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Post by francegas on Jul 8, 2024 6:43:09 GMT
Bloody hell, what a weekend. Labour win, 3 British drivers at the front in quali, England winning penalties and Hamilton winning. Fair play to Starmer, things improving immediately 🥹 Add in the Far right getting whooped in France 🇫🇷😃👌 By election rigging and withdrawing a democratic vote.
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Post by yattongas on Jul 8, 2024 7:39:31 GMT
Add in the Far right getting whooped in France 🇫🇷😃👌 By election rigging and withdrawing a democratic vote. Haha ! Every time they lose , someone is rigging the results 🙄
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 8, 2024 8:06:31 GMT
Add in the Far right getting whooped in France 🇫🇷😃👌 By election rigging and withdrawing a democratic vote. You sound disappointed. 🤔
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 8, 2024 8:59:12 GMT
Add in the Far right getting whooped in France 🇫🇷😃👌 By election rigging and withdrawing a democratic vote. While I don't agree with their politics I do agree that it took some shenanigans to stop them winning. That said, it was all perfectly above board under Frances system of democracy.
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Post by oldie on Jul 8, 2024 9:24:28 GMT
By election rigging and withdrawing a democratic vote. You sound disappointed. 🤔 Yes That surprised me as well.
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Post by oldie on Jul 8, 2024 9:26:37 GMT
By election rigging and withdrawing a democratic vote. While I don't agree with their politics I do agree that it took some shenanigans to stop them winning. That said, it was all perfectly above board under Frances system of democracy. You could define it that way, or you could say that 2/3rds of the population coalesced around a centre/centre left/hard left offer to keep that faction out of power. That's democracy
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Post by yattongas on Jul 8, 2024 9:33:40 GMT
While I don't agree with their politics I do agree that it took some shenanigans to stop them winning. That said, it was all perfectly above board under Frances system of democracy. You could define it that way, or you could say that 2/3rds of the population coalesced around a centre/centre left/hard left offer to keep that faction out of power. That's democracy Democracy? Down with that sort of thing 🙄
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Post by yattongas on Jul 8, 2024 11:16:09 GMT
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 8, 2024 12:27:33 GMT
While I don't agree with their politics I do agree that it took some shenanigans to stop them winning. That said, it was all perfectly above board under Frances system of democracy. You could define it that way, or you could say that 2/3rds of the population coalesced around a centre/centre left/hard left offer to keep that faction out of power. That's democracy I dont disagree, but candidates pulling out to give only 2 choices isn't a good look. If it was the other way around I wonder what people would say? The far right in France clearly have a mandate and it's dangerous to ignore that and people shoild address that properly rather than massaging an election. I recognise it is a necessary evil to many on the left but it doesn't sit well with this jaded, old, centre left man.
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Post by oldie on Jul 8, 2024 12:52:55 GMT
You could define it that way, or you could say that 2/3rds of the population coalesced around a centre/centre left/hard left offer to keep that faction out of power. That's democracy I dont disagree, but candidates pulling out to give only 2 choices isn't a good look. If it was the other way around I wonder what people would say? The far right in France clearly have a mandate and it's dangerous to ignore that and people shoild address that properly rather than massaging an election. I recognise it is a necessary evil to many on the left but it doesn't sit well with this jaded, old, centre left man. It happens here as well. I know in my constituency the Lib Dems were encouraging their supporters to vote Labour to rid us of a high ranking Tory MP. We got him out by just 200 votes
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 8, 2024 13:11:24 GMT
I dont disagree, but candidates pulling out to give only 2 choices isn't a good look. If it was the other way around I wonder what people would say? The far right in France clearly have a mandate and it's dangerous to ignore that and people shoild address that properly rather than massaging an election. I recognise it is a necessary evil to many on the left but it doesn't sit well with this jaded, old, centre left man. It happens here as well. I know in my constituency the Lib Dems were encouraging their supporters to vote Labour to rid us of a high ranking Tory MP. We got him out by just 200 votes Or Farage withdrawing the Brexit Party in 2019 giving Boris an 80 seat majority and "Get Brexit Done".
