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Post by Officer Barbrady on Sept 21, 2017 10:02:01 GMT
I think this is probably the crux of the disagreement here around what different people consider to be investment. There's a difference see between building a sustainable business model via things like restructure, the procurement of new roles and grass roots supply lines and simply lump summing on a big visible project. Both mean spending more money but which one is the investment? Both, possibly but I suppose that largely depends on what the projected return is going to be. For example, spending tens of millions on a project that isn't going to yield the required benefits is not actually an investment at all - that's bankrolling, a donation if you will. Still, investment takes many forms and just because we haven't got a new place to perch our arses at the game to look forward to doesn't mean there isn't investment. It also doesn't mean that an opportunity to invest has been dodged either. Either way I don't think all this fear-mongering and negative speculation by good chaps who probably know as much as I do about what is currently being uttered across the urinals of power (not much) is much help to tell the truth. We had invested in people who are experts in building new stadiums also in a feasibility study. Where did the experts go ? The feasibility study, we were told, came back favourably. Football is not a "business" where money is made, not until you reach the prem and, even then most run of only paying back interest. It's very much a toy for a already wealthy and I think if you try to run it along the lines of banking then it's not going to yield profits, if that is the reason the club was purchased ? Of course it's a business. Lots of businesses don't make money but they don't do so for long before they are sold. Then a buyer comes in who thinks they can invest and make it profitable or it doesn't get sold and liquidates. If you see it as a play thing for rich folk to bankroll then perhaps that's why you have unrealistic expectations.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Sept 21, 2017 10:06:34 GMT
We had invested in people who are experts in building new stadiums also in a feasibility study. Where did the experts go ? The feasibility study, we were told, came back favourably. Football is not a "business" where money is made, not until you reach the prem and, even then most run of only paying back interest. It's very much a toy for a already wealthy and I think if you try to run it along the lines of banking then it's not going to yield profits, if that is the reason the club was purchased ? You also have to ask yourself why did they set a date for UWE to agree a deal, then in the next statement said they would have to re apply for planning permission because of all the changes the would have had to make to the stadium.... why set a date for something you are not going to build to the original spec..... yes, all also valid points. If it is to be believed, personally I do believe, there has been a split and powershift within the family and the Arabs are very much a patriarchal group, it seems Hani has now been given the decision making and budgeting role. I hope and wish I am wrong but forgive me for seeing this as a total sea change is what was originally meant to be. IF the guy who leaked the stadium news is to be believed, I have no reason to doubt him going on past information from him, there is more news to come that won't make for pleasant reading or digesting. I have never had a second team and so I can't help but wonder and worry about what next. If you believe in karma or are at all religious then it makes you wonder why we always seem to be being dealt cards from the bottom of the pack. Still, unless this treatment starts to kick in then it won't make any difference for me personally. Guesstimates say it woukd take 5 years to get the mem either rebuilt or restructured. That's a long time and too long for many. I guess the words " I'll see you in my dreams' have never been so pertinent right now. DC even alluded to maybe slipping back into league 2 if some of our players don't up their game. He is the one I feel most for. Signed a 5 year contract thinking it was full steam ahead. Must be galling for him.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Sept 21, 2017 10:08:26 GMT
We had invested in people who are experts in building new stadiums also in a feasibility study. Where did the experts go ? The feasibility study, we were told, came back favourably. Football is not a "business" where money is made, not until you reach the prem and, even then most run of only paying back interest. It's very much a toy for a already wealthy and I think if you try to run it along the lines of banking then it's not going to yield profits, if that is the reason the club was purchased ? Of course it's a business. Lots of businesses don't make money but they don't do so for long before they are sold. Then a buyer comes in who thinks they can invest and make it profitable or it doesn't get sold and liquidates. If you see it as a play thing for rich folk to bankroll then perhaps that's why you have unrealistic expectations. I have or had no expectations other than what we were told at the press conference, when NH ceded the club to the Al Qadi family. You only have to look at how Man U and even Bournemouth are operating to see that without a generous benefactor, clubs don't make it. Look at Bolton, 350 million in debt. Whether you see it or not, football ownership is more about the kudos of owning an English club than making money is. Christ, even the Galziers make funds available for Man U and they only pay off the interest on the loans made. It's not a game for speculators, IF their aim is to make money. This evolution not revolution catchphrase is ambiguous too as surely it's a bit of both. I'm with @bluebutterfly on this, this season was a real chance to stake a claim and build on the momentum we had going. Hey, who knows, I'd be very happy to eat my words. I only want what is best for the club. I'm just deflated that we seemed to change course just at the wrong time and when we could have brought in a little bit of revolution , in the transfer window.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Sept 21, 2017 10:13:12 GMT
Of course it's a business. Lots of businesses don't make money but they don't do so for long before they are sold. Then a buyer comes in who thinks they can invest and make it profitable or it doesn't get sold and liquidates. If you see it as a play thing for rich folk to bankroll then perhaps that's why you have unrealistic expectations. I have or had no expectations other than what we were told at the press conference, when NH ceded the club to the Al Qadi family. and what were they then? What hasn't been met?
