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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 9:10:49 GMT
You're just making stuff up now. I'm not offended by anything you wrote. I don't really get offended much. You realise it's possible for me to disagree with you without be offended, right? You do seem to be offended though. Ironically you seem to be exactly in the "Determined to be offended by any view that's different to mine when it comes to diversity issues" brigade. I'm sorry you feel you're being attacked. You just seemed to whine about stuff you didn't really have any clue about. That's the sort of thing that gets a response. Again, if you want to whine about issues and you just want people to agree with you, then do it with your mates down the pub or in a diary, if you do it on the internet, and you're likely to get all bent out of shape just coz someone disagrees with you, that seems to be a weird choice. You haven't addressed my last point. I wasn't making a point about tolerance or comparing religions. You suggested converting muslims was a new agenda, I pointed out it wasn't. I wasn't trying to take a side, I was pointing out a fact. Your determination to take a side seems to have skewed your mind about what I actually said. I'm quite interested in the history of the crusades, as it happens. I could fill a long post about hundreds of incidents where muslims slaughtered christians and christians slaughtered muslims. Absolute vile carnage. Not sure why you feel the need to take sides on that issue. But I assure you I'm not bothering to pick a side between two groups of murderous deluded sociopaths. PM me your address antonio i have a cd full of knights templer stuff if you want it. I'm calling borrux on this! Even I know the Knights Templar didn't have access to a CD player
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Post by oldgas on Apr 12, 2018 9:28:05 GMT
Oh for Christs sake! You're obviously a member of the "Determined to be offended by any view that's different to mine when it comes to diversity issues" brigade. I didn't see any attempt on your behalf to actually discuss my post in your original reply. You just went straight into attack mode. If you actually stopped and considered my post, you would see that I was merely saying "Live and let live" Is that such a bad philosophy? You can't celebrate diversity in one breath then try and engineer it with the next. To address your last point, Muslims also try and convert others to their faith. If any Muslim is foolish to convert, they tend to get thrown off of tall buildings. How tolerant is that? You're just making stuff up now. I'm not offended by anything you wrote. I don't really get offended much. You realise it's possible for me to disagree with you without be offended, right? You do seem to be offended though. Ironically you seem to be exactly in the "Determined to be offended by any view that's different to mine when it comes to diversity issues" brigade. I'm sorry you feel you're being attacked. You just seemed to whine about stuff you didn't really have any clue about. That's the sort of thing that gets a response. Again, if you want to whine about issues and you just want people to agree with you, then do it with your mates down the pub or in a diary, if you do it on the internet, and you're likely to get all bent out of shape just coz someone disagrees with you, that seems to be a weird choice. You haven't addressed my last point. I wasn't making a point about tolerance or comparing religions. You suggested converting muslims was a new agenda, I pointed out it wasn't. I wasn't trying to take a side, I was pointing out a fact. Your determination to take a side seems to have skewed your mind about what I actually said. I'm quite interested in the history of the crusades, as it happens. I could fill a long post about hundreds of incidents where muslims slaughtered christians and christians slaughtered muslims. Absolute vile carnage. Not sure why you feel the need to take sides on that issue. But I assure you I'm not bothering to pick a side between two groups of murderous deluded sociopaths. The perfect example of the paradox of intolerance within a tolerant society. I think it is you who are getting bent out of shape. Once again you have gone into attack mode but obviously can't see it. I would advise you to calm down, but you probably won't take any notice. Anyway, I'm looking forward to Saturday's game. Tonight I'm having a couple of beers with a black mate. I'll probably ask if he's going to the football, but I know he'll say "No", he doesn't really like it. Enjoy the rest of your day, and try not to chew the carpet.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 9:37:16 GMT
oldie - When you're in the pub tonight, if the door suddenly slams open and there is a bloke wearing chainmail and carrying a gurt big sword and a gurt big shield with the Cross of St George on in, I suggest you do a runner through the back door ASAP!
