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Post by Bill Bones on Jun 24, 2016 11:56:51 GMT
I think the most worrying thing about all of this is arguably Cameron's resignation. The worry is that he sees things we don't and has woken up and gone "sh*t this is going to be a mess, better get myself as far away as possible". Add that to the fact that, regardless of what you think of him, he is an evidently competent politician, unlike many of the others. I pray that Corbyn stays, because it's the only surefire way to prevent a labour government in the event of a general election due to a new Tory leader. All of this from somebody who voted Leave - but as much as I believe it will do us good in the long run, there will be a period of instability, which Cameron's resignation will exacerbate. u Surely it was inevitable Cameron would leave if he couldn't have enough influence on us to vote remain? You could certainly make that argument, and undoubtedly it's a failure on Cameron's part. Although I'm not sure how relevant that is - ideally Cameron shouldn't have taken a side to the extent that he did, but it happened and I'd still argue that in the short term we'd have benefitted from the stability of his remaining.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 24, 2016 12:49:04 GMT
u Surely it was inevitable Cameron would leave if he couldn't have enough influence on us to vote remain? You could certainly make that argument, and undoubtedly it's a failure on Cameron's part. Although I'm not sure how relevant that is - ideally Cameron shouldn't have taken a side to the extent that he did, but it happened and I'd still argue that in the short term we'd have benefitted from the stability of his remaining. Cameron proved just how out of touch the posh Oxbridge " ruling classes" are with the rest of us. If he'd actually listened he would have known just how much ill feeling there was towards the EU and he'd have known it was too big a risk to take. Let's not forget it was him that promised this referendum in the first place. I've no sympathy for him but perhaps a little more respect. He staked his Leadership on this and got it wrong but at least he had the balls to risk it and the good grace to accept his failure and resign.
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Post by baggins on Jun 24, 2016 13:03:41 GMT
You could certainly make that argument, and undoubtedly it's a failure on Cameron's part. Although I'm not sure how relevant that is - ideally Cameron shouldn't have taken a side to the extent that he did, but it happened and I'd still argue that in the short term we'd have benefitted from the stability of his remaining. Cameron proved just how out of touch the posh Oxbridge " ruling classes" are with the rest of us. If he'd actually listened he would have known just how much ill feeling there was towards the EU and he'd have known it was too big a risk to take. Let's not forget it was him that promised this referendum in the first place. I've no sympathy for him but perhaps a little more respect. He staked his Leadership on this and got it wrong but at least he had the balls to risk it and the good grace to accept his failure and resign. Who asked for the referendum?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 13:24:46 GMT
Cameron proved just how out of touch the posh Oxbridge " ruling classes" are with the rest of us. If he'd actually listened he would have known just how much ill feeling there was towards the EU and he'd have known it was too big a risk to take. Let's not forget it was him that promised this referendum in the first place. I've no sympathy for him but perhaps a little more respect. He staked his Leadership on this and got it wrong but at least he had the balls to risk it and the good grace to accept his failure and resign. Who asked for the referendum? Cameron had to promise a referendum before the last General Electon to stop Tory votes going to UKIP.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 24, 2016 13:38:50 GMT
Who asked for the referendum? Cameron had to promise a referendum before the last General Electon to stop Tory votes going to UKIP. He didn't HAVE to. He risked it all to shore up Tory support and stop infighting. Given how disastrous he said leaving would be wasn't he rather stupid and selfish to risk our entire Nations future just to get 4 more years in power? What a w**ker.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 14:26:16 GMT
It may be UK taxpayer money but do you think it would really have gone to wales ? Or another train line for london..... 28% of voters in the UK didn't bother to vote...so well under half the people voted to leave the EU....the non vote should always be included in the result . Will France now be obliged to stop migrants getting on boats to come to the UK ? Genuine question as I don't know. I'm sure the people of Calais etc will be more than happy for the issue to move to Dover ,Weymouth,plymouth,southampton etc. You have to understand EU Grants. They would only fund 50% (max) of any project. The British Government would then fund the other 50%. So, a new road built in Wales may have 'funded by the EU' signs plastered everywhere, but in reality, 100% of the cost came from the British Taxpayer as the 50% frm the EU would just be taken from the billions we pay them! Yes, France are obliged to stop illegals travelling to the UK. This is an agreement between the UK and France to have passport control on the French side of the channel. This has nothing to do with the EU. Are you really naïve enough to believe that France,Belgium etc will honour an agreement made with an ex member of their club,not a chance of that happening,as soon as the necessary forms have been delivered to the EC commission that agreement will be torn up and the flood of immigrants we were warned to expect if we stayed in will happen. Your other point about grants is valid but do you expect that a London based government will favour a new road in Wales over anything that helps London,not going to happen,the Tory S>E will run the country like they did prior to 1973 and you will have no say in it because there will be a continual Tory government once Scotland has got its independence
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 18:08:14 GMT
I'll say it again. The Channel Agreement is between the UK and France. It has nothing, repeat, nothing to do with the EU. As for the new road I will repeat myself once again. A 50% grant from the EU is in fact British Taxpayers money, so, the British Government do already pay the 100% for that road.
