pirate
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Post by pirate on Mar 8, 2019 4:24:55 GMT
You can tell that most people just want massive centre-backs on here,ability is simply not required. Sergio ramos,daniel passarella,bobby moore,carlos puyol and fabio cannavaro would not get a look in on this forum. I still maintain that ability is much more important than height and any new signings or offers of contracts for players at the club should be firmly based on that. The biggest centre-backs i ever saw were in the conference season playing against us. Four out of the top five clubs in League One all have at least one massive centre back playing for them. 6ft 5in Sonny Bradley at Luton, 6ft 4in Ethan Pinnock and 6ft 3in Liam Lindsay at Barnsley, 6ft 5in Christian Burgess at Pompey and 6ft 5in Naby Sarr/6ft 3in Patrick Bauer at Charlton. Ability is obviously important, but there is no reason why you can't combine ability and height as is proven by the club's and players I've mentioned, but at the same time height isn't everything as you have shown with the players in your post.
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 8, 2019 7:44:47 GMT
Beckles is 6”5 and built like a brick 💩 house who wins everything in the air and can pass to feet. Name a defender at our club like that. Being built like a brick..... doesn’t necessarily make him good. Winning everything in the air and passing to feet does make a player good and according to the Shrewsbury forum he can’t do that very well. Not a go at you 1981 but there seems to be an obsession that our CHs have to be very big and very strong. One thing I do know though is that we are 21st in League 1 due to our midfield and strikers and is definitely not the fault of our defence this season. Have never understood why so many don’t like TC when he has improved our defence. But I know it’s all about opinions. UTG! Fair shout Wareham, and good to have a discussion 👍🏻 I get to see a fair bit of football across our league as well as Rovers as my job takes me all over the UK and rather than sit in a hotel room on a night time, I’ll go and watch a game of football. I’m nowhere near as knowledgable as Pirate here (who has also highlighted some very good centre halves) but I like to think I notice a good player in a side, even if they are fighting around the bottom 4. I’ve seen Beckles play 4 times this year. In each game I would say he has been commanding, good in the air, doesn’t get bullied off the ball, competent to know when to kick it into Row Z or when to distribute it. He can also pick the ball up and carry it forward and lay the pass. He has also got a fair turn of pace. He is also left footed. Alongside Lockyer I think they would make a great pairing. I was also replying about Beckles being a bully, which he isn’t, he’s just incredibly strong meaning he doesn’t get intimidated or outmuscled easily.
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 8, 2019 8:15:50 GMT
You can tell that most people just want massive centre-backs on here,ability is simply not required. Sergio ramos,daniel passarella,bobby moore,carlos puyol and fabio cannavaro would not get a look in on this forum. I still maintain that ability is much more important than height and any new signings or offers of contracts for players at the club should be firmly based on that. The biggest centre-backs i ever saw were in the conference season playing against us. Pointless referring to players playing at international level when we're a lower Div 1 side, I bet Griggs wouldn't have turned Steve Elliot like he did Locks or Craig, plus Elliot would have out the ball out of the ground before they scored, he'd have probably also taken one or both chances Locks spurned at the other end.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 8:36:40 GMT
You can tell that most people just want massive centre-backs on here,ability is simply not required. Sergio ramos,daniel passarella,bobby moore,carlos puyol and fabio cannavaro would not get a look in on this forum. I still maintain that ability is much more important than height and any new signings or offers of contracts for players at the club should be firmly based on that. The biggest centre-backs i ever saw were in the conference season playing against us. Pointless referring to players playing at international level when we're a lower Div 1 side, I bet Griggs wouldn't have turned Steve Elliot like he did Locks or Craig, plus Elliot would have out the ball out of the ground before they scored, he'd have probably also taken one or both chances Locks spurned at the other end. Well said Topper, spot on. I would also add the internationals mentioned are marking world class players as well, no one is telling me it’s all relative. At Div1 level you don’t see that many brilliant strikers and look at the gulf to the premiership which Taylor is miles off and can’t get a game Champ. We see players like Ryan Taylor at Plymouth batter and man handle Locker because he’s not tall enough as last season. I was at Walsall Boxing Day and Andy Cook destroyed Lockyer and Craig in the air all game again. I am also with Steve (Gashead81) re Beccles, is take him. At this level it’s proven height and aggression are needed over ability where as in the Champ they are even now playing from the back. When City went up they had Aden Flint at 6ft 5. Lockyer will never ever make it Championship week in week out. As some of you know I’m personal friends with Lee Johnson. Lee’s scouts watched Tom, they reported back he’s average and gets dragged out of position too easy. I will keep saying it, a Championship side like Swansea could have got Tom in January for £200k and he never went, we all know the reason.
