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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 11:37:06 GMT
Turkey (a NATO member) has just shot down a Russian aircraft that they say had violated their airspace. Complications, complications...........
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Post by baggins on Nov 24, 2015 12:05:45 GMT
Turkey (a NATO member) has just shot down a Russian aircraft that they say had violated their airspace. Complications, complications........... Think it was only built by the Russians, not full of Russians. Not that makes any difference. Bad times. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 12:06:54 GMT
Turkey (a NATO member) has just shot down a Russian aircraft that they say had violated their airspace. Complications, complications........... Think it was only built by the Russians, not full of Russians. Not that makes any difference. Bad times. Nope, video already circulating of the aircrew. One dead, one captured alive. Both wearing Russian aircrew uniform and insignia. |
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Post by baggins on Nov 24, 2015 12:09:53 GMT
Think it was only built by the Russians, not full of Russians. Not that makes any difference. Bad times. Nope, video already circulating of the aircrew. One dead, one captured alive. Both wearing Russian aircrew uniform and insignia. Ah, that wasn't clear this morning. Won't be long and Russia will send a violent message. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 12:35:42 GMT
Nope, video already circulating of the aircrew. One dead, one captured alive. Both wearing Russian aircrew uniform and insignia. Ah, that wasn't clear this morning. Won't be long and Russia will send a violent message. I think this is a really complicated event, and probably more complicated than we all realize. For example, Moscow recently claimed that an arms dealer in the Ukraine was selling Ground-to-Air weapon systems to groups in Syria. Does this now justify more action in the Ukraine from Russia? Wii Russia use this as an excuse to shot down planes from anyone else (US, UK, France) in Syria, after all, they (Russia) are there after being invited by the legitimate Syrian government? In effect, the aircraft from the US, UK & France are violating Syrian airspace. There is usually an ulterior motive behind everything the Russians do. Did they sacrifice one aircraft to gain a bigger advantage? |
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Post by baggins on Nov 24, 2015 12:37:25 GMT
Ah, that wasn't clear this morning. Won't be long and Russia will send a violent message. I think this is a really complicated event, and probably more complicated than we all realize. For example, Moscow recently claimed that an arms dealer in the Ukraine was selling Ground-to-Air weapon systems to groups in Syria. Does this now justify more action in the Ukraine from Russia? Wii Russia use this as an excuse to shot down planes from anyone else (US, UK, France) in Syria, after all, they (Russia) are there after being invited by the legitimate Syrian government? In effect, the aircraft from the US, UK & France are violating Syrian airspace. There is usually an ulterior motive behind everything the Russians do. Did they sacrifice one aircraft to gain a bigger advantage? Â Trust Putin at your peril. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 13:06:28 GMT
The madness going on it literally, madness !
The US are flying missions from Turkish bases, in support of the Kurds who are fighting Assad. Turkey are flying missions from Turkish bases to bomb the very same Kurds that the US are supporting ! British, French and others are bombing ISIS, so in effect, helping Assad, when in reality they want him out. Turkey really doesn't like ISIS either, but they're happy to buy the cheap oil from them. Meanwhile, there is also the Free Syrian groups who are not exactly the nice guys.
We should stay out of the whole friggin mess.
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Post by baggins on Nov 24, 2015 13:14:30 GMT
The madness going on it literally, madness ! The US are flying missions from Turkish bases, in support of the Kurds who are fighting Assad. Turkey are flying missions from Turkish bases to bomb the very same Kurds that the US are supporting ! British, French and others are bombing ISIS, so in effect, helping Assad, when in reality they want him out. Turkey really doesn't like ISIS either, but they're happy to buy the cheap oil from them. Meanwhile, there is also the Free Syrian groups who are not exactly the nice guys. We should stay out of the whole friggin mess. Kenny Everett had the right idea, round them all up, put them in a field and bomb the bastards. |
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Post by supergas on Nov 24, 2015 13:41:21 GMT
We should stay out of the whole friggin mess. That's what I think Cameron is playing for. It's like a squad rotation thing...we played our part in the last few issues in the region, now we're looking to be on the bench, looking like we want to come on but actually conserving energy for the next one... |
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Post by baggins on Nov 24, 2015 13:44:36 GMT
We should stay out of the whole friggin mess. That's what I think Cameron is playing for. It's like a squad rotation thing...we played our part in the last few issues in the region, now we're looking to be on the bench, looking like we want to come on but actually conserving energy for the next one... Until we're asked to put boots on the ground and then we look sheepish as Cameron has cut 20k from our forces. |
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Post by supergas on Nov 24, 2015 13:57:38 GMT
