife, or other real people who have actual accounts of what is happening on the ground. Stats, studies etc are often sponsored. Numbers can be stacked to suit a narrative. Data can be manipulated and presented in certain ways-I do it myself!
I've no issue with people following Govt advice since that is what we should do right? However, as I (and plenty others) have smelt a rat since day 1, I am less inclined to be onboard with it. Not wishing to go over old ground as my position is clear, but as things stand I am 100% certain that my views are in the right ballpark. I can't say that for the people who have 'toe'd the line' or done what they think is right sadly.
Do we really believe these manufacturers care about our health or are they driven by profit? Perhaps both but one of these has a bigger pull.
I didn't follow the Westminster speech yesterday but saw that Bridgen had 19 MPs attend his session. That is an improvement on the handful for the last one. Hopefully, for the benefit of all of us, we get some momentum and force the establishment to properly inform people what is going on with the excess deaths. Confidence in healthcare(jabs) is lower than it should be. Parents are starting to ignore the standard inoculation programme for school kids. This is potentially harmful but im sure pharma will be pleased..(I speak to other parents, so save time trying to dig out an expert or some peer reviewed peice by a PhD)
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Post by supergas on Jan 17, 2024 9:30:27 GMT
Since I believe that the covid campaign was a very well organised scam. I am less likely to believe 'official' information from these experts, politicians and journalists who give out their advice. Peer reviewed, independent, senior lecturer and esteemed govt advisors, etc, are just the language that big pharma has advised the outlets to use to convince us imo.(for covid specific, not all medical advice) I'm sure there's merit in there but tbh, I'd rather hear from the manager of the gym or my wife, or other real people who have actual accounts of what is happening on the ground. Stats, studies etc are often sponsored. Numbers can be stacked to suit a narrative. Data can be manipulated and presented in certain ways-I do it myself! I've no issue with people following Govt advice since that is what we should do right? However, as I (and plenty others) have smelt a rat since day 1, I am less inclined to be onboard with it. Not wishing to go over old ground as my position is clear, but as things stand I am 100% certain that my views are in the right ballpark. I can't say that for the people who have 'toe'd the line' or done what they think is right sadly. Do we really believe these manufacturers care about our health or are they driven by profit? Perhaps both but one of these has a bigger pull. I didn't follow the Westminster speech yesterday but saw that Bridgen had 19 MPs attend his session. That is an improvement on the handful for the last one. Hopefully, for the benefit of all of us, we get some momentum and force the establishment to properly inform people what is going on with the excess deaths. Confidence in healthcare(jabs) is lower than it should be. Parents are starting to ignore the standard inoculation programme for school kids. This is potentially harmful but im sure pharma will be pleased..(I speak to other parents, so save time trying to dig out an expert or some peer reviewed peice by a PhD) ...but what if the gym manager is mixing meds to bulk up? Maybe he likes to party at the weekend and dabbles in recreational drugs... ...he'd be unlikely to tell you about one or both but that is *not outside* the realms of possibility and *there is* scientific/peer-reviewed literature that would link one/the other/a combination of both to the symptoms you've described.... |
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Post by Gassy on Jan 17, 2024 12:38:33 GMT
Since I believe that the covid campaign was a very well organised scam. I am less likely to believe 'official' information from these experts, politicians and journalists who give out their advice. Peer reviewed, independent, senior lecturer and esteemed govt advisors, etc, are just the language that big pharma has advised the outlets to use to convince us imo.(for covid specific, not all medical advice) I'm sure there's merit in there but tbh, I'd rather hear from the manager of the gym or my wife, or other real people who have actual accounts of what is happening on the ground. Stats, studies etc are often sponsored. Numbers can be stacked to suit a narrative. Data can be manipulated and presented in certain ways-I do it myself! I've no issue with people following Govt advice since that is what we should do right? However, as I (and plenty others) have smelt a rat since day 1, I am less inclined to be onboard with it. Not wishing to go over old ground as my position is clear, but as things stand I am 100% certain that my views are in the right ballpark. I can't say that for the people who have 'toe'd the line' or done what they think is right sadly. Do we really believe these manufacturers care about our health or are they driven by profit? Perhaps both but one of these has a bigger pull. I didn't follow the Westminster speech yesterday but saw that Bridgen had 19 MPs attend his session. That is an improvement on the handful for the last one. Hopefully, for the benefit of all of us, we get some momentum and force the establishment to properly inform people what is going on with the excess deaths. Confidence in healthcare(jabs) is lower than it should be. Parents are starting to ignore the standard inoculation programme for school kids. This is potentially harmful but im sure pharma will be pleased..