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Post by inee on May 26, 2016 15:22:30 GMT
As opposed to the liars and scaremongerers on the other side who say the whole thing is German conspiracy to win WWII by stealth, the EU is creating a superstate a la Hitler, our bananas will have to be straight, our chocolate cannot be called chocolate, we are forced to allow free entry to evil Eastern European criminals, and we will be forced to have a quota of gypsy MPs, There has been so much bollox on both sides and neither has much credibility in my view. I try and read the American and Asian newspapers online to see if they have a more impartial view, but I think the truth, as I suspected all along, is that nobody knows if it would be better for us to leave or stay. I'm no liar or scaremonger , i bought up in one of these threads (a long while back the points of the eu mirroring some of the third reich's policies on europe, these are not exaggerations but existed back then and exist now, but because the name hitler is used everybody seems to go on shutdown and shout racist or antisemitic etc. Where instead they maybe should do a little research look at some of hitler's land and worker resettlement plans (now called eu migration) and its almost the same. An awful lot of companies that funded the third reich are still around now and doing very well, The real problem with boris is that he jumped on this and in doing so came across wrong, all he had to do was read up on it, before opening his trap. free entry to evil Eastern European criminals this happens as well you cant deny it it's well documented ,it's well known but we choose to do nothing about it as the EU will not allow it. but it's also criminals from other countries that are over here. one example is a torturer living in bristol who was a state police enforcer in his own country came her claimed that he would be killed back home so is allowed to stay. What really gets on my tits these days is crime cannot be reported factually as it's no longer allowed to group crimes by the type of person committing them, just another way to pretend immigration works and is very rosy in this country, if only we had an immigration policy like that of australia, then things would be a lot better. Be wary of the yank press as it's more restricted than ours, take 911 as an example a well known american activist had to keep looking online to the uk as the media reports were more accurate than the yank ones. You are correct no one knows what will happen either way, however this country has survived for a long time on its own and also as a union, but has been weakened since joining the EU . look back to things like the frogs blockading british goods at the ports years back. we didn't crumble go to war or die did we. For me i want out, just think of what this country could do with the millions a day we give to europe, kin hell we could build enough council homes country wide in very short order to completely obliviate homelessness, but no lets continue to spunk money against the wall to europe as lets face it who gives a f**k about the people on the streets many of whom have fought for this country only to be sh** on on discharge and left to fend for themselves, but most dont realise and just see homeless people as druggie wasters, we are all only a few months from being homeless if life takes a sh** on you.
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Post by jaggas on May 28, 2016 18:43:53 GMT
Yes, but I was talking about ludicrous scaremongering. What you've described is a political process which all states will have a say in. Using the dreaded Hitler term to describe the potential European state conjures up visions of jackboots, tanks and atrocities, which is why Boris used it. The scaremongering seems to be coming from the remain side with a new story every day to scare the sh** out of people in the hope that they will vote to remain in.When the scare story comes out the brexit crew have to respond and say its a load of bollox.I think the way Cameron and Osborne have conducted themselves has been an absolute disgrace and after the referendum the pair of them should be fired. The way they have talked Britain down into being some pathetic little nation that couldn`t possibly cope without subsidising irrelevant countries like Lithuania and Latvia is a f%cking disgrace. Britain survives and thrives outside the EU that is obvious just like we have thrived outside the Euro when cretins like Blair, Mandleson and all the pro EU mob said we couldn`t. Nothing will change Stuarts mind he is a Labour voter even though his party leader has campaigned all his life to get out the EU just like former Labour leader Kinnock did.Kinnock and his bitch wife and his sons are all employed by the EU they are given over £2m per year for being part of an institution Brother Kinnock hated. If Like Stuart you vote to remain in the EU on the way back from the polling station visit your local war memorial and take a sh** or a water on it because by voting remain you are sh%%ting on the memory of every person who fought and died to keep this country free from the tyranny of Europe.
