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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 1, 2019 9:12:22 GMT
That's magical thinking nonsense. It doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny. You get a random f**king club and you like it. Full stop. Same as Man City, same a Bournemouth, same as Stockport fans. Unless you're a glory-hunting lady garden and then you switch to a more successful club. What's your take on the window passed? Stronger or weaker than before? Do you think you can judge anything by the business that was done and when it was done? or are fans questioning it and raising concerns still just pointless moaning to dismiss? Is evolution being delivered? We are stronger than we were.
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 1, 2019 9:13:52 GMT
So true. Thank goodness for a dose of common sense and reality. This moment in time doesn’t even rate in the top twenty “worst moments in Rovers History”. Blimey, if people think it does where the heck were they in the 2000s and in 2011-14? And you can add the blow up in 2000 from which it took us many years to recover, if we ever have. Add leaving Eastville, losing at home to Workington in April ‘67 when we had a chance of going up, losing to Wycombe to consign us to the bottom division for the first time, it’s a very long list. Yesterday I thought was a better and that we ended it stronger than we began the day but I guess it’s all about opinions. UTG! The difference is, during those events we knew no better and our expectations had not been raised (rightly or wrongly) by the new owners, the media and to a certain extent ourselves I understand that but why were our expectations raised? You’re right about or being raised but tbf to the owners they’ve never said they were loaded or whatever, it was all evolution not revolution. Their comment about not needing help to finance the UWE did give us all hope though and I think that was their biggest mistake. And through the 2000s we probably did know better, we had Rushden and D and Boston beating us at the Mem and nearly going out of the league early on. I’m more sad that of the 4 main signings in the past four windows, Nichols, Bennett, Payne and Mensah, 3 of them have gone already. We just haven’t replaced our “stars” with anyth8ng better. The recruitment has been poor and the owners are copping the blame for it and I’m not sure that is fair. Regard8ng their communication I have little sympathy for them, they are poor. (But I know that wasn’t your point.) UTG!
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 1, 2019 9:17:24 GMT
What's your take on the window passed? Stronger or weaker than before? Do you think you can judge anything by the business that was done and when it was done? or are fans questioning it and raising concerns still just pointless moaning to dismiss? Is evolution being delivered? We are stronger than we were. Yeah, if you're just talking starters we've got rid of the unpopular Bennett and replaced him with Ogogo, and got rid of the very unpopular Payne and replaced him with JCH. I feel like Ogogo has to lack something very significant from his game in order to be worse than Bennett for us at this time, and JCH will need to kill a few grandmothers to be thought of as worse than Payne.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Feb 1, 2019 9:24:11 GMT
What's your take on the window passed? Stronger or weaker than before? Do you think you can judge anything by the business that was done and when it was done? or are fans questioning it and raising concerns still just pointless moaning to dismiss? Is evolution being delivered? We are stronger than we were. right ok debateable but fine. Have we strengthened as well as our relegation rivals?
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Post by gasforeverman on Feb 1, 2019 9:31:29 GMT
We havent been sold down the river. We never reached it. Weve been up the creek and now were without a paddle
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 9:33:08 GMT
We are stronger than we were. right ok debateable but fine. Have we strengthened as well as our relegation rivals? Only time will tell
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Post by badengas on Feb 1, 2019 9:33:48 GMT
Evolution whilist based at a stadium which is barely fit for purpose is laughable. So if were not in the evolution process at this time What are we in? The real world ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 9:39:10 GMT
Evolution whilist based at a stadium which is barely fit for purpose is laughable. So if were not in the evolution process at this time What are we in? We are in decline.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 9:45:00 GMT
That's magical thinking nonsense. It doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny. You get a random f**king club and you like it. Full stop. Same as Man City, same a Bournemouth, same as Stockport fans. Unless you're a glory-hunting lady garden and then you switch to a more successful club. What's your take on the window passed? Stronger or weaker than before? Do you think you can judge anything by the business that was done and when it was done? or are fans questioning it and raising concerns still just pointless moaning to dismiss? Is evolution being delivered? How is this evolution? When they arrived we had a stadium deal and were heading for promotion, now we have no deal and are heading for relegation-- where's the effing evolution in that?! It's regression plain and simple.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Feb 1, 2019 10:04:18 GMT
