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Post by knowall on Jul 9, 2018 14:43:29 GMT
Well you could ask Coventry fans about their owners who were so hell bent on a new stadium they entered into an unworkable partnership (although that's a bit too close to the UWE scenario!)...so let's use the example of the owners funding the team and the stadium....until they stopped...let's ask the fans of Rushden and irthlingborough Diamonds about the success of their owners in providing a brand spanking new stadium for their merged clubs to play in..oh you can't!
So without a new stadium how do you propose we stop losing millions every year?
Produce youth players that get snapped up by top clubs for a token tribunal fee?
Sell best players for way below their market value because we don't offer long contracts?
Look at the teds using their facilities as a fans-zone to watch the England games generating large income, what did we have?
Yes,lets, their backroom structure was improved several years before they transformed the stadium.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Jul 9, 2018 14:44:14 GMT
I know it’s incredible isn’t it? I remember so well the buckets at the ground to collect coins and this week they paid £4.75m to the PL because they broke the financial fair play rules. And they did it without blinking!! Absolutely amazing. I’ve sat in the same seat for 15/16 seasons with son and I can even remember celebrating Curetons goal when we won here so most know who I support and the p*** taking over the past has been merciless. Never mind as I tell them our turn will come! To answer your question I reckon it’s fairly simple, Eddie Howe. He has shown what can be done with half decent players, a positive approach and excellent man management skills. Problem is people like EH don’t come along too often. UTG!
Very true!! So do Bournemouth have decent training facilities and youth system?
either way it was a massive turnaround, probably even more impressive than Swansea!!
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Post by lastminutewinner on Jul 9, 2018 14:47:15 GMT
So without a new stadium how do you propose we stop losing millions every year?
Produce youth players that get snapped up by top clubs for a token tribunal fee?
Sell best players for way below their market value because we don't offer long contracts?
Look at the teds using their facilities as a fans-zone to watch the England games generating large income, what did we have?
Yes,lets, their backroom structure was improved several years before they transformed the stadium.
But they had the money person to pay for it, We/Bristol Rovers/Wael/Dwayne Sports etc clearly don't
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 9, 2018 14:49:05 GMT
They always had a fairly good youth system. Joe P and now Sam Matthews came through it. But now they’re in the PL the bar for their youth players has been raised and Bailey Cargill who was their stand out young player two years ago has just been released. Was on loan at Gillingham, I think, last year. Much harder for their younger players now. UTG!
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 9, 2018 14:52:22 GMT
Actually in many ways Bournemouth are a very good example of evolution. There were times even last season, their third in the PL, when 6/7 players playing were with them in League 1 in 12/13 when they got promoted. There was no revolution at Bournemouth over the years. But I know what you mean lastminute, they certainly didn’t hang around in the Championship, only two seasons. When they were in the Championship the ownership changed from Eddie Mitchell, local businessman to Max Denim, Russian rich man. Mitchell said he had taken them as far as he could afford. Bournemouth is the example of what you can achieve with some money but not loads of it and a principled manager. It’s a lot more about Eddie H than the money. UTG! edit: reading what lastminute said in a later thread he is right. Rovers do need a stadium to develop further income. Using Bournemouth as a comparison is probably not the best example. Bournemouth could not have continued in the Championship with only a stadium of 11,400. Denim picked up their losses in first year. Bournemouth just hit the jackpot in getting to the PL where it’s all about TV income. They struck lucky and did not have to develop income streams, although they do now. Other clubs will be a nearer comparison for Rovers. Maxim Demin basically bankrolled the club since 2011 when he became 50 per cent stakeholder. Their transfer record was smashed in the first January window – spending £800,000 on Matt Tubbs. When the club were in League One they were the division’s biggest spenders as they splashed out over a million more than any other club on transfers. In the Championship they signed striker Tokelo Rantie for about £2.5 million before the 2013/14 season and then Callum Wilson for around £3m the following summer. Eddie Howe said: "He has invested in the facilities not just the playing squad but he has put his own money in to take his club into a different era." Tokelo Rantie was their equivalent to our Tom Nicholls! Very poor in comparison to players who were there and never made it with Bournemouth. Callum Wilson was the standout player who did cost a bit. UTG!
