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Post by Henbury Gas on Apr 13, 2018 12:03:21 GMT
Very strange tread.....
Why would anybody feel unwanted at a football game, i've watched Rovers for over 50 years and i have never witnessed anything that would make a person feel unwanted.
Yes you get "Tribal" chanting and that can be unsavory at times but that's part of the spectacle called football.
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Post by tommym9 on Apr 13, 2018 12:14:30 GMT
Very strange tread..... Why would anybody feel unwanted at a football game, i've watched Rovers for over 50 years and i have never witnessed anything that would make a person feel unwanted. Yes you get "Tribal" chanting and that can be unsavory at times but that's part of the spectacle called football. Come now. Someone got kicked out for calling Ellis a very rude word related to his colour. Just because you haven't seen/experienced anything doesn't mean it doesn't go on.
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Post by tutgas on Apr 13, 2018 12:19:05 GMT
Henbury Gas, It would be great to see you at Thursdays discussion and look forward to hearing your views that you can share with our panel and guests. During the discussion you may find that others may have had very different experiences than you.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Apr 13, 2018 12:28:07 GMT
Very strange tread..... Why would anybody feel unwanted at a football game, i've watched Rovers for over 50 years and i have never witnessed anything that would make a person feel unwanted. Yes you get "Tribal" chanting and that can be unsavory at times but that's part of the spectacle called football. Come now. Someone got kicked out for calling Ellis a very rude word related to his colour. Just because you haven't seen/experienced anything doesn't mean it doesn't go on. But That's a society problem not a football problem I was brought up and educated to respect everybody not just a select group of people
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Post by faggotygas on Apr 13, 2018 12:41:59 GMT
Come now. Someone got kicked out for calling Ellis a very rude word related to his colour. Just because you haven't seen/experienced anything doesn't mean it doesn't go on. But That's a society problem not a football problem I was brought up and educated to respect everybody not just a select group of people It may be that our fans are saints, but people who would go otherwise might not go because there is a historic reputation regarding all football crowds.
So why not an extra step to put people at ease?
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 13, 2018 12:48:54 GMT
This thread is a perfect example of exactly why we need this discussion.
The fact that any Rovers fan can take issue with the club attempting to reach out to as many potential new fans as possible is an indication that we have some issues among the fan base.
It's a discussion, nothing more. It may be that there are no issues and everything thing is great. It may be that people who chose not to come to Rovers are exercising simple personal preferences.
But let's not be so arrogant to assume that's the case and for anyone to speak on behalf of others.
Surely the correct thing for a decent community led club to do is to reach out to engage with as many people as possible.
How anyone can take issue with that is utterly beyond me.
We should be welcoming the fact the club is engaging with potential new fans.
We should be praising the club for posting this information here and for encouraging discourse.
Well done and Good luck to the Community Team for reaching out to all fans and especially under-represented groups.
I hope you get all the feedback you need to make any changes and improvements to our club, be it advertising, disabled access, youth initiatives or women's days??
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Post by Henbury Gas on Apr 13, 2018 12:50:55 GMT
But That's a society problem not a football problem I was brought up and educated to respect everybody not just a select group of people It may be that our fans are saints, but people who would go otherwise might not go because there is a historic reputation regarding all football crowds.
So why not an extra step to put people at ease?
Having a debate in a football environment is never going to solve the problem created by society. The only way to solve this problem is correct education and with that there will be no need for the "extra Step" It is not and never has been just a football issue
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Post by syg on Apr 13, 2018 13:15:16 GMT
I agree. Look at the number of BAME managers and coaches compared to the number of black players. There is a disconnect there somewhere. Yep. There should also be action in the world of swimming, as the vast majority of Olympic swimmers appear to be white. Also, in the world of track, the sprinting and long distance events are dominated by people of colour (?). This is obviously wrong and should be addressed. Horse Riding is predominantly white, while most Basketball players are not. While we take pride in our Olympic Rowers we can all see the problem there. All white. Pretty much the same with the Cyclists! The last England football team selected had 5 people of colour out of the eleven players whom started. This is obviously mis-representational and needs to be addressed. Where else can we address this absolute frickin nonsense eh? Olympic swimmers are white due to black people (at least of African descent) being not great swimmers, its due to day/muscle mass. Basically the average Jamaican doesn't float as well! The opposite is true in sprinting, that Jamaican is faster than the average anglosaxon. Its a something I find interesting, but is never mentioned during the athletics TV coverage, presumably as they with get yelled at by someone eating a lentil sandwich. Shame, would like to understand in more detail.
