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Israel
Dec 24, 2023 12:07:33 GMT
Post by supergas on Dec 24, 2023 12:07:33 GMT
The Pentagon stated that the attack was "in the Indian Ocean, 200 nautical miles from the coast of India, by a one-way attack drone fired from Iran." Was that 200 from the east coast, the southern tip or the west coast? The West coast is generally described as the Arabian Ocean. So if it was 200 miles south of India that's a hell of a long way to fly from Iran whose coast line borders the Strait of Hormuz around to the Arabian Ocean. And not be picked up? A bit of tub thumping going on in the Pentagon methinks No one is going to publish longitude or latitude because at best it allows the attackers (Iran, no doubt about that now) to check all their data, at worst it allows others to target the disabled ship for a further attack... ...I get you dislike the Americans for whatever reason, and I would not take any US reports by themselves (media, military or politician) as a decent single source. But the sources are coming from around the globe (media, military, political and businesses)...this is the start of something that if it's not stopped will lead to death and massive disruption unless this area is made safe from terrorist (both state and independent) attacks... |
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Post by gashead79 on Dec 24, 2023 12:25:20 GMT
The Pentagon stated that the attack was "in the Indian Ocean, 200 nautical miles from the coast of India, by a one-way attack drone fired from Iran." Was that 200 from the east coast, the southern tip or the west coast? The West coast is generally described as the Arabian Ocean. So if it was 200 miles south of India that's a hell of a long way to fly from Iran whose coast line borders the Strait of Hormuz around to the Arabian Ocean. And not be picked up? A bit of tub thumping going on in the Pentagon methinks No one is going to publish longitude or latitude because at best it allows the attackers (Iran, no doubt about that now) to check all their data, at worst it allows others to target the disabled ship for a further attack... ...I get you dislike the Americans for whatever reason, and I would not take any US reports by themselves (media, military or politician) as a decent single source. But the sources are coming from around the globe (media, military, political and businesses)...this is the start of something that if it's not stopped will lead to death and massive disruption unless this area is made safe from terrorist (both state and independent) attacks... He just trying to be smart. Fwiw, the Arabian Sea and Bay of Bengal are part of the Indian Ocean anyway. This whole region from certain lines on a map are heavily patrolled by security vessels and have many private contractors operating on merchant vessels. It was a matter of time before long range drone strikes were committed. The drones can also launch from vessels closer to target, so it might not have travelled as far as the news will tell people. Intelligence services will already have tracked the drone. They can't let on though as it may give their capabilities away. |
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Israel
Dec 24, 2023 21:22:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Dec 24, 2023 21:22:33 GMT
No one is going to publish longitude or latitude because at best it allows the attackers (Iran, no doubt about that now) to check all their data, at worst it allows others to target the disabled ship for a further attack... ...I get you dislike the Americans for whatever reason, and I would not take any US reports by themselves (media, military or politician) as a decent single source. But the sources are coming from around the globe (media, military, political and businesses)...this is the start of something that if it's not stopped will lead to death and massive disruption unless this area is made safe from terrorist (both state and independent) attacks... He just trying to be smart. Fwiw, the Arabian Sea and Bay of Bengal are part of the Indian Ocean anyway. This whole region from certain lines on a map are heavily patrolled by security vessels and have many private contractors operating on merchant vessels. It was a matter of time before long range drone strikes were committed. The drones can also launch from vessels closer to target, so it might not have travelled as far as the news will tell people. Intelligence services will already have tracked the drone. They can't let on though as it may give their capabilities away. How far is it from Bandar Abbas to fly down the bottom end of the Straits of Hormuz, avoiding west friendly Omani airspace, avoiding Pakistani airspace then locate the target whilst avoiding western naval assets? Answers on a post card to "Please Mr President Can we bomb Iran Never forgiven 1979 Langley Washington DC" |
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Israel
Dec 24, 2023 21:25:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Dec 24, 2023 21:25:36 GMT
The Pentagon stated that the attack was "in the Indian Ocean, 200 nautical miles from the coast of India, by a one-way attack drone fired from Iran." Was that 200 from the east coast, the southern tip or the west coast? The West coast is generally described as the Arabian Ocean. So if it was 200 miles south of India that's a hell of a long way to fly from Iran whose coast line borders the Strait of Hormuz around to the Arabian Ocean. And not be picked up? A bit of tub thumping going on in the Pentagon methinks No one is going to publish longitude or latitude because at best it allows the attackers (Iran, no doubt about that now) to check all their data, at worst it allows others to target the disabled ship for a further attack... ...I get you dislike the Americans for whatever reason, and I would not take any US reports by themselves (media, military or politician) as a decent single source. But the sources are coming from around the globe (media, military, political and businesses)...this is the start of something that if it's not stopped will lead to death and massive disruption unless this area is made safe from terrorist (both state and independent) attacks... Good story. A story predicated upon your opinion, but little evidence that is verifiable. I don't dislike Americans, I am in fact in America right now. |