(I speak to other parents, so save time trying to dig out an expert or some peer reviewed peice by a PhD) ...but what if the gym manager is mixing meds to bulk up? Maybe he likes to party at the weekend and dabbles in recreational drugs... ...he'd be unlikely to tell you about one or both but that is *not outside* the realms of possibility and *there is* scientific/peer-reviewed literature that would link one/the other/a combination of both to the symptoms you've described.... The part I find baffling is the admittance that someone is "less likely to believe" official information from scientific experts, instead putting their faith in someone from the gym or their wife. Reminds me of this:  |
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Post by oldie on Jan 17, 2024 13:58:16 GMT
...but what if the gym manager is mixing meds to bulk up? Maybe he likes to party at the weekend and dabbles in recreational drugs... ...he'd be unlikely to tell you about one or both but that is *not outside* the realms of possibility and *there is* scientific/peer-reviewed literature that would link one/the other/a combination of both to the symptoms you've described.... The part I find baffling is the admittance that someone is "less likely to believe" official information from scientific experts, instead putting their faith in someone from the gym or their wife. Reminds me of this: Precisely It beggars belief that someone would actually say and believe what GH79 says. And to claim, again, that it was all scam. Well. |
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Post by aghast on Jan 17, 2024 21:59:00 GMT
Since I believe that the covid campaign was a very well organised scam. I am less likely to believe 'official' information from these experts, politicians and journalists who give out their advice. Peer reviewed, independent, senior lecturer and esteemed govt advisors, etc, are just the language that big pharma has advised the outlets to use to convince us imo.(for covid specific, not all medical advice) I'm sure there's merit in there but tbh, I'd rather hear from the manager of the gym or my wife, or other real people who have actual accounts of what is happening on the ground. Stats, studies etc are often sponsored. Numbers can be stacked to suit a narrative. Data can be manipulated and presented in certain ways-I do it myself! I've no issue with people following Govt advice since that is what we should do right? However, as I (and plenty others) have smelt a rat since day 1, I am less inclined to be onboard with it. Not wishing to go over old ground as my position is clear, but as things stand I am 100% certain that my views are in the right ballpark. I can't say that for the people who have 'toe'd the line' or done what they think is right sadly. Do we really believe these manufacturers care about our health or are they driven by profit? Perhaps both but one of these has a bigger pull. I didn't follow the Westminster speech yesterday but saw that Bridgen had 19 MPs attend his session. That is an improvement on the handful for the last one. Hopefully, for the benefit of all of us, we get some momentum and force the establishment to properly inform people what is going on with the excess deaths. Confidence in healthcare(jabs) is lower than it should be. Parents are starting to ignore the standard inoculation programme for school kids. This is potentially harmful but im sure pharma will be pleased..(I speak to other parents, so save time trying to dig out an expert or some peer reviewed peice by a PhD) What was the purpose of the scam? Who was behind it? Why did the government back it? Big pharma? China? The CIA? The World Economic Forum (they get blamed for most things)? You're sounding a bit ridiculous now. I can buy into the idea that the vaccinations were rushed through and not tested as rigorously as normal drugs but the notion that the whole world fell for a 'scam' makes you sound like an alarmist conspiracy theorist, and I know one or two of them very well indeed. The signs are there. |
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Post by gashead79 on Jan 17, 2024 23:35:05 GMT
Since I believe that the covid campaign was a very well organised scam. I am less likely to believe 'official' information from these experts, politicians and journalists who give out their advice. Peer reviewed, independent, senior lecturer and esteemed govt advisors, etc, are just the language that big pharma has advised the outlets to use to convince us imo.(for covid specific, not all medical advice) I'm sure there's merit in there but tbh, I'd rather hear from the manager of the gym or my wife, or other real people who have actual accounts of what is happening on the ground. Stats, studies etc are often sponsored. Numbers can be stacked to suit a narrative. Data can be manipulated and presented in certain ways-I do it myself! I've no issue with people following Govt advice since that is what we should do right? However, as I (and plenty others) have smelt a rat since day 1, I am less inclined to be onboard with it. Not wishing to go over old ground as my position is clear, but as things stand I am 100% certain that my views are in the right ballpark. I can't say that for the people who have 'toe'd the line' or done what they think is right sadly. Do we really believe these manufacturers care about our health or are they driven by profit? Perhaps both but one of these has a bigger pull. I didn't follow the Westminster speech yesterday but saw that Bridgen had 19 MPs attend his session. That is an improvement on the handful for the last one. Hopefully, for the benefit of all of us, we get some momentum and force the establishment to properly inform people what is going on with the excess deaths. Confidence in healthcare(jabs) is lower than it should be. Parents are starting to ignore the standard inoculation programme for school kids. This is potentially harmful but im sure pharma will be pleased..