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Post by newmarketgas on Apr 24, 2018 11:01:38 GMT
Well I don't think anyone is suggesting a anything only part of the ground. I was just commenting on the comments made about the bangla whoever they are group. And on that point I don't think the bangla bantams are an exclusively Asian membership. Having looked at their Facebook page it doesn't appear that way at least. Interesting, so, 3 of the Oakland group are not white, how will it go down now ?
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Post by Henbury Gas on Apr 24, 2018 11:01:56 GMT
Hhmm, the Bengali Bantams, the Pakistani Pirates, the Gay Pirates..............Can't anyone see that by suggesting/supporting these organised groupings that you are actually encouraging the very same problems that you claim to be addressing? Some people never will and some people will believe that 2 wrongs make a right. Sad. Laws exist to deal with racism but those laws require people to stand up and report the offences. Perhaps it's the attitude of people like peterparker that need to change and report racism. The other way is to do nothing and hope someone else reports it. Think it needs to work both ways
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Post by althepirate on Apr 24, 2018 11:06:02 GMT
If there is a separate group for BAME as I am a white man can I join it or am I excluded because of my race?
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Post by LJG on Apr 24, 2018 11:19:41 GMT
And on that point I don't think the bangla bantams are an exclusively Asian membership. Having looked at their Facebook page it doesn't appear that way at least. Interesting, so, 3 of the Oakland group are not white, how will it go down now ? I don't really care. If you don't want to go to a Bradford City game because a group of Asian people have chosen to sit together then that's a decision for you and maybe there is more reason to have the sort of discussion like the one reported at football clubs. My point was to highlight that from a perspective where you don't have to worry about the colour of your skin being noticed it's very easy to say "why do we need these things"? The truth is we have had racism in football VERY recently - the Sikh referee (never knew his name) who was around in the early 2000s used to get no end of comments on his turban and race - he was a cr@p ref and should have been jeered for that just like any other but why go straight to race and religious clothing? With that in mind it's pretty understandable why people would want to go in a group. If your gripe is "why can't we have all white supporters groups"? Go to South Africa, Barbados, Dubai, Hong Kong probably even as near to home as Spain or Malta and I'm sure you'll be able to join an English ex pats supporters club of some local team or other. Look I'm no bleeding heart liberal but turning the libertarian microscope on these guys is not the right target in my opinion.
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Post by LJG on Apr 24, 2018 11:20:21 GMT
If there is a separate group for BAME as I am a white man can I join it or am I excluded because of my race? It would appear you're free to join the Bangla Bantams.
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Post by newmarketgas on Apr 24, 2018 11:26:03 GMT
Interesting, so, 3 of the Oakland group are not white, how will it go down now ? I don't really care. If you don't want to go to a Bradford City game because a group of Asian people have chosen to sit together then that's a decision for you and maybe there is more reason to have the sort of discussion like the one reported at football clubs. My point was to highlight that from a perspective where you don't have to worry about the colour of your skin being noticed it's very easy to say "why do we need these things"? The truth is we have had racism in football VERY recently - the Sikh referee (never knew his name) who was around in the early 2000s used to get no end of comments on his turban and race - he was a cr@p ref and should have been jeered for that just like any other but why go straight to race and religious clothing? With that in mind it's pretty understandable why people would want to go in a group. If your gripe is "why can't we have all white supporters groups"? Go to South Africa, Barbados, Dubai, Hong Kong probably even as near to home as Spain or Malta and I'm sure you'll be able to join an English ex pats supporters club of some local team or other. Look I'm no bleeding heart liberal but turning the libertarian microscope on these guys is not the right target in my opinion. South Africa was a bad choice in my opinion, you sound like a reasonable chap so I asked if you if you thought mainly bame crowds would like a group of mostly whites turning up at the game and how would they treat them. Simple question, No ?
