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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 13:19:34 GMT
Well said Topper, spot on. I would also add the internationals mentioned are marking world class players as well, no one is telling me it’s all relative. At Div1 level you don’t see that many brilliant strikers and look at the gulf to the premiership which Taylor is miles off and can’t get a game Champ. We see players like Ryan Taylor at Plymouth batter and man handle Locker because he’s not tall enough as last season. I was at Walsall Boxing Day and Andy Cook destroyed Lockyer and Craig in the air all game again. I am also with Steve (Gashead81) re Beccles, is take him. At this level it’s proven height and aggression are needed over ability where as in the Champ they are even now playing from the back. When City went up they had Aden Flint at 6ft 5. Lockyer will never ever make it Championship week in week out. As some of you know I’m personal friends with Lee Johnson. Lee’s scouts watched Tom, they reported back he’s average and gets dragged out of position too easy. I will keep saying it, a Championship side like Swansea could have got Tom in January for £200k and he never went, we all know the reason. If Tom is as poor as you think he is, why is he still being picked for the full Walsh squad when as you say there are better players higher up the leagues ? Did you watch Tom in the China Cup last year when he was up against the two top strikers from Argentina ? They not once "skinned" him or dominated him I haven’t said Tom is poor, in my opinion he is a average Div1 defender, he’s not poor at this level and neither is he stand out. The graph on my original thread shows this? Re international football, Tom has said he much prefers it because you have time on the ball and it’s not all direct fast paced like our standard of football. Look at Robson Kanu, he scored in the Euro Finals for Wales but was terrible in the Premiership for WBA and has 9 goals in 80 games for them. Liverpool fans and pundits joke about El hadj Diouf, he destroyed Argentina in the World Cup and Houllier signed him on this and he was a terrible player at club level! Can anyone remember Garry Kenneth on this thread?!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 13:20:25 GMT
I don’t think Locks will stay as he’s our highest paid player in the club, I think for budget and value for money we can do better. His contract was loaded with bonus’s and a change once he became a international, he’s got a wise agent. Jermaine Easter. Welcome to the forum Jermaine, and thanks for your service at the Gas. What are you up to these days? He’s agent for 5/6 players of our squad along with Taylor, Bodin and Ellis.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 13:23:38 GMT
I’m sorry, people think these caps for countries of 2 million are gold dust😂😂😂😂
Kenneth, Clarkson, Riordan, even Ramasut got close to the Wales squad for us. Gosling played against Germany!
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Mar 8, 2019 13:25:27 GMT
If Tom is as poor as you think he is, why is he still being picked for the full Walsh squad when as you say there are better players higher up the leagues ? Did you watch Tom in the China Cup last year when he was up against the two top strikers from Argentina ? They not once "skinned" him or dominated him I haven’t said Tom is poor, in my opinion he is a average Div1 defender, he’s not poor at this level and neither is he stand out. The graph on my original thread shows this? Re international football, Tom has said he much prefers it because you have time on the ball and it’s not all direct fast paced like our standard of football. Look at Robson Kanu, he scored in the Euro Finals for Wales but was terrible in the Premiership for WBA and has 9 goals in 80 games for them. Liverpool fans and pundits joke about El hadj Diouf, he destroyed Argentina in the World Cup and Houllier signed him on this and he was a terrible player at club level! Can anyone remember Garry Kenneth on this thread?! Who can forget Garry Kenneth!? Turned up to the club about 2 stone overweight and looked an embarrassment on his debut in the friendly against Bristol City for Louis Carey's testimonial. In fairness he did look half decent at one point in his career and Holloway reportedly tried to sign him for Blackpool, but he massively lost his way and liked a pie and pint a bit too much.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 13:30:47 GMT
Tranmere, Scunthorpe and Forest Green have had players called up to the Wales first team squad in the last 12 months...........this tells you everything about the pool of players Giggs has to pick from. The population of Wales is 3 million and many would argue the nations national sport is Rugby.
Giggs to make the numbers up just as NI do, Grigg has been playing the majority of his career Div1 and led their attack at the euro’s.