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Post by knowall on Jul 9, 2018 14:57:15 GMT
so do you not agree with our owners investing in youth development teams which is also of huge benefit to the future of our football club to produce local talent and to also serve as another revenue stream? They are doing what they set out to from the beginning , I Agee the stadium saga is irritating and needs to be resolved but surely you can also see the positives that are happening at the moment?
In my eyes a lot of the improvements are low hanging fruit. Of course the development is a good thing as some clubs cant afford/be bothered to run one, but ultimately the owners will be judged on whether they can bring a new stadium or at least a decent training base.
I think most supporters will judge them on promotion to a higher divn and the standard of football, and one way to get that and then a new stadium is improvement behind the scenes and on the pitch which is happening
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pirate
Forum Legend
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Post by pirate on Jul 9, 2018 14:58:16 GMT
Actually in many ways Bournemouth are a very good example of evolution. There were times even last season, their third in the PL, when 6/7 players playing were with them in League 1 in 12/13 when they got promoted. There was no revolution at Bournemouth over the years. But I know what you mean lastminute, they certainly didn’t hang around in the Championship, only two seasons. When they were in the Championship the ownership changed from Eddie Mitchell, local businessman to Max Denim, Russian rich man. Mitchell said he had taken them as far as he could afford. Bournemouth is the example of what you can achieve with some money but not loads of it and a principled manager. It’s a lot more about Eddie H than the money. UTG! edit: reading what lastminute said in a later thread he is right. Rovers do need a stadium to develop further income. Using Bournemouth as a comparison is probably not the best example. Bournemouth could not have continued in the Championship with only a stadium of 11,400. Denim picked up their losses in first year. Bournemouth just hit the jackpot in getting to the PL where it’s all about TV income. They struck lucky and did not have to develop income streams, although they do now. Other clubs will be a nearer comparison for Rovers.
As someone in that local area how did Bournemouth go from having collections to save their existence, to the Championship?
Like I said to Wareham, Demin basically bankrolled the club since 2011. They smashed their transfer record in the first January window spending £800,000 on Matt Tubbs. In League One they were the division’s biggest spenders as they splashed out over a million more than any other club on transfers. In the Championship they signed striker Tokelo Rantie for about £2.5 million and then Callum Wilson for around £3m the following summer. Eddie Howe said: "He has invested in the facilities not just the playing squad but he has put his own money in to take his club into a different era." The 13/14 accounts showed debt of £21.5m and the following season Bournemouth’s £39 million loss was the largest in the Championship for 14/15, ahead of Fulham £27 million, Nottingham Forest £22 million and Blackburn Rovers £17 million.
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Post by knowall on Jul 9, 2018 15:05:42 GMT
Yes,lets, their backroom structure was improved several years before they transformed the stadium. But they had the money person to pay for it, We/Bristol Rovers/Wael/Dwayne Sports etc clearly don't
You (clearly) do not know that - and SL did spend time and money bringing in his backroom staff well before he spent on their stadium His mistake was in choice of manager and he tried several before getting the one he (clearly) seems happy with - we are lucky in that we have the best already.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 9, 2018 15:11:08 GMT
Yes,lets, their backroom structure was improved several years before they transformed the stadium.
But they had the money person to pay for it, We/Bristol Rovers/Wael/Dwayne Sports etc clearly don't
That's opinion, not fact. It's not clear they have no money.
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Post by cj on Jul 9, 2018 15:29:06 GMT
Well you could ask Coventry fans about their owners who were so hell bent on a new stadium they entered into an unworkable partnership (although that's a bit too close to the UWE scenario!)...so let's use the example of the owners funding the team and the stadium....until they stopped...let's ask the fans of Rushden and irthlingborough Diamonds about the success of their owners in providing a brand spanking new stadium for their merged clubs to play in..oh you can't!
So without a new stadium how do you propose we stop losing millions every year?
Produce youth players that get snapped up by top clubs for a token tribunal fee?
Sell best players for way below their market value because we don't offer long contracts?
Look at the teds using their facilities as a fans-zone to watch the England games generating large income, what did we have?
