|
|
Post by supergas on Jan 18, 2024 9:49:09 GMT
A few hundred comments on this one from Malhotra. BBC news ran with it too, which is positive. Also a few extra MPs sat in on Bridgens talk which is good. It only took 20 years for Fujitsu to be brought to the table so perhaps it'll be similar for Pfizer and Moderna? The in depth study and analysis of what has happened I already posted a link to. This bloke provides no such data. If it wasn't such a serious topic it would be hilarious that he comes to his "...second burning question..." first (no idea what the 'first' one was), and that given the whole speech was about MNRA vaccines he read out "...MRA..." I don't normally mock those who make simple mistakes when speaking in public, but when they also provide no decent evidence to back up their claims, simple errors like this suggest they really don't know or don't understand their subject matter.... |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Jan 18, 2024 10:04:34 GMT
The in depth study and analysis of what has happened I already posted a link to. This bloke provides no such data. If it wasn't such a serious topic it would be hilarious that he comes to his "...second burning question..." first (no idea what the 'first' one was), and that given the whole speech was about MNRA vaccines he read out "...MRA..." I don't normally mock those who make simple mistakes when speaking in public, but when they also provide no decent evidence to back up their claims, simple errors like this suggest they really don't know or don't understand their subject matter.... Yes, absolutely |
|
|
|
Post by gashead79 on Jan 19, 2024 7:31:24 GMT
It's what happens though. People in my own family do it. See some simple rolling headline and run with it rather than asking why. In your opinion, whilst providing no evidence whatsoever to make your point let alone prove it. Nothing, just a constant stream of paranoia and references to conversations with one or two unknown people. Quite frankly this makes you sound ridiculous That's your opinion. I engage with plenty of people who might think your approach to all this is ridiculous. As for unknown people. How is this any different to your average reporter putting out a header about some random healthy person getting long covid etc? You read that and accept it. I'm telling you an account of someone I've spoken to which is contrary to your views and its "blah blah, yeah rite, random unknown bloke" lol, yet I'm ridiculous? Perhaps you should get away from your ipad, and try speaking to people on this matter? You might be surprised at what your hear. I can only assume by the way you engage me on this board, that you do not speak to many people in the flesh outside of your usual crew. There's diversity in opinions on covid. There's alot of regret for participating in the BS of lockdowns and getting jabbed. You probably need to speak to new people and listen rather than talk.. |
|
|
|
Post by gashead79 on Jan 19, 2024 7:35:18 GMT
The in depth study and analysis of what has happened I already posted a link to. This bloke provides no such data. If it wasn't such a serious topic it would be hilarious that he comes to his "...second burning question..." first (no idea what the 'first' one was), and that given the whole speech was about MNRA vaccines he read out "...MRA..." I don't normally mock those who make simple mistakes when speaking in public, but when they also provide no decent evidence to back up their claims, simple errors like this suggest they really don't know or don't understand their subject matter.... So we'll just disregard this then yeah? Since the speaker wasn't convincing under the spotlight? There'll be another debate on it in future so we'll have to see if the MPs take it mote seriously than you eh. I think its good that it being covered by MPs. The public need the alternative info. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Jan 19, 2024 11:30:04 GMT
In your opinion, whilst providing no evidence whatsoever to make your point let alone prove it. Nothing, just a constant stream of paranoia and references to conversations with one or two unknown people. Quite frankly this makes you sound ridiculous That's your opinion. I engage with plenty of people who might think your approach to all this is ridiculous. As for unknown people. How is this any different to your average reporter putting out a header about some random healthy person getting long covid etc? You read that and accept it. I'm telling you an account of someone I've spoken to which is contrary to your views and its "blah blah, yeah rite, random unknown bloke" lol, yet I'm ridiculous? Perhaps you should get away from your ipad, and try speaking to people on this matter? You might be surprised at what your hear. I can only assume by the way you engage me on this board, that you do not speak to many people in the flesh outside of your usual crew. There's diversity in opinions on covid. There's alot of regret for participating in the BS of lockdowns and getting jabbed. You probably need to speak to new people and listen rather than talk.. On the contrary I have friends in the medical profession who I discuss issues such as this. Plus my most recent reference point was the study published in The Lancet. I hear today that we, the UK has an outbreak of measles because of the decline vaccine coverage. This all started when another ridiculous person made wild claims about MMR. I wonder how many kids might die because of this? You happy with that? |
