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Post by contradiction on Jul 9, 2018 10:22:29 GMT
I think people get confused by the whole evolution v revolution thing. Along with getting mixed up with what Investment in the club actually means.
Spending money on the infrastructure of the club - Youth development, Development squad, facilities, (bars), commercial etc is investment. If done correctly, this gives payback longer term, e.g more income generated, possibly home grown players, etc etc. It grows the club. Call this 'Evolution' if you like.
Giving the club money is not the same thing. It doesn't grow the club (long term). It might give you a good season or two, but it is entirely short term unless the above is done. When people say the owners are not investing in the team, they are basically saying that they want the owners to give the club money.
The difference - Evolution/investment makes the club sustainable. Giving the club money does not.
The old board were never able to invest, hence why the club stagnated for years, as when we did have a bit of success we could never cash in.
When people have a dig at the wage budget, I don't think they quite grasp what really they are arguing for.
So what the owners are doing is exactly what they should be. And hopefully, in the background, the stadium is being/will be resolved - and away we go.
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Post by pucklegas on Jul 9, 2018 10:24:30 GMT
Thought this was about two night spots, had many a beer in both 😂🍾🍺
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Post by Okebournegas on Jul 9, 2018 11:13:12 GMT
I agree with this. The owners from day one have always said the club will grow organically, from the bottom up , investing time and money in youth set up, which is exactly what they have done / are doing.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Jul 9, 2018 11:21:37 GMT
I wonder if Bournemouth fans are wishing they were still evolving in L1/L2?
I also wonder how long the current owners will continue to cover the clubs annual debt with no real means of getting any of it back (ie new stadium)
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Post by Okebournegas on Jul 9, 2018 11:30:23 GMT
I wonder if Bournemouth fans are wishing they were still evolving in L1/L2? I also wonder how long the current owners will continue to cover the clubs annual debt with no real means of getting any of it back (ie new stadium) so do you not agree with our owners investing in youth development teams which is also of huge benefit to the future of our football club to produce local talent and to also serve as another revenue stream? They are doing what they set out to from the beginning , I Agee the stadium saga is irritating and needs to be resolved but surely you can also see the positives that are happening at the moment?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 11:39:03 GMT
I think people get confused by the whole evolution v revolution thing. Along with getting mixed up with what Investment in the club actually means. Spending money on the infrastructure of the club - Youth development, Development squad, facilities, (bars), commercial etc is investment. If done correctly, this gives payback longer term, e.g more income generated, possibly home grown players, etc etc. It grows the club. Call this 'Evolution' if you like. Giving the club money is not the same thing. It doesn't grow the club (long term). It might give you a good season or two, but it is entirely short term unless the above is done. When people say the owners are not investing in the team, they are basically saying that they want the owners to give the club money. The difference - Evolution/investment makes the club sustainable. Giving the club money does not. The old board were never able to invest, hence why the club stagnated for years, as when we did have a bit of success we could never cash in. When people have a dig at the wage budget, I don't think they quite grasp what really they are arguing for. So what the owners are doing is exactly what they should be. And hopefully, in the background, the stadium is being/will be resolved - and away we go.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Jul 9, 2018 11:42:43 GMT
I wonder if Bournemouth fans are wishing they were still evolving in L1/L2? I also wonder how long the current owners will continue to cover the clubs annual debt with no real means of getting any of it back (ie new stadium) so do you not agree with our owners investing in youth development teams which is also of huge benefit to the future of our football club to produce local talent and to also serve as another revenue stream? They are doing what they set out to from the beginning , I Agee the stadium saga is irritating and needs to be resolved but surely you can also see the positives that are happening at the moment?
In my eyes a lot of the improvements are low hanging fruit. Of course the development is a good thing as some clubs cant afford/be bothered to run one, but ultimately the owners will be judged on whether they can bring a new stadium or at least a decent training base.