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Post by markczgas on Mar 8, 2019 9:12:42 GMT
Pointless referring to players playing at international level when we're a lower Div 1 side, I bet Griggs wouldn't have turned Steve Elliot like he did Locks or Craig, plus Elliot would have out the ball out of the ground before they scored, he'd have probably also taken one or both chances Locks spurned at the other end. Well said Topper, spot on. I would also add the internationals mentioned are marking world class players as well, no one is telling me it’s all relative. At Div1 level you don’t see that many brilliant strikers and look at the gulf to the premiership which Taylor is miles off and can’t get a game Champ. We see players like Ryan Taylor at Plymouth batter and man handle Locker because he’s not tall enough as last season. I was at Walsall Boxing Day and Andy Cook destroyed Lockyer and Craig in the air all game again. I am also with Steve (Gashead81) re Beccles, is take him. At this level it’s proven height and aggression are needed over ability where as in the Champ they are even now playing from the back. When City went up they had Aden Flint at 6ft 5. Lockyer will never ever make it Championship week in week out. As some of you know I’m personal friends with Lee Johnson. Lee’s scouts watched Tom, they reported back he’s average and gets dragged out of position too easy. I will keep saying it, a Championship side like Swansea could have got Tom in January for £200k and he never went, we all know the reason.I don't. What was the reason ?
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Post by Jomo on Mar 8, 2019 9:19:53 GMT
Pointless referring to players playing at international level when we're a lower Div 1 side, I bet Griggs wouldn't have turned Steve Elliot like he did Locks or Craig, plus Elliot would have out the ball out of the ground before they scored, he'd have probably also taken one or both chances Locks spurned at the other end. Well said Topper, spot on. I would also add the internationals mentioned are marking world class players as well, no one is telling me it’s all relative. At Div1 level you don’t see that many brilliant strikers and look at the gulf to the premiership which Taylor is miles off and can’t get a game Champ. We see players like Ryan Taylor at Plymouth batter and man handle Locker because he’s not tall enough as last season. I was at Walsall Boxing Day and Andy Cook destroyed Lockyer and Craig in the air all game again. I am also with Steve (Gashead81) re Beccles, is take him. At this level it’s proven height and aggression are needed over ability where as in the Champ they are even now playing from the back. When City went up they had Aden Flint at 6ft 5. Lockyer will never ever make it Championship week in week out. As some of you know I’m personal friends with Lee Johnson. Lee’s scouts watched Tom, they reported back he’s average and gets dragged out of position too easy. I will keep saying it, a Championship side like Swansea could have got Tom in January for £200k and he never went, we all know the reason. I was wondering how long it would be for the Johnson name-drop 😉 I agree though Beckles is a great shout but I want to see how Rollin and Kilgour can do for us. Give them a chance, they may end up being superb and earn us a decent transfer fee or two.