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Post by LJG on Apr 24, 2018 11:31:21 GMT
I don't really care. If you don't want to go to a Bradford City game because a group of Asian people have chosen to sit together then that's a decision for you and maybe there is more reason to have the sort of discussion like the one reported at football clubs. My point was to highlight that from a perspective where you don't have to worry about the colour of your skin being noticed it's very easy to say "why do we need these things"? The truth is we have had racism in football VERY recently - the Sikh referee (never knew his name) who was around in the early 2000s used to get no end of comments on his turban and race - he was a cr@p ref and should have been jeered for that just like any other but why go straight to race and religious clothing? With that in mind it's pretty understandable why people would want to go in a group. If your gripe is "why can't we have all white supporters groups"? Go to South Africa, Barbados, Dubai, Hong Kong probably even as near to home as Spain or Malta and I'm sure you'll be able to join an English ex pats supporters club of some local team or other. Look I'm no bleeding heart liberal but turning the libertarian microscope on these guys is not the right target in my opinion. South Africa was a bad choice in my opinion, you sound like a reasonable chap so I asked if you if you thought mainly bame crowds would like a group of mostly whites turning up at the game and how would they treat them. Simple question, No ? And I answered it quite simply as best I could - what I think might happen in a hypothetical situation in any number of circumstances anywhere in the world seems like a bit of a conversational cul de sac but ok: I'm sure all white groups attending IPL matches in India are treated perfectly well.
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Post by comptondandogas on Apr 24, 2018 11:32:48 GMT
If there is a separate group for BAME as I am a white man can I join it or am I excluded because of my race? I assume you would be allowed to join, but far more importantly, why do you care?
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Post by newmarketgas on Apr 24, 2018 11:34:53 GMT
South Africa was a bad choice in my opinion, you sound like a reasonable chap so I asked if you if you thought mainly bame crowds would like a group of mostly whites turning up at the game and how would they treat them. Simple question, No ? And I answered it quite simply as best I could - what I think might happen in a hypothetical situation in any number of circumstances anywhere in the world seems like a bit of a conversational cul de sac but ok: I'm sure all white groups attending IPL matches in India are treated perfectly well. Thank you for a civil answer. I won't ask to go back to Oakland because we both know already.
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Post by tommym9 on Apr 24, 2018 11:40:39 GMT
If there is a separate group for BAME as I am a white man can I join it or am I excluded because of my race? You won't be excluded because of your race. Anti-discrimination laws run both ways. Also realistically I doubt any group setup under the fans for diversity banner would exclude someone because of their race. I feel you may be being facetious here.
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Post by LJG on Apr 24, 2018 11:40:40 GMT
And I answered it quite simply as best I could - what I think might happen in a hypothetical situation in any number of circumstances anywhere in the world seems like a bit of a conversational cul de sac but ok: I'm sure all white groups attending IPL matches in India are treated perfectly well. Thank you for a civil answer. I won't ask to go back to Oakland because we both know already. You might think you do. I have no idea.
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Post by althepirate on Apr 24, 2018 11:43:29 GMT
If there is a separate group for BAME as I am a white man can I join it or am I excluded because of my race? I assume you would be allowed to join, but far more importantly, why do you care? Actually I care about everyone, not just the left handed, small man, size 14 collar,seen them play at Eastville, gashead group.
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Post by newmarketgas on Apr 24, 2018 11:46:30 GMT
Thank you for a civil answer. I won't ask to go back to Oakland because we both know already. You might think you do. I have no idea. I have family living near, so it's not so much a think as a know. Good day to you Sir.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Apr 24, 2018 12:11:30 GMT
Some people never will and some people will believe that 2 wrongs make a right. Sad. Laws exist to deal with racism but those laws require people to stand up and report the offences. Perhaps it's the attitude of people like peterparker that need to change and report racism. The other way is to do nothing and hope someone else reports it. I would report racism if I heard it thank you very much.
What I was saying is that these groups are to encourage people to go to football, where they otherwise wouldn't because the wouldn't feel comfortable, or safe or they just never thought about it before. Not encouraging segregation which you seem to think
Well good for you that's the way to go about racism and discrimination. The way not to do it in my view is to create groups along ethnic lines. Christ next thing you know people will be calling for a white supremacist gas group. Unfortunately in diversity people aren't looking for equality but a stick to beat people with to recognise their particular group at the expense of others. I'll support equality but I won't support discrimination, in any form, that supports racism.