What's your take on the window passed? Stronger or weaker than before? Do you think you can judge anything by the business that was done and when it was done? or are fans questioning it and raising concerns still just pointless moaning to dismiss? Is evolution being delivered? Well, istm GC is changing the feel of the squad and getting rid of the low-intensity (for want of a better description) players and going for a more direct approach. Arguably he's reversing the later changes DC made, who turned a half-decent semi-direct team with a bit of guts into a keep-ball indirect team who lacked a cutting edge. I don't imagine JCH was our first (or second) choice target and the jury is obviously out but it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out the real significant signing of the window is Ogogo. But it was never a surprise that a lot of the business was gonna be done at the last minute. I'm amazed anyone thought it might not be (hint: they didn't really). We've definitely got enough to stay up, but whether that will happen in a season which seems determined to kick us in the nuts remains to be seen. In any case, it's not really whether the moaning is pointless, it's whether the moaners can just make one decent post summarising their concerns and opening the door for discussion which might be a decent source of debate, or whether they have to bombard every single thread for weeks on end with the same repetitive, unconstructive, whining over and over again every thread ten times a thread over and over just whining and whining again and again about the same, often imaginary, often contradictory, stuff over and over, etc. I'm not sure we have enough to stay up. I think if we had been the only team making changes we may well have had enough but in comparison to teams around us I don't think we can claim as much strengthening as they can. Time will tell as harleygas says. I don't think you can claim the moaners (your label not mine) are not making decent posts summarising their concerns. Your obvious bias may be clouding your judgement there because that's not what I am reading. Perhaps its just not the kind of post you like on your forum. That doesn't mean that many don't hold deep rooted concerns that they are expressing which, as far as I can tell, is the point of a forum right? Personally I find it laughable that you would seek to dismiss and stifle the opinions of other fans in the name of preferring to be constructive, whatever you mean by that? I mean, we aren't in a think tank or workshop on the board of Bristol Rovers are we? We are on a fans internet forum. I used to hold similar opinions to you but over time that has changed. Perhaps for some real insight you should ask more questions instead of telling everyone to shut up.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 1, 2019 10:13:22 GMT
Well, istm GC is changing the feel of the squad and getting rid of the low-intensity (for want of a better description) players and going for a more direct approach. Arguably he's reversing the later changes DC made, who turned a half-decent semi-direct team with a bit of guts into a keep-ball indirect team who lacked a cutting edge. I don't imagine JCH was our first (or second) choice target and the jury is obviously out but it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out the real significant signing of the window is Ogogo. But it was never a surprise that a lot of the business was gonna be done at the last minute. I'm amazed anyone thought it might not be (hint: they didn't really). We've definitely got enough to stay up, but whether that will happen in a season which seems determined to kick us in the nuts remains to be seen. In any case, it's not really whether the moaning is pointless, it's whether the moaners can just make one decent post summarising their concerns and opening the door for discussion which might be a decent source of debate, or whether they have to bombard every single thread for weeks on end with the same repetitive, unconstructive, whining over and over again every thread ten times a thread over and over just whining and whining again and again about the same, often imaginary, often contradictory, stuff over and over, etc. I'm not sure we have enough to stay up. I think if we had been the only team making changes we may well have had enough but in comparison to teams around us I don't think we can claim as much strengthening as they can. Time will tell as harleygas says. I don't think you can claim the moaners (your label not mine) are not making decent posts summarising their concerns. Your obvious bias may be clouding your judgement there because that's not what I am reading. Perhaps its just not the kind of post you like on your forum. That doesn't mean that many don't hold deep rooted concerns that they are expressing which, as far as I can tell, is the point of a forum right? Personally I find it laughable that you would seek to dismiss and stifle the opinions of other fans in the name of preferring to be constructive, whatever you mean by that? I mean, we aren't in a think tank or workshop on the board of Bristol Rovers are we? We are on a fans internet forum. I used to hold similar opinions to you but over time that has changed. Perhaps for some real insight you should ask more questions instead of telling everyone to shut up. I realise people are holding deep rooted concerns, but often they seem to express them as something along the lines of 'f**k off you fake camel lady gardens.' The idea that I'm stifling debate is a bit weird. I think you're confusing disagreeing or refuting with stifling, which is pretty much the opposite. No more than you are seeking to stifle debate by coming up with stuff like 'Your obvious bias may be clouding your judgement.' If one's opinion doesn't hold up to a few simple questions or disagreement then that's a good thing to find out, right? That's what debate is for. In any case, I have asked a load of questions, but often they don't get much of a hearing because many people would rather whine than debate what they're whining. For example, someone says 'we have to slash our budget by £1M. I say 'where did you get that from? (simple question, right?). They don't reply, then a few hours later say the same thing on a different thread, and then the next day, and the next day, and the next day, etc. No debate, just something that doesn't stand up to a simple question, yet just keeps getting repeated. The idea that we shouldn't even try to debate stuff sensibly coz we're not the Rovers' board is a bit weird, too.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Feb 1, 2019 10:23:57 GMT
