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Post by peterparker on Sept 4, 2016 8:53:05 GMT
I guess the big question is why actually do the FL want to stop mid week games/increase the FL to 100 clubs, when there seems so little support from the FL's own clubs? If Man U etc aren't interested in the EFL Trophy it's not as if they are desperate to play more games against FL sides to replace the lost mid week games. As far as the Checktrade games if fans boycotting them doesn't send out a clear message fans don't want them I don't know what else does. Perhaps a boycott the final could be the killer if one U23 team gets there, as that's where the most money is made for FL clubs? Perhaps they should make the FL smaller? That would go down well. I dont think there is anytbing inherently wrong with standardising the league at 5 divisions of 20 if done right. Going by the letter and its rough outline this weekend would be have been a potential JPT group game instead of a league fixture for instance. It would actually be wrong for the FL to not discuss change with all the money flowing into the Prem and not looking to improve/safeguard its own competition. The clubs have been sounded out about the proposals. I would like the clubs to get together and sound out the fans formally as well as take into account social media reaction. Change should be discussed amd not dismissed
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Sept 4, 2016 9:04:32 GMT
I guess the big question is why actually do the FL want to stop mid week games/increase the FL to 100 clubs, when there seems so little support from the FL's own clubs? If Man U etc aren't interested in the EFL Trophy it's not as if they are desperate to play more games against FL sides to replace the lost mid week games. As far as the Checktrade games if fans boycotting them doesn't send out a clear message fans don't want them I don't know what else does. Perhaps a boycott the final could be the killer if one U23 team gets there, as that's where the most money is made for FL clubs? Perhaps they should make the FL smaller? That would go down well. I dont think there is anytbing inherently wrong with standardising the league at 5 divisions of 20 if done right. Going by the letter and its rough outline this weekend would be have been a potential JPT group game instead of a league fixture for instance. It would actually be wrong for the FL to not discuss change with all the money flowing into the Prem and not looking to improve/safeguard its own competition. The clubs have been sounded out about the proposals. I would like the clubs to get together and sound out the fans formally as well as take into account social media reaction. Change should be discussed amd not dismissed The fundamental problem is that they're discussing change without proposing where the new teams will come from. Surely that is the most important part of the proposal. How can they say, let's have a discussion about adding six new teams to the structure, without saying what those six teams will be? It just makes it sound like they are trying to sneak something past us. So until they round out such a proposal with actual (fundamental) detail, then yes, we should dismiss it out of hand.
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Post by long john silver on Sept 4, 2016 10:12:54 GMT
Firstly, apologies if this has been posted. Secondly, the aim of this isn't to be divisive or create a them/us culture. Thirdly, hope the pics work. Below are letters sent by the EFL to all chairmen 17th August proposing restructuring the football league to create a League 3. To all those who feel attending Checkatrade Trophy games doesn't validate their grim crusade I hope this helps persuade you that the powers that be are attacking the game we love and the reality is that if we don't take action it will soon be too late. Their experiment needs to fail in spectacular fashion to send a clear message to all Chairmen that we can't and won't be bought. Unfortunately there are still fans who support these changes, 1400 rovers fans turned up to the b team game last week which to put it politely I found disappointing.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Sept 4, 2016 10:20:14 GMT
Well if Chairman vote for that document which is absolutelt riddled with inconsistencies they need shooting.
1. they talk of where the extra 6 teams come from by the maths i was taught at the university of Portway 100 - 92 = 8 2. they then calculate the loss of income as the 'profit' made on each came well f**k me are all 72 FL clubs suddenly making a profit? Income helps you offset costs so by the football league clubs will still have the same costs but no income to offset those costs. 3. they talk of freeing up midweek, personally I love midweek games in the dark of winter, & then say the FA Cup willbe moved to midweek.
The FL is currently run by sycophants desperate for a godd paying job at the Premier League.
