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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 23, 2023 17:44:35 GMT
The expectation is out there. 8th or better over a 14 game period or goodbye. If AM continues in the job (as manager) then its 13th January Barnsley away. What happens then if we're 9th or lower, AM gets the boot with the transfer window probably then closing before his replacement takes over?
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 23, 2023 17:55:35 GMT
IMO it's obvious that the board are waiting for Barton to get a job elsewhere and off the payroll first. I've heard this kind of thing before and I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now. That isn't how contracts work? JB had a 5 year contract. We wouldn't be saying we will pay you for the next five years or until you get another job. We would be saying here is 20% of that five years wages, off you pop. We should be taking the approach that what he said after the Stevenage game was gross misconduct and that he is owed no compensation. We've no idea why JB was dismissed or what compensation he was entitled to? Perhaps the board decided after the Burton loss to dismiss him when they got their chance and he gave it to them on a plate in his post match Stevenage rant? Or perhaps he failed to meet the performance requirements, points/league position wise?
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Post by gasheadontour on Nov 23, 2023 18:28:45 GMT
"The Steve Evans Weeble outburst was the final nail in the JB coffin for me. The club had do something after that, you just can’t act like that in our current snowflake times." Most likely JB already had an idea he was on the way out before then.
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Post by gasheadontour on Nov 23, 2023 18:35:09 GMT
I expect the best candidates will be waiting to hear if they have been offered other jobs such as Rotherham.
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Post by eric on Nov 23, 2023 18:48:24 GMT
IMO it's obvious that the board are waiting for Barton to get a job elsewhere and off the payroll first. I've heard this kind of thing before and I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now. That isn't how contracts work? JB had a 5 year contract. We wouldn't be saying we will pay you for the next five years or until you get another job. We would be saying here is 20% of that five years wages, off you pop. We should be taking the approach that what he said after the Stevenage game was gross misconduct and that he is owed no compensation. Unless severance terms were set out in advance in the contract (or we had sufficient legal grounds to terminate his contract on the grounds of gross misconduct) then he would be entitled to receive his monthly wage until his contract expires - if he accepts another job he’d have to resign and we’d be off the hook. That’s why many managers (Sven Goran Ericsson leaving England being a prime example) have just sat on their big contracts and not rushed into getting a new job. Btw I don’t think for one minute the club would be waiting for him to get another job before appointing a new manager. That is just nonsense.
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 23, 2023 18:58:19 GMT
I've heard this kind of thing before and I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now. That isn't how contracts work? JB had a 5 year contract. We wouldn't be saying we will pay you for the next five years or until you get another job. We would be saying here is 20% of that five years wages, off you pop. We should be taking the approach that what he said after the Stevenage game was gross misconduct and that he is owed no compensation. Unless severance terms were set out in advance in the contract (or we had sufficient legal grounds to terminate his contract on the grounds of gross misconduct) then he would be entitled to receive his monthly wage until his contract expires - if he accepts another job he’d have to resign and we’d be off the hook. That’s why many managers (Sven Goran Ericsson leaving England being a prime example) have just sat on their big contracts and not rushed into getting a new job. Btw I don’t think for one minute the club would be waiting for him to get another job before appointing a new manager. That is just nonsense. There's been no suggestion he's on gardening leave just that he's been dismissed, I assume if he was entitled to compensation some deal was agreed upon his departure. Whilst he may have just been joking he did say in a recent interview he was on the dole.