I'm not sure we have enough to stay up. I think if we had been the only team making changes we may well have had enough but in comparison to teams around us I don't think we can claim as much strengthening as they can. Time will tell as harleygas says. I don't think you can claim the moaners (your label not mine) are not making decent posts summarising their concerns. Your obvious bias may be clouding your judgement there because that's not what I am reading. Perhaps its just not the kind of post you like on your forum. That doesn't mean that many don't hold deep rooted concerns that they are expressing which, as far as I can tell, is the point of a forum right? Personally I find it laughable that you would seek to dismiss and stifle the opinions of other fans in the name of preferring to be constructive, whatever you mean by that? I mean, we aren't in a think tank or workshop on the board of Bristol Rovers are we? We are on a fans internet forum. I used to hold similar opinions to you but over time that has changed. Perhaps for some real insight you should ask more questions instead of telling everyone to shut up. I realise people are holding deep rooted concerns, but often they seem to express them as something along the lines of 'f**k off you fake camel lady gardens.' The idea that I'm stifling debate is a bit weird. I think you're confusing disagreeing or refuting with stifling, which is pretty much the opposite. No more than you are seeking to stifle debate by coming up with stuff like 'Your obvious bias may be clouding your judgement.' If one's opinion doesn't hold up to a few simple questions or disagreement then that's a good thing to find out, right? That's what debate is for. In any case, I have asked a load of questions, but often they don't get much of a hearing because many people would rather whine than debate what they're whining. For example, someone says 'we have to slash our budget by £1M. I say 'where did you get that from? (simple question, right?). They don't reply, then a few hours later say the same thing on a different thread, and then the next day, and the next day, and the next day, etc. No debate, just something that doesn't stand up to a simple question, yet just keeps getting repeated. hard to disagree with some of that but I think it only applies to a portion of the posts from your 'moaners'. Plenty of others that decent and relevant and are getting the same treatment. I don't seem to remember the vast majority mentioning camels so a bit of a straw man argument. Nice try on twisting my words but didn't pull it off this time I'm afraid. Your obvious bias is clouding your judgement in to writing off a lot of concern as baseless moaning. I'm asking you to engage actually so not the same thing (but you knew that anyway). Some of the facts are pretty ridiculous and likely baseless but again, most don't use them, preferring instead to use what they can observe. You write so eloquently and clearly enjoy wrestling with semantics. Oh and on your edit - that is EXACTLY what you have been doing. You do love to try and twist things. Every time a straw man argument.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 1, 2019 10:29:39 GMT
I realise people are holding deep rooted concerns, but often they seem to express them as something along the lines of 'f**k off you fake camel lady gardens.' The idea that I'm stifling debate is a bit weird. I think you're confusing disagreeing or refuting with stifling, which is pretty much the opposite. No more than you are seeking to stifle debate by coming up with stuff like 'Your obvious bias may be clouding your judgement.' If one's opinion doesn't hold up to a few simple questions or disagreement then that's a good thing to find out, right? That's what debate is for. In any case, I have asked a load of questions, but often they don't get much of a hearing because many people would rather whine than debate what they're whining. For example, someone says 'we have to slash our budget by £1M. I say 'where did you get that from? (simple question, right?). They don't reply, then a few hours later say the same thing on a different thread, and then the next day, and the next day, and the next day, etc. No debate, just something that doesn't stand up to a simple question, yet just keeps getting repeated. hard to disagree with some of that but I think it only applies to a portion of the posts from your 'moaners'. Plenty of others that decent and relevant and are getting the same treatment. I don't seem to remember the vast majority mentioning camels so a bit of a straw man argument. Nice try on twisting my words but didn't pull it off this time I'm afraid. Your obvious bias is clouding your judgement in to writing off a lot of concern as baseless moaning. I'm asking you to engage actually so not the same thing (but you knew that anyway). Some of the facts are pretty ridiculous and likely baseless but again, most don't use them, preferring instead to use what they can observe. You write so eloquently and clearly enjoy wrestling with semantics. Oh and on your edit - that is EXACTLY what you have been doing. You do love to try and twist things. Every time a straw man argument. Gosh, I'm shocked that you should play the man and not the ball again. Every time. Yellow card. Persistent, over there, there, there and over there.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Feb 1, 2019 10:32:38 GMT