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Post by peterparker on Sept 4, 2016 10:40:18 GMT
Perhaps they should make the FL smaller? That would go down well. I dont think there is anytbing inherently wrong with standardising the league at 5 divisions of 20 if done right. Going by the letter and its rough outline this weekend would be have been a potential JPT group game instead of a league fixture for instance. It would actually be wrong for the FL to not discuss change with all the money flowing into the Prem and not looking to improve/safeguard its own competition. The clubs have been sounded out about the proposals. I would like the clubs to get together and sound out the fans formally as well as take into account social media reaction. Change should be discussed amd not dismissed The fundamental problem is that they're discussing change without proposing where the new teams will come from. Surely that is the most important part of the proposal. How can they say, let's have a discussion about adding six new teams to the structure, without saying what those six teams will be? It just makes it sound like they are trying to sneak something past us. So until they round out such a proposal with actual (fundamental) detail, then yes, we should dismiss it out of hand. Isnt it an outline document rather than a full on proposal as a lot of things would need to be agreed from the top down? Not surr if it is in thst document or part of it somewhere else but the clubs are asked where they think the 8 clubs should come from. If the majority vote was conferrnce teams than that is where they should come from and i would hope the clubs would appreciate the fans views especially now given the FLT and thr highlighted lower attendances.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Sept 4, 2016 10:48:55 GMT
The fundamental problem is that they're discussing change without proposing where the new teams will come from. Surely that is the most important part of the proposal. How can they say, let's have a discussion about adding six new teams to the structure, without saying what those six teams will be? It just makes it sound like they are trying to sneak something past us. So until they round out such a proposal with actual (fundamental) detail, then yes, we should dismiss it out of hand. Isnt it an outline document rather than a full on proposal as a lot of things would need to be agreed from the top down? Not surr if it is in thst document or part of it somewhere else but the clubs are asked where they think the 8 clubs should come from. If the majority vote was conferrnce teams than that is where they should come from and i would hope the clubs would appreciate the fans views especially now given the FLT and thr highlighted lower attendances. Come on spiderman at least read the document before you put your hand up as told, it specifically talks about 6 extra clubs. If they can't do basic maths doesn't it strike you that they probably can't be trusted?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2016 10:52:00 GMT
It's not too late and it's not out of our hands. The biggest source of income for clubs outside of the PL is gate receipts. If chairmen think gates will dwindle as a result of the changes then they will vote against. If they feel people will turn up regardless of what's put in front of them they might consider voting for. A statement of intent by boycotting the remaining Checkatrade Trophy matches will send that message out to Chairmen up and down the country. This. It's a lie to think we can't affect the future of lower league football.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 4, 2016 11:50:21 GMT
Isnt it an outline document rather than a full on proposal as a lot of things would need to be agreed from the top down? Not surr if it is in thst document or part of it somewhere else but the clubs are asked where they think the 8 clubs should come from. If the majority vote was conferrnce teams than that is where they should come from and i would hope the clubs would appreciate the fans views especially now given the FLT and thr highlighted lower attendances. Come on spiderman at least read the document before you put your hand up as told, it specifically talks about 6 extra clubs. If they can't do basic maths doesn't it strike you that they probably can't be trusted? Simple really as it is proposed that during the first season the two clubs finishing bottom of Div 2 won't be relegated (which I don't agree with) with the 2 clubs from the National League still being promoted they only need to fund another 6 clubs as they'll then already have 94 clubs. It would be interesting to see what FL fans felt about mid week league games generally, as I can't imagine many would vote to scrape them completely, bar rearranged games, which is the bases of this proposal?
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Post by peterparker on Sept 4, 2016 12:00:02 GMT
Isnt it an outline document rather than a full on proposal as a lot of things would need to be agreed from the top down? Not surr if it is in thst document or part of it somewhere else but the clubs are asked where they think the 8 clubs should come from. If the majority vote was conferrnce teams than that is where they should come from and i would hope the clubs would appreciate the fans views especially now given the FLT and thr highlighted lower attendances. Come on spiderman at least read the document before you put your hand up as told, it specifically talks about 6 extra clubs. If they can't do basic maths doesn't it strike you that they probably can't be trusted? touch.facebook.com/groups/2215724366?message_id=10154698079139367&comment_id=10154699146739367¬if_t=like¬if_id=1472803391514077&ref=m_notifAnd it clearly asks here Where do you think they should come from And Where dont you think they should come from Whether it is 2,6,8 or 50 teams
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Post by lpgas on Sept 4, 2016 13:21:55 GMT
Somewhat ironic in that they reduce league games but increase games in the FL Cup (More cash for them?). One of the founding principles of the Premier League was that it would help improve the National team; it hasn't mainly because the Premier League is flooded with foreign players. (As are most U 23 sides). Both the FA and the EFL think we are all thick and will accept anything. We aren't and we don't have to.