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Post by oldie on Jul 8, 2024 13:12:11 GMT
It happens here as well. I know in my constituency the Lib Dems were encouraging their supporters to vote Labour to rid us of a high ranking Tory MP. We got him out by just 200 votes Or Farage withdrawing the Brexit Party in 2019 giving Boris an 80 seat majority and "Get Brexit Done". Precisely
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Post by yattongas on Jul 8, 2024 13:22:57 GMT
You could define it that way, or you could say that 2/3rds of the population coalesced around a centre/centre left/hard left offer to keep that faction out of power. That's democracy I dont disagree, but candidates pulling out to give only 2 choices isn't a good look. If it was the other way around I wonder what people would say? The far right in France clearly have a mandate and it's dangerous to ignore that and people shoild address that properly rather than massaging an election. I recognise it is a necessary evil to many on the left but it doesn't sit well with this jaded, old, centre left man. Remember the Brexit party standing down for the Tories handing them a 80 seat majority? Edit : just seen Stu made the same point
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Post by yattongas on Jul 8, 2024 13:26:21 GMT
I dont disagree, but candidates pulling out to give only 2 choices isn't a good look. If it was the other way around I wonder what people would say? The far right in France clearly have a mandate and it's dangerous to ignore that and people shoild address that properly rather than massaging an election. I recognise it is a necessary evil to many on the left but it doesn't sit well with this jaded, old, centre left man. It happens here as well. I know in my constituency the Lib Dems were encouraging their supporters to vote Labour to rid us of a high ranking Tory MP. We got him out by just 200 votes In my seat Wells and Mendip hills ( we were moved from North Somerset in the boundary changes ) , Labour made little to no effort here. Vice versa in North Somerset it was all about Labour and the Libdems pretty much stood down. They both won 😃👍
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 8, 2024 14:00:40 GMT
It happens here as well. I know in my constituency the Lib Dems were encouraging their supporters to vote Labour to rid us of a high ranking Tory MP. We got him out by just 200 votes In my seat Wells and Mendip hills ( we were moved from North Somerset in the boundary changes ) , Labour made little to no effort here. Vice versa in North Somerset it was all about Labour and the Libdems pretty much stood down. They both won 😃👍 I also voted Lib Dem for the same reason. My point is that I had the option to vote for 6 or 7 candidates, not 2. Not campaigning is different to pulling out/standing down.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 9, 2024 14:30:06 GMT
First day of Parliament today. Farage getting his digs in early. 🙄
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Post by yattongas on Jul 9, 2024 20:06:30 GMT
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Post by supergas on Jul 10, 2024 9:14:37 GMT
In my seat Wells and Mendip hills ( we were moved from North Somerset in the boundary changes ) , Labour made little to no effort here. Vice versa in North Somerset it was all about Labour and the Libdems pretty much stood down. They both won 😃👍 I also voted Lib Dem for the same reason. My point is that I had the option to vote for 6 or 7 candidates, not 2. Not campaigning is different to pulling out/standing down. The other factor in French elections is the two-stage voting. With so many candidates qualifying for the second round but standing down once they saw how the results were going, it surely raises questions about the overall integrity of the results...? I have no issue with tactical voting as Yatton and Hugo are describing here. However taking decisions and giving advice like that before the first vote is cast is one thing - doing it in the middle of the votes being cast is different and I'm not sure it's a good thing no matter that it got the desired result...
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Post by yattongas on Jul 10, 2024 9:46:30 GMT
I also voted Lib Dem for the same reason. My point is that I had the option to vote for 6 or 7 candidates, not 2. Not campaigning is different to pulling out/standing down. The other factor in French elections is the two-stage voting. With so many candidates qualifying for the second round but standing down once they saw how the results were going, it surely raises questions about the overall integrity of the results...? I have no issue with tactical voting as Yatton and Hugo are describing here. However taking decisions and giving advice like that before the first vote is cast is one thing - doing it in the middle of the votes being cast is different and I'm not sure it's a good thing no matter that it got the desired result... Not really Super . Voters still had a choice and ultimately it boiled down to do you want to stop the far right getting power? Thankfully the French said a firm no thanks . When sh** gets serious , you have to vote accordingly.
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Post by supergas on Jul 10, 2024 9:54:24 GMT
The other factor in French elections is the two-stage voting. With so many candidates qualifying for the second round but standing down once they saw how the results were going, it surely raises questions about the overall integrity of the results...? I have no issue with tactical voting as Yatton and Hugo are describing here. However taking decisions and giving advice like that before the first vote is cast is one thing - doing it in the middle of the votes being cast is different and I'm not sure it's a good thing no matter that it got the desired result... Not really Super . Voters still had a choice and ultimately it boiled down to do you want to stop the far right getting power? Thankfully the French said a firm no thanks . When sh** gets serious , you have to vote accordingly. If halfway through polling in the UK we popped open the ballot boxes and let everyone know how it was going, that would i) influence what the parties said and did for the rest of the day and ii) influence a lot of those who hadn't yet voted... ...as I stated, it got the desired result but morally I think if you qualify for the second round you should stay on the ballot even if you urge your supporters to vote for someone else...
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