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Post by inee on Apr 12, 2018 9:39:33 GMT
Why is diversity so wrong when it comes to football? If you consider the flip side of the argument, then diversity should mean that BAME people shouldn't have to attend football matches to meet some kind of inclusivity target. The fact is that soccer isn't a staple of many of the cultures resident in the UK, therefore why should we expect these groups to suddenly go to football? There's nothing stopping them from attending if they so wish, I would have thought that the various black players we've had over the years would have encouraged black people to come and watch us, but no, that hasn't happened. And that's not because ethnic minority people would be made to feel unwelcome, that's just not true. They quite obviously don't have the interest. The same goes for Asian and other races living here; footballs just not in their DNA. You will get the occasional. BAME person who does like football and will attend, but you can't use some spurious argument that others are somehow excluded, perhaps it's because others just aren't interested. You can't have diversity only when it suits some kind of agenda, either people's interests and pastimes reflect their culture or they don't, you can't have it both ways. People have to decide for themselves. You wrote that better than i could ,to me your spot on ,traditionally ,you worked your tits off during the week ,1/2 day Saturday ,pub for a pint ,football ,couple of pints then home. lots of other cultures don't support that and as such never got to love or worship the game like we do, Some do and are just as passionate as everyone else ,like you say if they want to attend they will. The problem with the diversity stuff is it tends to do more damage than good (especially when people say oh look not many non white go to foot ball or are coppers etc so therefore that club organisation must be racist)and can isolate people especially in the workplace
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Apr 12, 2018 9:40:46 GMT
You're just making stuff up now. I'm not offended by anything you wrote. I don't really get offended much. You realise it's possible for me to disagree with you without be offended, right? You do seem to be offended though. Ironically you seem to be exactly in the "Determined to be offended by any view that's different to mine when it comes to diversity issues" brigade. I'm sorry you feel you're being attacked. You just seemed to whine about stuff you didn't really have any clue about. That's the sort of thing that gets a response. Again, if you want to whine about issues and you just want people to agree with you, then do it with your mates down the pub or in a diary, if you do it on the internet, and you're likely to get all bent out of shape just coz someone disagrees with you, that seems to be a weird choice. You haven't addressed my last point. I wasn't making a point about tolerance or comparing religions. You suggested converting muslims was a new agenda, I pointed out it wasn't. I wasn't trying to take a side, I was pointing out a fact. Your determination to take a side seems to have skewed your mind about what I actually said. I'm quite interested in the history of the crusades, as it happens. I could fill a long post about hundreds of incidents where muslims slaughtered christians and christians slaughtered muslims. Absolute vile carnage. Not sure why you feel the need to take sides on that issue. But I assure you I'm not bothering to pick a side between two groups of murderous deluded sociopaths. The perfect example of the paradox of intolerance within a tolerant society. I think it is you who are getting bent out of shape. Once again you have gone into attack mode but obviously can't see it. I would advise you to calm down, but you probably won't take any notice. Anyway, I'm looking forward to Saturday's game. Tonight I'm having a couple of beers with a black mate. I'll probably ask if he's going to the football, but I know he'll say "No", he doesn't really like it. Enjoy the rest of your day, and try not to chew the carpet. No, you're wrong again. I'm perfectly calm. But you're the one who started whining about stuff that you supposedly have no interest in. You're the one accusing me of having an agenda. You're the one saying I'm offended, in place of an actual argument. You're the one who seems to think you're being attacked for thinking outside the box. So you're the one throwing out all the mindless accusations without being able to back them up. This is all weird stuff you've just made up to save you having to actually discuss what you're whining about, coz you don't really seem to have much of a clue. But, you know, carry on pretending that you're being oppressed, or whatever it is you think. You should really understand though that just disagreeing with someone isn't intolerance, especially in a forum deliberately set up for discussion. That's a weird thing you should probably try to get over. Otherwise you're gonna continually think you're always being oppressed, when really people are just disagreeing with you.
