pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 9, 2018 16:10:39 GMT
That was for breaching the FFP rules during their promotion season to the Prem. Prior to that, with the money they spent in L1, was that before FFP?
Also, reading the story that you kindly provided for me, looks like the breach was accidental hence the small fine due to it being a settlement.
Bournemouth made more money from selling players than they spent. They didn't. 12/13 they spent roughly £1.40m and sold £840k, 13/14 they spent roughly £3.65m and sold £0, 14/15 they spent roughly £4.30m and sold roughly £3.30m. Still impressive business though, especially when you consider wher they are now.
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Post by peterparker on Jul 9, 2018 16:11:02 GMT
We"ve done just as well as Bournemouth in the same time frame. Bournemouth were a division above us in League 2, while our "Evolution" has seen us come from The Conference. It took Bournemouth 6 years to get from League 2 to the Premier League. Id hope that we could get to The Championship within 2 years, which would see us go from Conference to Championship in a shorter time frame. Plus Rovers haven't been the biggest spenders in a division, and haven't completely smashed our transfer records every season unlike Bournemouth.Bournemouth did brilliantly in making more money than they spent in getting there though.
You can get promoted from the conference and L2 without spending much money, but the big test is to do it from L1 to the Championship where you really do need a cash injection.
If our evolution has started since the conference then credit must mainly go to the old board who were at the helm for most part of the 2 promotion seasons?
the only way you can credit any evolution to the old board is by them selling up
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jul 9, 2018 16:51:52 GMT
I predict Evolution 0-0 Revolution
With Evolution winning in "extra time".
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Post by Gastafari on Jul 9, 2018 17:03:05 GMT
Bournemouth made more money from selling players than they spent. They didn't. 12/13 they spent roughly £1.40m and sold £840k, 13/14 they spent roughly £3.65m and sold £0, 14/15 they spent roughly £4.30m and sold roughly £3.30m. Still impressive business though, especially when you consider wher they are now. They did. I posted their transfer activity from League 2 to The Chanpionship a while ago. I can't be bothered to sift through the threads. They made a profit in doing so.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 9, 2018 17:12:05 GMT
They didn't. 12/13 they spent roughly £1.40m and sold £840k, 13/14 they spent roughly £3.65m and sold £0, 14/15 they spent roughly £4.30m and sold roughly £3.30m. Still impressive business though, especially when you consider wher they are now. They did. I posted their transfer activity from League 2 to The Chanpionship a while ago. I can't be bothered to sift through the threads. They made a profit in doing so. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/afc-bournemouth/alletransfers/verein/989
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Post by Gastafari on Jul 9, 2018 17:32:30 GMT
Exactly. They made more money from selling players than they did bringing players in getting to The Championship.
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Post by poorblue on Jul 9, 2018 17:37:56 GMT
The last set of accounts (2016/2017) showed a loss of £3,046,563 and a total debt of £8,573,251 which is secured over the stadium. The OP talks of a "long-term" payback on the owners investment, I would think that they'd like it little sooner than that! I am sure they would like it back as soon as possible.
If they want it back soon, I am sure a For Sale sign will be going up at The Mem any day now
Wall Street Journal report Whether a Barclays Premier League club can, during the long run, turn a sustainable profit is a moot point. However, despite the fact that many clubs currently barely make a profit, while others lose money year-on-year, a few businessmen have been able to make a healthy return from their ownership of a club over time. “The idea that these clubs are going to be yielding assets, as in paying a dividend every year, is not the way they work. But from a capital growth point of view they can make sense,” says Deloitte’s Mr. Jones. “To an extent, they are a rare asset, just like a fine art painting, classic car or a collection of fine wines. Their scarcity and desirability gives them intrinsic value for interested purchasers.” Liverpool University’s Dr. Miller concurs. “For the most part, [football clubs] are seen as a trophy asset,” he says. “As long as a football club keeps performing on the pitch at the same level as when you bought it, then it will hold value and likely increase its value. It’s a long-term asset that you hope will appreciate.” team photo Appreciating asset? However, Dr. Miller also says that assuming a football club will always be an ever-appreciating asset can be dangerous. “Football clubs can also be a rapidly depreciating asset. Since Newcastle United moved down from the Premiership to the Championship, Mike Ashley, its owner, hasn’t been able to unload the club even at a vastly reduced price. That just shows the danger of being relegated.” Buying a Championship club — the level below the Barclays Premier League — and going for promotion to the Premier League can also be a strategy for making money out of owning a football club, says Warwick University’s Prof. Grant. “But that club will need a good catchment area that has a fan base that can be expanded, a modern stadium and a team with potential,” he adds. He suggests Cardiff City Football Club may be a suitable candidate. “From the city of Cardiff you can go in all directions for quite some distance without encountering a rival club and you’ve got a big population [of potential supporters].” An illustration of how high the risks of owning a football club, even one in the Barclays Premier League, can be has been demonstrated by Portsmouth FC, which entered the bankruptcy process in February. “The central issue is that only a handful of Premier League clubs have ever consistently made a profit. The recession has exposed that,” says Sean Hamil, an expert on sports financing who lectures at the Department of Management, Birkbeck College, University of London. Seeking to sell “There might be a point where the revenues mature, the music stops and you haven’t got a chair to sit on, which seems to be the case at Portsmouth. This is one of the reasons why you have high-quality investors in football clubs like John Madejski [Reading FC] and Delia Smith [Norwich City FC] seeking to sell out. The current economic model of English football simply does not allow the vast majority of owners to even break even, never mind make a profit.” Zolfo Cooper’s Mr. Wilson suggests English football could do with a period of stability. “It may not be a bad thing for everyone to take a step back and say let’s try and operate within our means for a while,” he says. “Unfortunately, football doesn’t like stability.”