Lets say Rovers doubled the price of tickets overnight, who would go and buy them without a protest? The meek and the mild, and in that respect Jesus was wrong. Me? I would put on my Rovers shirt and walk the streets around the Mem but I would not go in, and if 8 thousand other Gasheads did the same we would soon see a reduction in ticket prices. It's just a case of getting off your arse and doing something. I want to go to Swindon, but I am not. Principles are more important to me than giving Swindon more money, just as the future of football is more important than any one club, and I include Bristol Rovers in that.
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Post by lpgas on Sept 4, 2016 13:27:26 GMT
I guess the big question is why actually do the FL want to stop mid week games/increase the FL to 100 clubs, when there seems so little support from the FL's own clubs? If Man U etc aren't interested in the EFL Trophy it's not as if they are desperate to play more games against FL sides to replace the lost mid week games. As far as the Checktrade games if fans boycotting them doesn't send out a clear message fans don't want them I don't know what else does. Perhaps a boycott the final could be the killer if one U23 team gets there, as that's where the most money is made for FL clubs? Perhaps they should make the FL smaller? That would go down well. I dont think there is anytbing inherently wrong with standardising the league at 5 divisions of 20 if done right. Going by the letter and its rough outline this weekend would be have been a potential JPT group game instead of a league fixture for instance. It would actually be wrong for the FL to not discuss change with all the money flowing into the Prem and not looking to improve/safeguard its own competition. The clubs have been sounded out about the proposals. I would like the clubs to get together and sound out the fans formally as well as take into account social media reaction. Change should be discussed amd not dismissed So Rovers lose money on not playing so many home games. Where do you think Rovers will get that extra money from? The extra league cup games? Crowds are ALWAYS low for these in the first round or two, or more likely a hike in the ticket prices? And if they had already standardised relegation and promotion as in the document we would still be in Div 2. A change in something that is already ok qualifies and being buggered up
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 4, 2016 13:30:48 GMT
Somewhat ironic in that they reduce league games but increase games in the FL Cup (More cash for them?). One of the founding principles of the Premier League was that it would help improve the National team; it hasn't mainly because the Premier League is flooded with foreign players. (As are most U 23 sides). Both the FA and the EFL think we are all thick and will accept anything. We aren't and we don't have to. Lets say Rovers doubled the price of tickets overnight, who would go and buy them without a protest? The meek and the mild, and in that respect Jesus was wrong. Me? I would put on my Rovers shirt and walk the streets around the Mem but I would not go in, and if 8 thousand other Gasheads did the same we would soon see a reduction in ticket prices. It's just a case of getting off your arse and doing something. I want to go to Swindon, but I am not. Principles are more important to me than giving Swindon more money, just as the future of football is more important than any one club, and I include Bristol Rovers in that. Slightly different though as if the FL did move to 5 divisions fans wouldn't stop going to games and start protesting outside the ground, as come August we'd still all turn up for the first home game.
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Post by peterparker on Sept 4, 2016 13:34:45 GMT
Perhaps they should make the FL smaller? That would go down well. I dont think there is anytbing inherently wrong with standardising the league at 5 divisions of 20 if done right. Going by the letter and its rough outline this weekend would be have been a potential JPT group game instead of a league fixture for instance. It would actually be wrong for the FL to not discuss change with all the money flowing into the Prem and not looking to improve/safeguard its own competition. The clubs have been sounded out about the proposals. I would like the clubs to get together and sound out the fans formally as well as take into account social media reaction. Change should be discussed amd not dismissed So Rovers lose money on not playing so many home games. Where do you think Rovers will get that extra money from? The extra league cup games? Crowds are ALWAYS low for these in the first round or two, or more likely a hike in the ticket prices? And if they had already standardised relegation and promotion as in the document we would still be in Div 2. A change in something that is already ok qualifies and being buggered up The document clearly states that the FL clubs should not lose out financially, so the clubs would need to agree on how this comes about As for something that works ok? It worked okay when there were no play offs, it worked okak with Div 3 North and South, it worked okay with two divisions etc.... Or when clubs had to vote you out the league There is so much money in The Prem now, it would be wrong not to discuss the future of the FL (whatever the ideas or proposals).
