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Post by seanclevedongas on Aug 9, 2024 0:44:10 GMT
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Post by seanclevedongas on Aug 9, 2024 0:55:22 GMT
This is really worth a listen and helps makes the point
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Post by seanclevedongas on Aug 9, 2024 1:12:55 GMT
Cough Cough! But the other bloke is very interesting!
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Post by seanclevedongas on Aug 9, 2024 1:13:44 GMT
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Post by seanclevedongas on Aug 9, 2024 1:24:50 GMT
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Post by supergas on Aug 9, 2024 1:33:27 GMT
I think we have just reached some kind of tipping point where you can no longer claim to be centre-right (or to a certain extent) centre-left in the UK/US (and quite a few other countries) without the loud and shouty people immediately labelling you extremist.
I'm happy to say that my political views are centre-right and I'm happy to debate with anyone who wants to tell me there is a better way. But just because I want controlled immigration, low taxes/low government spending, a small civil-service, free markets and so on does not make me far right. Nor does it make me fascist. More and more those are labels being put on people who just want a sensible debate on important topics...
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Post by joefrankie on Aug 9, 2024 7:46:06 GMT
I think we have just reached some kind of tipping point where you can no longer claim to be centre-right (or to a certain extent) centre-left in the UK/US (and quite a few other countries) without the loud and shouty people immediately labelling you extremist. I'm happy to say that my political views are centre-right and I'm happy to debate with anyone who wants to tell me there is a better way. But just because I want controlled immigration, low taxes/low government spending, a small civil-service, free markets and so on does not make me far right. Nor does it make me fascist. More and more those are labels being put on people who just want a sensible debate on important topics... If you are centre right, then who do you vote for? Because the Tory Part is no longer centre right. They are just plain right wing now. When the Tories were centre right people like Ken Clarke, Michael Heseltine, Douglas Hurd and Chris Patten were in the cabinet. I'm not going to pretend that I would have voted for them, but I have no qualms in saying they were decent men wanted the best for the country, just slightly different to me. Those kind of people are no longer there. I don't think any reasonable person would deny that the Tories have lurched further to the right, and they're only going to get worse; they have Reform voters to win back. They're not going to do that by promoting inclusion and tolerance are they? As for low government spending, we've seen the results of 14 years of that; the NHS on it's knees, schools on their knees, the care sector on it's knees, most local councils on the verge of bankruptcy, nothing working better than it had done 14 years previously. I'm not going to pretend there was any great love of Labour at the last election, but people could see that the country just couldn't afford another Tory government. Clearly I have no idea who you vote for.
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Post by seanclevedongas on Aug 9, 2024 8:56:39 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 9, 2024 9:00:14 GMT
Out of interest Sean, are you aged between 45 and 60?
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Post by yattongas on Aug 9, 2024 9:03:54 GMT
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Post by supergas on Aug 9, 2024 9:27:59 GMT
I think we have just reached some kind of tipping point where you can no longer claim to be centre-right (or to a certain extent) centre-left in the UK/US (and quite a few other countries) without the loud and shouty people immediately labelling you extremist. I'm happy to say that my political views are centre-right and I'm happy to debate with anyone who wants to tell me there is a better way. But just because I want controlled immigration, low taxes/low government spending, a small civil-service, free markets and so on does not make me far right. Nor does it make me fascist. More and more those are labels being put on people who just want a sensible debate on important topics... If you are centre right, then who do you vote for? Because the Tory Part is no longer centre right. They are just plain right wing now. When the Tories were centre right people like Ken Clarke, Michael Heseltine, Douglas Hurd and Chris Patten were in the cabinet. I'm not going to pretend that I would have voted for them, but I have no qualms in saying they were decent men wanted the best for the country, just slightly different to me. Those kind of people are no longer there. I don't think any reasonable person would deny that the Tories have lurched further to the right, and they're only going to get worse; they have Reform voters to win back. They're not going to do that by promoting inclusion and tolerance are they? As for low government spending, we've seen the results of 14 years of that; the NHS on it's knees, schools on their knees, the care sector on it's knees, most local councils on the verge of bankruptcy, nothing working better than it had done 14 years previously. I'm not going to pretend there was any great love of Labour at the last election, but people could see that the country just couldn't afford another Tory government. Clearly I have no idea who you vote for. Who I vote for is irrelevant - and you have run right past my point. What's wrong with being 'Right Wing'? 20-30 odd years ago probably more than half the country would proudly have described their political views that way... ...what we haven't had is 14 years of "...low government spending..." - it's gone up from £961bn in 2009/10 to £1.157tn in 2022/23 (+20.4% in real terms). Spending on the NHS was also completely protected from austerity. Why are councils going bankrupt? Spending too much on non-statutory things... It would be great to have heavyweights like Clarke, Hurd and Patten back in the frontline of politics but those ships have sailed and so we wait for the next generation to come through...