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 8, 2019 9:23:02 GMT
Being built like a brick..... doesn’t necessarily make him good. Winning everything in the air and passing to feet does make a player good and according to the Shrewsbury forum he can’t do that very well. Not a go at you 1981 but there seems to be an obsession that our CHs have to be very big and very strong. One thing I do know though is that we are 21st in League 1 due to our midfield and strikers and is definitely not the fault of our defence this season. Have never understood why so many don’t like TC when he has improved our defence. But I know it’s all about opinions. UTG! Fair shout Wareham, and good to have a discussion 👍🏻 I get to see a fair bit of football across our league as well as Rovers as my job takes me all over the UK and rather than sit in a hotel room on a night time, I’ll go and watch a game of football. I’m nowhere near as knowledgable as Pirate here (who has also highlighted some very good centre halves) but I like to think I notice a good player in a side, even if they are fighting around the bottom 4. I’ve seen Beckles play 4 times this year. In each game I would say he has been commanding, good in the air, doesn’t get bullied off the ball, competent to know when to kick it into Row Z or when to distribute it. He can also pick the ball up and carry it forward and lay the pass. He has also got a fair turn of pace. He is also left footed. Alongside Lockyer I think they would make a great pairing. I was also replying about Beckles being a bully, which he isn’t, he’s just incredibly strong meaning he doesn’t get intimidated or outmuscled easily. Watching that much football good shout. If you’ve seen Beckles that’s more than I have! I was referring to their forum which is never the most balanced view. 😉 Being a season ticket at Bournemouth means I see far more PL than League 1 and have only seen us about 10 times this season and on these occasions Craig and TL have always played ok. A big CH with all the attributes of a good defender is great but many hav ethe turning circle of the Titanic. Fwiw the best defender I’ve seen this season is Nathan Ake, not the biggest but medium sized and a great tackler with a brain to match. I bet Chelsea wished they’d kept him. All about opinions and it sgood to have a sensible discussion.😀 UTG!
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 8, 2019 9:27:32 GMT
You can tell that most people just want massive centre-backs on here,ability is simply not required. Sergio ramos,daniel passarella,bobby moore,carlos puyol and fabio cannavaro would not get a look in on this forum. I still maintain that ability is much more important than height and any new signings or offers of contracts for players at the club should be firmly based on that. The biggest centre-backs i ever saw were in the conference season playing against us. Pointless referring to players playing at international level when we're a lower Div 1 side, I bet Griggs wouldn't have turned Steve Elliot like he did Locks or Craig, plus Elliot would have out the ball out of the ground before they scored, he'd have probably also taken one or both chances Locks spurned at the other end. Agree Topper. Elliott was right up there with Tilson in terms of the best CH we have ever had and IMO, was let go far too early. Craig got spun by Grigg 3 times on Tuesday night and was so slow to react to Bonhams save for the second goal. Grigg is excellent for this level, but in the championship he's never quite had the same scoring ratio. That tells you all you need to know about the opponent that Craig couldn't handle and that he is not a top half L1 centre back anymore. Locks is a good L1 CH who's weaknesses are exposed even more by Craig. Locks needs a good commanding CH next to him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 10:29:07 GMT
I don’t think Locks will stay as he’s our highest paid player in the club, I think for budget and value for money we can do better. His contract was loaded with bonus’s and a change once he became a international, he’s got a wise agent. Jermaine Easter. Do you have evidence that lockyer is our top earner? Or is it just hearsay? Please direct us to the information regarding lockyers salary. Thanks in advance. Yeah I will just post my proof. I’m not in the business of making things up to look good or make friends. His agent is Easter, he’s our highest paid player and If you don’t want to believe me I don’t blame you, you don’t know me and I could be making this up, I am not though.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 10:43:58 GMT
Well said Topper, spot on. I would also add the internationals mentioned are marking world class players as well, no one is telling me it’s all relative. At Div1 level you don’t see that many brilliant strikers and look at the gulf to the premiership which Taylor is miles off and can’t get a game Champ. We see players like Ryan Taylor at Plymouth batter and man handle Locker because he’s not tall enough as last season. I was at Walsall Boxing Day and Andy Cook destroyed Lockyer and Craig in the air all game again. I am also with Steve (Gashead81) re Beccles, is take him. At this level it’s proven height and aggression are needed over ability where as in the Champ they are even now playing from the back. When City went up they had Aden Flint at 6ft 5. Lockyer will never ever make it Championship week in week out. As some of you know I’m personal friends with Lee Johnson. Lee’s scouts watched Tom, they reported back he’s average and gets dragged out of position too easy. I will keep saying it, a Championship side like Swansea could have got Tom in January for £200k and he never went, we all know the reason.I don't. What was the reason ? Mark don’t you think a premiership or championship club would spend or gamble £200k on a fit 25 year international if they wanted him? Just like City and PNE took advantage of the Bosman coming up and got players on the cheap. I think we’d all be naive to think Swansea hadnt sent a scout to watch a Wales international knowing they could get him for £200k. The scouts have been to watch him, of course they have.