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Post by inee on Jun 24, 2016 19:36:39 GMT
I think the most worrying thing about all of this is arguably Cameron's resignation. The worry is that he sees things we don't and has woken up and gone "sh*t this is going to be a mess, better get myself as far away as possible". Add that to the fact that, regardless of what you think of him, he is an evidently competent politician, unlike many of the others. I pray that Corbyn stays, because it's the only surefire way to prevent a labour government in the event of a general election due to a new Tory leader. All of this from somebody who voted Leave - but as much as I believe it will do us good in the long run, there will be a period of instability, which Cameron's resignation will exacerbate. u Surely it was inevitable Cameron would leave if he couldn't have enough influence on us to vote remain? Sadly the answer is yes, however it shouldn't have been, cameron did what he promised(albeit due to throwing toys out of his pram) so in effect it shouldn't have made a jot of difference to his job, rather interestingly people are calling for corbin to go as well as the same thing you said is being levelled at him too. I have loved this vote as at the end of the day it was a simple yes no, based solely on an individuals bent, the vast majority of people would have already made up their minds as soon as the referendum was announced, i still can't believe the remainers are banging the same old drum , i.e referring to leavers as in effect dumb bigots, what has made me chuckle today is some of europe's leaders comments as in the threats etc, others have said well done to the uk for listening to the people, others are relieved we are out as it paves the way for their own referendums. Yup the pounds down but it will recover Just had to chuckle was reading something online and it mentioned a bloke who is now upset because we left, he himself voted leave, also a woman has done much the same, it does beggar the question why are these people allowed to vote and how on earth are they allowed out on their own
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Post by inee on Jun 24, 2016 19:39:07 GMT
Good opportunities in black shirt manufacturing I hear Send one here in fat bastard size please
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Post by inee on Jun 24, 2016 19:40:36 GMT
All the Nazis all over Europe celebrating this great victory #fellowtravellers I thought nsdap was disbanded after the war
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Post by inee on Jun 24, 2016 19:41:18 GMT
All the Nazis all over Europe celebrating this great victory #fellowtravellers Nazi farmers? Be very wary of the scarecrows at those farms mind ,they will have funny hair and tash
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Post by jaggas on Jun 24, 2016 20:03:07 GMT
Cameron had to promise a referendum before the last General Electon to stop Tory votes going to UKIP. He didn't HAVE to. He risked it all to shore up Tory support and stop infighting. Given how disastrous he said leaving would be wasn't he rather stupid and selfish to risk our entire Nations future just to get 4 more years in power? What a w**ker. Cameron was backed into a corner by his own party and the rise of UKIP.He went into those negotiations with the EU holding all the aces but he blinked first and came back saying he had got us a good deal when infact he got nothing.He could have got away with it if he hadn`t of campaigned so hard with nothing.The EU called his bluff and the biggest losers in this are Cameron himself, his despicable chancellor and the EU who didn`t think for second we would vote leave.
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Post by aghast on Jun 24, 2016 21:08:46 GMT
i think this is a terrible day for us and the future of Europe, with nationalism and extremism already rearing their ugly heads. But on this thread on this forum, I am in a tiny minority. So I won't expand upon that.
The other thing I think is that we need a General Election. With Cameron gone and Corbyn doomed, we will have new party leaders of the two main parties. There will be new cabinets and shadow cabinets, and a whole host of new policies to cope with the radically new world we now face. As it stands, a bunch of MPs in the Tory party are going to decide the future of the U.K. for the next few years, but everything has changed now. The two parties will have different views about how to handle the exit, and I think the voters should be able to decide who can best manage it. This wasn't a vote about how the Tories can take us out of Europe. It was a vote to leave, albeit by a small majority. The result, and the intention to leave the EU, has been decided, and that must now happen. But who does it, and how they do it, hasn't been voted upon. This is a massive event, akin to the decision about who governs Britain after WW2 ended.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 0:18:07 GMT
On my mothers life, and on the soul of Bristol Rovers, I genuinely discussed Brexit with an Algerian taxi driver, an Indian waiter and my ex wife who is Russian descent.
All of them supported Brexit - as they felt it discriminated against their countrymen. All were patriots - of course, to their own country, but to their new home - Britain.