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on Jan 19, 2024 11:31:16 GMT
To paraphrase ‘the vaccine is top of the excess death list until proven otherwise’. No. That’s not how it works. In fact it’s the opposite of how it works. The vaccine can be top of the excess death list when proven, if ever. It’s like me saying “cheese causes the most excess deaths in children, until proven otherwise”. It’s absolute nonsense. As for Malhotra, I think it’s always worth listening to actual scientists. People interpret data differently. However, his views on diet and health have been criticised by British Heart Foundation as “misleading and wrong”, his views were also considered to be a danger to public health. The British diabetic association also said his suggested diets were some of the top ones to avoid. Interestingly, the British heart foundation give their experiences on the increased CVD since the pandemic here; www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/policy-and-public-affairs/excess-deaths-involving-cardiovascular-disease-an-analysisPersonally I’d rather trust the information from the British heart foundation, than my wife or mate from the gym. I’ve spoken to many people in real life too about Covid and the vaccines and it’s interesting, everyone’s healthy and happy. Funny the circles you end up in. |
|
|
|
Post by DrFaustus on Jan 19, 2024 21:25:33 GMT
Gassy, I'm not quoting the whole post as it gets messy. The BHF are a fine organisation and have been a source of help for me personally the last 18 months, so thank you. They (BHF) plainly have concerns about excess CVD deaths that can't be explained by "it was Covid".
|
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on Jan 20, 2024 1:34:17 GMT
Gassy, I'm not quoting the whole post as it gets messy. The BHF are a fine organisation and have been a source of help for me personally the last 18 months, so thank you. They (BHF) plainly have concerns about excess CVD deaths that can't be explained by "it was Covid". No doubt. I think there are many factors at play, beyond Covid or vaccines. But if it was the vaccines, wouldn’t the CVD excess deaths start rising from 2021, once the vaccines were administered? Actually once the vaccines were rolled out, CVD excess deaths dropped by 80%. And we’re supposed to think it’s the vaccines that are causing all the deaths/health problems? Here’s an analysis by BHF on this exact topic. I haven’t read the entire thing, but it seems to conclude and show evidence that the vaccine has saved the lives of those with CVD. www.bhf.org.uk/-/media/files/what-we-do/influencing-change/strengthening-health-and-care-systems/excess-deaths-involving-cvd/excess-deaths-involving-cvd-in-england_an-anlysis-and-explainer.pdf But as some say on here, why believe the official evidence? Why be a sheep when you can ask your mate at the gym what’s really happening on ground, what would the BHF know? |
|
|
|
Post by supergas on Jan 21, 2024 6:51:21 GMT
If it wasn't such a serious topic it would be hilarious that he comes to his "...second burning question..." first (no idea what the 'first' one was), and that given the whole speech was about MNRA vaccines he read out "...MRA..." I don't normally mock those who make simple mistakes when speaking in public, but when they also provide no decent evidence to back up their claims, simple errors like this suggest they really don't know or don't understand their subject matter.... So we'll just disregard this then yeah? Since the speaker wasn't convincing under the spotlight? There'll be another debate on it in future so we'll have to see if the MPs take it mote seriously than you eh. I think its good that it being covered by MPs. The public need the alternative info. The reason to disregard it is because of the lack of decent supporting evidence for his claims. Incidentally I've read the whole debate (not just the clipped video soundbite) and read more about the people and data he is referencing. Here's some background on two of the key people he's listening to... Professor Heneghan concluded during the height of the covid epidemic that "...the evidence shows that wearing masks in the community does not significantly reduce the rates of infection...." - a claim that was met with criticism by many other experts in the field (including Kamran Abbasi from the British Medical Journal) that he had made basic scientific errors misrepresenting a Danish randomized controlled trial and extrapolating data from a tiny subset to the population as a whole...Dr Aseem Malhotra (good book sales during Covid) has made multiple claims refuted by multiple experts for multiple reasons - Fullfact and AFP have labelled some of his claims as false and others as relying on unreliable research/flawed studies. The Editor of The Lancet (Richard Horton) noted that his unfounded claims get public attention because of his methods: ...but he's still lacking evidence for his claims - Frank Han (a paediatric cardiologist) went through Malhotra's 20 main claims and concluded the majority were unsupported by scientific evidence.... Bridgen during the debate himself acknowledges the difference between correlation and causation but then firmly supports evidence that almost certainly mixes them up... I think the debate was summarised well towards the end: A transcript of the full debate is here: Excess Death Trends Volume 743: debated on Tuesday 16 January 2024 |