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Post by supergas on Dec 25, 2023 5:36:42 GMT
No one is going to publish longitude or latitude because at best it allows the attackers (Iran, no doubt about that now) to check all their data, at worst it allows others to target the disabled ship for a further attack... ...I get you dislike the Americans for whatever reason, and I would not take any US reports by themselves (media, military or politician) as a decent single source. But the sources are coming from around the globe (media, military, political and businesses)...this is the start of something that if it's not stopped will lead to death and massive disruption unless this area is made safe from terrorist (both state and independent) attacks... Good story. A story predicated upon your opinion, but little evidence that is verifiable. I don't dislike Americans, I am in fact in America right now. ...then I don't see why you can't see/don't believe what is happening right now in this region. We have governments/politicians on all sides, military (current and retired experts), all the major shipping companies and the people launching the attacks all saying these attacks are being launched.... ...*or* we've got you claiming the Americans are making it up... |
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Israel
Dec 25, 2023 5:49:43 GMT
Post by supergas on Dec 25, 2023 5:49:43 GMT
He just trying to be smart. Fwiw, the Arabian Sea and Bay of Bengal are part of the Indian Ocean anyway. This whole region from certain lines on a map are heavily patrolled by security vessels and have many private contractors operating on merchant vessels. It was a matter of time before long range drone strikes were committed. The drones can also launch from vessels closer to target, so it might not have travelled as far as the news will tell people. Intelligence services will already have tracked the drone. They can't let on though as it may give their capabilities away. How far is it from Bandar Abbas to fly down the bottom end of the Straits of Hormuz, avoiding west friendly Omani airspace, avoiding Pakistani airspace then locate the target whilst avoiding western naval assets? Answers on a post card to "Please Mr President Can we bomb Iran Never forgiven 1979 Langley Washington DC" ...the Iranians are a leading manufacturer of miiltary drones... |
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Post by gashead79 on Dec 26, 2023 9:43:37 GMT
How far is it from Bandar Abbas to fly down the bottom end of the Straits of Hormuz, avoiding west friendly Omani airspace, avoiding Pakistani airspace then locate the target whilst avoiding western naval assets? Answers on a post card to "Please Mr President Can we bomb Iran Never forgiven 1979 Langley Washington DC" ...the Iranians are a leading manufacturer of miiltary drones... Not only that, the aircraft can hide from controlled airspace management. They design these things to do a job! For long transits they will hug the ground/surface, manouvre on airspace boundaries, absorb and deflect radar, and can fly further than what's advertised. Some of them will only do 1 way tasks so they'll break up or sink once the job is complete to avoid being tracked back. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 26, 2023 11:09:10 GMT
Not only that, the aircraft can hide from controlled airspace management. They design these things to do a job! For long transits they will hug the ground/surface, manouvre on airspace boundaries, absorb and deflect radar, and can fly further than what's advertised. Some of them will only do 1 way tasks so they'll break up or sink once the job is complete to avoid being tracked back. Presumably it could also fly masking its presence against the clutter of other ships and aircraft. Iran have supplied drones to Russia for use in Ukraine, maybe we can bring some of their experiences to good use. There is a reason we've sent that class of ship, being an air defence specialist. Looks like India will be joining in too. Going to get busy. |
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Israel
Dec 26, 2023 17:40:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 26, 2023 17:40:39 GMT
Some reports Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states are trying to win Gazans' hearts and minds with aid and support, also Hamas security clamping down heavily causing problems.
If yrie, could uld we be seeing a change in middle Eastern power play?
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Post by aghast on Dec 26, 2023 22:56:53 GMT
Some reports Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states are trying to win Gazans' hearts and minds with aid and support, also Hamas security clamping down heavily causing problems. If yrie, could uld we be seeing a change in middle Eastern power play? Been on the Boxing Day port Stuart...? |
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yattongas
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Posts: 15,475 
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Post by yattongas on Dec 26, 2023 22:59:07 GMT
Some reports Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states are trying to win Gazans' hearts and minds with aid and support, also Hamas security clamping down heavily causing problems. If yrie, could uld we be seeing a change in middle Eastern power play? Been on the Boxing Day port Stuart...? Hic 🥃 |
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 26, 2023 23:20:24 GMT
Some reports Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states are trying to win Gazans' hearts and minds with aid and support, also Hamas security clamping down heavily causing problems. If yrie, could uld we be seeing a change in middle Eastern power play? Been on the Boxing Day port Stuart...? Oops! No, I'm tee total these days, just a combination of fat fingers and rushing. |
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Israel
Dec 26, 2023 23:54:39 GMT
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Post by oldie on Dec 26, 2023 23:54:39 GMT
Meanwhile
Whilst the west jumps up and down about paper aeroplanes aimed at some ships in vague locations, the Kurds are being bombed and killed in Syria and Iraq.
