Israel

When you have something useful to say then come back.

I've no preference either way, just want a resolution that allows both to live side by side.

I recall a (probably apocryphal) comment about the National Servicemen who served during the Palestine Mandate. They arrived pro Isreali and left pro Arab.

I do get the impression that we've drifted from the Hamas v Israel conflict with Hamas being in the wrong to an Israel v Palestinians with Isreal being always in the wrong.

We've seemed to have muddied the waters and we shouldn't see Hamas and the Palestinians as the same.

Feel exactly the same , utter knobs on both sides ! 

I'll take that as an admission that your point is crushed.
Jamaicans descending from Africa are not a global cultural net benefit from the Atlantic slave trade. Lol.
I think my family will disagree with you on that, but they wouldn't entertain you anyway.

It's unbelievable isn't it.

There you have it.
Daring at last to write more than one sentence, we get these gems.

"mine is an example of a cultural benefit of slavery"

The cultural benefit of slavery...can you imagine.

"smash Hamas and its supporters out of existence. Collateral damage is unfortunate but necessary"

My god, just kill everyone. Stalin and Hitler would be proud.

"The UK also needs to be on guard since we've allowed so many undocumented fighting age Muslims enter our shores. They will be loyal to their people and have little regard for the law of this land or the west"

You have to wonder if he has ever spoken to a Muslim, or would even know if he has

"The frightening thing is that we have healthy numbers of sympathisers and welcome parties who are literally encouraging this invasion"

There you go.

Ok let me spell it out for you.
The Moors invaded Spain and brought with them a culture of education etc that I already described. I am not condoning invasion but what they did and what they brought with them is a matter of historical fact.

On the other hand, We, the British and others, went to Africa, kidnapped and enslaved local populations and transported them to another continent against their will.

Could you describe to me what culture and traditions those enslaved people's were allowed to bring with them?

What happened in the 20th century in terms of music, art and literature from the descendants of those slaves had little direct correlation with the original culture of the people's removed from the African continent.

More to do with survival, the imposition of Christianity and the apartheid they suffered post abolition.

This culture was born out of an adjustment to the conditions they found themselves in. Do you really think that given the choice that those original enslaved people's would have traded their freedom for that outcome?

Conversely what the Moors brought was adopted and integrated into European culture, and not reversed after they were kicked out.

There is no benefit of slavery for the original enslaved people's. In fact it is arguable that it is only since the 1980s that their descendants have begun to be treated as equals by the descendants of the white colonists.

On a personal note, as an older white man I have enjoyed and indeed collect Jazz recordings since as long as I can remember. Listening to the stories of those artists, certainly those recorded after WW2, I can confidently say that I have never heard one of them claim their art is a cultural benefit of slavery.

Yes the Moors colonised Spain, raped and pillaged it, and enslaved millions of Europeans over 1300 years.

Over 3 times longer than the Atlantic Slave Trade lasted.

So let me get this straight, because in your opinion The Moors brought a culture of education, the enslavement and murder of millions of Europeans and the rape and pillaging of the iberian culture is fair game? I failing to understand you Oldie, it's no different to the British Empire.

Are you being serious when you ask what cultures and traditions slaves brought with them? How about languages for starters, Especially in the southern states, Creole languages are spoken across Louisiana, Florida, Georgia and The Carolinas, then there's the food, Religions and Beliefs.

So you don't think the African Slaves brought any of their culture to the North America, Central America, Carribean or South America?

If you don't think African culture has any correlation with the Music, Dance and Art or popular cultures from The Americas and Caribbean then I don't think I can take you seriously anymore.

Nice to know an 'older White Man' giving me a lecture on slavery and Black/African culture.

As for your opinion on Jazz, maybe read these quotes from Jazz Musicians, you may or may not have heard of.....

“The transportation of slaves to the New World was a link in the chain between two Continents: a musical chain we shall test link by link in order to trace the many stresses and strains which have affected it; a full grasp of the implications of slavery is not only necessary, but vital, to a clear understanding of jazz.”
—Rex Harris, Jazz (Penguin, 1952)

“Jazz was not an accident. It appeared when it did because of what had gone before, and it spread through the culture with amazing spread because the American people were prepared for it – in fact, were actively searching for it, or something like it.”
—James Lincoln Collier, Jazz, the American Theme Song (OUP, 1993)


Of course, it wasn't a cultural benefit of slavery, at all.

Haha, looking forward to the replies from the COD brigade on this one.
Fair question I guess but the answers are simple to anybody who knows.