|
|
|
Post by gashead79 on Jan 21, 2024 8:17:02 GMT
To paraphrase ‘the vaccine is top of the excess death list until proven otherwise’. No. That’s not how it works. In fact it’s the opposite of how it works. The vaccine can be top of the excess death list when proven, if ever. It’s like me saying “cheese causes the most excess deaths in children, until proven otherwise”. It’s absolute nonsense. As for Malhotra, I think it’s always worth listening to actual scientists. People interpret data differently. However, his views on diet and health have been criticised by British Heart Foundation as “misleading and wrong”, his views were also considered to be a danger to public health. The British diabetic association also said his suggested diets were some of the top ones to avoid. Interestingly, the British heart foundation give their experiences on the increased CVD since the pandemic here; www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/policy-and-public-affairs/excess-deaths-involving-cardiovascular-disease-an-analysisPersonally I’d rather trust the information from the British heart foundation, than my wife or mate from the gym. I’ve spoken to many people in real life too about Covid and the vaccines and it’s interesting, everyone’s healthy and happy. Funny the circles you end up in. This is exactly the correct approach btw. People should trust the information that they feel they can rely on until that trust is tested. I have found myself in a place where I dont really trust any of the organisations that have financial interests in the pandemic or the jabs. That ranges from GPs getting £ per jab to the media who are bought/influenced by industry. Interesting point on circles..I know plenty of people who have been jabbed and are fine too! Its not just here in the UK or even this chat board where you'll find people/me prodding the narrative. Portugal is apparently topping the European chart for excess deaths and the CHEGA party are asking for an investigation into potential links. www.portugalresident.com/chega-wants-investigation-into-possible-link-between-vaccines-and-portugals-record-number-of-excess-deaths/ |
|
|
|
Post by gashead79 on Jan 21, 2024 8:25:08 GMT
So we'll just disregard this then yeah? Since the speaker wasn't convincing under the spotlight? There'll be another debate on it in future so we'll have to see if the MPs take it mote seriously than you eh. I think its good that it being covered by MPs. The public need the alternative info. The reason to disregard it is because of the lack of decent supporting evidence for his claims. Incidentally I've read the whole debate (not just the clipped video soundbite) and read more about the people and data he is referencing. Here's some background on two of the key people he's listening to... Professor Heneghan concluded during the height of the covid epidemic that "...the evidence shows that wearing masks in the community does not significantly reduce the rates of infection...." - a claim that was met with criticism by many other experts in the field (including Kamran Abbasi from the British Medical Journal) that he had made basic scientific errors misrepresenting a Danish randomized controlled trial and extrapolating data from a tiny subset to the population as a whole...Dr Aseem Malhotra (good book sales during Covid) has made multiple claims refuted by multiple experts for multiple reasons - Fullfact and AFP have labelled some of his claims as false and others as relying on unreliable research/flawed studies. The Editor of The Lancet (Richard Horton) noted that his unfounded claims get public attention because of his methods: ...but he's still lacking evidence for his claims - Frank Han (a paediatric cardiologist) went through Malhotra's 20 main claims and concluded the majority were unsupported by scientific evidence.... Bridgen during the debate himself acknowledges the difference between correlation and causation but then firmly supports evidence that almost certainly mixes them up... I think the debate was summarised well towards the end: A transcript of the full debate is here: Excess Death Trends Volume 743: debated on Tuesday 16 January 2024Good argument. This bit is convenient though. ...a high number of people who were vaccinated appear in the excess death population, but when 93.6% of the population have had at least one dose of a covid vaccine, there will be a high number of vaccinated people in the excess death numbers. That is prevalence, not causality... The excess deaths are above the 5 year average. The reasons why are the question and I don't think it is in the interests of pfizer/Moderna to let us mere mortals know. That makes sense to me and is obvious. Sales, money, pipeline for other illnesses, which pfizer in particular have prepared for with acquisitions.(as posted a while ago) |