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Post by percy on Nov 23, 2023 19:05:06 GMT
The only other explanation I can think of for the delay is that they are in no hurry and are waiting to see who else becomes available in the coming weeks and months because they don’t feel the right man is out there at the moment … maybe 🤷♂️ Or they could just be incompetent buffoons. 🤷♂️ Another GasChat Fact
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Post by lympstonegas on Nov 23, 2023 19:15:04 GMT
Unless severance terms were set out in advance in the contract (or we had sufficient legal grounds to terminate his contract on the grounds of gross misconduct) then he would be entitled to receive his monthly wage until his contract expires - if he accepts another job he’d have to resign and we’d be off the hook. That’s why many managers (Sven Goran Ericsson leaving England being a prime example) have just sat on their big contracts and not rushed into getting a new job. Btw I don’t think for one minute the club would be waiting for him to get another job before appointing a new manager. That is just nonsense. There's been no suggestion he's on gardening leave just that he's been dismissed, I assume if he was entitled to compensation some deal was agreed upon his departure. Whilst he may have just been joking he did say in a recent interview he was on the dole. I remember him saying that he didn’t get paid by Bristol Rovers once
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Post by eric on Nov 23, 2023 19:21:48 GMT
Unless severance terms were set out in advance in the contract (or we had sufficient legal grounds to terminate his contract on the grounds of gross misconduct) then he would be entitled to receive his monthly wage until his contract expires - if he accepts another job he’d have to resign and we’d be off the hook. That’s why many managers (Sven Goran Ericsson leaving England being a prime example) have just sat on their big contracts and not rushed into getting a new job. Btw I don’t think for one minute the club would be waiting for him to get another job before appointing a new manager. That is just nonsense. There's been no suggestion he's on gardening leave just that he's been dismissed, I assume if he was entitled to compensation some deal was agreed upon his departure. Whilst he may have just been joking he did say in a recent interview he was on the dole. If there was nothing in his contract and there was a clean break and compensation then it will have been an agreement between both parties. Therein lies the dilemma from a clubs perspective - a clean break is tidy but if they think their former manager will want to get straight back into work they won’t want to pay out too much, whereas money motivated individuals like Sven would just choose to sit out their contract and get money for nothing so any compensation agreement would need to be weighted more in the managers favour.
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Post by gasify on Nov 23, 2023 19:30:27 GMT
I've heard this kind of thing before and I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now. That isn't how contracts work? JB had a 5 year contract. We wouldn't be saying we will pay you for the next five years or until you get another job. We would be saying here is 20% of that five years wages, off you pop. We should be taking the approach that what he said after the Stevenage game was gross misconduct and that he is owed no compensation. We've no idea why JB was dismissed or what compensation he was entitled to? Perhaps the board decided after the Burton loss to dismiss him when they got their chance and he gave it to them on a plate in his post match Stevenage rant? Or perhaps he failed to meet the performance requirements, points/league position wise? What do you think about the suggestion that he will continue to be paid until he gets another job? That was what I was responding to.
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Post by gasify on Nov 23, 2023 19:41:04 GMT
I've heard this kind of thing before and I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now. That isn't how contracts work? JB had a 5 year contract. We wouldn't be saying we will pay you for the next five years or until you get another job. We would be saying here is 20% of that five years wages, off you pop. We should be taking the approach that what he said after the Stevenage game was gross misconduct and that he is owed no compensation. Unless severance terms were set out in advance in the contract (or we had sufficient legal grounds to terminate his contract on the grounds of gross misconduct) then he would be entitled to receive his monthly wage until his contract expires - if he accepts another job he’d have to resign and we’d be off the hook. That’s why many managers (Sven Goran Ericsson leaving England being a prime example) have just sat on their big contracts and not rushed into getting a new job. Btw I don’t think for one minute the club would be waiting for him to get another job before appointing a new manager. That is just nonsense. Just googled the Sven situation as I don't remember him sitting on a contract. I found this: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2006/jan/24/newsstory.sportIt looks like he was paid £5m when he had 2 years left on a £4.5m a year contract. This is the situation that I imagine. You can take a lump sum now and off you pop. I would have expected JB to be offered something like that (obviously scaled to Rovers budget and the contract value). A manager sitting on a contract to the end, doesn't help the manager or the club. I refuse to believe that this is what happens when a football manager is sacked. Maybe it happen in the 90's but not in the last 10 years...?