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Post by aghast on May 28, 2016 20:19:31 GMT
My dad fought in the war and was a proud member of the Fleet Air Arm. He was a Labour supporter all his life, and after the war always supported stronger European integration to prevent the same thing ever happening again.
I can't say any more, because I have to go and sh*t on his grave.
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Post by stuart1974 on May 28, 2016 22:07:08 GMT
Hi Jaggas, I assume it was me you were referring to in your post.
Just wanted to point out that I am not a Labour voter, not sure what gave you that impression. I have voted every time since I turned 18 in 1992 including local and European elections and can honestly say I rarely voted for a Labour candidate in that time. My politics is pretty middle the road and I will vote for whomever I see best at the time as an MP.
With regards to the EU, there are times when I feel I could vote out. I take on board what the views are of many people and will make my mind up on that. As things stand, I am not convinced by the leave campaigners that we will be better off. My final decision at the ballot box is likely to remain but it will be my interpretation of what is going to be best for my family and my country. Nobody can say for sure either way.
I am a political and military historian by hobby so I am fully aware of what has happened. It is a shame that you mentioned war memorials in this debate and clearly Aghast is not impressed by it either. Being one of the more cerebral posters on this forum maybe you ought to think about what he has written. Neither side has a monopoly on being truthful or not scaremongering (just see the recent Commons report on the campaigns) but both sides need to be listened to with an open mind.
With regards to my own views and visiting the local memorial, I don't need to as I already do. I have also visited many in Europe and the US, including Tyne Cot and Menin Gate in Belgium and the American cemetary in Normandy, plus the National Memorial Arboretum. They are very humbling places and I recommend a visit to any of them if you haven't already.
I came on the original thread in order to correct a few misconceptions and to genuinely help Gaz and Hugo by trying to give a little balance. It was my intention to ensure my posts were factual and backed up by sources as is my nature. This has taken some time which I can ill afford at the moment so stopped and only came back when something was written about which I felt compelled to respond to, so congratulations on getting me to post yet again when I should be elsewhere.
It seems to me that most on here have already made their choices so I will refrain from engaging further and bid you a goodnight.
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Post by jaggas on May 28, 2016 22:22:18 GMT
My dad fought in the war and was a proud member of the Fleet Air Arm. He was a Labour supporter all his life, and after the war always supported stronger European integration to prevent the same thing ever happening again. I can't say any more, because I have to go and sh*t on his grave. So your Dad fought in the war against Nazi Germany in the hope that post war the Germans would emerge the strongest and force greater integration even if it means countries like Greece go to the wall? Take a sh** on his grave after you vote to remain in................Your mind is obviously made up.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 13:52:01 GMT
"So CMD's negotiations, already 3 months old, get debated by the MEP's, after the 23rd of June. Romano Prodi wants a word with us about the future of our veto, after the 23rd of June. Mogerhini wants to release her plans on the EU Army, after the 23rd of June."
Why are these issues being deferred until after the 23rd June? If they are good things, then why wait?
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Post by William Wilson on Jun 1, 2016 14:09:41 GMT
"So CMD's negotiations, already 3 months old, get debated by the MEP's, after the 23rd of June. Romano Prodi wants a word with us about the future of our veto, after the 23rd of June. Mogerhini wants to release her plans on the EU Army, after the 23rd of June." Why are these issues being deferred until after the 23rd June? If they are good things, then why wait? F F`s sake, Nobby. Didn`t the army teach you to read? Or listen? If we vote to leave, we`re all going to be wiped out by a giant asteroid. Stop inciting people to do something sensible. Edit..I meant suicidal.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 14:19:41 GMT
"So CMD's negotiations, already 3 months old, get debated by the MEP's, after the 23rd of June. Romano Prodi wants a word with us about the future of our veto, after the 23rd of June. Mogerhini wants to release her plans on the EU Army, after the 23rd of June." Why are these issues being deferred until after the 23rd June? If they are good things, then why wait? F F`s sake, Nobby. Didn`t the army teach you to read? Or listen? If we vote to leave, we`re all going to be wiped out by a giant asteroid. Stop inciting people to do something sensible. Edit..I meant suicidal. You forgot about WW3, House prices crashing, wages dropping, more expensive flights, job losses, etc etc. CMD did say that if he didn't get a good result in his renegotiation's with the EU, he'd campaign to Leave. So, to get a few concessions on Polish people being able to claim Child Benefit, he was prepared to accept all of that ! Isn't it strange that CMD and George Osborne can predict all of this, yet they can't even predict what will happen to the British economy in the next year !....well, they can predict, but so far they've got it wrong every year !
