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Post by oldmarket65 on Jul 5, 2024 9:55:03 GMT
Another great result from Labour is 'keeping the union' . They reduced SNP to single figures and won 80% of the vote . And retaken Wales back shaming the nationalist. This settles the argument of independence and only Labour can keep the union. Even the Sun newspaper said ' Labour are the best for the union'. Not sure Labour 'won' a lot of those votes in Scotland, more that those who have voted SNP in the past have finally woken up and realised the party has serious issues at many levels and is borderline unfit to govern. Turnout in Scotland looks to be down around 15% overall and the SNP vote share is down by almost the same proportion... How have Labour not won seats in Scotland ?. In 2019 SNP won about 36 seats Labour 1. In 2024 Labour won about 35 seats SNP 1. If that's not a clear swing to Labour then I'm at a loss. The headline news is ' Labour wins Scotland'.
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Post by supergas on Jul 5, 2024 10:14:07 GMT
Not sure Labour 'won' a lot of those votes in Scotland, more that those who have voted SNP in the past have finally woken up and realised the party has serious issues at many levels and is borderline unfit to govern. Turnout in Scotland looks to be down around 15% overall and the SNP vote share is down by almost the same proportion... How have Labour not won seats in Scotland ?. In 2019 SNP won about 36 seats Labour 1. In 2024 Labour won about 35 seats SNP 1. If that's not a clear swing to Labour then I'm at a loss. The headline news is ' Labour wins Scotland'. Firstly I said votes not seats. Labour won the most seats but looking at the vote totals is very interesting. Turnout is down 15% across Scotland. Labour picked up around 334,000 votes vs 2019 and the Conservatives lost around 388,000. The SNP lost over half a million votes vs 2019. If we look at the larger picture it's a fairly safe assumption that a lot of the conservative votes swung to Labour and a lot of the SNP supporters stayed home. Hence my conclusion that Labour didn't win by being fantastic in Scotland, they won because the SNP is mired in controversy and their voters didn't turn out. Interesting to read what the polling experts say later on, but my point was Labour won almost by default - they were the least worst party up there...
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Post by oldmarket65 on Jul 5, 2024 10:50:09 GMT
How have Labour not won seats in Scotland ?. In 2019 SNP won about 36 seats Labour 1. In 2024 Labour won about 35 seats SNP 1. If that's not a clear swing to Labour then I'm at a loss. The headline news is ' Labour wins Scotland'. Firstly I said votes not seats. Labour won the most seats but looking at the vote totals is very interesting. Turnout is down 15% across Scotland. Labour picked up around 334,000 votes vs 2019 and the Conservatives lost around 388,000. The SNP lost over half a million votes vs 2019. If we look at the larger picture it's a fairly safe assumption that a lot of the conservative votes swung to Labour and a lot of the SNP supporters stayed home. Hence my conclusion that Labour didn't win by being fantastic in Scotland, they won because the SNP is mired in controversy and their voters didn't turn out. Interesting to read what the polling experts say later on, but my point was Labour won almost by default - they were the least worst party up there... I heard this ' default ' by Tories all the time . Its a ridiculous statement to make . You could make that argument about any political power who wins an election. You could use that theory in footballing terms with promotion / relegation. Do good sides get relegated ? Do bad sides get promotion?. The main issue for me was votes and seats . The British public could of given Labour only 330 seats and listened to the Tory concern of a ' big majority'. They never they gave Labour a massive majority almost up there with Blair. I simply ask . If the Great British public are so disillusioned why give Labour 412 seats not 330. After all the Tories made it a public campaign to raise this issue . This is a major endorsement of a Labour government . People knew what they were doing and some Tories are acting unprofessional.
