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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 16:30:41 GMT
I just don't understand some of the nonsense that gets spouted on here. What on earth is the point of arguing the toss about whether Craig is a championship player. That is the very definition of a moot point. He's evidently good enough for league 1 (and therefore league 2)- look at our defensive record. Just watch the bloody games! If we stay up it will be largely due to Tony Craig's defensive guile and experience- and if we go down it sure as hell won't be the fault of anyone in defence. Hard to argue with this and I think you are right. There might be better defenders out there but our haven't exactly done badly this season. 20th in the table with -2 goal difference. Imagine if we score one more than the opposition's in 5 or something of those draws we would be at the other end of the table. We have been poor going forward for the best part of the season. Excluding the recent signings then Midfield and strikers have not done enough. We are judging a defence on team that doesn’t play out and out wingers, even Rodman has played wing back in at 5 for us this season. Our defence gets an awful lot of protection and it should be good, we had 4 central midfielders in front of it Tuesday night. I will also add Parts and Clarke off no width at all really and both have played centre half in their careers. Leads isn’t trusted anymore because he attacks too much in my opinion. The protection of our defence is the reason why we haven’t scored many this season and got a striker with over 10 goals, we don’t make chances that much.
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Mar 8, 2019 16:58:31 GMT
Hard to argue with this and I think you are right. There might be better defenders out there but our haven't exactly done badly this season. 20th in the table with -2 goal difference. Imagine if we score one more than the opposition's in 5 or something of those draws we would be at the other end of the table. We have been poor going forward for the best part of the season. Excluding the recent signings then Midfield and strikers have not done enough. We are judging a defence on team that doesn’t play out and out wingers, even Rodman has played wing back in at 5 for us this season. Our defence gets an awful lot of protection and it should be good, we had 4 central midfielders in front of it Tuesday night. I will also add Parts and Clarke off no width at all really and both have played centre half in their careers. Leads isn’t trusted anymore because he attacks too much in my opinion. The protection of our defence is the reason why we haven’t scored many this season and got a striker with over 10 goals, we don’t make chances that much. Bang on. IMO it’s one of the reasons why someone like Michael Keane was able to put in performances that had him on the verge of an England call-up at Burnley, but goes to a more open and expansive side like Everton and has his flaws exposed. At Burnley he had two defensive midfielders cutting out balls in front of him and a fairly defensive fullback next to him. He goes to Everton and is put in more 1v1 defensive situations, and has often looked out of his depth.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 17:07:08 GMT
We are judging a defence on team that doesn’t play out and out wingers, even Rodman has played wing back in at 5 for us this season. Our defence gets an awful lot of protection and it should be good, we had 4 central midfielders in front of it Tuesday night. I will also add Parts and Clarke off no width at all really and both have played centre half in their careers. Leads isn’t trusted anymore because he attacks too much in my opinion. The protection of our defence is the reason why we haven’t scored many this season and got a striker with over 10 goals, we don’t make chances that much. Bang on. IMO it’s one of the reasons why someone like Michael Keane was able to put in performances that had him on the verge of an England call-up at Burnley, but goes to a more open and expansive side like Everton and has his flaws exposed. At Burnley he had two defensive midfielders cutting out balls in front of him and a fairly defensive fullback next to him. He goes to Everton and is put in more 1v1 defensive situations, and has often looked out of his depth. Spot on but you watch the game and read it, too many of our fans look at how many we have conceded and can’t work out the attacking side of the team has been held back to defend. Since Nicholls joined us he spent the majority of his time with us outside of the box and out on the wing defending. Cureton would simply have refused to play in this role as would Michael Owen and Robbie Fowler’s, poachers and fox in the boxes. When do you ever see Nicholls getting a ball like this We are set up so defensive because Cogs knows that the defence can’t defend for 90 minutes, we are too small and not dominant enough.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 17:37:33 GMT
You can tell that most people just want massive centre-backs on here,ability is simply not required. Sergio ramos,daniel passarella,bobby moore,carlos puyol and fabio cannavaro would not get a look in on this forum. I still maintain that ability is much more important than height and any new signings or offers of contracts for players at the club should be firmly based on that. The biggest centre-backs i ever saw were in the conference season playing against us. IMO, I maintain, the best centre half to play for BRFC, Stuart Taylor, 6' 5", made a record 546 appearances, a actual club legend, a very very good player, never saw him miss many headers; lockyer and craig unfortunately are too short to play together as centre backs, keep one maybe, let the other go, both are replaceable. Gary mabbutt was a much better player than taylor and brilliant in the air. He is 5ft 10".tall.
