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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 13:11:20 GMT
Since so many non-Labour voters tend to do nothing but criticise the NHS and its inefficiency, and say we should move to a European model based on personal insurance, then those non-Labour voters might now wish to vote to remain. But the referendum is not just about the NHS is it? My point is that Labour are saying Remain to save the NHS, when all the evidence says that to Remain would be the death of the NHS. |
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Post by aghast on Jun 15, 2016 13:56:04 GMT
Just trying to make a few ripples in this calm pool of a thread of unanimous Brexiters.  ? |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 15, 2016 14:21:00 GMT
I voted Remain.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 14:27:13 GMT
Good for you. Everyone should vote for what they believe in. This is a vote where nobody is right, and nobody is wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 14:29:18 GMT
SPLITTER ! You're wrong !  |
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Post by aghast on Jun 15, 2016 14:29:47 GMT
Good for you. Everyone should vote for what they believe in. This is a vote where nobody is right, and nobody is wrong. Very noble response there Nobby. EDIT: saw what you did there |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 14:31:47 GMT
Good for you. Everyone should vote for what they believe in. This is a vote where nobody is right, and nobody is wrong. Very noble response there Nobby. I typed it through gritted teeth. |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 15, 2016 14:47:50 GMT
Good for you. Everyone should vote for what they believe in. This is a vote where nobody is right, and nobody is wrong. Keep your friends close....  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 14:49:28 GMT
Good for you. Everyone should vote for what they believe in. This is a vote where nobody is right, and nobody is wrong. Keep your friends close.... and your enemies under the heel of your boot? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 8:12:40 GMT
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 16, 2016 9:34:48 GMT
But of course it's not about immigration and xenophobia. If Britain is no longer in Europe what do you think will happen in Calais? The French will say "you all want to leave Europe and go to England? Sure, there is a little free space on that lorry. Need a hand up?" They would love the chance to just give them all a free pass through the tunnel and have them be our problem. It's only because we are IN that they don't. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 9:46:39 GMT
Incorrect Hugo.
The deal we have with France is a deal between the two countries, and is not dependent on the UK being in the EU.
This is where the UK politicians have to toughen up. When people arrive in the UK illegally, they should be returned on the very next ferry/train etc from where they came.
In the same way that the EU are feckin up in the Med every day. They have sent EU naval ships to 'rescue' migrants. When the migrants are 'rescued' they are taken to Italy, Greece or Spain. The EU naval ships have just become a glorified ferry service for the people smugglers, who know that they just have to launch overloaded boats into the Med, and the EU naval ships will do the rest.
What should happen is that the 'rescued' migrants should be returned to the nearest shoreline ASAP. That would have stopped the people smugglers in their tracks.
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Post by inee on Jun 17, 2016 10:05:03 GMT
Very noble response there Nobby. I typed it through gritted teeth. Why have you set up camp in baggins mouth??? |
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Post by inee on Jun 17, 2016 10:07:08 GMT
But of course it's not about immigration and xenophobia. If Britain is no longer in Europe what do you think will happen in Calais? The French will say "you all want to leave Europe and go to England? Sure, there is a little free space on that lorry. Need a hand up?" They would love the chance to just give them all a free pass through the tunnel and have them be our problem. It's only because we are IN that they don't. Simple, refurb the iron forts in the sea, refurb pill boxes and get some machine gunners in to sink boats in the channel, say 50p a hit, if you pay low then the gunners will become marksmen to get a living wage, see the positives a few off the dole and into work as customs guys |
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Post by aghast on Jun 19, 2016 20:22:32 GMT
I'll try and tread very carefully here.