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Post by lpgas on Sept 4, 2016 13:42:46 GMT
Somewhat ironic in that they reduce league games but increase games in the FL Cup (More cash for them?). One of the founding principles of the Premier League was that it would help improve the National team; it hasn't mainly because the Premier League is flooded with foreign players. (As are most U 23 sides). Both the FA and the EFL think we are all thick and will accept anything. We aren't and we don't have to. Lets say Rovers doubled the price of tickets overnight, who would go and buy them without a protest? The meek and the mild, and in that respect Jesus was wrong. Me? I would put on my Rovers shirt and walk the streets around the Mem but I would not go in, and if 8 thousand other Gasheads did the same we would soon see a reduction in ticket prices. It's just a case of getting off your arse and doing something. I want to go to Swindon, but I am not. Principles are more important to me than giving Swindon more money, just as the future of football is more important than any one club, and I include Bristol Rovers in that. Slightly different though as if the FL did move to 5 divisions fans wouldn't stop going to games and start protesting outside the ground, as come August we'd still all turn up for the first home game. Yes but where would Rovers get the missing income from the 4 home game they wont be playing lets say 4 games at £20 where on average each spends £20 which is modest really (8000 x £20 x = £640,000). So well over half a million, even allowing saving money on away travel for the missing away games it would come no where near that. Perhaps they think the extra games in the EFL trophy will make that figure up? Truth is, it wont, so up goes the price of tickets and down go attendances
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Post by lpgas on Sept 4, 2016 13:49:07 GMT
I remember when Aldershot were drawn to play Oxford in the FA cup. At a time when the cost of a league game was about £12 Aldershot put their prices up to £18 for that game, they got less than 3000 on a game that should have had them packed out. The price of tickets matter, I earn a 1/3 of what I was earning in 2008, and I am not the only on. If you were at Chelsea how many of them were real hardcore Chelsea fans? Not many, they were priced out years ago
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 4, 2016 15:45:55 GMT
Slightly different though as if the FL did move to 5 divisions fans wouldn't stop going to games and start protesting outside the ground, as come August we'd still all turn up for the first home game. Yes but where would Rovers get the missing income from the 4 home game they wont be playing lets say 4 games at £20 where on average each spends £20 which is modest really (8000 x £20 x = £640,000). So well over half a million, even allowing saving money on away travel for the missing away games it would come no where near that. Perhaps they think the extra games in the EFL trophy will make that figure up? Truth is, it wont, so up goes the price of tickets and down go attendances I guess s/t prices would be reduced so that drops that figure down to 3,000 and with concessions for kids/OAP's call it £15 per ticket, so straight away we're down to below £200K loss, then there's steward etc costs not being incurred so the loss is probably £100K net, or one 1st team player's wages. Although I still can't see the attraction for FL clubs, particularly Div 1 & 2 as those clubs are effectively voting for the possibility of being an extra promotion away from reaching the Championship/Premiership, the only clubs really benefiting could be the Glasgow giants &/or National League side but they don't get a vote!
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Post by countygroundhotel on Sept 4, 2016 18:40:29 GMT
Slightly different though as if the FL did move to 5 divisions fans wouldn't stop going to games and start protesting outside the ground, as come August we'd still all turn up for the first home game. Yes but where would Rovers get the missing income from the 4 home game they wont be playing lets say 4 games at £20 where on average each spends £20 which is modest really (8000 x £20 x = £640,000). So well over half a million, even allowing saving money on away travel for the missing away games it would come no where near that. Perhaps they think the extra games in the EFL trophy will make that figure up? Truth is, it wont, so up goes the price of tickets and down go attendances The FL letter openly admits they wouldn't be making up the income from less games they decided only to talk about the 'profit' on each game. It is as an argument completely laughable but most things coming out of the Football League at the moment is laughable.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Sept 4, 2016 18:44:07 GMT
Weel it's the incompetent Football League how would we know where the teams would come from even if they told us? You might remember that we would all be playing a Premier League U21 team this season, for the good of the England team, what actually turned up was a Championship U23 populated mostly with foreign players. But you go on & trust them it's easily led sheep like you that they like.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Sept 4, 2016 20:26:14 GMT
I know of at least 1400 people that don't give a sh**.
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Post by aghast on Sept 4, 2016 20:54:35 GMT
After watching England tonight, I think tearing the heart out of the Football League is a small price to pay to make sure Wayne Rooney continues to enjoy his international career until he deems himself a bit crap.
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