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Post by countygroundhotel on May 9, 2018 13:06:10 GMT
The recent history of football clubs shows that in the main fans don't care, or care enough to ask questions, about the finances of the club they support until it's too late and that club has gone into administration. No suggestion there that we are going into administration but as I can't see a clear business plan, to stem the losses, I'll continue asking questions about how and why the club is financed County It's perfectly acceptable to ask questions but with no guarantee of answers it which will leave you even more frustrated. Any answers by other fans will be pure conjecture as with the BoD running a tighter ship than previous regimes there are no longer those who are in the know. If you have questions why don't you contact the owners direct? others seem to have got responses of sorts.... Simply because you can't see a business plan doesn't mean that there isn't one.... Regards And equality because we haven't been shown one that doesn't mean it exists. In fact if there was any tangible evidence of improved financial performance then I'd accept that as proof one does exist. However I don't see it. In the meantime the owners expect us to continue to invest money and time on trust & passion and blind belief. Which equates to the previous owners business plan. Fair point about asking directly though
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Post by countygroundhotel on May 9, 2018 13:09:49 GMT
The recent history of football clubs shows that in the main fans don't care, or care enough to ask questions, about the finances of the club they support until it's too late and that club has gone into administration. No suggestion there that we are going into administration but as I can't see a clear business plan, to stem the losses, I'll continue asking questions about how and why the club is financed That is a perfectly sensible argument which I get and respect. We want to know but I don’t think we have a right to know anything though. I'd disagree the owners rely on our goodwill, passion and blind belief in return I'd expect them to offer us something. It certainly isn't the quality of the match day experience that has us battering down the gates. Though on the pitch I thoroughly enjoy DCs approach to the game but if he leaves we could be straight back to a dull pragmatist like trollope
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Post by faggotygas on May 9, 2018 13:27:45 GMT
Like countygroundhotel I also think it's a good thing to see the new appointments made at various levels, but there is that nagging question that needs to be answered. We are increasing our costs/overheads etc, yet there hasn't been anything released that details how we are going to pay for it all? Where will the increased revenue streams come from? The Colony will not make any money. A training ground is just a cost. OK, you could make the training/weights/exercise room open to the public to help pay it's way, but the bottom line is that it will not make a profit. Costs are going up, debts are going up......how long can that continue? Surely the point of a training ground is that it allows you to increase footballing revenue - from transfer fees received and the extra income that comes from being higher up the league (due to better training). A bit intangible, but there you are.
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Post by blueridge on May 9, 2018 14:48:44 GMT
Like countygroundhotel I also think it's a good thing to see the new appointments made at various levels, but there is that nagging question that needs to be answered. We are increasing our costs/overheads etc, yet there hasn't been anything released that details how we are going to pay for it all? Where will the increased revenue streams come from? The Colony will not make any money. A training ground is just a cost. OK, you could make the training/weights/exercise room open to the public to help pay it's way, but the bottom line is that it will not make a profit. Costs are going up, debts are going up......how long can that continue? Genuine question - will BRFC be paying Dwane Sports Colony to use the Colony?
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Post by Topper Gas on May 9, 2018 15:07:57 GMT
Like countygroundhotel I also think it's a good thing to see the new appointments made at various levels, but there is that nagging question that needs to be answered. We are increasing our costs/overheads etc, yet there hasn't been anything released that details how we are going to pay for it all? Where will the increased revenue streams come from? The Colony will not make any money. A training ground is just a cost. OK, you could make the training/weights/exercise room open to the public to help pay it's way, but the bottom line is that it will not make a profit. Costs are going up, debts are going up......how long can that continue? Genuine question - will BRFC be paying Dwane Sports Colony to use the Colony? Before we answer that surely we need to know who is going to pay to develop the training ground, if it is DS then is there really any issue with paying them to use the facilities, assuming it's at a reasonable cost? As far as CCH seeking a business plan, does any football club release one on an annual basis to their supporters? Although it's a bit of a mystery how both SH & Wael have managed to avoid giving any press interviews in the past few months.