(I speak to other parents, so save time trying to dig out an expert or some peer reviewed peice by a PhD) What was the purpose of the scam? Who was behind it? Why did the government back it? Big pharma? China? The CIA? The World Economic Forum (they get blamed for most things)? You're sounding a bit ridiculous now. I can buy into the idea that the vaccinations were rushed through and not tested as rigorously as normal drugs but the notion that the whole world fell for a 'scam' makes you sound like an alarmist conspiracy theorist, and I know one or two of them very well indeed. The signs are there. I believe what I believe. You guys can continue with the snide remarks. It's not my role to convince anybody of anything but I'll happily post on the chat board. I see responses are selective one liners which are out of context, as usual. I don't have your answers but I'd sway towards big pharma. Huge money made and a very healthy pipeline created indeed. I dont know any conspiracy theorists, but acknowledge that's more language handed out by 'them' to shut down dissent or debate. Lump that in with antivaxer, covid denier, flat earther etc! All for doubting the plot and questioning things. |
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Post by supergas on Jan 18, 2024 1:59:19 GMT
I'm all for dissent and debate - it's how I learn things, it leads me to explore new ideas and research topics I didn't know a lot about before...
...the problem with a lot of the dissent and debate around Covid (and it's vaccinations) is that it was misleading and in many ways dangerous - and it's not the first time, we've seen similar with Ebola and Measles in recent years, HIV/Aids going back a bit further, etc etc...
Did this misinformation kill people? Almost certainly, and probably in far larger numbers than any vaccine side effects. So when I ask you to provide information to back up your claims, I know I'm unlikely to change your mind, and you're unlikely to provide evidence that will change mine. What I do want to do is make sure anyone reading this thread at any point now or later can make an informed decision about your claims, something most of us have done based on your lack of reliable supporting evidence.
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Post by gashead79 on Jan 18, 2024 7:02:28 GMT
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Post by gashead79 on Jan 18, 2024 7:16:31 GMT
I'm all for dissent and debate - it's how I learn things, it leads me to explore new ideas and research topics I didn't know a lot about before... ...the problem with a lot of the dissent and debate around Covid (and it's vaccinations) is that it was misleading and in many ways dangerous - and it's not the first time, we've seen similar with Ebola and Measles in recent years, HIV/Aids going back a bit further, etc etc... Did this misinformation kill people? Almost certainly, and probably in far larger numbers than any vaccine side effects. So when I ask you to provide information to back up your claims, I know I'm unlikely to change your mind, and you're unlikely to provide evidence that will change mine. What I do want to do is make sure anyone reading this thread at any point now or later can make an informed decision about your claims, something most of us have done based on your lack of reliable supporting evidence. Fair enough. My claims are my views(rather than claims, but that's detail) so no issue with you trying to act in other people's interests. I'm pretty sure readers can think for themselves though but whatever. The issue we have is that there was a shut out of what they called 'misinformation'. This prevented people and other experts with opposing ideas, solutions or suggestions from communication. There was a sort of Freudlike conditioning strategy imposed where people who doubted what was going on were whispering about it rather than letting others know through fear of being hissed at. I see this behaviour on here still. The other experts are labelled as loons, conspiracy theorists or dangers to society for questioning the narrative. Hardly free speech.. Any examples or info I share here is ridiculed by the handful of you, but I'm fully ok with it and understand why. Lastly, yes you won't change my mind, the chances of that are long gone and thinning by the day. Also, I'm not here to change the minds of others, but I do wonder why people are so flippant at times and refuse to engage their brains outside of what the yellow ticker tape tells them. Fortunately for them, some are realising that it was just a bizarre episode with some really odd rules, regs and behaviours! |
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Post by oldie on Jan 18, 2024 7:50:28 GMT