Indeed. Lets look at them lot. Since Lansdown has been in charge, how long did it take him to get these said facilities that you are talking about? Some may say that its been evolution with that lot too as its been quite a few years since his arrival to where they are now with said facilities! Its not as if he just arrived 2 years ago (like Wael) and bang, a redeveloped Trashton appears with facilities to generate extra income with fans zones. You havent even given Wael a chance with your statement. And the question at the end, what did we have? Again, give Wael a chance. Isnt he paying for the clubhouse to be redeveloped which is currently happening NOW, to make it bigger and better on matchdays and no doubt non matchdays too? Again, he has only been here for 2 years. When has he had t he chance to have done this earlier??? Think about it.
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Post by cj on Jul 9, 2018 15:30:01 GMT
Actually in many ways Bournemouth are a very good example of evolution. There were times even last season, their third in the PL, when 6/7 players playing were with them in League 1 in 12/13 when they got promoted. There was no revolution at Bournemouth over the years. But I know what you mean lastminute, they certainly didn’t hang around in the Championship, only two seasons. When they were in the Championship the ownership changed from Eddie Mitchell, local businessman to Max Denim, Russian rich man. Mitchell said he had taken them as far as he could afford. Bournemouth is the example of what you can achieve with some money but not loads of it and a principled manager. It’s a lot more about Eddie H than the money. UTG! edit: reading what lastminute said in a later thread he is right. Rovers do need a stadium to develop further income. Using Bournemouth as a comparison is probably not the best example. Bournemouth could not have continued in the Championship with only a stadium of 11,400. Denim picked up their losses in first year. Bournemouth just hit the jackpot in getting to the PL where it’s all about TV income. They struck lucky and did not have to develop income streams, although they do now. Other clubs will be a nearer comparison for Rovers. Maxim Demin basically bankrolled the club since 2011 when he became 50 per cent stakeholder. Their transfer record was smashed in the first January window – spending £800,000 on Matt Tubbs. When the club were in League One they were the division’s biggest spenders as they splashed out over a million more than any other club on transfers. In the Championship they signed striker Tokelo Rantie for about £2.5 million before the 2013/14 season and then Callum Wilson for around £3m the following summer. Eddie Howe said: "He has invested in the facilities not just the playing squad but he has put his own money in to take his club into a different era." Was all this before the FFP rules too?
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Post by lastminutewinner on Jul 9, 2018 15:33:45 GMT
But they had the money person to pay for it, We/Bristol Rovers/Wael/Dwayne Sports etc clearly don't
That's opinion, not fact. It's not clear they have no money.
I didn't say they had no money but they certainly aren't looking to fund it without investors.
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 18,655
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Post by pirate on Jul 9, 2018 15:36:55 GMT
Maxim Demin basically bankrolled the club since 2011 when he became 50 per cent stakeholder. Their transfer record was smashed in the first January window – spending £800,000 on Matt Tubbs. When the club were in League One they were the division’s biggest spenders as they splashed out over a million more than any other club on transfers. In the Championship they signed striker Tokelo Rantie for about £2.5 million before the 2013/14 season and then Callum Wilson for around £3m the following summer. Eddie Howe said: "He has invested in the facilities not just the playing squad but he has put his own money in to take his club into a different era." Was all this before the FFP rules too? This was 5 days ago... Bournemouth agree £4.75m settlement with EFL for breach of FFP rules uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-england-bou-efl-ffp/bournemouth-to-pay-475-million-pounds-for-ffp-rules-breach-idUKKBN1JV0ZW
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Post by lastminutewinner on Jul 9, 2018 15:39:06 GMT
In my eyes a lot of the improvements are low hanging fruit. Of course the development is a good thing as some clubs cant afford/be bothered to run one, but ultimately the owners will be judged on whether they can bring a new stadium or at least a decent training base.
I think most supporters will judge them on promotion to a higher divn and the standard of football, and one way to get that and then a new stadium is improvement behind the scenes and on the pitch which is happening
I don't think its a coincidence most promoted teams from L1 over the last few years have had a lot more financial clout than the rest.