Don’t get hung up on international call ups for nations like this, Kenneth is now a full time sales rep and he played for Scotland, he’s only 31!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 13:44:56 GMT
You can tell that most people just want massive centre-backs on here,ability is simply not required. Sergio ramos,daniel passarella,bobby moore,carlos puyol and fabio cannavaro would not get a look in on this forum. I still maintain that ability is much more important than height and any new signings or offers of contracts for players at the club should be firmly based on that. The biggest centre-backs i ever saw were in the conference season playing against us. Pointless referring to players playing at international level when we're a lower Div 1 side, I bet Griggs wouldn't have turned Steve Elliot like he did Locks or Craig, plus Elliot would have out the ball out of the ground before they scored, he'd have probably also taken one or both chances Locks spurned at the other end. There are plenty of shorter centre halves at all levels but i cant quote them because i only see them when they play rovers. With steve elliot your picking one particularly good centre-back out of god knows how many lesser players we have had playing centre-half to suit your argument. Point is we could easily sign a 6ft 4" defender who would be unable to match lockyer/craig's performances in that position.
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Post by neilv93 on Mar 8, 2019 13:49:08 GMT
FWIW, I think Craig has had a good season but I too would like a commanding 6'4" type CB next to Lockyer (if he stays) next season.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 13:54:33 GMT
Fwiw I think TL is a pretty good defender. I watched him closely at Pompey and he did pretty well against big strong forwards in that game. His distribution is poor, but with better players around him - giving him easier options - then that is less of an issue. He isn't a natural leader though, and needs someone else to fulfil that role alongside him. I've seen the Grigg goal from Tuesday and both our centre halves, and the midfielders, were caught out by a quick pass and forward movement after a well taken quick throw in. The whole team seemed asleep and they didn't react quick enough - any of them. Why can't we ever take incisive throw ins like that? That goal was very similar to the short corner goal in the league game,frustrating.
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Mar 8, 2019 14:06:35 GMT
I quite like Craig and think he’s had a decent season, but IMO it would massively benefit Lockyer and our whole team if he was replaced in the starting XI with a CB who possesses a bit more pace next season.
It would allow us to play 10 yards further up the pitch and press the opposition more as a team, rather than having to play a deep defensive line most of the time because we’re scared of any quick strikers exposing TC.
I’d still like to see TC kept around the squad next year as I’m sure his experience is excellent to have around the place, but having a faster CB would benefit us a lot IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 14:08:54 GMT
Pointless referring to players playing at international level when we're a lower Div 1 side, I bet Griggs wouldn't have turned Steve Elliot like he did Locks or Craig, plus Elliot would have out the ball out of the ground before they scored, he'd have probably also taken one or both chances Locks spurned at the other end. There are plenty of shorter centre halves at all levels but i cant quote them because i only see them when they play rovers. With steve elliot your picking one particularly good centre-back out of god knows how many lesser players we have had playing centre-half to suit your argument. Point is we could easily sign a 6ft 4" defender who would be unable to match lockyer/craig's performances in that position. I’m sorry but how many games do you do to and see? Tom is 5ft 11 and I go to most home and away and I can’t remember seeing anyone this season smaller than this, maybe a couple the same height but not smaller. I played central defence all my days and I’m 5ft 11, my weakness was again jumping against bigger men, those 2 inches make a massive difference when jumping. We are suspectable to the long ball in rhe air down the middle, see the graph for gods sake and I don’t need to see the graph, we know it anyway. The defence is being defended by 3 central midfielders most games, we had 4 Tuesday night. Our defenders rarely score from set pieces as well, we just are not big enough. Look at our wins in the air, all these second balls cost us
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 8, 2019 14:13:39 GMT
There are plenty of shorter centre halves at all levels but i cant quote them because i only see them when they play rovers. With steve elliot your picking one particularly good centre-back out of god knows how many lesser players we have had playing centre-half to suit your argument. Point is we could easily sign a 6ft 4" defender who would be unable to match lockyer/craig's performances in that position. I’m sorry but how many games do you do to and see? Tom is 5ft 11 and I go to most home and away and I can’t remember seeing anyone this season smaller than this, maybe a couple the same height but not smaller. I played central defence all my days and I’m 5ft 11, my weakness was again jumping against bigger men, those 2 inches make a massive difference when jumping. We are suspectable to the long ball in rhe air down the middle, see the graph for gods sake and I don’t need to see the graph, we know it anyway. The defence is being defended by 3 central midfielders most games, we had 4 Tuesday night. Our defenders rarely score from set pieces as well, we just are not big enough. Look at our wins in the air, all these second balls cost us Isn't the issue Craig alongside Locks is just too short as not many teams have two 6'4"+ CB's? We did OK when Sweeney was on form alongside Locks, they even scored from set pieces! As far as BB saying we may get inferior players than TC, if we stay up then surely it's GC's & TW's job to get in better players than those released or otherwise it'll be another relegation fight next season?