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Post by warehamgas on May 9, 2018 15:19:01 GMT
Like most on here I do care about the finances of our club, it’s not only you who cares, but realise there is little any of us can do about it. We go to matches, support the club and hope we do well. I’ve said all along that I would like to see better communication about what their vision is for the club but have now realised I will not see a “clear business plan” outlined. They have talked about things in a ad hoc way and I now realise they keep things very close to their chests and do not publicise what’s going to happen. That is their way of doing things I think. I’m not worried by this as it appears to be their preferred way of working. Their actions, 5 year contract for our manager, supporting him in the transfer market which they have done (I know others may disagree), improved support staff across the club, the improvement to the pitch, small things around the stadium, appointment of key staff, Tom Gorringe, Tommy Widdrington to key positions (which most on here have said were needed) and the development squad all show a commitment to the club and speak louder than words anyway. I care deeply about this club and all parts of it but I am less worried by these owners than I have been about others. I wish they’d communicate better but I accept that they have a way of doing it. UTG! Why worry about other owners, presumably NG & Co? They are the past and nothing to do with the club now. The Al qadis running the club better than NH is irrelevant it's whether they are running our club better than are competitors Please read what I said. I am not worrying about past owners as they are the past. It was not a dig at anyone and not especially “NG & Co”, whoever they are. I am presuming you mean Nick Higgs, which is usually NH. I am making the point that the AlQadis in charge of BRFC are trying to improve us in the ways I mentioned and have the means to do so. Past owners did not have the means so I am more confident that these owners will be able to. With what they’ve done and the appointments made they are certainly trying to close the gap, increase turnover and income and run us as as well as, if not better, than our competitors. UTG!
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Post by countygroundhotel on May 9, 2018 16:35:42 GMT
Why worry about other owners, presumably NG & Co? They are the past and nothing to do with the club now. The Al qadis running the club better than NH is irrelevant it's whether they are running our club better than are competitors Please read what I said. I am not worrying about past owners as they are the past. It was not a dig at anyone and not especially “NG & Co”, whoever they are. I am presuming you mean Nick Higgs, which is usually NH. I am making the point that the AlQadis in charge of BRFC are trying to improve us in the ways I mentioned and have the means to do so. Past owners did not have the means so I am more confident that these owners will be able to. With what they’ve done and the appointments made they are certainly trying to close the gap, increase turnover and income and run us as as well as, if not better, than our competitors. UTG! I have more confidence in the current owners but that confidence isn't overly high because I've yet to see much apart from rising costs. Still as always UTG
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Post by Topper Gas on May 9, 2018 17:04:24 GMT
Why worry about other owners, presumably NG & Co? They are the past and nothing to do with the club now. The Al qadis running the club better than NH is irrelevant it's whether they are running our club better than are competitors Please read what I said. I am not worrying about past owners as they are the past. It was not a dig at anyone and not especially “NG & Co”, whoever they are. I am presuming you mean Nick Higgs, which is usually NH. I am making the point that the AlQadis in charge of BRFC are trying to improve us in the ways I mentioned and have the means to do so. Past owners did not have the means so I am more confident that these owners will be able to. With what they’ve done and the appointments made they are certainly trying to close the gap, increase turnover and income and run us as as well as, if not better, than our competitors. UTG! Out of interest how do you know they have the means to take a £2/3m loss every season for the next 5/10 years before they are likely to see any return on their investment, should we ever get to see a new stadium built?