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Post by tommym9 on Apr 13, 2018 14:04:00 GMT
Come now. Someone got kicked out for calling Ellis a very rude word related to his colour. Just because you haven't seen/experienced anything doesn't mean it doesn't go on. But That's a society problem not a football problemĀ I was brought up and educated to respect everybody not just a select group of people I agree it's a societal problem and I think sport and football can be a great vehicle to fixing it. Which is why I'm very glad this event is happening, these kinds of discussions need to happen.
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Post by faggotygas on Apr 13, 2018 14:07:45 GMT
Yep. There should also be action in the world of swimming, as the vast majority of Olympic swimmers appear to be white. Also, in the world of track, the sprinting and long distance events are dominated by people of colour (?). This is obviously wrong and should be addressed. Horse Riding is predominantly white, while most Basketball players are not. While we take pride in our Olympic Rowers we can all see the problem there. All white. Pretty much the same with the Cyclists! The last England football team selected had 5 people of colour out of the eleven players whom started. This is obviously mis-representational and needs to be addressed. Where else can we address this absolute frickin nonsense eh? Olympic swimmers are white due to black people (at least of African descent) being not great swimmers, its due to day/muscle mass. Basically the average Jamaican doesn't float as well! The opposite is true in sprinting, that Jamaican is faster than the average anglosaxon. Its a something I find interesting, but is never mentioned during the athletics TV coverage, presumably as they with get yelled at by someone eating a lentil sandwich. Shame, would like to understand in more detail. There is a genetic factor, but doesn't explain everything - there are cultural issues too. For example, there are very few decent swimming pools in Jamaica compared to running tracks and it's seen as more desirable to get into, as running success has bred more running success. A lot of British potential sprinting stars of all races end up in football or other sports instead, as we have a greater diversity of sport.
A couple of decades ago it was assumed that all heavyweight champions from then on would be black, for the same reasons you mention, but then there were cultural shifts and the spread is now more even.
Another example - Ireland punches above it's weight in Rugby, compared to population size. To find out why, just fly over Dublin and count the density of local rugby grounds.
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Post by faggotygas on Apr 13, 2018 14:15:13 GMT
But That's a society problem not a football problem I was brought up and educated to respect everybody not just a select group of people I agree it's a societal problem and I think sport and football can be a great vehicle to fixing it. Which is why I'm very glad this event is happening, these kinds of discussions need to happen. That's right, how can you divide football and society? Football is part of society.
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Post by pirate49 on Apr 13, 2018 15:21:18 GMT
I go back to a point I made earlier. I'd differentiate between the question of why are certain groups not coming to Rovers and the question of is the club reaching out to, and engaging with, those groups. When I see the disability groups at half-time I think that great work is being done, but why are there so few, if any, BME participants? When the younger BR teams go around the ground at half-time they deserve their applause for their achievements; but why do I see so few 'non-white' coaches. When I go into the shop, use the bar, buy a pasty, buy a programme, go into the shop, I see good people working hard (often for nothing); but how many black faces do I see? When the Community Trust trustees meet how many representatives from minority groups sit around the table? Does the Community Trust engage with the schools in Easton, Stapleton etc. I know of one primary school with multi-form entry in the Eastville area with a rich multi-ethnic intake with no contact with BRFC. When the Directors meet (if they do ) , apart from Wael and family, is it an all white gathering? I'm not advocating positive discrimination, but I feel that the club could do more to reach out to all the communities in Bristol, and recruit staff who better reflect the rich diversity we have in Bristol.