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Post by LJG on Apr 24, 2018 12:18:22 GMT
You might think you do. I have no idea. I have family living near, so it's not so much a think as a know. Good day to you Sir. Oh really? With which all white group did you attend a Raiders game? Either way it's a completely anodyne point since (if what you say is true) it would raise the question of why we would want to behave in a manner no better than a place which has the crime and societal issues that it does. Like saying we shouldn't have clean running water because they don't in Eritrea.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Apr 24, 2018 12:28:00 GMT
I have family living near, so it's not so much a think as a know. Good day to you Sir. Oh really? With which all white group did you attend a Raiders game? Either way it's a completely anodyne point since (if what you say is true) it would raise the question of why we would want to behave in a manner no better than a place which has the crime and societal issues that it does. Like saying we shouldn't have clean running water because they don't in Eritrea. What's the issue in Oakland perceived racism? Attended a game there on my own as a white person with no problems at all. Didn't feel out of place or uncomfortable, was I supposed to have imagined the racism? A few Dolphin fans got barracked, can't remember their racial make up, but nothing compared to what happens outside any football ground in England.
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Post by LJG on Apr 24, 2018 12:33:34 GMT
Oh really? With which all white group did you attend a Raiders game? Either way it's a completely anodyne point since (if what you say is true) it would raise the question of why we would want to behave in a manner no better than a place which has the crime and societal issues that it does. Like saying we shouldn't have clean running water because they don't in Eritrea. What's the issue in Oakland perceived racism? Attended a game there on my own as a white person with no problems at all. Didn't feel out of place or uncomfortable, was I supposed to have imagined the racism? A few Dolphin fans got barracked, can't remember their racial make up, but nothing compared to what happens outside any football ground in England. There isn't an issue with perceived racism. If you read back through my posts you'll see I've made no such claim.
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Post by newmarketgas on Apr 24, 2018 12:37:13 GMT
I have family living near, so it's not so much a think as a know. Good day to you Sir. Oh really? With which all white group did you attend a Raiders game?Either way it's a completely anodyne point since (if what you say is true) it would raise the question of why we would want to behave in a manner no better than a place which has the crime and societal issues that it does. Like saying we shouldn't have clean running water because they don't in Eritrea. I never said I did, you are just chewing your own arse now, like a dog with fleas. Interesting that you question my honesty ?
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Post by gashead1981 on Apr 24, 2018 12:37:22 GMT
It’s not encouraging segregation at all. It’s encouraging people of all races/creeds/religions to go to football. Joining a social group to meet people who have similar interests is nothing new in society.
For example, consider a single woman who enjoys a game of footy but none of your friends do and none of them are interested in going either and won’t go, but there is a “women for footy” group who all meet up before a game, have a drink, watch the game, and maybe have some association afterwards, is that such a problem? Perhaps inside that group there would be some BAME members too. If that single person then met a bloke who like to go to football, would that group not allow him to come along? Of course they probably would, why should friendships be broken because someone fell in love? Isn’t that a positive all round?
I don’t see how the above could possibly be a negative if there would be an Asian, Chinese, black....insert your chosen race/creed/religion here....all had a similar group which encouraged them to meet up and go to the footy together. If a person of BAME then made a new white mate to tag along would you think they would say no to him having a pint and a watch of the game? I doubt it.
If these groups stand/sit in the same place they may well tend to mingle anyway, possibly make a few other friends too.
I think some people are making a particular fuss over nothing and looking for negatives when there isn’t really one.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Apr 24, 2018 12:49:53 GMT
What's the issue in Oakland perceived racism? Attended a game there on my own as a white person with no problems at all. Didn't feel out of place or uncomfortable, was I supposed to have imagined the racism? A few Dolphin fans got barracked, can't remember their racial make up, but nothing compared to what happens outside any football ground in England. There isn't an issue with perceived racism. If you read back through my posts you'll see I've made no such claim. Well certainly I didn't encounter any racism regardless of the ethic make up of the crowd. Then again its not something I would go looking to find, though I think there are plenty of people that look for it.
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