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Post by francegas on Jul 5, 2024 12:09:21 GMT
Firstly I said votes not seats. Labour won the most seats but looking at the vote totals is very interesting. Turnout is down 15% across Scotland. Labour picked up around 334,000 votes vs 2019 and the Conservatives lost around 388,000. The SNP lost over half a million votes vs 2019. If we look at the larger picture it's a fairly safe assumption that a lot of the conservative votes swung to Labour and a lot of the SNP supporters stayed home. Hence my conclusion that Labour didn't win by being fantastic in Scotland, they won because the SNP is mired in controversy and their voters didn't turn out. Interesting to read what the polling experts say later on, but my point was Labour won almost by default - they were the least worst party up there... I heard this ' default ' by Tories all the time . Its a ridiculous statement to make . You could make that argument about any political power who wins an election. You could use that theory in footballing terms with promotion / relegation. Do good sides get relegated ? Do bad sides get promotion?. The main issue for me was votes and seats . The British public could of given Labour only 330 seats and listened to the Tory concern of a ' big majority'. They never they gave Labour a massive majority almost up there with Blair. I simply ask . If the Great British public are so disillusioned why give Labour 412 seats not 330. After all the Tories made it a public campaign to raise this issue . This is a major endorsement of a Labour government . People knew what they were doing and some Tories are acting unprofessional. I know various people will jump down my throat on this and it's not a case of sour grapes but I do not believe this is a major endorsement of a Labour Government. If you are staunch Labour you would never vote Conservative and of course vice versa. If you are left wing other than Labour there is no other credible party to vote for. However if your a Tory there is the emergence of Reform which has undoubtedly split the right wing vote. Labour received only around 2% more of the vote than they received in 2019 and some 8/9% less that Boris received yet achieved a landslide. As I said previously fair play but only time will tell if Labour are any good for the UK.
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Post by yattongas on Jul 5, 2024 12:18:11 GMT
Think our right wing friends are ( predictably 🙄) failing to grasp that their side lost fairly and squarely. Yes turnout was down a bit but they resoundingly beat the other parties in our first past the post system. Fully expect them to start asking for proportional representation…….. for the first time in their lives as they just can’t quite comprehend the size of their defeat.
You lost lads , you were stuffed whatever way you want to try and spin things .
( only 99 days left until the country falls apart 😂! )
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Post by oldie on Jul 5, 2024 12:19:19 GMT
I heard this ' default ' by Tories all the time . Its a ridiculous statement to make . You could make that argument about any political power who wins an election. You could use that theory in footballing terms with promotion / relegation. Do good sides get relegated ? Do bad sides get promotion?. The main issue for me was votes and seats . The British public could of given Labour only 330 seats and listened to the Tory concern of a ' big majority'. They never they gave Labour a massive majority almost up there with Blair. I simply ask . If the Great British public are so disillusioned why give Labour 412 seats not 330. After all the Tories made it a public campaign to raise this issue . This is a major endorsement of a Labour government . People knew what they were doing and some Tories are acting unprofessional. I know various people will jump down my throat on this and it's not a case of sour grapes but I do not believe this is a major endorsement of a Labour Government. If you are staunch Labour you would never vote Conservative and of course vice versa. If you are left wing other than Labour there is no other credible party to vote for. However if your a Tory there is the emergence of Reform which has undoubtedly split the right wing vote. Labour received only around 2% more of the vote than they received in 2019 and some 8/9% less that Boris received yet achieved a landslide. As I said previously fair play but only time will tell if Labour are any good for the UK. Regardless of the comparisons, I do believe that Labour have work to do to convince the public they have the answers. Labour cannot complain, the way the cards have fallen they have this massive majority with time and authority to implement the changes needed. If they fail, then this could hand our democracy to our very own Trump style nut job, Nigel Farage.
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Post by yattongas on Jul 5, 2024 12:43:46 GMT
May I be the first to wish Parrot good luck in his move abroad.