You would be very lucky to get to the Championship these days if you don't spend money, whether that is on wages or transfer fees, probably both.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 15:46:13 GMT
So without a new stadium how do you propose we stop losing millions every year?
Produce youth players that get snapped up by top clubs for a token tribunal fee?
Sell best players for way below their market value because we don't offer long contracts?
Look at the teds using their facilities as a fans-zone to watch the England games generating large income, what did we have?
Indeed. Lets look at them lot. Since Lansdown has been in charge, how long did it take him to get these said facilities that you are talking about? Some may say that its been evolution with that lot too as its been quite a few years since his arrival to where they are now with said facilities! Its not as if he just arrived 2 years ago (like Wael) and bang, a redeveloped Trashton appears with facilities to generate extra income with fans zones. You havent even given Wael a chance with your statement. And the question at the end, what did we have? Again, give Wael a chance. Isnt he paying for the clubhouse to be redeveloped which is currently happening NOW, to make it bigger and better on matchdays and no doubt non matchdays too? Again, he has only been here for 2 years. When has he had t he chance to have done this earlier??? Think about it. Mr Lansdown wasn't as wealthy when he first took over, also he wanted to build at Ashton Vale so no need to develop the ground. When the new ground fell through,after some years, he then looked to improve Ashton Gate, which didn't seem to take long at all. Waste of time comparing with them anyway as he had the money and paid for it himself, our owners have chosen a different route. Their money their choice.
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Post by cj on Jul 9, 2018 15:48:01 GMT
That was for breaching the FFP rules during their promotion season to the Prem. Prior to that, with the money they spent in L1, was that before FFP?
Also, reading the story that you kindly provided for me, looks like the breach was accidental hence the small fine due to it being a settlement.
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Post by Gastafari on Jul 9, 2018 15:53:40 GMT
I wonder if Bournemouth fans are wishing they were still evolving in L1/L2? I also wonder how long the current owners will continue to cover the clubs annual debt with no real means of getting any of it back (ie new stadium) We"ve done just as well as Bournemouth in the same time frame. Bournemouth were a division above us in League 2, while our "Evolution" has seen us come from The Conference. It took Bournemouth 6 years to get from League 2 to the Premier League. Id hope that we could get to The Championship within 2 years, which would see us go from Conference to Championship in a shorter time frame. Plus Rovers haven't been the biggest spenders in a division, and haven't completely smashed our transfer records every season unlike Bournemouth. Bournemouth did brilliantly in making more money than they spent in getting there though.
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Post by Gastafari on Jul 9, 2018 15:58:15 GMT
That was for breaching the FFP rules during their promotion season to the Prem. Prior to that, with the money they spent in L1, was that before FFP?
Also, reading the story that you kindly provided for me, looks like the breach was accidental hence the small fine due to it being a settlement.
Bournemouth made more money from selling players than they spent.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 9, 2018 16:01:11 GMT
That was for breaching the FFP rules during their promotion season to the Prem. Prior to that, with the money they spent in L1, was that before FFP?
Also, reading the story that you kindly provided for me, looks like the breach was accidental hence the small fine due to it being a settlement.
I could be wrong, but I don't think they broke any rules prior to that. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29361839
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Post by lastminutewinner on Jul 9, 2018 16:04:11 GMT
I wonder if Bournemouth fans are wishing they were still evolving in L1/L2? I also wonder how long the current owners will continue to cover the clubs annual debt with no real means of getting any of it back (ie new stadium) We"ve done just as well as Bournemouth in the same time frame. Bournemouth were a division above us in League 2, while our "Evolution" has seen us come from The Conference. It took Bournemouth 6 years to get from League 2 to the Premier League. Id hope that we could get to The Championship within 2 years, which would see us go from Conference to Championship in a shorter time frame. Plus Rovers haven't been the biggest spenders in a division, and haven't completely smashed our transfer records every season unlike Bournemouth.Bournemouth did brilliantly in making more money than they spent in getting there though.
You can get promoted from the conference and L2 without spending much money, but the big test is to do it from L1 to the Championship where you really do need a cash injection.
If our evolution has started since the conference then credit must mainly go to the old board who were at the helm for most part of the 2 promotion seasons?
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