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Post by 1883kinhswoodgas on Sept 21, 2017 10:17:42 GMT
You also have to ask yourself why did they set a date for UWE to agree a deal, then in the next statement said they would have to re apply for planning permission because of all the changes the would have had to make to the stadium.... why set a date for something you are not going to build to the original spec..... yes, all also valid points. If it is to be believed, personally I do believe, there has been a split and powershift within the family and the Arabs are very much a patriarchal group, it seems Hani has now been given the decision making and budgeting role. I hope and wish I am wrong but forgive me for seeing this as a total sea change is what was originally meant to be. IF the guy who leaked the stadium news is to be believed, I have no reason to doubt him going on past information from him, there is more news to come that won't make for pleasant reading or digesting. I have never had a second team and so I can't help but wonder and worry about what next. If you believe in karma or are at all religious then it makes you wonder why we always seem to be being dealt cards from the bottom of the pack. Still, unless this treatment starts to kick in then it won't make any difference for me personally. Guesstimates say it woukd take 5 years to get the mem either rebuilt or restructured. That's a long time and too long for many. I guess the words " I'll see you in my dreams' have never been so pertinent right now. DC even alluded to maybe slipping back into league 2 if some of our players don't up their game. He is the one I feel most for. Signed a 5 year contract thinking it was full steam ahead. Must be galling for him. Didn't take the DC comment about league 2 as us slipping down to it more the players who arent performing not making it with us and slipping back down to league 2
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Sept 21, 2017 10:23:31 GMT
I have or had no expectations other than what we were told at the press conference, when NH ceded the club to the Al Qadi family. and what were they then? What hasn't been met? In the main the stadium and now the date on the training ground being ready for 2018/19
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Sept 21, 2017 10:24:22 GMT
yes, all also valid points. If it is to be believed, personally I do believe, there has been a split and powershift within the family and the Arabs are very much a patriarchal group, it seems Hani has now been given the decision making and budgeting role. I hope and wish I am wrong but forgive me for seeing this as a total sea change is what was originally meant to be. IF the guy who leaked the stadium news is to be believed, I have no reason to doubt him going on past information from him, there is more news to come that won't make for pleasant reading or digesting. I have never had a second team and so I can't help but wonder and worry about what next. If you believe in karma or are at all religious then it makes you wonder why we always seem to be being dealt cards from the bottom of the pack. Still, unless this treatment starts to kick in then it won't make any difference for me personally. Guesstimates say it woukd take 5 years to get the mem either rebuilt or restructured. That's a long time and too long for many. I guess the words " I'll see you in my dreams' have never been so pertinent right now. DC even alluded to maybe slipping back into league 2 if some of our players don't up their game. He is the one I feel most for. Signed a 5 year contract thinking it was full steam ahead. Must be galling for him. Didn't take the DC comment about league 2 as us slipping down to it more the players who arent performing not making it with us and slipping back down to league 2 Yeah, fair comment and exactly what I said
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 21, 2017 10:25:47 GMT
I have or had no expectations other than what we were told at the press conference, when NH ceded the club to the Al Qadi family. and what were they then? What hasn't been met? Wael clearly implied the UWE stadium would go ahead and really kept that up until the news broke via FB if was off. I can't recall one interview where he, or SH, ever suggested the stadium might got go ahead.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 10:41:44 GMT
You also have to ask yourself why did they set a date for UWE to agree a deal, then in the next statement said they would have to re apply for planning permission because of all the changes the would have had to make to the stadium.... why set a date for something you are not going to build to the original spec..... yes, all also valid points. If it is to be believed, personally I do believe, there has been a split and powershift within the family and the Arabs are very much a patriarchal group, it seems Hani has now been given the decision making and budgeting role. I hope and wish I am wrong but forgive me for seeing this as a total sea change is what was originally meant to be. IF the guy who leaked the stadium news is to be believed, I have no reason to doubt him going on past information from him, there is more news to come that won't make for pleasant reading or digesting. I have never had a second team and so I can't help but wonder and worry about what next. If you