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Post by baggins on Jul 5, 2024 12:44:04 GMT
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Post by yattongas on Jul 5, 2024 13:06:09 GMT
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Post by oldmarket65 on Jul 5, 2024 13:07:46 GMT
I heard this ' default ' by Tories all the time . Its a ridiculous statement to make . You could make that argument about any political power who wins an election. You could use that theory in footballing terms with promotion / relegation. Do good sides get relegated ? Do bad sides get promotion?. The main issue for me was votes and seats . The British public could of given Labour only 330 seats and listened to the Tory concern of a ' big majority'. They never they gave Labour a massive majority almost up there with Blair. I simply ask . If the Great British public are so disillusioned why give Labour 412 seats not 330. After all the Tories made it a public campaign to raise this issue . This is a major endorsement of a Labour government . People knew what they were doing and some Tories are acting unprofessional. I know various people will jump down my throat on this and it's not a case of sour grapes but I do not believe this is a major endorsement of a Labour Government. If you are staunch Labour you would never vote Conservative and of course vice versa. If you are left wing other than Labour there is no other credible party to vote for. However if your a Tory there is the emergence of Reform which has undoubtedly split the right wing vote. Labour received only around 2% more of the vote than they received in 2019 and some 8/9% less that Boris received yet achieved a landslide. As I said previously fair play but only time will tell if Labour are any good for the UK. It is true there was only ' modest ' increases in historically Labour areas . But you know full well we needed to win in Tory/Lib Dem areas to get a national vote. This is the real issue. In those areas we scored between 5-7% increase which reveals the real picture . We won because we took areas unheard of before. Therefore it is an endorsement for national unity. If we took 7% increase in converted areas you would be saying its the hard left or urban vote that won. So it's 1% increase in already Labour areas and up to 7% increase in non Labour areas . That's a clear victory to me !.
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Post by yattongas on Jul 5, 2024 14:51:35 GMT
There's a rumour going round that David Lammy won't get the Foreign Office job. Be interesting to see who Starmer brings in if not. Lammy Foreign minister . Mint.
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Post by aghast on Jul 5, 2024 16:00:36 GMT
Just popped onto the other forum to see how they're taking it. Apart from that maniac ltdgas, surprisingly well considering.
The fact that Farage and three other nutters have been elected cushions the blow I think.
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Post by yattongas on Jul 5, 2024 16:56:22 GMT
Just popped onto the other forum to see how they're taking it. Apart from that maniac ltdgas, surprisingly well considering. The fact that Farage and three other nutters have been elected cushions the blow I think. Can’t be arsed to look over there but not heard of this ltdgas creature ….. new one or a reincarnation?
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Post by yattongas on Jul 5, 2024 17:00:15 GMT
Who won in the end supergas ? Must of been close between Gassy and Stu .
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Post by supergas on Jul 5, 2024 17:08:38 GMT
Perhaps we can tally the scores by adding up the number of places we are out by and the lowest score wins. So if Labour gets 450 and one person said 460, they score 10. Similarly if someone said 425 they score 25. Same for each party. The speaker as Stuart pointed out is a special case but maybe we can score him as Labour if it gets that close. There is a holiday in France at stake so it might get tense. Using this system the winner is francegas with 40, then Gassy with 44, stuart1974 with 49, then me with 56, aghast with 82 and yattongas with 97 coming sixth*/last* *delete as apropriate...
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Post by yattongas on Jul 5, 2024 17:20:18 GMT
Perhaps we can tally the scores by adding up the number of places we are out by and the lowest score wins. So if Labour gets 450 and one person said 460, they score 10. Similarly if someone said 425 they score 25. Same for each party. The speaker as Stuart pointed out is a special case but maybe we can score him as Labour if it gets that close. There is a holiday in France at stake so it might get tense. Using this system the winner is francegas with 40, then Gassy with 44, stuart1974 with 49, then me with 56, aghast with 82 and yattongas with 97 coming sixth*/last* *delete as apropriate... I prefer last over 6th 😃 Well played France 👍
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Post by aghast on Jul 5, 2024 17:25:07 GMT
Perhaps we can tally the scores by adding up the number of places we are out by and the lowest score wins. So if Labour gets 450 and one person said 460, they score 10. Similarly if someone said 425 they score 25. Same for each party. The speaker as Stuart pointed out is a special case but maybe we can score him as Labour if it gets that close. There is a holiday in France at stake so it might get tense. Using this system the winner is francegas with 40, then Gassy with 44, stuart1974 with 49, then me with 56, aghast with 82 and yattongas with 97 coming sixth*/last* *delete as apropriate... Thanks for adding them up. Ashamed I was fifth but at least that loser yatton was behind me.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 5, 2024 17:25:56 GMT
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Post by yattongas on Jul 5, 2024 17:47:07 GMT
Thanks for adding them up. Ashamed I was fifth but at least that loser yatton was behind me. Thanks mate
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Post by aghast on Jul 5, 2024 18:13:34 GMT
I see Reform have gained a fifth seat after several recounts.
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