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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 7, 2024 9:32:11 GMT
I just crunched the numbers quickly, they're not a good indicator as the sample sizes are so small but for league games so far this season: Under Barton: 2.62 yellow cards/game Under Mangan: 1.60 yellow cards/game Under Taylor: 1.67 yellow cards/game That does seem to back up what most people would probably guess - for whatever reason we averaged one more yellow card every league game so far under Barton vs Mangan/Taylor... ...what's even more interesting (with the small sample size caveat still in place) - opposition yellow cards per game: Under Barton: 2.62 yellow cards/game ( exactly the same as Rovers players in those games) Under Mangan: 2.20 yellow cards/game ( 0.6 more yellow cards than Rovers players in those games) Under Taylor: 4.00 yellow cards/game ( 2.33 more yellow cards than Rovers players in those games) I doubt a difference of 1 yellow card per game suggests refs where that biased against JB, it probably suggests they weren't? The opponents cards count is most likely down to our improved performances. |
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Post by bluegas on Jan 7, 2024 9:38:31 GMT
Might one enquire how you know that? As a fact? Are you saying that referees have admitted being biased against BRFC (or any other club) because of their manager? No, I said I know he's not popular within the refereeing circuit. Whether that leads to being biased or not I don't know. As for how I know that I don't wish to divulge as not really fair on that person. Actually, buddy who goes to away games with me, and was a referee, says the same. I don't doubt it's true. |
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Post by gashead79 on Jan 7, 2024 9:41:14 GMT
Yesterday's referee was lenient.
Norwich were better at winning fouls than us.
He let quite a few physical things go.
He also missed a clear elbow on Finley in the 2nd half where he was 5 yards away.
Previous managers might have been berating the 4th official and kicking every ball. Our current manager appears to be a much calmer fellow.
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Post by supergas on Jan 7, 2024 10:30:59 GMT
I just crunched the numbers quickly, they're not a good indicator as the sample sizes are so small but for league games so far this season: Under Barton: 2.62 yellow cards/game Under Mangan: 1.60 yellow cards/game Under Taylor: 1.67 yellow cards/game That does seem to back up what most people would probably guess - for whatever reason we averaged one more yellow card every league game so far under Barton vs Mangan/Taylor... ...what's even more interesting (with the small sample size caveat still in place) - opposition yellow cards per game: Under Barton: 2.62 yellow cards/game ( exactly the same as Rovers players in those games) Under Mangan: 2.20 yellow cards/game ( 0.6 more yellow cards than Rovers players in those games) Under Taylor: 4.00 yellow cards/game ( 2.33 more yellow cards than Rovers players in those games) I doubt a difference of 1 yellow card per game suggests refs where that biased against JB, it probably suggests they weren't? The opponents cards count is most likely down to our improved performances. Thirteen extra cards over thirteen games is about the point where it starts to become statistically relevant - and Taylor's teams would have to average 3.5 cards every league game for the next seven games to match Barton's cards/game average. |
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Post by gasheadmichal on Jan 7, 2024 10:32:30 GMT
Under DC we had season where we won fair play team of the year if I remember correctly.
Vanarama or league 2,not sure I am.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 7, 2024 10:39:56 GMT
I'd be very surprised if refs were bias against us just because of our manager.
You just don't go out there thinking like that, you call the game as you see it.
If (and the numbers do appear to support this) JB teams picked up more cards then I'd suggest that was more to do with how he sets up his teams, the opposition, who he picks, his team talk and general football philosophy.
It could also be down to which players were available. As someone else mentioned, Ollie Clarke got booked every game. If he were unavailable though injury then the average cards per game for any given manager would change.
We've also played what many would consider some decent footballing sides (Wycombe not included) so again, that would benefit MTs current card stats.
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Post by Gassy on Jan 7, 2024 10:45:36 GMT
Whilst I agree with Hugo, one thing I will say - I felt a lot more frustrated with referee performances previously than I have since.
That could be down to coincidence however. I remember being really frustrated at the standard whilst under GC
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Post by madgas on Jan 7, 2024 10:49:20 GMT
As per my post I don't think there's necessarily a bias. But it's clear we are told to get on and play football.
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Post by bidefordgas on Jan 7, 2024 10:52:04 GMT
I just crunched the numbers quickly, they're not a good indicator as the sample sizes are so small but for league games so far this season: Under Barton: 2.62 yellow cards/game Under Mangan: 1.60 yellow cards/game Under Taylor: 1.67 yellow cards/game That does seem to back up what most people would probably guess - for whatever reason we averaged one more yellow card every league game so far under Barton vs Mangan/Taylor... ...what's even more interesting (with the small sample size caveat still in place) - opposition yellow cards per game: Under Barton: 2.62 yellow cards/game ( exactly the same as Rovers players in those games) Under Mangan: 2.20 yellow cards/game ( 0.6 more yellow cards than Rovers players in those games) Under Taylor: 4.00 yellow cards/game ( 2.33 more yellow cards than Rovers players in those games) I doubt a difference of 1 yellow card per game suggests refs where that biased against JB, it probably suggests they weren't? The opponents cards count is most likely down to our improved performances. Your final point is spot on topper. Success on the pitch goes hand in hand with a reduction in cards. |
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Post by kruger on Jan 7, 2024 10:56:55 GMT
Another anti Barton thread,this is stating to really bore the hell out of me and b4 anyone says I don't have to read it, the thread starter is about cards
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Post by gasheadmichal on Jan 7, 2024 11:11:50 GMT
Under DC we had season where we won fair play team of the year if I remember correctly. Vanarama or league 2,not sure I am. League 2 that was. 67 yellow 0 red |
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Post by peterhooper57 on Jan 7, 2024 11:12:24 GMT
Why open another JB thread when the last one was locked earlier by the mods, what are you really hoping to achieve particularly after a good result earlier. Totally agree, are we moving on or not ? |
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Post by rusho'gas on Jan 7, 2024 11:17:53 GMT
Don't think this is intrinsically an anti- Barton thread
Good OP observation and one that is open to either/or interpretation.