I'm all for dissent and debate - it's how I learn things, it leads me to explore new ideas and research topics I didn't know a lot about before... ...the problem with a lot of the dissent and debate around Covid (and it's vaccinations) is that it was misleading and in many ways dangerous - and it's not the first time, we've seen similar with Ebola and Measles in recent years, HIV/Aids going back a bit further, etc etc... Did this misinformation kill people? Almost certainly, and probably in far larger numbers than any vaccine side effects. So when I ask you to provide information to back up your claims, I know I'm unlikely to change your mind, and you're unlikely to provide evidence that will change mine. What I do want to do is make sure anyone reading this thread at any point now or later can make an informed decision about your claims, something most of us have done based on your lack of reliable supporting evidence. Fair enough. My claims are my views(rather than claims, but that's detail) so no issue with you trying to act in other people's interests. I'm pretty sure readers can think for themselves though but whatever. The issue we have is that there was a shut out of what they called 'misinformation'. This prevented people and other experts with opposing ideas, solutions or suggestions from communication. There was a sort of Freudlike conditioning strategy imposed where people who doubted what was going on were whispering about it rather than letting others know through fear of being hissed at. I see this behaviour on here still. The other experts are labelled as loons, conspiracy theorists or dangers to society for questioning the narrative. Hardly free speech.. Any examples or info I share here is ridiculed by the handful of you, but I'm fully ok with it and understand why. Lastly, yes you won't change my mind, the chances of that are long gone and thinning by the day. Also, I'm not here to change the minds of others, but I do wonder why people are so flippant at times and refuse to engage their brains outside of what the yellow ticker tape tells them. Fortunately for them, some are realising that it was just a bizarre episode with some really odd rules, regs and behaviours! And there you go again. Using language that you claim is being used against you. "but I do wonder why people are so flippant at times and refuse to engage their brains outside of what the yellow ticker tape tells them" Really. |
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Post by gashead79 on Jan 18, 2024 8:00:55 GMT
Fair enough. My claims are my views(rather than claims, but that's detail) so no issue with you trying to act in other people's interests. I'm pretty sure readers can think for themselves though but whatever. The issue we have is that there was a shut out of what they called 'misinformation'. This prevented people and other experts with opposing ideas, solutions or suggestions from communication. There was a sort of Freudlike conditioning strategy imposed where people who doubted what was going on were whispering about it rather than letting others know through fear of being hissed at. I see this behaviour on here still. The other experts are labelled as loons, conspiracy theorists or dangers to society for questioning the narrative. Hardly free speech.. Any examples or info I share here is ridiculed by the handful of you, but I'm fully ok with it and understand why. Lastly, yes you won't change my mind, the chances of that are long gone and thinning by the day. Also, I'm not here to change the minds of others, but I do wonder why people are so flippant at times and refuse to engage their brains outside of what the yellow ticker tape tells them. Fortunately for them, some are realising that it was just a bizarre episode with some really odd rules, regs and behaviours! And there you go again. Using language that you claim is being used against you. "but I do wonder why people are so flippant at times and refuse to engage their brains outside of what the yellow ticker tape tells them" Really. It's what happens though. People in my own family do it. See some simple rolling headline and run with it rather than asking why. |
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Post by gashead79 on Jan 18, 2024 8:05:45 GMT
A few hundred comments on this one from Malhotra. BBC news ran with it too, which is positive. Also a few extra MPs sat in on Bridgens talk which is good.
It only took 20 years for Fujitsu to be brought to the table so perhaps it'll be similar for Pfizer and Moderna?
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Post by oldie on Jan 18, 2024 8:13:01 GMT
And there you go again. Using language that you claim is being used against you. "but I do wonder why people are so flippant at times and refuse to engage their brains outside of what the yellow ticker tape tells them" Really. It's what happens though. People in my own family do it. See some simple rolling headline and run with it rather than asking why. In your opinion, whilst providing no evidence whatsoever to make your point let alone prove it. Nothing, just a constant stream of paranoia and references to conversations with one or two unknown people. Quite frankly this makes you sound ridiculous |
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Post by oldie on Jan 18, 2024 8:16:51 GMT
A few hundred comments on this one from Malhotra. BBC news ran with it too, which is positive. Also a few extra MPs sat in on Bridgens talk which is good. It only took 20 years for Fujitsu to be brought to the table so perhaps it'll be similar for Pfizer and Moderna? The in depth study and analysis of what has happened I already posted a link to. This bloke provides no such data. |
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