That's what I think Cameron is playing for. It's like a squad rotation thing...we played our part in the last few issues in the region, now we're looking to be on the bench, looking like we want to come on but actually conserving energy for the next one... Until we're asked to put boots on the ground and then we look sheepish as Cameron has cut 20k from our forces. This is a good, if slightly biased/simplified version, from the BBC: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34897076Headlines, losing 30% of the pen-pushers in the MOD (as long as they pick the right 30% that's fine by me). Buying things we actually might need in the future rather than replacing things we needed in the past, again, fine by me. Also we meet NATO's requirement of spending 2% of GDP on defence. It's not a big list of us who do: U.S., Great Britain, Greece and Estonia (Poland should join us if they spend what they said they will). So why are Turkey, Norway, Albania, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria, etc etc not spending more and offering to put boots on the ground? (the answer is they've got used to the US, the UK and France protecting them from big and small threats because they're a non-participating member of NATO) |
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Post by inee on Nov 24, 2015 21:19:01 GMT
The madness going on it literally, madness ! The US are flying missions from Turkish bases, in support of the Kurds who are fighting Assad. Turkey are flying missions from Turkish bases to bomb the very same Kurds that the US are supporting ! British, French and others are bombing ISIS, so in effect, helping Assad, when in reality they want him out. Turkey really doesn't like ISIS either, but they're happy to buy the cheap oil from them. Meanwhile, there is also the Free Syrian groups who are not exactly the nice guys. We should stay out of the whole friggin mess. destroy the oil refinery isis took, that would take a lot of money of them, don't trust turkey either |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Nov 24, 2015 22:37:10 GMT
Just goes to show what a great job Saddam was doing.
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Post by inee on Nov 24, 2015 23:38:02 GMT
Just goes to show what a great job Saddam was doing. never a truer word spoken hugo, |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 8:50:51 GMT
It's interesting that just days after the Russians start bombing the ISIS oil tankers used to transport the cheap oil (to Turkey), the Turks shoot down a Russian plane. Have a peek at a Russian video of the attack. Just see how many oil tankers there are ! These are just the ones waiting to be filled up. How many more are there already on the journey, or returning? Russians attack ISIS oil tankers |
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Post by baggins on Nov 25, 2015 14:05:19 GMT
Just goes to show what a great job Saddam was doing. By putting to death over 300, 000 people in 5 years? Ok. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 14:34:15 GMT
Saddam had to go. The problem was that the politicians didn't have a clue what to do with Iraq afterwards. To be fair, nobody foresaw that the Iraqi people themselves would loot the whole country, plus the US decision to disband the Iraqi Army, and put 500,000 young men out of work, with no money, was an act of folly.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Nov 25, 2015 15:39:27 GMT
Just goes to show what a great job Saddam was doing. By putting to death over 300, 000 people in 5 years? Ok. I was being slightly flippant, but how many died in removing him and since? And how many to come? We f**k about in other people's countries when it suits. Pinochet murdered many yet Thatcher had him over for tea and bought him a nice fish supper. We are hipocrites and pick and choses our wars. We arm rebels then are surprised when they bite us on the arse. We created this Dam shambles. |
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Post by baggins on Nov 25, 2015 15:48:40 GMT
By putting to death over 300, 000 people in 5 years? Ok. I was being slightly flippant, but how many died in removing him and since? And how many to come? We f**k about in other people's countries when it suits. Pinochet murdered many yet Thatcher had him over for tea and bought him a nice fish supper. We are hipocrites and pick and choses our wars. We arm rebels then are surprised when they bite us on the arse. We created this f**king shambles. That's a weeks worth of dinners and wine discussing that. |
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Post by supergas on Nov 29, 2015 3:21:37 GMT
By putting to death over 300, 000 people in 5 years? Ok. I was being slightly flippant, but how many died in removing him and since? And how many to come? We f**k about in other people's countries when it suits. Pinochet murdered many yet Thatcher had him over for tea and bought him a nice fish supper. We are hipocrites and pick and choses our wars. We arm rebels then are surprised when they bite us on the arse. We created this f**king shambles. And I believe we're truly at a crossroads going forwards...sooner or later we have to step up or duck out - can't keep playing around at the edges of these things. Do we want to be a global power or not? There are loads of people who want us to bail on our nuclear deterrent but also want us to still be at the top table in world politics...I can assure them that once we cancel Trident we're off the UN Security council and welcome to (at best) the Championship of world politics. I'm reminded of Churchill: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." It sounds flippant until you understand the timeline of when he said it....won the war, defeated the Nazis, lost the next General Election. The British people (in general) want one thing, tell the opinion pollsters another and then vote a third way when it counts. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc etc...could the 'West' have fixed any of them? Probably. At a cost acceptable to us? Probably not. Hence we never tried and now we're in the mess we're in. Sooner or later we have to get properly stuck in (like when we divided the region into countries with straight lines on a map) or give up...dunno what will be the best route to take but the so-called 'middle road' is basically a roundabout... |
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