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Post by socrates on Jul 9, 2018 17:39:59 GMT
I get the Evolution stance but what would happen if it was a Revolution they chose instead. I think that given our stadium situation, the kind of manager we’ve got, the kind of man Wael is and the division that we’re in evolution is a much better way forward than revolution. It’s a Results business and we’ve done alright so far evolving. If we’d spent a fortune on players instead of putting the ground work in first then there’s a very good chance we’d have ended up like Bury. I’m very happy with the way our club is being run.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 9, 2018 18:17:38 GMT
Exactly. They made more money from selling players than they did bringing players in getting to The Championship. I thought we were talking about to the Premier League.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jul 9, 2018 18:24:47 GMT
Yes,lets, their backroom structure was improved several years before they transformed the stadium.
But they had the money person to pay for it, We/Bristol Rovers/Wael/Dwayne Sports etc clearly don't
at the moment
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Post by lpgas on Jul 9, 2018 18:31:44 GMT
So without a new stadium how do you propose we stop losing millions every year?
Produce youth players that get snapped up by top clubs for a token tribunal fee?
Sell best players for way below their market value because we don't offer long contracts?
Look at the teds using their facilities as a fans-zone to watch the England games generating large income, what did we have?
Indeed. Lets look at them lot. Since Lansdown has been in charge, how long did it take him to get these said facilities that you are talking about? Some may say that its been evolution with that lot too as its been quite a few years since his arrival to where they are now with said facilities! Its not as if he just arrived 2 years ago (like Wael) and bang, a redeveloped Trashton appears with facilities to generate extra income with fans zones. You havent even given Wael a chance with your statement. And the question at the end, what did we have? Again, give Wael a chance. Isnt he paying for the clubhouse to be redeveloped which is currently happening NOW, to make it bigger and better on matchdays and no doubt non matchdays too? Again, he has only been here for 2 years. When has he had t he chance to have done this earlier??? Think about it. It remains the same size as no extension has been built. It would have been better to tear it down and rebuild it, but what has happened is no different to Tesco's remodelling one of their stores
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 9, 2018 18:48:52 GMT
I get the Evolution stance but what would happen if it was a Revolution they chose instead. I think that given our stadium situation, the kind of manager we’ve got, the kind of man Wael is and the division that we’re in evolution is a much better way forward than revolution. It’s a Results business and we’ve done alright so far evolving. If we’d spent a fortune on players instead of putting the ground work in first then there’s a very good chance we’d have ended up like Bury. I’m very happy with the way our club is being run. Short term success, possibly, but short lived and when the bubble bursts then we will be worse off. Would you rather the "feast and famine" of not having the wherewithal to go that bit further or wait an extra year or so and sustain that success? I had my house extended a while back, took ages to sort out planning and for the builders to have the foundations ready, it seemed nothing was happening. Then all of a sudden........
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Post by socrates on Jul 9, 2018 18:51:38 GMT
I think that given our stadium situation, the kind of manager we’ve got, the kind of man Wael is and the division that we’re in evolution is a much better way forward than revolution. It’s a Results business and we’ve done alright so far evolving. If we’d spent a fortune on players instead of putting the ground work in first then there’s a very good chance we’d have ended up like Bury. I’m very happy with the way our club is being run. Short term success, possibly, but short lived and when the bubble bursts then we will be worse off. Would you rather the "feast and famine" of not having the wherewithal to go that bit further or wait an extra year or so and sustain that success? I had my house extended a while back, took ages to sort out planning and for the builders to have the foundations ready, it seemed nothing was happening. Then all of a sudden........ Exactly. Under Holloway and Trollop we pushed the boat out a bit in terms of the first team to try and get in to the championship but we had no where near the infrastructure needed to sustain it if we’d got there and after both left it all fell like a pack of cards. This time we’ll be more prepared.