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,388
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Post by pirate on Nov 23, 2023 19:59:28 GMT
It became a Gaschat fact once Pirate suggested that Wael had been given the task of finding the new manager. My source also said back on 2nd November that Wael was in Jordan for a couple of weeks, so might explain part of the delay? Although with modern communication it should be too difficult to start negotiations remotely. Attachment Deleted
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Post by eric on Nov 23, 2023 20:04:38 GMT
Unless severance terms were set out in advance in the contract (or we had sufficient legal grounds to terminate his contract on the grounds of gross misconduct) then he would be entitled to receive his monthly wage until his contract expires - if he accepts another job he’d have to resign and we’d be off the hook. That’s why many managers (Sven Goran Ericsson leaving England being a prime example) have just sat on their big contracts and not rushed into getting a new job. Btw I don’t think for one minute the club would be waiting for him to get another job before appointing a new manager. That is just nonsense. Just googled the Sven situation as I don't remember him sitting on a contract. I found this: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2006/jan/24/newsstory.sportIt looks like he was paid £5m when he had 2 years left on a £4.5m a year contract. This is the situation that I imagine. You can take a lump sum now and off you pop. I would have expected JB to be offered something like that (obviously scaled to Rovers budget and the contract value). A manager sitting on a contract to the end, doesn't help the manager or the club. I refuse to believe that this is what happens when a football manager is sacked. Maybe it happen in the 90's but not in the last 10 years...? Probably less common now I agree, I’m sure most clubs would want severance terms (both ways) agreed in advance but depends what is negotiated at outset and how desperate a club is to get a certain manager onboard. A bit like signing players who you are desperate to get in and they won’t agree to a relegation clause which reduces their wages - is the club that desperate to sign that player that they are willing to take that risk? Didn’t Sunderland get stuck with £70k per week Jack Rodwell in league one?
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 23, 2023 20:06:07 GMT
It became a Gaschat fact once Pirate suggested that Wael had been given the task of finding the new manager. My source also said back on 2nd November that Wael was in Jordan for a couple of weeks, so might explain part of the delay? Although with modern communication it should be too difficult to start negotiations remotely. View Attachment The use of "apparently" is interesting, not a primary source?
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Post by yattongas on Nov 23, 2023 20:07:47 GMT
My source also said back on 2nd November that Wael was in Jordan for a couple of weeks, so might explain part of the delay? Although with modern communication it should be too difficult to start negotiations remotely. View Attachment The use of "apparently" is interesting, not a primary source? The use of “my source” is nauseating 🙄😂
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,388
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Post by pirate on Nov 23, 2023 20:21:29 GMT
My source also said back on 2nd November that Wael was in Jordan for a couple of weeks, so might explain part of the delay? Although with modern communication it should be too difficult to start negotiations remotely. View Attachment The use of "apparently" is interesting, not a primary source? Someone who usually has their finger on the pulse.
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,388
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Post by pirate on Nov 23, 2023 20:23:11 GMT
The use of "apparently" is interesting, not a primary source? The use of “my source” is nauseating 🙄😂 Agreed. Apologies. 😆
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Post by playtowin on Nov 23, 2023 20:33:23 GMT
The reasoning given by the owner for JB being sacked was the league position did not match the investment they had put in. They expected the club to be around 8th or better. If at the point in the season the decision was made 10-14 games. It stands to reason that is the time frame they make their judgement on. So a new manager starting today has the maximum of the Barnsley game to be 8th(ish) or above. A new man might get longer as its not his squad. AM though being part of the JB setup and the players choice might be judged harsher.After all AM wont be the players choice if he announces the squad isnt good enough and he wants big changes in January. Think it's a bit more complex than that! Results had been pretty much awful since the turn of the year, we didn't really look like we were really moving forwards on the pitch - more stagnated at best. And I really don't believe JB was sacked purely based on results anyway. Not having it. Maybe in part but - regardless of what the owners say - I'd put my home on it being at least part driven by his horrendous outbursts (and probably largely down to that in reality). The new owners didnt mention last season though did they. Their decision was on this seasons investment.As they said joe is joe we all know what he says. They could have sacked him on day one were it down to his misjudged comments.
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Post by playtowin on Nov 23, 2023 20:34:57 GMT
The reasoning given by the owner for JB being sacked was the league position did not match the investment they had put in. They expected the club to be around 8th or better. If at the point in the season the decision was made 10-14 games. It stands to reason that is the time frame they make their judgement on. So a new manager starting today has the maximum of the Barnsley game to be 8th(ish) or above. A new man might get longer as its not his squad. AM though being part of the JB setup and the players choice might be judged harsher.After all AM wont be the players choice if he announces the squad isnt good enough and he wants big changes in January. One of the most ridiculous posts I’ve ever seen on this forum 😂 Thank you for such a thought out well balanced response. Your counter arguments were outstanding. 🤣
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Post by playtowin on Nov 23, 2023 20:36:40 GMT
The expectation is out there. 8th or better over a 14 game period or goodbye. If AM continues in the job (as manager) then its 13th January Barnsley away. What happens then if we're 9th or lower, AM gets the boot with the transfer window probably then closing before his replacement takes over? No idea . Depends on how strongly they believed in their statement about value for their investment in the squad i guess.
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