All love this country and the unbelievable tolerance and acceptance we show to others. We are seen mainly as "straight". They love our sense of justice, fair play and willingness to support the underdog. Out police don't get bribed or ask for them. Our schools treat their kids as equals and respect their customs whilst engendering and fostering a mutual love of Britain. I have as much respect for these immigrants as anyone else who bears the union flag and embraces our values. What we all agreed is we despise the self hating masochists that have had their mind warped by historical revisionists who believe western culture is the cause of the worlds evils. The PC tossers so intent on demonising White British people as racists despite the whole world respecting our tolerance and sense of equality for all.
I will stand shoulder to shoulder to any black, brown, green or yellow Britain. Respect the flag, respect the laws and you are all welcome. This isn't about xenophobia, or race. We all stand together under one nation - and we all agree, despite our birthplace, that Britain kicks ass. Have pride as our migrants do. Anyone respecting our country regardless of colour of background is as valid as I - a true British born person. This isn't about jingoisnm - it's a revolt - a working clas revolt against unelected beurocrats, and moving cheap labour about to suit the whims of the Giants - Goldman Sachs, big bisiness, political classes.
Common sense has prevailed - those of us who remember the days when the EU was what it was supposed to be - a reading block, remement how most people could afford a home. Most people could survive on a low income without living in dank shared accommodation. I left school at 16 and got a good job, which lead to a great career - good luck to kids doing that now with 30 something poles offering better skills for the same money. But the luvvies don't care - it's a Marxists project to rob us of this, to fill the pockets of our owners. Well done Britain A Algerians, Russians and Indians alike. We beat the lies and spin and the working class (not me, but I fight for the rights of the poor) have beaten the middle class, cosseted idiots who have no idea what housing and services pressure feel like, from their cosy jobs and 300k homes.
Power to the people. This resembles the 60s civil rights movement - the downtrodden v the establishment
We lost 20000 men in the Somme in 1916, my guess is they died defending the Union Jack, not 12 stars of a German run Europe.
You've done them proud. I can hear the cheering from those Flanders poppy fields....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 4:23:38 GMT
On my mothers life, and on the soul of Bristol Rovers, I genuinely discussed Brexit with an Algerian taxi driver, an Indian waiter and my ex wife who is Russian descent. All of them supported Brexit - as they felt it discriminated against their countrymen. All were patriots - of course, to their own country, but to their new home - Britain. All love this country and the unbelievable tolerance and acceptance we show to others. We are seen mainly as "straight". They love our sense of justice, fair play and willingness to support the underdog. Out police don't get bribed or ask for them. Our schools treat their kids as equals and respect their customs whilst engendering and fostering a mutual love of Britain. I have as much respect for these immigrants as anyone else who bears the union flag and embraces our values. What we all agreed is we despise the self hating masochists that have had their mind warped by historical revisionists who believe western culture is the cause of the worlds evils. The PC tossers so intent on demonising White British people as racists despite the whole world respecting our tolerance and sense of equality for all. I will stand shoulder to shoulder to any black, brown, green or yellow Britain. Respect the flag, respect the laws and you are all welcome. This isn't about xenophobia, or race. We all stand together under one nation - and we all agree, despite our birthplace, that Britain kicks ass. Have pride as our migrants do. Anyone respecting our country regardless of colour of background is as valid as I - a true British born person. This isn't about jingoisnm - it's a revolt - a working clas revolt against unelected beurocrats, and moving cheap labour about to suit the whims of the Giants - Goldman Sachs, big bisiness, political classes. Common sense has prevailed - those of us who remember the days when the EU was what it was supposed to be - a reading block, remement how most people could afford a home. Most people could survive on a low income without living in dank shared accommodation. I left school at 16 and got a good job, which lead to a great career - good luck to kids doing that now with 30 something poles offering better skills for the same money. But the luvvies don't care - it's a Marxists project to rob us of this, to fill the pockets of our owners. Well done Britain A Algerians, Russians and Indians alike. We beat the lies and spin and the working class (not me, but I fight for the rights of the poor) have beaten the middle class, cosseted idiots who have no idea what housing and services pressure feel like, from their cosy jobs and 300k homes. Power to the people. This resembles the 60s civil rights movement - the downtrodden v the establishment We lost 20000 men in the Somme in 1916, my guess is they died defending the Union Jack, not 12 stars of a German run Europe. You've done them proud. I can hear the cheering from those Flanders poppy fields.... Drivel, utter drivel
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Post by peterparker on Jun 25, 2016 6:37:13 GMT
i think this is a terrible day for us and the future of Europe, with nationalism and extremism already rearing their ugly heads. But on this thread on this forum, I am in a tiny minority. So I won't expand upon that. The other thing I think is that we need a General Election. With Cameron gone and Corbyn doomed, we will have new party leaders of the two main parties. There will be new cabinets and shadow cabinets, and a whole host of new policies to cope with the radically new world we now face. As it stands, a bunch of MPs in the Tory party are going to decide the future of the U.K. for the next few years, but everything has changed now. The two parties will have different views about how to handle the exit, and I think the voters should be able to decide who can best manage it. This wasn't a vote about how the Tories can take us out of Europe. It was a vote to leave, albeit by a small majority. The result, and the intention to leave the EU, has been decided, and that must now happen. But who does it, and how they do it, hasn't been voted upon. This is a massive event, akin to the decision about who governs Britain after WW2 ended. This is the thing that gets me. How many of the 52% will go back to Tory bashing, bemoaning cuts and calling them scum etc? We will now get a PM none of us will have elected in any form. Farage will no doubt revert to slagging them off when they dont obtain the deals he beleives we should get Corbyn will be gone as well. Hopefully this time they might end up with a half decent leader who might be able to exert some life into the party instead of the lame duck that it is. And the big irony of course sections of Scotland and NI questioning their own Union again
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 8:10:21 GMT
This is the thing that gets me. How many of the 52% will go back to Tory bashing, bemoaning cuts and calling them scum etc? - Why not? The vote was about the EU, not domestic politics (as such). Of course you should complain if you think the government are not doing the right thing. We can leave out the scum nonsense though. No need for that sort of language in our new world of politics.