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Post by Gastafari on Jul 9, 2018 18:52:41 GMT
Exactly. They made more money from selling players than they did bringing players in getting to The Championship. I thought we were talking about to the Premier League. They still made a profit. Once you're in The Premier League its a completely different ball game. I don't think there's one club whose made a profit in The Premier League. Bournemouth got from League 2 to The Championship without spending a penny in essence. They sold players on and brought in better players for less money than the ones they sold. When they won The Championship in 2015 they spent £4M and received £3M in sales, so they only really spent £1M. They've spent £110M since getting to The Premier League which you need too, if you're looking to stay there for any amount of time.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 9, 2018 19:42:17 GMT
I thought we were talking about to the Premier League. They still made a profit. Once you're in The Premier League its a completely different ball game. I don't think there's one club whose made a profit in The Premier League. Bournemouth got from League 2 to The Championship without spending a penny in essence. They sold players on and brought in better players for less money than the ones they sold. When they won The Championship in 2015 they spent £4M and received £3M in sales, so they only really spent £1M. They've spent £110M since getting to The Premier League which you need too, if you're looking to stay there for any amount of time. Did they make a profit? I calculated that from 09/10 to 14/15 they spent £11.179m and received £8.056. That obviously isn't including wages. Players like Artur Boruc would have been on big money and Demin apparently sanctioned the Cardiff loanee Kenywyne Jones' £37,000-a-week wages. The loan fee and add ons cost £14,634 for every minute of action he played.
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 9, 2018 20:09:02 GMT
As someone in that local area how did Bournemouth go from having collections to save their existence, to the Championship?
Like I said to Wareham, Demin basically bankrolled the club since 2011. They smashed their transfer record in the first January window spending £800,000 on Matt Tubbs. In League One they were the division’s biggest spenders as they splashed out over a million more than any other club on transfers. In the Championship they signed striker Tokelo Rantie for about £2.5 million and then Callum Wilson for around £3m the following summer. Eddie Howe said: "He has invested in the facilities not just the playing squad but he has put his own money in to take his club into a different era." The 13/14 accounts showed debt of £21.5m and the following season Bournemouth’s £39 million loss was the largest in the Championship for 14/15, ahead of Fulham £27 million, Nottingham Forest £22 million and Blackburn Rovers £17 million.Yes. That’s what I meant about them striking lucky. Those losses are unsustainable but by that time Bournemouth were in PL and the TV income takes care of the losses. They went up so there is no problem, had they not perhaps they wouldn’t have been able to continue to spend at that rate with a small ground and attendances. UTG!
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 9, 2018 20:22:21 GMT
Like I said to Wareham, Demin basically bankrolled the club since 2011. They smashed their transfer record in the first January window spending £800,000 on Matt Tubbs. In League One they were the division’s biggest spenders as they splashed out over a million more than any other club on transfers. In the Championship they signed striker Tokelo Rantie for about £2.5 million and then Callum Wilson for around £3m the following summer. Eddie Howe said: "He has invested in the facilities not just the playing squad but he has put his own money in to take his club into a different era." The 13/14 accounts showed debt of £21.5m and the following season Bournemouth’s £39 million loss was the largest in the Championship for 14/15, ahead of Fulham £27 million, Nottingham Forest £22 million and Blackburn Rovers £17 million.Yes. That’s what I meant about them striking lucky. Those losses are unsustainable but by that time Bournemouth were in PL and the TV income takes care of the losses. They went up so there is no problem, had they not perhaps they wouldn’t have been able to continue to spend at that rate with a small ground and attendances. UTG! If they hadn't gone up I dread to think what would have happened, fortunately for them they did.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 20:31:37 GMT
I get the Evolution stance but what would happen if it was a Revolution they chose instead. I think that given our stadium situation, the kind of manager we’ve got, the kind of man Wael is and the division that we’re in evolution is a much better way forward than revolution. It’s a Results business and we’ve done alright so far evolving. If we’d spent a fortune on players instead of putting the ground work in first then there’s a very good chance we’d have ended up like Bury. I’m very happy with the way our club is being run. That's why i get the Evolution from a team p.o.v., just wish we could have seen a bit of revolution regards a new stadium. But like you i'm happy at present, as long as we keep doing alright and the crowds keep coming. The worry for me though is how long before we're getting crowds drop off because evolution is taking to long. Hopefully a scenario that will not happen.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 9, 2018 20:46:50 GMT
I get the Evolution stance but what would happen if it was a Revolution they chose instead. I think that given our stadium situation, the kind of manager we’ve got, the kind of man Wael is and the division that we’re in evolution is a much better way forward than revolution. It’s a Results business and we’ve done alright so far evolving. If we’d spent a fortune on players instead of putting the ground work in first then there’s a very good chance we’d have ended up like Bury. I’m very happy with the way our club is being run. I can't recall anybody suggesting we spent a fortune on players this summer, all we hope is DC is given a budget comparable to other teams of similar size and we finally make some progress on the stadium/training ground front.
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Post by islandgas on Jul 9, 2018 20:48:27 GMT
Evolution, revolution, call it what you want but at the moment we are spending more than we're earning. Basically we're maxing out all our credit cards and in due course we won't be able to increase the limit. Sooner or later the credit will run out. That is what will happen. If Wael then hasn't got any cash to put in, what happens? I get that we have a great manager and that the squad is much stronger and we have a great back room team in place but in the end it has to be paid for somehow......
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