believe in karma or are at all religious then it makes you wonder why we always seem to be being dealt cards from the bottom of the pack. Still, unless this treatment starts to kick in then it won't make any difference for me personally. Guesstimates say it woukd take 5 years to get the mem either rebuilt or restructured. That's a long time and too long for many. I guess the words " I'll see you in my dreams' have never been so pertinent right now. DC even alluded to maybe slipping back into league 2 if some of our players don't up their game. He is the one I feel most for. Signed a 5 year contract thinking it was full steam ahead. Must be galling for him. Who knows what's going on but I'm with you on this one. Would the family have bought this little club without the possibility of growing it from a new stadium with planning permission and building a sustainable business - I think not. Clearly from the positive vibes we had from SH and DC at the start of June to the demise of the UWE project there has been a step change IMO with no significant capital spend (certainly I would suggest no more than most other clubs in this division) or more importantly commitment on permanent infrastructure. People have been recruited without significant capital outlay but that can be dismantled fairly quickly if need be. My theory wrt DC's contact is that 5 years (I think unprecedented in Rovers history) is there to protect him in the event of a sell off - which seems ever more likely to me.
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Post by 1883kinhswoodgas on Sept 21, 2017 10:51:14 GMT
Didn't take the DC comment about league 2 as us slipping down to it more the players who arent performing not making it with us and slipping back down to league 2 Yeah, fair comment and exactly what I said I read it as us slipping back rather than individuals. Apologies
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Post by inee on Sept 21, 2017 11:14:46 GMT
We had invested in people who are experts in building new stadiums also in a feasibility study. Where did the experts go ? The feasibility study, we were told, came back favourably. Football is not a "business" where money is made, not until you reach the prem and, even then most run of only paying back interest. It's very much a toy for a already wealthy and I think if you try to run it along the lines of banking then it's not going to yield profits, if that is the reason the club was purchased ? You also have to ask yourself why did they set a date for UWE to agree a deal, then in the next statement said they would have to re apply for planning permission because of all the changes the would have had to make to the stadium.... why set a date for something you are not going to build to the original spec..... As i see it the best course of action was to set a date as lets face it this could have dragged on for years, i am not itk ,merely thinking if i was in that position i would set a deadline too .like many others i've said i will believe it when i'm watching a game from the new stadium. The other point you make about reapplying for planning permission, maybe just maybe there was no way of knowing for sure if the stadium would go ahead, it's not rocket science to assume that we would lay out a good wedge of cash to build a carpark or something else to comply with the stadium starting to be built before the pp ran out. It's also reasonable to think that maybe nh vision for the stadium didn't tie in with al-quadis vision of what they wanted the ground to look like, so if it looked likely that a deal would be achieved after the pp ran out that a fresh set of plans to their design would be subbmited
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Post by Henbury Gas on Sept 21, 2017 11:24:44 GMT
You also have to ask yourself why did they set a date for UWE to agree a deal, then in the next statement said they would have to re apply for planning permission because of all the changes the would have had to make to the stadium.... why set a date for something you are not going to build to the original spec..... As i see it the best course of action was to set a date as lets face it this could have dragged on for years, i am not itk ,merely thinking if i was in that position i would set a deadline too .like many others i've said i will believe it when i'm watching a game from the new stadium. The other point you make about reapplying for planning permission, maybe just maybe there was no way of knowing for sure if the stadium would go ahead, it's not rocket science to assume that we would lay out a good wedge of cash to build a carpark or something else to comply with the stadium starting to be built before the pp ran out. It's also reasonable to think that maybe nh vision for the stadium didn't tie in with al-quadis vision of what they wanted the ground to look like, so if it looked likely that a deal would be achieved after the pp ran out that a fresh set of plans to their design would be subbmited Wael did say that they had no significant changes to the original plans, so to start work before the planning lapsed they need to start soon.... then after it all went tits up he said we would have had to get planning again because of the changes they wanted. You can also apply for a short extension to original planning if work was near to starting.... All very fishy to me....