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Post by lpgas on May 9, 2018 17:16:51 GMT
Like countygroundhotel I also think it's a good thing to see the new appointments made at various levels, but there is that nagging question that needs to be answered. We are increasing our costs/overheads etc, yet there hasn't been anything released that details how we are going to pay for it all? Where will the increased revenue streams come from? The Colony will not make any money. A training ground is just a cost. OK, you could make the training/weights/exercise room open to the public to help pay it's way, but the bottom line is that it will not make a profit. Costs are going up, debts are going up......how long can that continue? You get a grant from the FA if you have so many teams under a certain age. I know I read somewhere that Bolton had a payment of 180k from the FA. At the moment we pay rent to all those pitches
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Post by warehamgas on May 9, 2018 17:59:08 GMT
Please read what I said. I am not worrying about past owners as they are the past. It was not a dig at anyone and not especially “NG & Co”, whoever they are. I am presuming you mean Nick Higgs, which is usually NH. I am making the point that the AlQadis in charge of BRFC are trying to improve us in the ways I mentioned and have the means to do so. Past owners did not have the means so I am more confident that these owners will be able to. With what they’ve done and the appointments made they are certainly trying to close the gap, increase turnover and income and run us as as well as, if not better, than our competitors. UTG! Out of interest how do you know they have the means to take a £2/3m loss every season for the next 5/10 years before they are likely to see any return on their investment, should we ever get to see a new stadium built? I don’t suppose anyone on here actually “knows”, blimey it’s a forum. I’d be pretty sure that part of the plan will not be to take those losses for the next “5/10 years” and that at some stage those losses would lessen as income streams increase. As bankers I’d be pretty certain they have a plan to turn the losses into profit but it’s unlikely we will be told what it is and in a way we dont need to be told. They are the owners, it’s their money they can do what they want. As I said their actions are speaking louder than their words. As Rovers fans we are a bit bemused by seeing owners spend money on stuff like they are doing, it’s never been like that! But like most on here I am only watching what they are doing and trying to see what the plan appears to be. I’ve been pretty supportive of the owners but they could do themselves a favour by communicating better to answer these questions but this season after the UWE went kaput I think they will just do what they intend to without telling the fans too much detail. And the new ground or lack of it remains the elephant in the room. UTG!
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Post by Topper Gas on May 9, 2018 18:25:35 GMT
Out of interest how do you know they have the means to take a £2/3m loss every season for the next 5/10 years before they are likely to see any return on their investment, should we ever get to see a new stadium built? I don’t suppose anyone on here actually “knows”, blimey it’s a forum. I’d be pretty sure that part of the plan will not be to take those losses for the next “5/10 years” and that at some stage those losses would lessen as income streams increase. As bankers I’d be pretty certain they have a plan to turn the losses into profit but it’s unlikely we will be told what it is and in a way we dont need to be told. They are the owners, it’s their money they can do what they want. As I said their actions are speaking louder than their words. As Rovers fans we are a bit bemused by seeing owners spend money on stuff like they are doing, it’s never been like that! But like most on here I am only watching what they are doing and trying to see what the plan appears to be. I’ve been pretty supportive of the owners but they could do themselves a favour by communicating better to answer these questions but this season after the UWE went kaput I think they will just do what they intend to without telling the fans too much detail. And the new ground or lack of it remains the elephant in the room. UTG! Whilst we're stuck at a delidated Mem with terracing and tents I can't see how the ALQ's can increase income streams to lessen the losses to any significant degree, whilst it will be nice to have a training ground and the Development Squad unless we get lucky and develop a decent player then manage to sell him for a decent price, rather than just give them away, we may make some money but that's hardly a business plan. Perhaps the ALQ's have got a spare £30m to throw away on an EFL club, or are just happy to have it tied up in one for 5/10 years but it's far from clear what their intentions really are and whether they do have access to the vast sums needed to develop the training ground and a new stadium.
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Post by althepirate on May 9, 2018 19:01:47 GMT
Just a thought, perhaps the fans asking pertinent questions should buy shares in the club and so be able to ask these questions at the relevant time. I don't know a great deal about complex business finance but aren't we just using the collateral of the Mem to invest from the bottom up? Isn't this the same as using the collateral of a house to build an extension, bathroom, kitchen etc? On both examples we expect to increase the value of the business/home. Albeit a little more risky to invest in people than buildings though. Perhaps I'm totally wrong I don't know 😊
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Post by South Stand Ultra on May 9, 2018 21:42:12 GMT
Just a thought, perhaps the fans asking pertinent questions should buy shares in the club and so be able to ask these questions at the relevant time. I don't know a great deal about complex business finance but aren't we just using the collateral of the Mem to invest from the bottom up? Isn't this the same as using the collateral of a house to build an extension, bathroom, kitchen etc? On both examples we expect to increase the value of the business/home. Albeit a little more risky to invest in people than buildings though. Perhaps I'm totally wrong I don't know 😊 So only shareholders are allowed to ask questions of our club? IMO any fan should be able to question our club.