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Post by neilv93 on Mar 8, 2019 10:52:08 GMT
I don't. What was the reason ? Mark don’t you think a premiership or championship club would spend or gamble £200k on a fit 25 year international if they wanted him? Just like City and PNE took advantage of the Bosman coming up and got players on the cheap. I think we’d all be naive to think Swansea hadnt sent a scout to watch a Wales international knowing they could get him for £200k. The scouts have been to watch him, of course they have. Out of interest, where is this £200k number coming from? Also, not disagreeing that he's suspect to getting dragged out of position and man-handled by opposing lump strikers but he's a good player and clearly valued highly enough to be a full Wales international alongside the likes of Spurs' Ben Davies so there's clearly SOME talent in there. I do find it interesting that he's not left yet though... Also also, he's 24. I promise you, roady, my knickers are not in a twist today
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 11:02:23 GMT
Mark don’t you think a premiership or championship club would spend or gamble £200k on a fit 25 year international if they wanted him? Just like City and PNE took advantage of the Bosman coming up and got players on the cheap. I think we’d all be naive to think Swansea hadnt sent a scout to watch a Wales international knowing they could get him for £200k. The scouts have been to watch him, of course they have. Out of interest, where is this £200k number coming from? Also, not disagreeing that he's suspect to getting dragged out of position and man-handled by opposing lump strikers but he's a good player and clearly valued highly enough to be a full Wales international alongside the likes of Spurs' Ben Davies so there's clearly SOME talent in there. I do find it interesting that he's not left yet though... Also also, he's 24. I promise you, roady, my knickers are not in a twist today I changed my pants today as well Neil! £200k is just a figure I’ve made up, I think you have a bargain at £400k or £500k if the international is decent and of championship standard but I don’t think Tom is of this standard and the scouts know it. Ipswich spent £1.6 million on a ACCY striker who had only played in Div2, no one is telling me it’s just accident that Tom wasn’t signed in the January window for less than £500k. Grigg Tuesday night exposed both Craig and Locks and there is a lot better than him in the Championship.
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Post by neilv93 on Mar 8, 2019 11:17:19 GMT
Out of interest, where is this £200k number coming from? Also, not disagreeing that he's suspect to getting dragged out of position and man-handled by opposing lump strikers but he's a good player and clearly valued highly enough to be a full Wales international alongside the likes of Spurs' Ben Davies so there's clearly SOME talent in there. I do find it interesting that he's not left yet though... Also also, he's 24. I promise you, roady, my knickers are not in a twist today I changed my pants today as well Neil! £200k is just a figure I’ve made up, I think you have a bargain at £400k or £500k if the international is decent and of championship standard but I don’t think Tom is of this standard and the scouts know it. Ipswich spent £1.6 million on a ACCY striker who had only played in Div2, no one is telling me it’s just accident that Tom wasn’t signed in the January window for less than £500k. Grigg Tuesday night exposed both Craig and Locks and there is a lot better than him in the Championship. Not disagreeing tbf, although maybe the issue is that other clubs have enquired and we simply want too much (given his stature as our captain and an international)?? Tom's best mate seemed to suggest Forest were interested in January but nothing ever did materialise.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 11:22:57 GMT
All agent talk and that’s his job to promote his client just as Kelly’s did as well.
Again Forest could have had him for peanuts in January
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Post by Rod1883 on Mar 8, 2019 11:31:10 GMT
Fwiw I think TL is a pretty good defender. I watched him closely at Pompey and he did pretty well against big strong forwards in that game. His distribution is poor, but with better players around him - giving him easier options - then that is less of an issue. He isn't a natural leader though, and needs someone else to fulfil that role alongside him.
I've seen the Grigg goal from Tuesday and both our centre halves, and the midfielders, were caught out by a quick pass and forward movement after a well taken quick throw in. The whole team seemed asleep and they didn't react quick enough - any of them. Why can't we ever take incisive throw ins like that?