We will now get a PM none of us will have elected in any form. Farage will no doubt revert to slagging them off when they dont obtain the deals he beleives we should get - The only people who 'elect' the PM are the Party.
Corbyn will be gone as well. Hopefully this time they might end up with a half decent leader who might be able to exert some life into the party instead of the lame duck that it is. - Yes, Corbyn should go, but on a personal level I hope he stays as with him as it's Leader, the Labour Party are totally unelectable.
And the big irony of course sections of Scotland and NI questioning their own Union again - NI are not questioning the Union. I think you'll find it's the IRA apologists that are doing that. As for Scotland, well, it could never survive on it's own.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 8:16:11 GMT
"i think this is a terrible day for us and the future of Europe, with nationalism and extremism already rearing their ugly heads. But on this thread on this forum, I am in a tiny minority. So I won't expand upon that."
I am starting to get fed-up reading things like this. The implication that because I voted to Leave that it makes me some sort of Nationalistic extremist. It is Europe that has given the world extreme right and left wing politics, not the UK. Historically, it is the UK that has stood up to extremists, both political and religious. Historically, the UK has shunned extreme politics..................so why do people think it's ok to throw these feckin lazy insults my way?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 8:48:46 GMT
"i think this is a terrible day for us and the future of Europe, with nationalism and extremism already rearing their ugly heads. But on this thread on this forum, I am in a tiny minority. So I won't expand upon that." I am starting to get fed-up reading things like this. The implication that because I voted to Leave that it makes me some sort of Nationalistic extremist. It is Europe that has given the world extreme right and left wing politics, not the UK. Historically, it is the UK that has stood up to extremists, both political and religious. Historically, the UK has shunned extreme politics..................so why do people think it's ok to throw these feckin lazy insults my way? Nobby - they know damn well you, and any brexiteer is not generally a racist or extremist. This view is propoganda in the offices of left wing political parties and also in the university common rooms, where politically motivated lecturers indoctrinate children and young adults in to supporting causes that they personally benefit from. They know it damn well, but it's been used to trigger a shame reflex in their opponents, accusations is all they have. They were more than happy to cover up racially targeted gang rape of white children - not just ordinary kids, but ones from broken homes, girls with nobody who really cares for them. They are the racists. Political maslchists who get a little thrill from the injustices they meter out - well, the British did some bad things 300 years ago, we feel guilty. We are not willing to give up our nice jobs and jokes to help, but the muggins working class will pay for us - so dump them in poor northern towns, miles away from us, and when they run amock they smirk as its all those historical wrongs being righted- of course, their kids will go to nice schools wa speaking one language. Oh, and if they complain - it's the fault of the council not building enough homes. Or because British people are lazy. Or, in the case of Rotherham, those girls were prostitutes making their own choices. That was the line of the police and authorities. We are not the disgusting ones. Labour will never be back. We won't forget the social cleansing they did.
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Post by aghast on Jun 25, 2016 8:50:55 GMT
"i think this is a terrible day for us and the future of Europe, with nationalism and extremism already rearing their ugly heads. But on this thread on this forum, I am in a tiny minority. So I won't expand upon that." I am starting to get fed-up reading things like this. The implication that because I voted to Leave that it makes me some sort of Nationalistic extremist. It is Europe that has given the world extreme right and left wing politics, not the UK. Historically, it is the UK that has stood up to extremists, both political and religious. Historically, the UK has shunned extreme politics..................so why do people think it's ok to throw these feckin lazy insults my way? Well you got that one wrong. My comments weren't aimed at you in any way, shape or form, and I have no idea why you think they might be. I was talking about responses to the result elsewhere in Europe.
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