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Post by inee on Apr 12, 2018 9:42:25 GMT
I'm not so concerned about the playing side. How diverse are the SC committee, the management, the backroom staff, the Community Trust, the Directors (apart from Wael and family), the staff training the younger age groups..............in fact all concerned with the running of BRFC? I agree. Look at the number of BAME managers and coaches compared to the number of black players. There is a disconnect there somewhere. Tis like everything else in life if they are good enough they will get the job ,how many would accept a lowly paid job at a lower club (like DC ) and work their way up . or perhaps in reality they prefer a stable job to provide for their families rather than a job where you could lose it after 3 games
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Post by inee on Apr 12, 2018 9:44:22 GMT
PM me your address antonio i have a cd full of knights templer stuff if you want it. I'm calling borrux on this! Even I know the Knights Templar didn't have access to a CD player You twat lmao
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Post by tutgas on Apr 12, 2018 9:58:07 GMT
Next Thursday nights diversity debate at the Memorial Stadium is on opportunity for everyone on this forum to come along and air their views. This is a more productive way of moving things forward at our club, by giving everyone an opportunity to discuss their feelings on the subject, rather than through an online forum. We look forward to hearing your contributions to the debate Oldgas, NobbyGas, Antonio Fargas, inee et al.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 10:04:22 GMT
Next Thursday nights diversity debate at the Memorial Stadium is on opportunity for everyone on this forum to come along and air their views. This is a more productive way of moving things forward at our club, by giving everyone an opportunity to discuss their feelings on the subject, rather than through an online forum. We look forward to hearing your contributions to the debate Oldgas, NobbyGas, Antonio Fargas, inee et al. I think the point being made is.......does there need to be a debate?
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Post by tutgas on Apr 12, 2018 10:27:23 GMT
Well if we would like to see our fanbase more representative of the great City we live in....then yes there does need to be a debate.
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Post by tommym9 on Apr 12, 2018 10:42:02 GMT
The point I'm making is we have lots of players that are BAME but very few of them go into coaching or management compared to the white players and I'd like to get a bit of a steer on why that is. Maybe it's because that's just the way it is? No ulterior reason or motive, it's just that way? As an example, last week Reuters carried a news story that said Ryanair aircrew had one of the largest Gender Pay Gaps of any leading company at 63%. However, you need to look at the details. The vast majority of the Pilots are male. There are some female pilots, but for whatever reason, more males become pilots. Why is that? Women have just the same opportunities to become pilots. It's just the way it is? With the cabin crew, the vast majority are women. There are some male cabin crew. Men have the same opportunities as women to become cabin crew, but for whatever reason, the job attracts more women. Pilots tend to be paid much more than cabin crew, so there really is no Gender Pay Gap is there! It's a made-up story. It's just the way it is. With your concerns about BAME players not going into coaching/management, don't you think it's the same in Germany/France/Italy/Spain etc etc? I agree, maybe it is just the way it is. The gender pay gap example you gave is really good. My question is has anyone looked into this issue the same way that for example the gender pay gap has? If not then its worth a look.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 10:45:10 GMT
Well if we would like to see our fanbase more representative of the great City we live in....then yes there does need to be a debate. Why are most Rappers BAME and not white? In the recent Winter Olympics, why was there a shortage of BAME competitors? Why are most Swimmers white? Why are most racing jockeys white? Why are most horse trainers white? Why are most Sprinters BAME? Why are most distance runners BAME? Why is our Rowing Team white? Why are most Basketball players BAME? Why am I, and others like me, referred to as 'white'? I am not white. I'm more of a peachy colour! The list goes on and on and on..........The 'issue' (if it can be called an issue) is not restricted to football. People go to football because they want to watch football, and there really isn't any other reason. Their skin colour doesn't have any effect on that. I personally couldn't care less about the fanbase being 'representative of our great city'. Why? Because I just go to watch football, and that's it. I'm certain that if more BAME people wanted to watch football, they would also go. There is nothing to stop them! There are a number of homosexual bars in Bristol, but there is nothing you can do to encourage me, as a hetrosexual, to go in one. Why? Because I don't want to. Are Rugby supporters more integrated in your eyes? Do BAME people go to rugby and not football? To me, this exercise is just something that has been dreamed up to indicate a problem exists, when in reality there isn't any problem. I have no doubt in the new-age world of offence being taken that my words will be taken as being 'passively aggressive discrimination'.