|
|
|
Post by gashead79 on Jan 21, 2024 8:34:20 GMT
Noticed a twitter poll which needs a pinch of salt imo, but some of the comments are interesting to scroll through. There's a lot of unconvinced people out here so the 'circles' point becomes extra interesting..how can you not speak to anybody who is unhappy with it or has fallen ill? x.com/CartlandDavid/status/1748774488022360321?s=20 |
|
|
|
Post by supergas on Jan 21, 2024 12:20:44 GMT
The reason to disregard it is because of the lack of decent supporting evidence for his claims. Incidentally I've read the whole debate (not just the clipped video soundbite) and read more about the people and data he is referencing. Here's some background on two of the key people he's listening to... Professor Heneghan concluded during the height of the covid epidemic that "...the evidence shows that wearing masks in the community does not significantly reduce the rates of infection...." - a claim that was met with criticism by many other experts in the field (including Kamran Abbasi from the British Medical Journal) that he had made basic scientific errors misrepresenting a Danish randomized controlled trial and extrapolating data from a tiny subset to the population as a whole...Dr Aseem Malhotra (good book sales during Covid) has made multiple claims refuted by multiple experts for multiple reasons - Fullfact and AFP have labelled some of his claims as false and others as relying on unreliable research/flawed studies. The Editor of The Lancet (Richard Horton) noted that his unfounded claims get public attention because of his methods: ...but he's still lacking evidence for his claims - Frank Han (a paediatric cardiologist) went through Malhotra's 20 main claims and concluded the majority were unsupported by scientific evidence.... Bridgen during the debate himself acknowledges the difference between correlation and causation but then firmly supports evidence that almost certainly mixes them up... I think the debate was summarised well towards the end: A transcript of the full debate is here: Excess Death Trends Volume 743: debated on Tuesday 16 January 2024Good argument. This bit is convenient though. ...a high number of people who were vaccinated appear in the excess death population, but when 93.6% of the population have had at least one dose of a covid vaccine, there will be a high number of vaccinated people in the excess death numbers. That is prevalence, not causality... The excess deaths are above the 5 year average. The reasons why are the question and I don't think it is in the interests of pfizer/Moderna to let us mere mortals know. That makes sense to me and is obvious. Sales, money, pipeline for other illnesses, which pfizer in particular have prepared for with acquisitions.(as posted a while ago) ...and if you'd watched or read the full debate you'd see there is a list of potential reasons why excess deaths are still high (in general and in specific categories) that don't involve vaccine side effects. Most of them pass a basic "common-sense test" based on changes we know happened - and in some cases are still happening - to people's lifestyles and healthcare choices and yet are completely unrelated to the vaccine or it's side effects. I could list them but it's an easy google... |
|
|
|
Post by supergas on Jan 21, 2024 12:23:21 GMT
Noticed a twitter poll which needs a pinch of salt imo, but some of the comments are interesting to scroll through. There's a lot of unconvinced people out here so the 'circles' point becomes extra interesting..how can you not speak to anybody who is unhappy with it or has fallen ill? x.com/CartlandDavid/status/1748774488022360321?s=20Twitter polls are self-selecting and so meaningless... |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Jan 21, 2024 19:34:49 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by aghast on Jan 21, 2024 21:45:05 GMT
That's the problem with these things. A few sceptics who might be experts in the field but take a controversial alternative (albeit possibly valid) view publish their thoughts, and the world of the internet leaps on it and immediately believes it: a) must be true because it's not what The Man told us b) proves the government are lying and c) shows the corporations of the world would happily kill us all if it preserves their bonuses. It's verging on madness. |
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on Jan 22, 2024 12:09:37 GMT