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Post by inee on Sept 21, 2017 11:25:57 GMT
I really can't fathom how you have come to that assumption, could you elaborate? Thanks in advance. We had 15 months of almost constant communications from the family and the last 3 months.... very very little If you look at it like that maybe just maybe ,theres nothing to communicate it could be that apart from on the pitch things behind the scenes are going well as someone has already said new job roles staff are appearing, lets be honest here if he spent billions on a stadium ,let everyone in for 3 had beer ans a butty served to every fan every 20 minutes by a buxom serving wench, still some would find things to grumble about, like i know its good but theres not enough butter in the butty, of theres 3 too many bubbles in the head of the beer. Or even as it got with nick he gave updates then get shot down. You also mention he hasn't been to a few games, realistically it's not like us who can just stroll to the ground on match day, you run a business if that was flat out busy then you've would miss a few games. I'm just guessing here but maybe like the owner of the sh** ,he may have restrictions on how many days he can be in the uk
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Sept 21, 2017 11:29:50 GMT
Yeah, fair comment and exactly what I said I read it as us slipping back rather than individuals. Apologies None needed. It's a forum and I expect it. Thank though
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Post by inee on Sept 21, 2017 11:34:42 GMT
As i see it the best course of action was to set a date as lets face it this could have dragged on for years, i am not itk ,merely thinking if i was in that position i would set a deadline too .like many others i've said i will believe it when i'm watching a game from the new stadium. The other point you make about reapplying for planning permission, maybe just maybe there was no way of knowing for sure if the stadium would go ahead, it's not rocket science to assume that we would lay out a good wedge of cash to build a carpark or something else to comply with the stadium starting to be built before the pp ran out. It's also reasonable to think that maybe nh vision for the stadium didn't tie in with al-quadis vision of what they wanted the ground to look like, so if it looked likely that a deal would be achieved after the pp ran out that a fresh set of plans to their design would be subbmited Wael did say that they had no significant changes to the original plans, so to start work before the planning lapsed they need to start soon.... then after it all went tits up he said we would have had to get planning again because of the changes they wanted. You can also apply for a short extension to original planning if work was near to starting.... All very fishy to me.... Put simply we don't know, pp for the stadium is vastly different from pp for your house, whereby if you made a small change it can be dealt with rapidly, however changes to the stadium would involve not just a change to the structure itself but reassessment of all the environmental studies ,other things like maybe the local transport plan has changed from when pp was approved and would mean either more or less money given to build roads etc. Again yes they could start before pp runs out but it would cost a good few bob ,it's not like yer house where you could just dig the foundation trench get the building inspector out to approve it then not do anything else for a long while but still retain pp. Something i forgot to say was lets face it he could put shitloads of money in but not own anything, to be fair i would bulk if i couldn't buy the land,
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Sept 21, 2017 11:45:24 GMT
As i see it the best course of action was to set a date as lets face it this could have dragged on for years, i am not itk ,merely thinking if i was in that position i would set a deadline too .like many others i've said i will believe it when i'm watching a game from the new stadium. The other point you make about reapplying for planning permission, maybe just maybe there was no way of knowing for sure if the stadium would go ahead, it's not rocket science to assume that we would lay out a good wedge of cash to build a carpark or something else to comply with the stadium starting to be built before the pp ran out. It's also reasonable to think that maybe nh vision for the stadium didn't tie in with al-quadis vision of what they wanted the ground to look like, so if it looked likely that a deal would be achieved after the pp ran out that a fresh set of plans to their design would be subbmited Wael did say that they had no significant changes to the original plans, so to start work before the planning lapsed they need to start soon.... then after it all went tits up he said we would have had to get planning again because of the changes they wanted. You can also apply for a short extension to original planning if work was near to starting.... All very fishy to me.... I noticed that too. It just seems that we are back to where we were where communication from the board is nearly non existent and it took a very rare leak to get the news of the stadium being dead. I'm with inee on the fact that there will always be those not satisfied. I'm one of them right now but for different reasons. I won't go into it as you've all probably got tired of hearing about my crap but time may not be something that many more have much more of and of course this makes ANY news of waiting all over again even more important. I'd love to be able to say I will be here when/if we get a new place but I guess none of us can definitely say that when you think about it. None of us know our sell by date really.