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Post by tutgas on Apr 12, 2018 10:55:11 GMT
nobbygas, we look forward to hearing your interesting points at next weeks debate. Thanks for entering into the discussion.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Apr 12, 2018 10:55:28 GMT
Well if we would like to see our fanbase more representative of the great City we live in....then yes there does need to be a debate. Why are most Rappers BAME and not white? In the recent Winter Olympics, why was there a shortage of BAME competitors? Why are most Swimmers white? Why are most racing jockeys white? Why are most horse trainers white? Why are most Sprinters BAME? Why are most distance runners BAME? Why is our Rowing Team white? Why are most Basketball players BAME? Why am I, and others like me, referred to as 'white'? I am not white. I'm more of a peachy colour! The list goes on and on and on..........The 'issue' (if it can be called an issue) is not restricted to football. People go to football because they want to watch football, and there really isn't any other reason. Their skin colour doesn't have any effect on that. I personally couldn't care less about the fanbase being 'representative of our great city'. Why? Because I just go to watch football, and that's it. I'm certain that if more BAME people wanted to watch football, they would also go. There is nothing to stop them! There are a number of homosexual bars in Bristol, but there is nothing you can do to encourage me, as a hetrosexual, to go in one. Why? Because I don't want to. Are Rugby supporters more integrated in your eyes? Do BAME people go to rugby and not football? To me, this exercise is just something that has been dreamed up to indicate a problem exists, when in reality there isn't any problem. I have no doubt in the new-age world of offence being taken that my words will be taken as being 'passively aggressive discrimination'. Quality Post Sir !
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 11:17:05 GMT
nobbygas, we look forward to hearing your interesting points at next weeks debate. Thanks for entering into the discussion. There is no debate. You have already made your mind up by a/ calling for this debate, and b/ your talk of 'moving the club forward', which indicates that you believe that the club are somehow lacking. All you are looking for is confirmation of your views. I still say there is not a problem. It's just the way it is.
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Post by completewingback on Apr 12, 2018 11:17:38 GMT
Well if we would like to see our fanbase more representative of the great City we live in....then yes there does need to be a debate. Why are most Rappers BAME and not white? In the recent Winter Olympics, why was there a shortage of BAME competitors? Why are most Swimmers white? Why are most racing jockeys white? Why are most horse trainers white? Why are most Sprinters BAME? Why are most distance runners BAME? Why is our Rowing Team white? Why are most Basketball players BAME? Why am I, and others like me, referred to as 'white'? I am not white. I'm more of a peachy colour! - Because rap was created by the opressed BAME population initially as a form of expression of their contempt towards the system (then later it somehow became about jewelry and drugs but that's what happens when revolution goes mainstream), which was - and still is - run by powerful caucasian people. - Because the marjority of the Winter Olympics participants are countries with a predominance of caucasians in their sports, why? See next point: - Because swimming, horseracing, rowing, not to mention chess, tennis, squash, and whatever, have always been touted as "rich people sports" for years now, and this kind of (frankly very stupid) preconception goes into popular subconscious. Guess which ethnic group is likelier to get rich, especially in Europe? - On the other hand, basketball has entrenched itself deep within black culture, to the point where they're pretty much glued together. As such, you'll see more BAME people there. Why? Too simplistic to say "hurr durr it's because they want to !!11!". It's because basketball became the counterpoint to the kid that wanted to run track but was rejected because the owner's son took his spot. It's pretty simple, really. Basketball and football have the "diversity" part checked, you see people from all kinds of walks of life in a team, but that doesn't mean they're completely accepted. Why, our own fanbase has recently seen a racist amongst our ranks shouting abuse during a match - why did he target a BAME player? Is it JUST because that one player wan't playing well..? Or... because you can't really target a caucasian (except with homophobia, which is another conversation entirely)? - And to your last point, which is the only one I agree with, yes: you're a caucasian, not a white. But then again, when everyone calls someone "black" for centuries there's bound to be some confusion as to which terms are usable and which aren't. Anyway, I don't really believe in debating, I just wanted to say my piece and go back to talking about Michael Kelly or transfer signings on the other topics. Hope everyone who can and is interested in going to this seminar goes and show support, and whoever's against it, please just stay at home instead of going just to water and moan about society and whatnot.