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Post by Jomo on Jul 9, 2018 11:54:28 GMT
Playing a little bit of devil's advocate here, and don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you and the concept of investment for evolution and growth makes a lot of sense, and certainly should bode well for our future as a club. However, one thing I would say is that it will be a great thing to enable us to be sustainable at no higher than League One level. Before anybody gets on my back, I'm not saying that is a bad thing, as it's a lot better to be a sustainable, well run L1 club, than one that is hovering directionless between the bottom 2 leagues.
Any higher up the pyramid and I'm not sure that success would be possible in a truly sustainable fashion. I might be wrong, but I'd like to see figures of any of the top 44 clubs in the last few years, that have maintained success while being run in a sustainable manner. From the outside looking in, it seemed to me that clubs that try not to spend beyond their means, such as Arsenal, Newcastle, and Swansea, just get slammed for "lacking ambition".
It's a sad state of affairs at the top end of the sport, that sensible management of finances can't be truly rewarded.
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Post by Wembley_Gas on Jul 9, 2018 11:55:10 GMT
so do you not agree with our owners investing in youth development teams which is also of huge benefit to the future of our football club to produce local talent and to also serve as another revenue stream? They are doing what they set out to from the beginning , I Agee the stadium saga is irritating and needs to be resolved but surely you can also see the positives that are happening at the moment?
In my eyes a lot of the improvements are low hanging fruit. Of course the development is a good thing as some clubs cant afford/be bothered to run one, but ultimately the owners will be judged on whether they can bring a new stadium or at least a decent training base.
Like Darlington? Maybe they should have been renamed Darlington Successful Owners FC when they went bust then?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 12:00:38 GMT
In my eyes a lot of the improvements are low hanging fruit. Of course the development is a good thing as some clubs cant afford/be bothered to run one, but ultimately the owners will be judged on whether they can bring a new stadium or at least a decent training base.
Like Darlington? Maybe they should have been renamed Darlington Successful Owners FC when they went bust then? Precisely
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Post by lastminutewinner on Jul 9, 2018 12:01:22 GMT
In my eyes a lot of the improvements are low hanging fruit. Of course the development is a good thing as some clubs cant afford/be bothered to run one, but ultimately the owners will be judged on whether they can bring a new stadium or at least a decent training base.
Like Darlington? Maybe they should have been renamed Darlington Successful Owners FC when they went bust then?
Do you have many other examples similar to this?
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nsgas
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Post by nsgas on Jul 9, 2018 12:03:37 GMT
The last set of accounts (2016/2017) showed a loss of £3,046,563 and a total debt of £8,573,251 which is secured over the stadium. The OP talks of a "long-term" payback on the owners investment, I would think that they'd like it little sooner than that!
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Post by cj on Jul 9, 2018 12:05:05 GMT
What a brilliant thread and well constructed, informative and hits the nail right bang on the head. Also, real discussion and debate by those who may disagree with the OP can be made, with the potential to be an on-going thread lasting ages.
What annoys me though is that this thread is over an hour old, had over 460 views but only received just 11 comments (mine being the 12th as I type this). This thread, although an hour into its life, deserves more attention for the reasons stated in my first paragraph. Yet threads that are totally made up BS, can get 7 pages in its first hour due to everyone taking the bait!
Anyway, rant over. As you all were!
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Post by baggins on Jul 9, 2018 12:11:05 GMT
The last set of accounts (2016/2017) showed a loss of £3,046,563 and a total debt of £8,573,251 which is secured over the stadium. The OP talks of a "long-term" payback on the owners investment, I would think that they'd like it little sooner than that! Isn't that up to them?