By our fellow Native allies, Turkey. And we say?
Nothing of course.
The Kurds, who we betrayed after WW1, (we being the UK and French) and who we turn away from after they fought on our side to defeat ISIS.
Probably time to bomb Iran, they are to blame, surely?
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Israel
Dec 27, 2023 1:16:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Dec 27, 2023 1:16:49 GMT
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Israel
Dec 27, 2023 1:31:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 27, 2023 1:31:34 GMT
Sorry, I struggled to read objectively once I got to "Libya fell into a protracted civil war after a US-led NATO mission overthrew Muammar Gaddafi. Ukraine was bludgeoned on the battlefield by Russia in 2023 after the US secretly scuttled a peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine in 2022." Both incorrect. |
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Israel
Dec 27, 2023 1:36:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 27, 2023 1:36:53 GMT
Meanwhile Whilst the west jumps up and down about paper aeroplanes aimed at some ships in vague locations, the Kurds are being bombed and killed in Syria and Iraq. By our fellow Native allies, Turkey. And we say? Nothing of course. The Kurds, who we betrayed after WW1, (we being the UK and French) and who we turn away from after they fought on our side to defeat ISIS. Probably time to bomb Iran, they are to blame, surely? Partly true, we also defended them against Saddam after 1991 and more recently against ISIS. With regards to "paper aeroplanes" or "vague locations", they are far more than that and this a far more serious incident than you may think. Can't see the US attacking Iran directly, proxies in third countries yes, but not Iran itself. |
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Israel
Dec 27, 2023 2:30:53 GMT
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Post by oldie on Dec 27, 2023 2:30:53 GMT
Sorry, I struggled to read objectively once I got to "Libya fell into a protracted civil war after a US-led NATO mission overthrew Muammar Gaddafi. Ukraine was bludgeoned on the battlefield by Russia in 2023 after the US secretly scuttled a peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine in 2022." Both incorrect. Were we and the French just proxies in the Libyan debacle. But I agree, the wording in that article is hyperbolic, but the principle is true. |
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Israel
Dec 27, 2023 2:33:13 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Dec 27, 2023 2:33:13 GMT
Meanwhile Whilst the west jumps up and down about paper aeroplanes aimed at some ships in vague locations, the Kurds are being bombed and killed in Syria and Iraq. By our fellow Native allies, Turkey. And we say? Nothing of course. The Kurds, who we betrayed after WW1, (we being the UK and French) and who we turn away from after they fought on our side to defeat ISIS. Probably time to bomb Iran, they are to blame, surely? Partly true, we also defended them against Saddam after 1991 and more recently against ISIS. With regards to "paper aeroplanes" or "vague locations", they are far more than that and this a far more serious incident than you may think. Can't see the US attacking Iran directly, proxies in third countries yes, but not Iran itself. It's hard determine a proxy when the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is embedded in both Iraq and Syria.The question is why are there American forces in both those countries? |
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Israel
Dec 27, 2023 9:01:19 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 27, 2023 9:01:19 GMT
Sorry, I struggled to read objectively once I got to "Libya fell into a protracted civil war after a US-led NATO mission overthrew Muammar Gaddafi. Ukraine was bludgeoned on the battlefield by Russia in 2023 after the US secretly scuttled a peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine in 2022." Both incorrect. Were we and the French just proxies in the Libyan debacle. But I agree, the wording in that article is hyperbolic, but the principle is true. The author certainly has form looking at his previous works, seems reticent to condemn China and thinks Nato caused Russia to invade Ukraine. A quarter of those 800 bases are actually embassies with a solitary Marine guard. Still a lot, but an accepted Internet myth which he's citing to cause resentment in the reader. With regards to Libya, we were more involved that the US at the start, Obama was very reluctant. However, it was UN Security Council backed, aimed at preventing government firces from killing people and Nato only coordinated the no fly zone two weeks after the intervention started, itself was a coalition including several Gulf states. We didn't do this without international agreement or participation. What it wasn't was a US led, Nato attempt to oust Gaddafi. |
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Israel
Dec 27, 2023 9:04:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 27, 2023 9:04:36 GMT
Partly true, we also defended them against Saddam after 1991 and more recently against ISIS. With regards to "paper aeroplanes" or "vague locations", they are far more than that and this a far more serious incident than you may think. Can't see the US attacking Iran directly, proxies in third countries yes, but not Iran itself. It's hard determine a proxy when the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is embedded in both Iraq and Syria.The question is why are there American forces in both those countries? I'm thinking more attacking Iran itself. They will target certain Iranians but not Iran if that makes sense. Turning your question around, why are Iranians in Iraq and Syria, or why is Iran backing Houthis in Yemen, Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon? |
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