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Post by stigofthegas on Mar 8, 2019 14:14:27 GMT
If Tom is as poor as you think he is, why is he still being picked for the full Walsh squad when as you say there are better players higher up the leagues ? Did you watch Tom in the China Cup last year when he was up against the two top strikers from Argentina ? They not once "skinned" him or dominated him I watched the China Cup. It was Uruguay he played against and he did look quite comfortable, without having much to do and only played 15 minutes or so. He played 75 minutes against Mexico’s Hernandez going on as a sub when Ashley Williams bust a rib. He then played both China Cup games and started against Albania being singled out by Giggs for praise. It’s real shame Roadman thinks he isn’t big enough for League 1. Tom must be devastated. Maybe the reasons he hasn’t gone are twofold. Firstly his loyalty, and secondly Rovers really wanted to keep him
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 14:25:09 GMT
Topper I think Locks can play next to a 6ft 3 plus guy at this level and he would be good enough for us next season. The issue is Craig has one more year and they both can’t stay as first choice, one had to go or accept a sub role for the bigger man.
If I had my way I would keep Tom and try and offload Craig but I wouldn’t bow down to Easter using us a bargaining tool to get Locks big wages, he’s just average.
I’ve said all season if we had a big bloke next to Locks and say a Jonson instead of Payne we’d be a Wycombe now but the previous manager assembled a real poor squad with his budget.
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Post by noblegas on Mar 8, 2019 14:31:43 GMT
I just don't understand some of the nonsense that gets spouted on here. What on earth is the point of arguing the toss about whether Craig is a championship player. That is the very definition of a moot point. He's evidently good enough for league 1 (and therefore league 2)- look at our defensive record. Just watch the bloody games! If we stay up it will be largely due to Tony Craig's defensive guile and experience- and if we go down it sure as hell won't be the fault of anyone in defence.
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Post by markczgas on Mar 8, 2019 14:32:15 GMT
Fwiw I think TL is a pretty good defender. I watched him closely at Pompey and he did pretty well against big strong forwards in that game. His distribution is poor, but with better players around him - giving him easier options - then that is less of an issue. He isn't a natural leader though, and needs someone else to fulfil that role alongside him. I've seen the Grigg goal from Tuesday and both our centre halves, and the midfielders, were caught out by a quick pass and forward movement after a well taken quick throw in. The whole team seemed asleep and they didn't react quick enough - any of them. Why can't we ever take incisive throw ins like that? Agree with a lot of this but I don't think you can make excuses for Locks' passing - he is just as likely to mishit a pass when under no pressure than when under it. He just lacks the ability to be consistent at it. in midfield Ollie as well - lots of great attributes but sometimes it's like he's got lead in his boots - overhitting his passes. In their defence, they have both improved their passing - but not greatly IMHO.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 15:07:17 GMT
There are plenty of shorter centre halves at all levels but i cant quote them because i only see them when they play rovers. With steve elliot your picking one particularly good centre-back out of god knows how many lesser players we have had playing centre-half to suit your argument. Point is we could easily sign a 6ft 4" defender who would be unable to match lockyer/craig's performances in that position. I’m sorry but how many games do you do to and see? Tom is 5ft 11 and I go to most home and away and I can’t remember seeing anyone this season smaller than this, maybe a couple the same height but not smaller. I played central defence all my days and I’m 5ft 11, my weakness was again jumping against bigger men, those 2 inches make a massive difference when jumping. We are suspectable to the long ball in rhe air down the middle, see the graph for gods sake and I don’t need to see the graph, we know it anyway. The defence is being defended by 3 central midfielders most games, we had 4 Tuesday night. Our defenders rarely score from set pieces as well, we just are not big enough. Look at our wins in the air, all these second balls cost us I watch all the home games,previously some away games but not this season. I played for 30 years but unless you played league football then our relative mickey mouse playing days are irrelevant. The graph i use is the goals against column and lockyer and craig being a decent partnership and also winning plenty of ball in the air. I havnt seen anyone dominate them in the air like clarke-harris did v sunderland and blackpool,not even clarke-harris when he played at the mem. In sunderlands case they simply dealt with clarke-harris by winning the 2nd ball. The thing i will admit is that its unusual to have 2 players who are relatively short in that position,will be interesting to see what happens after the season ends.