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Post by Big Jock on Jul 9, 2018 12:12:06 GMT
What a brilliant thread and well constructed, informative and hits the nail right bang on the head. Also, real discussion and debate by those who may disagree with the OP can be made, with the potential to be an on-going thread lasting ages. What annoys me though is that this thread is over an hour old, had over 460 views but only received just 11 comments (mine being the 12th as I type this). This thread, although an hour into its life, deserves more attention for the reasons stated in my first paragraph. Yet threads that are totally made up BS, can get 7 pages in its first hour due to everyone taking the bait! Anyway, rant over. As you all were! Gotta laugh at yer irony there pal, you start very positive sayin great positive thread an immediately turn it into a post about th negative type threads that you complain get more attention ffs!
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 9, 2018 12:16:29 GMT
The last set of accounts (2016/2017) showed a loss of £3,046,563 and a total debt of £8,573,251 which is secured over the stadium. The OP talks of a "long-term" payback on the owners investment, I would think that they'd like it little sooner than that! They are bankers. As long as the debt is secured then there will be no rush to pay it back, in financial terms they would be better off sitting on the debt and just charging interest. When, how and at what rate or rates, is up to them.
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Post by peterparker on Jul 9, 2018 12:20:15 GMT
The last set of accounts (2016/2017) showed a loss of £3,046,563 and a total debt of £8,573,251 which is secured over the stadium. The OP talks of a "long-term" payback on the owners investment, I would think that they'd like it little sooner than that! I am sure they would like it back as soon as possible.
If they want it back soon, I am sure a For Sale sign will be going up at The Mem any day now
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nsgas
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Post by nsgas on Jul 9, 2018 12:24:55 GMT
The last set of accounts (2016/2017) showed a loss of £3,046,563 and a total debt of £8,573,251 which is secured over the stadium. The OP talks of a "long-term" payback on the owners investment, I would think that they'd like it little sooner than that! They are bankers. As long as the debt is secured then there will be no rush to pay it back, in financial terms they would be better off sitting on the debt and just charging interest. When, how and at what rate or rates, is up to them. The debt is probably over £10m by now, it won't be long until it exceeds the value of the Stadium. The more interest they charge the quicker it will do so. If they can't get the club to make a profit then they'll only have one guaranteed way to get their investment back (should they want to).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 12:27:02 GMT
I get the Evolution stance but what would happen if it was a Revolution they chose instead.
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Post by cj on Jul 9, 2018 12:28:00 GMT
so do you not agree with our owners investing in youth development teams which is also of huge benefit to the future of our football club to produce local talent and to also serve as another revenue stream? They are doing what they set out to from the beginning , I Agee the stadium saga is irritating and needs to be resolved but surely you can also see the positives that are happening at the moment?
In my eyes a lot of the improvements are low hanging fruit. Of course the development is a good thing as some clubs cant afford/be bothered to run one, but ultimately the owners will be judged on whether they can bring a new stadium or at least a decent training base.
Well maybe I am in the minority with this but I wont be judging the owners on whether they can bring a new stadium or training base. I am judging them on what they said they will do from the very beginning, which is evolution not revolution. They always said they will sort out the youth development. Wael is very keen with this due to his role in Jordan, which he was (or still is) involved in youth development. He knows how important it is. I think our youths (from what I have read on them) have been impressive. We now got a development team to continue to the development of our young ones and they got good coaches too. Wael also wanted to restructure everything from the bottom up. I have never known Rovers to have so many coaches in all levels and other staff helping/assisting DC. Remember, Wael hasnt been at the club that long when comparing how long it takes to restructure EVERYTHING at the club, doing things in the right way first time. Evolution is also a slow movement so it is not all a quick fix. Wael came in to the club after the UWE plans had already been made. Obviously UWE didnt work out after that. Wael wants what is best for this club as he is into investments. If he felt UWE stadium wasnt a good investment then I trust him as he knows what he is doing in that area. Same with a training ground. The fact that DC is still very much motivated at our club tells me that he is happy with Wael's ambitions for our club.
I only criticism from me is the lack of communication from Wael and the club. But then again, would you rather have a weekly/fortnightly update like Higgs use to do, even when there was nothing to update us on? I am sure we will be updated when there is actually something to update us on.
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