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Post by William Wilson on Jun 1, 2016 17:30:25 GMT
F F`s sake, Nobby. Didn`t the army teach you to read? Or listen? If we vote to leave, we`re all going to be wiped out by a giant asteroid. Stop inciting people to do something sensible. Edit..I meant suicidal. You forgot about WW3, House prices crashing, wages dropping, more expensive flights, job losses, etc etc. CMD did say that if he didn't get a good result in his renegotiation's with the EU, he'd campaign to Leave. So, to get a few concessions on Polish people being able to claim Child Benefit, he was prepared to accept all of that ! Isn't it strange that CMD and George Osborne can predict all of this, yet they can't even predict what will happen to the British economy in the next year !....well, they can predict, but so far they've got it wrong every year ! It`s not strange at all , Nobby. Cameron and Osborne want to continue having their photos taken alongside the other leaders who "run " Europe. Something nice for them to look back on in later life, while they wait to be called upstairs for a chat with Harold McMillan. They`re not going to do anything to endanger that. Cameron`s attitude has been the same from the start. His message to the EU was pretty much, " If you don`t agree to reform, I shall recommend to the British people that they vote to remain." Does anybody seriously think that he was going to wring any concessions from Brussels, with that approach? PS. I wonder what odds I`d get, on Lee Brown casting the deciding vote in the second minute of injury time?
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Post by inee on Jun 2, 2016 9:04:24 GMT
You forgot about WW3, House prices crashing, wages dropping, more expensive flights, job losses, etc etc. CMD did say that if he didn't get a good result in his renegotiation's with the EU, he'd campaign to Leave. So, to get a few concessions on Polish people being able to claim Child Benefit, he was prepared to accept all of that ! Isn't it strange that CMD and George Osborne can predict all of this, yet they can't even predict what will happen to the British economy in the next year !....well, they can predict, but so far they've got it wrong every year ! It`s not strange at all , Nobby. Cameron and Osborne want to continue having their photos taken alongside the other leaders who "run " Europe. Something nice for them to look back on in later life, while they wait to be called upstairs for a chat with Harold McMillan. They`re not going to do anything to endanger that. Cameron`s attitude has been the same from the start. His message to the EU was pretty much, " If you don`t agree to reform, I shall recommend to the British people that they vote to remain." Does anybody seriously think that he was going to wring any concessions from Brussels, with that approach? PS. I wonder what odds I`d get, on Lee Brown casting the deciding vote in the second minute of injury time? No cameron and osbourne want to play the panzer commander and the milkmaid game so the whole of europe can take turns in slamming those dick in doors I fookin love it as cameron gave it the big un threw his toys out of the pram and said we's havin a referendum bob, to get his own way, but now obamallamadingdong has spoken he's sh** his nappy and is desperately trying to stay in so he can keep playing soggy biscuit in the whitwe house on official visits.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 17:35:36 GMT
Another thing.........If leaving the EU will crash the economy, that implies that being in the EU is good for the economy. What do the people of Greece, Portugal, Spain, Cyprus, Ireland, Italy etc etc think about that assumption?
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Post by aghast on Jun 2, 2016 20:26:29 GMT
Another thing.........If leaving the EU will crash the economy, that implies that being in the EU is good for the economy. What do the people of Greece, Portugal, Spain, Cyprus, Ireland, Italy etc etc think about that assumption? I think they would blame their governments for allowing them to spend and borrow like maniacs, without warning them there would be a worldwide banking crash originating in America.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 7:35:31 GMT
Anyone watch Cameron last night on Sky? The audience were really watered off!