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Post by peterhooper57 on Mar 8, 2019 15:33:34 GMT
You can tell that most people just want massive centre-backs on here,ability is simply not required. Sergio ramos,daniel passarella,bobby moore,carlos puyol and fabio cannavaro would not get a look in on this forum. I still maintain that ability is much more important than height and any new signings or offers of contracts for players at the club should be firmly based on that. The biggest centre-backs i ever saw were in the conference season playing against us. IMO, I maintain, the best centre half to play for BRFC, Stuart Taylor, 6' 5", made a record 546 appearances, a actual club legend, a very very good player, never saw him miss many headers; lockyer and craig unfortunately are too short to play together as centre backs, keep one maybe, let the other go, both are replaceable.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 16:01:57 GMT
You can tell that most people just want massive centre-backs on here,ability is simply not required. Sergio ramos,daniel passarella,bobby moore,carlos puyol and fabio cannavaro would not get a look in on this forum. I still maintain that ability is much more important than height and any new signings or offers of contracts for players at the club should be firmly based on that. The biggest centre-backs i ever saw were in the conference season playing against us. IMO, I maintain, the best centre half to play for BRFC, Stuart Taylor, 6' 5", made a record 546 appearances, a actual club legend, a very very good player, never saw him miss many headers; lockyer and craig unfortunately are too short to play together as centre backs, keep one maybe, let the other go, both are replaceable. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 I’d be saying “come in Jermaine and take a seat but before you start, we don’t want to hear about Wales caps and all the interest in Tom, here is our offer take it or leave it?” Last summer there were 139 players Championship players out of contract in May, add in our league and Div2 and look at Andy Cook who got 27 goals in the Conference for Tranmere. He joined Walsall on a free and has taken to Div1 like a duck to water. www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/221-championship-players-to-leave-end-season/We just need to make sure we get a better free transfer than Craig from the Championship
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 8, 2019 16:17:07 GMT
Topper I think Locks can play next to a 6ft 3 plus guy at this level and he would be good enough for us next season. The issue is Craig has one more year and they both can’t stay as first choice, one had to go or accept a sub role for the bigger man. If I had my way I would keep Tom and try and offload Craig but I wouldn’t bow down to Easter using us a bargaining tool to get Locks big wages, he’s just average. I’ve said all season if we had a big bloke next to Locks and say a Jonson instead of Payne we’d be a Wycombe now but the previous manager assembled a real poor squad with his budget. Is that for certain as I assumed we gave him an 18 months contract last January? If not this thread could be immaterial as if Locks doesn't want to leave/we have no decent offers, we could well be stuck with them next season anyway.
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Post by singupgas on Mar 8, 2019 16:22:24 GMT
I just don't understand some of the nonsense that gets spouted on here. What on earth is the point of arguing the toss about whether Craig is a championship player. That is the very definition of a moot point. He's evidently good enough for league 1 (and therefore league 2)- look at our defensive record. Just watch the bloody games! If we stay up it will be largely due to Tony Craig's defensive guile and experience- and if we go down it sure as hell won't be the fault of anyone in defence. Hard to argue with this and I think you are right. There might be better defenders out there but our haven't exactly done badly this season. 20th in the table with -2 goal difference. Imagine if we score one more than the opposition's in 5 or something of those draws we would be at the other end of the table. We have been poor going forward for the best part of the season. Excluding the recent signings then Midfield and strikers have not done enough.
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