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Post by philbemmygas on Sept 21, 2017 11:46:15 GMT
Wael did say that they had no significant changes to the original plans, so to start work before the planning lapsed they need to start soon.... then after it all went tits up he said we would have had to get planning again because of the changes they wanted. You can also apply for a short extension to original planning if work was near to starting.... All very fishy to me.... Put simply we don't know, pp for the stadium is vastly different from pp for your house, whereby if you made a small change it can be dealt with rapidly, however changes to the stadium would involve not just a change to the structure itself but reassessment of all the environmental studies ,other things like maybe the local transport plan has changed from when pp was approved and would mean either more or less money given to build roads etc. Again yes they could start before pp runs out but it would cost a good few bob ,it's not like yer house where you could just dig the foundation trench get the building inspector out to approve it then not do anything else for a long while but still retain pp. Something i forgot to say was lets face it he could put shitloads of money in but not own anything, to be fair i would bulk if i couldn't buy the land, After watching "inside out west" the other night, we need a patch of land in Bristol. It appears developers can build what they want regardless of planning permission. Tongue in cheek guys - UTG
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Sept 21, 2017 11:54:52 GMT
Put simply we don't know, pp for the stadium is vastly different from pp for your house, whereby if you made a small change it can be dealt with rapidly, however changes to the stadium would involve not just a change to the structure itself but reassessment of all the environmental studies ,other things like maybe the local transport plan has changed from when pp was approved and would mean either more or less money given to build roads etc. Again yes they could start before pp runs out but it would cost a good few bob ,it's not like yer house where you could just dig the foundation trench get the building inspector out to approve it then not do anything else for a long while but still retain pp. Something i forgot to say was lets face it he could put shitloads of money in but not own anything, to be fair i would bulk if i couldn't buy the land, After watching "inside out west" the other night, we need a patch of land in Bristol. It appears developers can build what they want regardless of planning permission. Tongue in cheek guys - UTG There was talk of Lyde green being an alternative at one point. I guess it sold or we didn't even look at it. In my opinion it would be probably the best area to build a Rovers stadium given the traditional heartland of Rovers support in East Bristol/South Glos
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Post by inee on Sept 21, 2017 11:56:40 GMT
After watching "inside out west" the other night, we need a patch of land in Bristol. It appears developers can build what they want regardless of planning permission. Tongue in cheek guys - UTG There was talk of Lyde green being an alternative at one point. I guess it sold or we didn't even look at it. In my opinion it would be probably the best area to build a Rovers stadium given the traditional heartland of Rovers support in East Bristol/South Glos Casnt the council sell us a bit of land kinda diagonally opposite eastville
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 21, 2017 12:18:20 GMT
Wael did say that they had no significant changes to the original plans, so to start work before the planning lapsed they need to start soon.... then after it all went tits up he said we would have had to get planning again because of the changes they wanted. You can also apply for a short extension to original planning if work was near to starting.... All very fishy to me.... Put simply we don't know, pp for the stadium is vastly different from pp for your house, whereby if you made a small change it can be dealt with rapidly, however changes to the stadium would involve not just a change to the structure itself but reassessment of all the environmental studies ,other things like maybe the local transport plan has changed from when pp was approved and would mean either more or less money given to build roads etc. Again yes they could start before pp runs out but it would cost a good few bob ,it's not like yer house where you could just dig the foundation trench get the building inspector out to approve it then not do anything else for a long while but still retain pp. Something i forgot to say was lets face it he could put shitloads of money in but not own anything, to be fair i would bulk if i couldn't buy the land, But Wael would have known in his first talks with the UWE that they had no intention of selling the land, or at least selling it at a price he could afford, so why drag talks out for 18 months if not owning the land was the main issue. It's Freshies Fare at the UWE today and the only professional sports club with a stand seems to be Rovers, so suggestions that Pantsdown maybe interested in building a relationship with the UWE seems wide of the mark.
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