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Post by Henbury Gas on Mar 8, 2019 12:01:21 GMT
Pointless referring to players playing at international level when we're a lower Div 1 side, I bet Griggs wouldn't have turned Steve Elliot like he did Locks or Craig, plus Elliot would have out the ball out of the ground before they scored, he'd have probably also taken one or both chances Locks spurned at the other end. Well said Topper, spot on. I would also add the internationals mentioned are marking world class players as well, no one is telling me it’s all relative. At Div1 level you don’t see that many brilliant strikers and look at the gulf to the premiership which Taylor is miles off and can’t get a game Champ. We see players like Ryan Taylor at Plymouth batter and man handle Locker because he’s not tall enough as last season. I was at Walsall Boxing Day and Andy Cook destroyed Lockyer and Craig in the air all game again. I am also with Steve (Gashead81) re Beccles, is take him. At this level it’s proven height and aggression are needed over ability where as in the Champ they are even now playing from the back. When City went up they had Aden Flint at 6ft 5. Lockyer will never ever make it Championship week in week out. As some of you know I’m personal friends with Lee Johnson. Lee’s scouts watched Tom, they reported back he’s average and gets dragged out of position too easy. I will keep saying it, a Championship side like Swansea could have got Tom in January for £200k and he never went, we all know the reason. If Tom is as poor as you think he is, why is he still being picked for the full Walsh squad when as you say there are better players higher up the leagues ? Did you watch Tom in the China Cup last year when he was up against the two top strikers from Argentina ? They not once "skinned" him or dominated him
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Mar 8, 2019 12:09:41 GMT
Well said Topper, spot on. I would also add the internationals mentioned are marking world class players as well, no one is telling me it’s all relative. At Div1 level you don’t see that many brilliant strikers and look at the gulf to the premiership which Taylor is miles off and can’t get a game Champ. We see players like Ryan Taylor at Plymouth batter and man handle Locker because he’s not tall enough as last season. I was at Walsall Boxing Day and Andy Cook destroyed Lockyer and Craig in the air all game again. I am also with Steve (Gashead81) re Beccles, is take him. At this level it’s proven height and aggression are needed over ability where as in the Champ they are even now playing from the back. When City went up they had Aden Flint at 6ft 5. Lockyer will never ever make it Championship week in week out. As some of you know I’m personal friends with Lee Johnson. Lee’s scouts watched Tom, they reported back he’s average and gets dragged out of position too easy. I will keep saying it, a Championship side like Swansea could have got Tom in January for £200k and he never went, we all know the reason. If Tom is as poor as you think he is, why is he still being picked for the full Walsh squad when as you say there are better players higher up the leagues ? Did you watch Tom in the China Cup last year when he was up against the two top strikers from Argentina ? They not once "skinned" him or dominated him I watched the China Cup. It was Uruguay he played against and he did look quite comfortable, without having much to do and only played 15 minutes or so.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Mar 8, 2019 12:17:32 GMT
If Tom is as poor as you think he is, why is he still being picked for the full Walsh squad when as you say there are better players higher up the leagues ? Did you watch Tom in the China Cup last year when he was up against the two top strikers from Argentina ? They not once "skinned" him or dominated him I watched the China Cup. It was Uruguay he played against and he did look quite comfortable, without having much to do and only played 15 minutes or so. Thanks, i just remembered it was Uruguay ! Was it Luis Suárez he had in his pocket lol
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 8, 2019 12:59:19 GMT
Fwiw I think TL is a pretty good defender. I watched him closely at Pompey and he did pretty well against big strong forwards in that game. His distribution is poor, but with better players around him - giving him easier options - then that is less of an issue. He isn't a natural leader though, and needs someone else to fulfil that role alongside him. I've seen the Grigg goal from Tuesday and both our centre halves, and the midfielders, were caught out by a quick pass and forward movement after a well taken quick throw in. The whole team seemed asleep and they didn't react quick enough - any of them. Why can't we ever take incisive throw ins like that?Because opposition players don't fall asleep like Upson & O Clark tend to do during a game? What's irritating is DC knew Locks can't pass so he signed Craig who is even worse, he does really beggar belief, if DC had spent Craig's & TB's wages on a decent Sweeney type experienced CH we could be pressing at the right end of the table, like Blackpool who were nothing special last Saturday apart from all being giants!
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Post by faggotygas on Mar 8, 2019 13:15:37 GMT
I don’t think Locks will stay as he’s our highest paid player in the club, I think for budget and value for money we can do better. His contract was loaded with bonus’s and a change once he became a international, he’s got a wise agent. Jermaine Easter. Welcome to the forum Jermaine, and thanks for your service at the Gas. What are you up to these days?
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