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Post by gasincider on May 10, 2018 0:30:41 GMT
Like countygroundhotel I also think it's a good thing to see the new appointments made at various levels, but there is that nagging question that needs to be answered. We are increasing our costs/overheads etc, yet there hasn't been anything released that details how we are going to pay for it all? Where will the increased revenue streams come from? The Colony will not make any money. A training ground is just a cost. OK, you could make the training/weights/exercise room open to the public to help pay it's way, but the bottom line is that it will not make a profit. Costs are going up, debts are going up......how long can that continue? Surely the point of a training ground is that it allows you to increase footballing revenue - from transfer fees received and the extra income that comes from being higher up the league (due to better training). A bit intangible, but there you are. Pie in the sky. New owners required. Keep the faith
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Post by Henbury Gas on May 10, 2018 1:08:09 GMT
Surely the point of a training ground is that it allows you to increase footballing revenue - from transfer fees received and the extra income that comes from being higher up the league (due to better training). A bit intangible, but there you are. Pie in the sky. New owners required. Keep the faith When do you expect the new owners to take over the "Corridors of power" ? Tomorrow ? next week ? Next year ? Turn of the century ?
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Post by althepirate on May 10, 2018 5:57:10 GMT
Just a thought, perhaps the fans asking pertinent questions should buy shares in the club and so be able to ask these questions at the relevant time. I don't know a great deal about complex business finance but aren't we just using the collateral of the Mem to invest from the bottom up? Isn't this the same as using the collateral of a house to build an extension, bathroom, kitchen etc? On both examples we expect to increase the value of the business/home. Albeit a little more risky to invest in people than buildings though. Perhaps I'm totally wrong I don't know 😊 So only shareholders are allowed to ask questions of our club? IMO any fan should be able to question our club. It's a matter of opinion if people think because they shop in Marks and Spencer every week that they should know their business plan. Would you like Landsdown knowing our plans? Obviously he would if they were common knowledge.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 10, 2018 6:07:10 GMT
So only shareholders are allowed to ask questions of our club? IMO any fan should be able to question our club. It's a matter of opinion if people think because they shop in Marks and Spencer every week that they should know their business plan. Would you like Landsdown knowing our plans? Obviously he would if they were common knowledge. That's a good point. If the rosy faced twat knew our plans I'm sure he would do all he could to f**k them up for us.
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Post by althepirate on May 10, 2018 6:54:19 GMT
It's a matter of opinion if people think because they shop in Marks and Spencer every week that they should know their business plan. Would you like Landsdown knowing our plans? Obviously he would if they were common knowledge. That's a good point. If the rosy faced twat knew our plans I'm sure he would do all he could to f**k them up for us. MY personal opinion about Taylor Hugo, was that he only bought him to f**k us up, to stop us getting promotion and many would argue that he achieved that aim. I'm sure some businessmen not only seek to beat their competitors, fair enough, but also to stop them being successful. An example is where land is bought by supermarkets who haven't any intention of building on it, but just to stop the competition from doing so.
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Post by stuart1974 on May 10, 2018 7:01:00 GMT
So only shareholders are allowed to ask questions of our club? IMO any fan should be able to question our club. It's a matter of opinion if people think because they shop in Marks and Spencer every week that they should know their business plan. Would you like Landsdown knowing our plans? Obviously he would if they were common knowledge. And in there is the problem. A high level plan won't be detailed enough to answer the questions and anything detailed will be commercially sensitive, especially if there are third parties involved. I've posted before what I think is their intention so I won't bore people again, but whilst player recruitment and stadium are the main fan concerns don't ignore the non player recruitment and incremental improvements to the Mem. Companies sometimes issue vague 'mission statements or visions'and I think we had that on day one. Evolution not revolution and tackle each division as it comes. To me that means Wael wants a sustainable club.
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Post by Severncider on May 10, 2018 7:02:38 GMT
Just a thought, perhaps the fans asking pertinent questions should buy shares in the club and so be able to ask these questions at the relevant time. I don't know a great deal about complex business finance but aren't we just using the collateral of the Mem to invest from the bottom up? Isn't this the same as using the collateral of a house to build an extension, bathroom, kitchen etc? On both examples we expect to increase the value of the business/home. Albeit a little more risky to invest in people than buildings though. Perhaps I'm totally wrong I don't know 😊 I'm afraid that is not possible as no shares have been on offer for many years
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