To paraphrase ‘the vaccine is top of the excess death list until proven otherwise’. No. That’s not how it works. In fact it’s the opposite of how it works. The vaccine can be top of the excess death list when proven, if ever. It’s like me saying “cheese causes the most excess deaths in children, until proven otherwise”. It’s absolute nonsense. As for Malhotra, I think it’s always worth listening to actual scientists. People interpret data differently. However, his views on diet and health have been criticised by British Heart Foundation as “misleading and wrong”, his views were also considered to be a danger to public health. The British diabetic association also said his suggested diets were some of the top ones to avoid. Interestingly, the British heart foundation give their experiences on the increased CVD since the pandemic here; www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/policy-and-public-affairs/excess-deaths-involving-cardiovascular-disease-an-analysisPersonally I’d rather trust the information from the British heart foundation, than my wife or mate from the gym. I’ve spoken to many people in real life too about Covid and the vaccines and it’s interesting, everyone’s healthy and happy. Funny the circles you end up in. This is exactly the correct approach btw. People should trust the information that they feel they can rely on until that trust is tested. I have found myself in a place where I dont really trust any of the organisations that have financial interests in the pandemic or the jabs. That ranges from GPs getting £ per jab to the media who are bought/influenced by industry. Interesting point on circles..I know plenty of people who have been jabbed and are fine too! Its not just here in the UK or even this chat board where you'll find people/me prodding the narrative. Portugal is apparently topping the European chart for excess deaths and the CHEGA party are asking for an investigation into potential links. www.portugalresident.com/chega-wants-investigation-into-possible-link-between-vaccines-and-portugals-record-number-of-excess-deaths/And BHF have financial interested in pandemics or jabs? What/where are they? Also, £ per jab for GPs? The NHS can’t afford proper equipment, but you reckon they’re giving GPs a pound per jab? GPs don’t even refer you to the Covid vaccine 🤣 |
|
|
|
Post by supergas on Jan 23, 2024 12:18:09 GMT
This is exactly the correct approach btw. People should trust the information that they feel they can rely on until that trust is tested. I have found myself in a place where I dont really trust any of the organisations that have financial interests in the pandemic or the jabs. That ranges from GPs getting £ per jab to the media who are bought/influenced by industry. Interesting point on circles..I know plenty of people who have been jabbed and are fine too! Its not just here in the UK or even this chat board where you'll find people/me prodding the narrative. Portugal is apparently topping the European chart for excess deaths and the CHEGA party are asking for an investigation into potential links. www.portugalresident.com/chega-wants-investigation-into-possible-link-between-vaccines-and-portugals-record-number-of-excess-deaths/And BHF have financial interested in pandemics or jabs? What/where are they? Also, £ per jab for GPs? The NHS can’t afford proper equipment, but you reckon they’re giving GPs a pound per jab? GPs don’t even refer you to the Covid vaccine 🤣 The more you think about it the more everyone had a financial interest in the vaccine being rolled out and being successful, from sole-traders and small business owners to multi-national companies and governments around the world. |
|
|
|
Post by gashead79 on Jan 24, 2024 11:11:03 GMT
This is exactly the correct approach btw. People should trust the information that they feel they can rely on until that trust is tested. I have found myself in a place where I dont really trust any of the organisations that have financial interests in the pandemic or the jabs. That ranges from GPs getting £ per jab to the media who are bought/influenced by industry. Interesting point on circles..I know plenty of people who have been jabbed and are fine too! Its not just here in the UK or even this chat board where you'll find people/me prodding the narrative. Portugal is apparently topping the European chart for excess deaths and the CHEGA party are asking for an investigation into potential links. www.portugalresident.com/chega-wants-investigation-into-possible-link-between-vaccines-and-portugals-record-number-of-excess-deaths/And BHF have financial interested in pandemics or jabs? What/where are they? Also, £ per jab for GPs? The NHS can’t afford proper equipment, but you reckon they’re giving GPs a pound per jab? GPs don’t even refer you to the Covid vaccine 🤣 GPs get paid for each jab administered. The NHS spends alot of money on proper equipment aswell. Don't be fooled by the headlines. The NHS goes into crisis mode every winter and has done for decades. It's BS. |
|
|
|
Post by supergas on Jan 24, 2024 12:13:59 GMT
And BHF have financial interested in pandemics or jabs? What/where are they? Also, £ per jab for GPs? The NHS can’t afford proper equipment, but you reckon they’re giving GPs a pound per jab? GPs don’t even refer you to the Covid vaccine 🤣 The NHS spends alot of money on proper equipment aswell. Don't be fooled by the headlines. The NHS goes into crisis mode every winter and has done for decades. It's BS. They do. Each vaccine administered saves the NHS and/or the economy hundreds or thousands of pounds that it would cost if that person got ill, spread it and/or needed serious treatment. GPs are not part of the NHS and so what other incentive to provide vaccines would they have - and let's remember each vaccination incurs costs and risks.... |
|