hard to disagree with some of that but I think it only applies to a portion of the posts from your 'moaners'. Plenty of others that decent and relevant and are getting the same treatment. I don't seem to remember the vast majority mentioning camels so a bit of a straw man argument. Nice try on twisting my words but didn't pull it off this time I'm afraid. Your obvious bias is clouding your judgement in to writing off a lot of concern as baseless moaning. I'm asking you to engage actually so not the same thing (but you knew that anyway). Some of the facts are pretty ridiculous and likely baseless but again, most don't use them, preferring instead to use what they can observe. You write so eloquently and clearly enjoy wrestling with semantics. Oh and on your edit - that is EXACTLY what you have been doing. You do love to try and twist things. Every time a straw man argument. Gosh, I'm shocked that you should play the man and not the ball again. Every time. Yellow card. Persistent, over there, there, there and over there. I'm criticising your argument. Where I mentioned you personally it was complimentary. If by yellow card you mean to tell me I am being warned moderator to user then that would be a shame but it might just go to prove my point.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 10:43:28 GMT
Am I the only person reading this thread and others scratching their head in total bewilderment?
The sense of entitlement and expectation sweeping around our fan base is genuinely baffling. We've gone and signed an effective League One striker and the captain of the side that finished third last season, yet it seems that's nowhere near enough for some. We're losing millions a year therefore our ability to compete with the L1 big guns will be limited.
I get the frustrations at WAQ and co given the stadium situation and clearly huge PR own goals were made by them. However the discontent and attitude towards them is well OTT in my eyes and quite distasteful at times. Dare I say there's some racial undertones involved as they aren't local.
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Post by mjhgas on Feb 1, 2019 10:43:36 GMT
I'd rather see us break even and play in L2. You'll get your wish about the league two bit sooner or later. It's true what they say, Rovers fans in general get the club they deserve! We get a club that is sustainable. I wouldnt build a new ground until we sell out the current one every week. Where is the money coming from?
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 1, 2019 10:44:19 GMT
Gosh, I'm shocked that you should play the man and not the ball again. Every time. Yellow card. Persistent, over there, there, there and over there. I'm criticising your argument. Where I mentioned you personally it was complimentary. If by yellow card you mean to tell me I am being warned moderator to user then that would be a shame but it might just go to prove my point. No, I wasn't warning you as a moderator; I was making a stupid joke. In any case, the idea I was intentionally twisting what you're saying is bullshit.
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Post by thegasman on Feb 1, 2019 10:44:47 GMT
The difference is, during those events we knew no better and our expectations had not been raised (rightly or wrongly) by the new owners, the media and to a certain extent ourselves I understand that but why were our expectations raised? You’re right about or being raised but tbf to the owners they’ve never said they were loaded or whatever, it was all evolution not revolution. Their comment about not needing help to finance the UWE did give us all hope though and I think that was their biggest mistake. And through the 2000s we probably did know better, we had Rushden and D and Boston beating us at the Mem and nearly going out of the league early on. I’m more sad that of the 4 main signings in the past four windows, Nichols, Bennett, Payne and Mensah, 3 of them have gone already. We just haven’t replaced our “stars” with anyth8ng better. The recruitment has been poor and the owners are copping the blame for it and I’m not sure that is fair. Regard8ng their communication I have little sympathy for them, they are poor. (But I know that wasn’t your point.) UTG! Mmmmhhh. In all truthfulness, that has been borne out to be true. No build: means no finance needed. Perhaps its us, not being able to interpret banking speak accurately.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Feb 1, 2019 10:45:30 GMT
You'll get your wish about the league two bit sooner or later. It's true what they say, Rovers fans in general get the club they deserve! We get a club that is sustainable. I wouldnt build a new ground until we sell out the current one every week. Where is the money coming from? What are you talking about sustainable? Since when has the club been sustainable under this regime? You are talking nonsense.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Feb 1, 2019 10:45:36 GMT
I'm criticising your argument. Where I mentioned you personally it was complimentary. If by yellow card you mean to tell me I am being warned moderator to user then that would be a shame but it might just go to prove my point. No, I wasn't warning you as a moderator; I was making a stupid joke. In any case, the idea I was intentionally twisting what you're saying is bullshit. haha of course it is
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