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Post by cagastrophy on Apr 12, 2018 11:18:25 GMT
I think it would be nice if everyone in our local community feels welcome to come along to Rovers matches even if they're by themselves or if their dads don't like football and would rather go to the cricket. Meanwhile I think Antonio seems less angry and offended than Oldgas... although I am interested to see how the discussion pans out
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Post by lpgas on Apr 12, 2018 11:58:06 GMT
I just think its down to people who like football and those who dont
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Post by oldgas on Apr 12, 2018 12:04:34 GMT
The perfect example of the paradox of intolerance within a tolerant society. I think it is you who are getting bent out of shape. Once again you have gone into attack mode but obviously can't see it. I would advise you to calm down, but you probably won't take any notice. Anyway, I'm looking forward to Saturday's game. Tonight I'm having a couple of beers with a black mate. I'll probably ask if he's going to the football, but I know he'll say "No", he doesn't really like it. Enjoy the rest of your day, and try not to chew the carpet. No, you're wrong again. I'm perfectly calm. But you're the one who started whining about stuff that you supposedly have no interest in. You're the one accusing me of having an agenda. You're the one saying I'm offended, in place of an actual argument. You're the one who seems to think you're being attacked for thinking outside the box. So you're the one throwing out all the mindless accusations without being able to back them up. This is all weird stuff you've just made up to save you having to actually discuss what you're whining about, coz you don't really seem to have much of a clue. But, you know, carry on pretending that you're being oppressed, or whatever it is you think. You should really understand though that just disagreeing with someone isn't intolerance, especially in a forum deliberately set up for discussion. That's a weird thing you should probably try to get over. Otherwise you're gonna continually think you're always being oppressed, when really people are just disagreeing with you. Wow, just wow! Are you sure you haven't been in the proximity of Yuri Geller? You seem so twisted and bent up over stuff. I advised you to calm down, but you don't appear to have heeded my good council. Ive not whined about anything. I posted in support of cultural diversity, you responded with a 4 line attack on my post which, quite frankly, displayed an incredible level of intolerant aggression. I went on to expand my viewpoint, all you did was respond with more vitriol. I don't feel that I am in any way oppressed, my point of view is that we should live and let live. You don't seem to want to accept that which is fine, but it doesn't make me wrong. Id say you feel you have a balanced view on these matters, I'd say that's only because you seem to have a very large chip on each shoulder. There doesn't seem much point in prolonging this discussion, so I won't be responding to any further comment you care to direct at me. Mind how you go.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Apr 12, 2018 12:22:42 GMT
Wow, just wow! Are you sure you haven't been in the proximity of Yuri Geller? You seem so twisted and bent up over stuff. I advised you to calm down, but you don't appear to have heeded my good council. Seriously matey, if you only rhetorical tactic is to pretend I'm upset, then what is the point of even pretending you're having a reasonable conversation. You don't seem to be able to discuss anything you've actually said or anything I've actually said, all you've done is make up stuff about how I've said things. You've done it again, look.
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