For what it's worth I feel that there may have been an involuntary bias by referees in the near distant past, only time will tell, even then it becomes subjective and impossible to quantify in real terms.
No football clubs go through a season without bookings but at present it appears to have slowed down under Taylor
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 7, 2024 11:56:38 GMT
Leaving JB out of it should the question be' does the public profile of a manager /player influence or affect the decision making of an official,? IMHO i think it likely, just as in a court of law a juror would probably be influenced if they knew of a defendants past misdemeanours, it is a very interesting debate ,i mean, it is not possible to 'blank' out something which is implanted in your mind is it? Goodness it's an interesting debate E.G would a bad tackle by say the late great 'Bobby Charlton'( if there was ever such a thing!) be punished in the same way as one by say 'Roy Keane'? and so on................! Generally I think you’re correct halifax. We should leave JB out if it and look at it in the terms you say. But you know and I do that JB is such a character that it becomes almost impossible to do. When I was writing my earlier post I was trying to leave JB out of it but it was hard to do so when making a direct comparison of then and now. But you are correct, irrespective of the characters I think refs, jurors, the watching public will always be influenced by the demeanour/behaviour of others in their decision making. I know I did when working, I would make decisions regarding those I did/didn’t trust and those whose judgements I did/ didn’t trust. Human nature I guess and we’re all subject to that. Aren’t we? UTG! |
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Post by Quarters on Jan 7, 2024 12:31:25 GMT
I think we had a very poor record under Ollie one season, the one where we got 4 reds in one game.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 7, 2024 13:19:23 GMT
Whilst I agree with Hugo, one thing I will say - I felt a lot more frustrated with referee performances previously than I have since. That could be down to coincidence however. I remember being really frustrated at the standard whilst under GC I'd guess that most of us are happy with a refs performance when we win. I didn't see many complaints in any promotion seasons under any manager. Where there is a difference is where particular managers moan and deflect after poor results which alters perceptions. JB was of the Wenger/Fergie/Klopp ilk, that blames the world to create a seige mentality. Taylor seems to be much more matter of fact about the reasons we lost a game. My personal preference is for Taylors style but that doesn't mean JB was wrong blame refs etc. It works for the best managers in the world but it also creates a completely false impression of unfair refereeing that doesn't actually exist. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2024 13:21:39 GMT
As a general rule do cautions not drop across the board as the players and referees work out the new rules brought in at the beginning of the season?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2024 13:27:22 GMT
I doubt a difference of 1 yellow card per game suggests refs where that biased against JB, it probably suggests they weren't? The opponents cards count is most likely down to our improved performances. Your final point is spot on topper. Success on the pitch goes hand in hand with a reduction in cards. I’m not sure about this Bideford, we had success in Div2 with our promotion and we did it with 95 yellow and 9 red cards. I’m not great at collecting stats, do we have the Sam Finely stats since Taylor has taken over, I’m convinced he’s constructively been spoken to. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2024 13:41:45 GMT
Some great comments, debate and stats on this thread.
It has been brought to my attention, that the Mods have taken upon themselves to now move the Barton thread to General Chat. First of all they set our rules on discussing his name on threads, I actually respected this and adhered to it but I know others who never agreed to it. This latest move in my opinion is a step too far, and an oppression of freedom of speech. Joey Barton is very Rovers related, and he will be for a long time. When he eventually references us, when the media continue to reference us, we cannot discuss him on the Rovers related section of the forum.
This reminds me now of what the states of Colorado and Maine are doing with Trump! We have no one to appeal to?!
It’s me done, I think it’s wrong but I respect this forum wouldn’t exist without the Mods. But the same mods gossiped between themselves I was Gasdust as well, the same Mods are controlling the agenda of what we can debate and discuss on a level which Barton is now on a crusade to stop!
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 7, 2024 13:49:53 GMT
Some great comments, debate and stats on this thread. It has been brought to my attention, that the Mods have taken upon themselves to now move the Barton thread to General Chat. First of all they set our rules on discussing his name on threads, I actually respected this and adhered to it but I know others who never agreed to it. This latest move in my opinion is a step too far, and an oppression of freedom of speech. Joey Barton is very Rovers related, and he will be for a long time. When he eventually references us, when the media continue to reference us, we cannot discuss him on the Rovers related section of the forum. This reminds me now of what the states of Colorado and Maine are doing with Trump! We have no one to appeal to?! It’s me done, I think it’s wrong but I respect this forum wouldn’t exist without the Mods. But the same mods gossiped between themselves I was Gasdust as well, the same Mods are controlling the agenda of what we can debate and discuss on a level which Barton is now on a crusade to stop! A thread gets moved to a different part of the forum and you are being oppressed? Hahahahahahhah |
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