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Post by supergas on Jun 3, 2016 12:03:46 GMT
Another thing.........If leaving the EU will crash the economy, that implies that being in the EU is good for the economy. What do the people of Greece, Portugal, Spain, Cyprus, Ireland, Italy etc etc think about that assumption? I think they would blame their governments for allowing them to spend and borrow like maniacs, without warning them there would be a worldwide banking crash originating in America. And still the 'left' in the UK say 'Austerity' is a bad thing and would happily spend more than they make in income for years and years until the next crash. It's not called 'Austerity' it's called living within your means.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 12:19:55 GMT
It will be interesting to see the audience reaction to Gove tonight, as I have a theory that all of the polls are totally wrong, in the same way they were for the last General Election. I believe the 'Out' votes will outnumber the 'In' votes by a considerable margin. I base my assumption just by listening to my friends and family. Even if you read any EU related articles online, the comments section below are almost always heavily populated by 'out' voters.
My impression from the Cameron show last night is that people are fed-up, and now also very aware, that every Government we have had since entering the Common Market have fed the public a diet of lies. Even now, the 'In' campaign refuse to say what the end game is for the EU. We all know that the end game is a Federal State of Europe, yet not a single person from high up is prepared to admit this !
Last night, Cameron said that the EU could impose a 10% tariff on cars manufactured in the UK if we leave. Fine, then just impose a 12% tariff on cars manufactured in the EU. After all, we import more than we export to the EU. Within a week there will be no Tariff's.
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Post by William Wilson on Jun 4, 2016 6:50:08 GMT
It will be interesting to see the audience reaction to Gove tonight, as I have a theory that all of the polls are totally wrong, in the same way they were for the last General Election. I believe the 'Out' votes will outnumber the 'In' votes by a considerable margin. I don`t disagree with your views on the EU, but I do with your prediction for the big day. I can see the remain camp winning, by roughly the same margin that the remain camp won the Scottish referendum. 55-45. I know you`ve never forgiven the French for the wound you received at Salamanca, Nobby, but the majority of people alive today in the UK, have never known anything other than life in the EU. On June 23rd, they`ll think "f**k it" and vote to stay. But I hope, I`m wrong and you`re not.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 6, 2016 9:31:05 GMT
Postal vote time for me now.
Really still unsure about how I should vote.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 9:54:23 GMT
JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs both say Remain. Today, Cameron is sharing a platform with the Lib Dems and the leader of the Green Party to tell you to Remain. Every financial institute that backed the UK entry into the Euro are saying Remain. Every politician that backed entry into the Euro are saying Remain. Big business is saying Remain.
Doesn't all of that tell you something?
And today's big media question is......
Can you name the five President's of the EU? Y'know, the five people that will have the biggest influence on how the Euro Region previously known as the UK, will be governed? Did you elect any of them? Can you remove them?
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Post by William Wilson on Jun 6, 2016 10:34:44 GMT
JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs both say Remain. Today, Cameron is sharing a platform with the Lib Dems and the leader of the Green Party to tell you to Remain. Every financial institute that backed the UK entry into the Euro are saying Remain. Every politician that backed entry into the Euro are saying Remain. Big business is saying Remain. Doesn't all of that tell you something? And today's big media question is...... Can you name the five President's of the EU? Y'know, the five people that will have the biggest influence on how the Euro Region previously known as the UK, will be governed? Did you elect any of them? Can you remove them? And how about John Major? "It`s a cold world outside the ERM." He was disastrously wrong then, but up he pops, flailing away on behalf of the remain cause. I`d sooner take advice from my wife, on how to avoid spending too much when I go shopping.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 11:02:16 GMT
"MPs 'considering using majority' to keep UK in single market" BBC News
If they do this, then I expect to see real trouble on the streets of Britain ! Don't these feckers understand that they are 'elected' by the people?
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