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Post by tutgas on Apr 13, 2018 16:55:18 GMT
Pirate49, You mention in your post that you question who the club is reaching out too? As for BAME participants the club have been running regular free social inclusion football sessions at Horfield for the last 2 years on Friday nights. These sessions regularly see attendances of between 60-100 young people of who approximately 65% are from BAME backgrounds, with many of these coming from the Stapleton and Easton areas you mention, (they are aware of this as participant data is collected that includes postcodes and ethnicity). As for non white coaches, this is exactly why the discussion is being held, to try to attempt to unravel and answer questions such as that. Yes, the community trust does engage with schools in the Easton and Stapleton areas, as they also do in predominantly working class white areas. An example of this is the partnership the Trust has with the organisation Somali Youth Voice who you may have seen having a free morning's coaching session from community coaches before acting as the Guard of Honour at a recent match. This game also saw representatives from City of Sanctuary, another community trust partner organisation based in Bristol who represent refugees in our city, to whom they gave free match tickets and are in the process of developing free football sessions for.
I recognise that you feel the club could do more to reach out to all the communities across Bristol, as do the trust and club, and look forward to hearing your thoughts on how this can be achieved at the upcoming diversity discussion.
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Post by gashead1981 on Apr 13, 2018 17:14:25 GMT
Yep. There should also be action in the world of swimming, as the vast majority of Olympic swimmers appear to be white. Also, in the world of track, the sprinting and long distance events are dominated by people of colour (?). This is obviously wrong and should be addressed. Horse Riding is predominantly white, while most Basketball players are not. While we take pride in our Olympic Rowers we can all see the problem there. All white. Pretty much the same with the Cyclists! The last England football team selected had 5 people of colour out of the eleven players whom started. This is obviously mis-representational and needs to be addressed. Where else can we address this absolute frickin nonsense eh? Olympic swimmers are white due to black people (at least of African descent) being not great swimmers, its due to day/muscle mass. Basically the average Jamaican doesn't float as well! The opposite is true in sprinting, that Jamaican is faster than the average anglosaxon. Its a something I find interesting, but is never mentioned during the athletics TV coverage, presumably as they with get yelled at by someone eating a lentil sandwich. Shame, would like to understand in more detail. Take a degree in sport science and that will give you most answers. A black person could be a great swimmer if he trained like Adam Peaty. A white person can slam dunk a basketball providing he was near over 6 foot and could jump to 7.5 ft to slam it through the hoop, there are plenty of white players in the eastern and western conference. White players tend to play point guard as opposed to forwards and as they are the main points scorers, they become the most famous, Micheal Jordan and Shaq O'Neill for example. How about racing drivers, only Lewis Hamilton has ever been the only non white F1 champion, and there are no others currently good enough to make the F1 cut...? Lewis is one of the best there has ever been, better than Schumacher IMO and equal to Senna but probably not as good as Fangio. Of the current era Alonso is probably Lewis equal and they are a notch ahead of Vettel, but all come from different ethnicities, countries and backgrounds. We could cross sectionalise all sports but for all sportsman it doesnt come down to race, it comes down to dedication, training, opportunity, circumstances and sheer talent and making sure they all come together at the crucial moments.
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Post by pirate49 on Apr 13, 2018 20:12:07 GMT
Pirate49, You mention in your post that you question who the club is reaching out too? As for BAME participants the club have been running regular free social inclusion football sessions at Horfield for the last 2 years on Friday nights. These sessions regularly see attendances of between 60-100 young people of who approximately 65% are from BAME backgrounds, with many of these coming from the Stapleton and Easton areas you mention, (they are aware of this as participant data is collected that includes postcodes and ethnicity). As for non white coaches, this is exactly why the discussion is being held, to try to attempt to unravel and answer questions such as that. Yes, the community trust does engage with schools in the Easton and Stapleton areas, as they also do in predominantly working class white areas. An example of this is the partnership the Trust has with the organisation Somali Youth Voice who you may have seen having a free morning's coaching session from community coaches before acting as the Guard of Honour at a recent match. This game also saw representatives from City of Sanctuary, another community trust partner organisation based in Bristol who represent refugees in our city, to whom they gave free match tickets and are in the process of developing free football sessions for. I recognise that you feel the club could do more to reach out to all the communities across Bristol, as do the trust and club, and look forward to hearing your thoughts on how this can be achieved at the upcoming diversity discussion. Thank you for this detailed reply....obviously much good work is already going on.