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Post by seanclevedongas on Aug 9, 2024 9:47:06 GMT
Out of interest Sean, are you aged between 45 and 60? Why do you ask? are you being ageist? It's not only people of my generation that are concerned
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Post by joefrankie on Aug 9, 2024 10:18:56 GMT
If you are centre right, then who do you vote for? Because the Tory Part is no longer centre right. They are just plain right wing now. When the Tories were centre right people like Ken Clarke, Michael Heseltine, Douglas Hurd and Chris Patten were in the cabinet. I'm not going to pretend that I would have voted for them, but I have no qualms in saying they were decent men wanted the best for the country, just slightly different to me. Those kind of people are no longer there. I don't think any reasonable person would deny that the Tories have lurched further to the right, and they're only going to get worse; they have Reform voters to win back. They're not going to do that by promoting inclusion and tolerance are they? As for low government spending, we've seen the results of 14 years of that; the NHS on it's knees, schools on their knees, the care sector on it's knees, most local councils on the verge of bankruptcy, nothing working better than it had done 14 years previously. I'm not going to pretend there was any great love of Labour at the last election, but people could see that the country just couldn't afford another Tory government. Clearly I have no idea who you vote for. Who I vote for is irrelevant - and you have run right past my point. What's wrong with being 'Right Wing'? 20-30 odd years ago probably more than half the country would proudly have described their political views that way... ...what we haven't had is 14 years of "...low government spending..." - it's gone up from £961bn in 2009/10 to £1.157tn in 2022/23 (+20.4% in real terms). Spending on the NHS was also completely protected from austerity. Why are councils going bankrupt? Spending too much on non-statutory things... It would be great to have heavyweights like Clarke, Hurd and Patten back in the frontline of politics but those ships have sailed and so we wait for the next generation to come through... The majority have never been right wing, certainly not since the war. The majority always vote for left of centre parties, but because of our archaic electoral system this often lets the Tories in through the back door. No government in modern times has got more than 44% of the vote. Until this election the Tories have always had the right wing vote to themselves. Reform upset that last month.
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Post by yattongas on Aug 9, 2024 10:23:57 GMT
Who I vote for is irrelevant - and you have run right past my point. What's wrong with being 'Right Wing'? 20-30 odd years ago probably more than half the country would proudly have described their political views that way... ...what we haven't had is 14 years of "...low government spending..." - it's gone up from £961bn in 2009/10 to £1.157tn in 2022/23 (+20.4% in real terms). Spending on the NHS was also completely protected from austerity. Why are councils going bankrupt? Spending too much on non-statutory things... It would be great to have heavyweights like Clarke, Hurd and Patten back in the frontline of politics but those ships have sailed and so we wait for the next generation to come through... The majority have never been right wing, certainly not since the war. The majority always vote for left of centre parties, but because of our archaic electoral system this often lets the Tories in through the back door. No government in modern times has got more than 44% of the vote. Until this election the Tories have always had the right wing vote to themselves. Reform upset that last month. Stop coming on here with all the facts 🙄😂👍
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Post by seanclevedongas on Aug 9, 2024 10:52:11 GMT
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Post by seanclevedongas on Aug 9, 2024 11:24:32 GMT
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Post by seanclevedongas on Aug 9, 2024 11:39:15 GMT
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Post by supergas on Aug 9, 2024 12:04:22 GMT
Who I vote for is irrelevant - and you have run right past my point. What's wrong with being 'Right Wing'? 20-30 odd years ago probably more than half the country would proudly have described their political views that way... ...what we haven't had is 14 years of "...low government spending..." - it's gone up from £961bn in 2009/10 to £1.157tn in 2022/23 (+20.4% in real terms). Spending on the NHS was also completely protected from austerity. Why are councils going bankrupt? Spending too much on non-statutory things... It would be great to have heavyweights like Clarke, Hurd and Patten back in the frontline of politics but those ships have sailed and so we wait for the next generation to come through... The majority have never been right wing, certainly not since the war. The majority always vote for left of centre parties, but because of our archaic electoral system this often lets the Tories in through the back door. No government in modern times has got more than 44% of the vote. Until this election the Tories have always had the right wing vote to themselves. Reform upset that last month. There's a difference between the votes cast and what people actually think though. It's obvious over recent decades that the left and centre-left parties have moved to the right in terms of policies to win votes and form governments. How many people do you think would have described themselves as right wing in 1997 but voted for Blair's Labour...? Aside from that, the right wing Conservative Party has won more than 45% of the vote four times since the war and more than 40% of the vote thirteen times. When you add in minor parties, independents and (as you point out) people who felt they didn't want or need to vote because of the system, why is 50% of the overall population such a stretch?
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 9, 2024 12:23:24 GMT
Out of interest Sean, are you aged between 45 and 60? Why do you ask? are you being ageist? It's not only people of my generation that are concerned Not at all, it would be the age bracket I'm in too. It was an observation a professor on the radio yesterday raised that certain demographics use certain media outlets.
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Post by axegas on Aug 9, 2024 12:50:49 GMT
I don’t mind people posting a few links to videos and articles. However this isn’t YouTube so please don’t constantly post links to videos rather than engage in discussion.
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