The murder of Jo Cox may have harmed the Brexit campaign because the actions of some nutter, who does not represent in any way the legitimate views of those who want to leave, might make some think differently. I'm not trying to point score or influence anyone, but I just wonder if anyone agrees that this terrible incident could actually affect the vote?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 5:02:03 GMT
I'll try and tread very carefully here. The murder of Jo Cox may have harmed the Brexit campaign because the actions of some nutter, who does not represent in any way the legitimate views of those who want to leave, might make some think differently. I'm not trying to point score or influence anyone, but I just wonder if anyone agrees that this terrible incident could actually affect the vote? It is quite obvious that the murder of Jo Cox was just an action by a deluded nutter. It shouldn't have any bearing on the referendum, but there are some in the media who are trying to use the murder in an attempt to sway opinion.......Polly Toynbee in the Guardian is a classic example. The hate/race card is being used by some, and in reality that just detracts from the referendum debate, but how many times have we seen this in the last fifteen years or so? |
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Post by inee on Jun 20, 2016 11:01:11 GMT
I'll try and tread very carefully here. The murder of Jo Cox may have harmed the Brexit campaign because the actions of some nutter, who does not represent in any way the legitimate views of those who want to leave, might make some think differently. I'm not trying to point score or influence anyone, but I just wonder if anyone agrees that this terrible incident could actually affect the vote? It is quite obvious that the murder of Jo Cox was just an action by a deluded nutter. It shouldn't have any bearing on the referendum, but there are some in the media who are trying to use the murder in an attempt to sway opinion.......Polly Toynbee in the Guardian is a classic example. The hate/race card is being used by some, and in reality that just detracts from the referendum debate, but how many times have we seen this in the last fifteen years or so? Nobbs is correct as is aghast, to me using it as an excuse to stop the debates and have the run in low key, it's just not right as it gives the impression that the out campaigners will stop at nothing to win which i have noticed a few remainders are using. Tried watching something on telly about her the other night but had to stop as i was so pished off with the people on there i was about to smash the telly, one guy did stand out but was being poo poo'd by all the others even though he was making perfect sense. The other thing for me is everyone is being fed misinformation on whats going on, ie he said this,he is that, the bloke i mentioned did actually say wait until we get facts. Another thing that really got me excessively angry was some daft woman saying this was the first shooting of an mp, well sorry but don't forget one mp who was shot and killed by the ira in the 80's, the cheltenham mp who were attacked with a sword. I'm not saying this isn't a tragic incident more get your fecking facts correct before pretending this is the only mp to be murdered. |
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Post by Big Jock on Jun 20, 2016 17:35:25 GMT
It is quite obvious that the murder of Jo Cox was just an action by a deluded nutter. It shouldn't have any bearing on the referendum, but there are some in the media who are trying to use the murder in an attempt to sway opinion.......Polly Toynbee in the Guardian is a classic example. The hate/race card is being used by some, and in reality that just detracts from the referendum debate, but how many times have we seen this in the last fifteen years or so? Nobbs is correct as is aghast, to me using it as an excuse to stop the debates and have the run in low key, it's just not right as it gives the impression that the out campaigners will stop at nothing to win which i have noticed a few remainders are using. Tried watching something on telly about her the other night but had to stop as i was so pished off with the people on there i was about to smash the telly, one guy did stand out but was being poo poo'd by all the others even though he was making perfect sense. The other thing for me is everyone is being fed misinformation on whats going on, ie he said this,he is that, the bloke i mentioned did actually say wait until we get facts. Another thing that really got me excessively angry was some daft woman saying this was the first shooting of an mp, well sorry but don't forget one mp who was shot and killed by the ira in the 80's, the cheltenham mp who were attacked with a sword. I'm not saying this isn't a tragic incident more get your fecking facts correct before pretending this is the only mp to be murdered. Vote remain or yous will wake up a racist, slap yur missus, have nae food tae eat an th' world will blow up within a week. i think thit sums up th' "remain" position Innee |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 20, 2016 18:05:59 GMT
Nobbs is correct as is aghast, to me using it as an excuse to stop the debates and have the run in low key, it's just not right as it gives the impression that the out campaigners will stop at nothing to win which i have noticed a few remainders are using. Tried watching something on telly about her the other night but had to stop as i was so pished off with the people on there i was about to smash the telly, one guy did stand out but was being poo poo'd by all the others even though he was making perfect sense. The other thing for me is everyone is being fed misinformation on whats going on, ie he said this,he is that, the bloke i mentioned did actually say wait until we get facts. Another thing that really got me excessively angry was some daft woman saying this was the first shooting of an mp, well sorry but don't forget one mp who was shot and killed by the ira in the 80's, the cheltenham mp who were attacked with a sword. I'm not saying this isn't a tragic incident more get your fecking facts correct before pretending this is the only mp to be murdered. Vote remain or yous will wake up a racist, slap yur missus, have nae food tae eat an th' world will blow up within a week. i think thit sums up th' "remain" position Innee Aye, because the Leave campaign have been completely above making equally ridiculous and unproven statements. Both sides have been utterly reprehensible throughout this campaign and have further tarnished the already poor perception of politics in this country. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 6:13:53 GMT
Yes, both sides have made stupid claims.
However, the Leave people can be excused to a certain degree as this is a situation that has never happened before, anywhere, so to forecast what would happen in the event of a Brexit is a bit of a finger in the air exercise. Plus the Leave campaign has been denied access to the Civil Service, and the mountain of information they hold. The Leave campaign just do not have access to the real information, numbers and figures.
For me, and this is the main failure, and it's that the Remain group, with their access to that mountain of information, have not provided any positive data regarding staying in the EU. All we have heard from them is how bad it will be if we leave, and once again, that is just waving a finger in the air because nobody really knows what will happen. However, they DO have access to all the necessary information, numbers and figures, yet they appear to be unable to provide anything positive.
Basically, it's best to avoid all the waffle, opinions and hot air and concentrate on the one real single issue.
Do people want an independent sovereign country, free to make their own laws and elect their own government, or do they want to become a region in the Federal State of Europe, where laws are made by unelected officials, with no remit to vote them out of office?
and it really is that simple. Everything else is just window dressing.
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