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Post by aghast on Apr 13, 2018 20:54:20 GMT
This thread is a perfect example of exactly why we need this discussion. The fact that any Rovers fan can take issue with the club attempting to reach out to as many potential new fans as possible is an indication that we have some issues among the fan base. It's a discussion, nothing more. It may be that there are no issues and everything thing is great. It may be that people who chose not to come to Rovers are exercising simple personal preferences. But let's not be so arrogant to assume that's the case and for anyone to speak on behalf of others. Surely the correct thing for a decent community led club to do is to reach out to engage with as many people as possible. How anyone can take issue with that is utterly beyond me. We should be welcoming the fact the club is engaging with potential new fans. We should be praising the club for posting this information here and for encouraging discourse. Well done and Good luck to the Community Team for reaching out to all fans and especially under-represented groups. I hope you get all the feedback you need to make any changes and improvements to our club, be it advertising, disabled access, youth initiatives or women's days?? A perfect summary. People of the real world, go back to this post from Hugo and give it more Likes.
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Post by althepirate on Apr 13, 2018 21:24:48 GMT
The real world is made up of lots of different opinions,ideas,attitudes and beliefs not just one set and thankfully they can and have been expressed on this thread.
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Post by pirate49 on Apr 13, 2018 21:44:52 GMT
Pirate49, You mention in your post that you question who the club is reaching out too? As for BAME participants the club have been running regular free social inclusion football sessions at Horfield for the last 2 years on Friday nights. These sessions regularly see attendances of between 60-100 young people of who approximately 65% are from BAME backgrounds, with many of these coming from the Stapleton and Easton areas you mention, (they are aware of this as participant data is collected that includes postcodes and ethnicity). As for non white coaches, this is exactly why the discussion is being held, to try to attempt to unravel and answer questions such as that. Yes, the community trust does engage with schools in the Easton and Stapleton areas, as they also do in predominantly working class white areas. An example of this is the partnership the Trust has with the organisation Somali Youth Voice who you may have seen having a free morning's coaching session from community coaches before acting as the Guard of Honour at a recent match. This game also saw representatives from City of Sanctuary, another community trust partner organisation based in Bristol who represent refugees in our city, to whom they gave free match tickets and are in the process of developing free football sessions for. I recognise that you feel the club could do more to reach out to all the communities across Bristol, as do the trust and club, and look forward to hearing your thoughts on how this can be achieved at the upcoming diversity discussion. Thank you for this detailed reply....obviously much good work is already going on. Further to my previous reply, it looks as if it's areas outside the remit of the Community Department which need reviewing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 22:11:00 GMT
Well if we would like to see our fanbase more representative of the great City we live in....then yes there does need to be a debate. Why are most Rappers BAME and not white? In the recent Winter Olympics, why was there a shortage of BAME competitors? Why are most Swimmers white? Why are most racing jockeys white? Why are most horse trainers white? Why are most Sprinters BAME? Why are most distance runners BAME? Why is our Rowing Team white? Why are most Basketball players BAME? Why am I, and others like me, referred to as 'white'? I am not white. I'm more of a peachy colour! The list goes on and on and on..........The 'issue' (if it can be called an issue) is not restricted to football. People go to football because they want to watch football, and there really isn't any other reason. Their skin colour doesn't have any effect on that. I personally couldn't care less about the fanbase being 'representative of our great city'. Why? Because I just go to watch football, and that's it. I'm certain that if more BAME people wanted to watch football, they would also go. There is nothing to stop them! There are a number of homosexual bars in Bristol, but there is nothing you can do to encourage me, as a hetrosexual, to go in one. Why? Because I don't want to. Are Rugby supporters more integrated in your eyes? Do BAME people go to rugby and not football? To me, this exercise is just something that has been dreamed up to indicate a problem exists, when in reality there isn't any problem. I have no doubt in the new-age world of offence being taken that my words will be taken as being 'passively aggressive discrimination'. For me the issue is if a person feels unwelcome or worries they would feel or be unwelcome at a football match even though they would like to go and watch matches then there is a problem worth attempting to correct. To some extent at least i believe the 2 bristol clubs could do better work encouraging BAME people to go to matches. Which is why the "fans for diversity " event is a good thing imo.
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Post by althepirate on Apr 13, 2018 22:41:05 GMT
TBH if BAME were trying to get me to go to an event where they were the majority I would truly say to them 'Leave me alone I'll make my own mind up'
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