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 8, 2019 17:58:37 GMT
Bang on. IMO it’s one of the reasons why someone like Michael Keane was able to put in performances that had him on the verge of an England call-up at Burnley, but goes to a more open and expansive side like Everton and has his flaws exposed. At Burnley he had two defensive midfielders cutting out balls in front of him and a fairly defensive fullback next to him. He goes to Everton and is put in more 1v1 defensive situations, and has often looked out of his depth. Spot on but you watch the game and read it, too many of our fans look at how many we have conceded and can’t work out the attacking side of the team has been held back to defend. Since Nicholls joined us he spent the majority of his time with us outside of the box and out on the wing defending. Cureton would simply have refused to play in this role as would Michael Owen and Robbie Fowler’s, poachers and fox in the boxes. When do you ever see Nicholls getting a ball like this We are set up so defensive because Cogs knows that the defence can’t defend for 90 minutes, we are too small and not dominant enough. But isn't that also down to the fact Nichols has no real interest in getting into the box? Although it was noticeable JCH spent most of the second half on Tuesday looking for the ball deep/out wide rather than leading the line higher up the pitch.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 18:04:57 GMT
Bang on. IMO it’s one of the reasons why someone like Michael Keane was able to put in performances that had him on the verge of an England call-up at Burnley, but goes to a more open and expansive side like Everton and has his flaws exposed. At Burnley he had two defensive midfielders cutting out balls in front of him and a fairly defensive fullback next to him. He goes to Everton and is put in more 1v1 defensive situations, and has often looked out of his depth. Spot on but you watch the game and read it, too many of our fans look at how many we have conceded and can’t work out the attacking side of the team has been held back to defend. Since Nicholls joined us he spent the majority of his time with us outside of the box and out on the wing defending. Cureton would simply have refused to play in this role as would Michael Owen and Robbie Fowler’s, poachers and fox in the boxes. When do you ever see Nicholls getting a ball like this We are set up so defensive because Cogs knows that the defence can’t defend for 90 minutes, we are too small and not dominant enough. So you and some other posters are watching and reading the game but anyone with a different opinion cant work it out? If only we all had your vast knowledge not to mention your experience of being an actual centre-half.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 18:20:07 GMT
All this talk about height, yet both Lockyer and Craig are better than Broadbent in the air.
And why we're talking about championship standard centre halves, when we are lower end League 1 at best, is beyond me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 18:36:23 GMT
All this talk about height, yet both Lockyer and Craig are better than Broadbent in the air. And why we're talking about championship standard centre halves, when we are lower end League 1 at best, is beyond me. Let’s judge Broadbent once he’s a regular at Swindon as he is and now a fans favourite. I went to Northampton in the Checkatrade and saw his last game for us, he was brilliant in rhe air and also scored. After the game Coughlan commented how good he was in the air and how he won all his headers 🤔 Northampton played a lot of hoof ball that night
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 8, 2019 19:27:17 GMT
I just don't understand some of the nonsense that gets spouted on here. What on earth is the point of arguing the toss about whether Craig is a championship player. That is the very definition of a moot point. He's evidently good enough for league 1 (and therefore league 2)- look at our defensive record. Just watch the bloody games! If we stay up it will be largely due to Tony Craig's defensive guile and experience- and if we go down it sure as hell won't be the fault of anyone in defence. Spot on noble. In a nutshell. UTG!
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 8, 2019 19:58:20 GMT
I just don't understand some of the nonsense that gets spouted on here. What on earth is the point of arguing the toss about whether Craig is a championship player. That is the very definition of a moot point. He's evidently good enough for league 1 (and therefore league 2)- look at our defensive record. Just watch the bloody games! If we stay up it will be largely due to Tony Craig's defensive guile and experience- and if we go down it sure as hell won't be the fault of anyone in defence. Spot on noble. In a nutshell. UTG! Disagree with some of this. We are good defensively mainly because we are a low press team set up with a DCM in front of the back 4. This then gives a massive gap to the strikers, as proven because we have trouble scoring. This means our striker drop deep to pick up possession and it shortens the time our more creative players like Sercombe have on the ball. From where I sit it’s so frustrating to see week in week out. The reason it’s so frustrating is because it’s so obvious and if we had a more dominant ball winning and ball playing centre half and a better outlet on the right we could still be defensively competent and compete in the middle of the park more, getting forward more and giving the strikers more of a chance to score more. Yes we are difficult to break down, but if we get broken, we lose 1-0. Like against Walsall, Wycombe and Burton to name a few. If we stay up I would more likely say it’s because we have introduced 3 good players since Cogs took over in THD and Ogogo who add some bite and an outlet and JCH who knows where the net is. But let’s be honest, the football isn’t much better and Cogs is still putting square pegs in round holes and playing the defensive low press game.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 20:03:47 GMT
Spot on noble. In a nutshell. UTG! Disagree with some of this. We are good defensively mainly because we are a low press team set up with a DCM in front of the back 4. This then gives a massive gap to the strikers, as proven because we have trouble scoring. This means our striker drop deep to pick up possession and it shortens the time our more creative players like Sercombe have on the ball. From where I sit it’s so frustrating to see week in week out. The reason it’s so frustrating is because it’s so obvious and if we had a more dominant ball winning and ball playing centre half and a better outlet on the right we could still be defensively competent and compete in the middle of the park more, getting forward more and giving the strikers more of a chance to score more. Yes we are difficult to break down, but if we get broken, we lose 1-0. Like against Walsall, Wycombe and Burton to name a few. If we stay up I would more likely say it’s because we have introduced 3 good players since Cogs took over in THD and Ogogo who add some bite and an outlet and JCH who knows where the net is. But let’s be honest, the football isn’t much better and Cogs is still putting square pegs in round holes and playing the defensive low press game. Best post on this these Steve and from your box you can see the whole game better than anyone in rhe stadium. We are low press, defensive midfield and it will be the whole team that has defensively kept us up but if we go down it will be lack of goals. You look at our promotion season and even when we have stayed in Div1 we’ve had a goal scoring midfield.
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Post by berhill4 on Mar 8, 2019 23:46:57 GMT
All this talk about height, yet both Lockyer and Craig are better than Broadbent in the air. And why we're talking about championship standard centre halves, when we are lower end League 1 at best, is beyond me.
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Post by pirate on Mar 9, 2019 0:56:49 GMT
All this talk about height, yet both Lockyer and Craig are better than Broadbent in the air. And why we're talking about championship standard centre halves, when we are lower end League 1 at best, is beyond me. Thanks Mr Broadbent, Tom's Dad. Nice to see you again.
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Post by socrates on Mar 9, 2019 1:09:04 GMT
We wouldn’t even be talking about our defence, if we had “One” game changer. But we haven’t. In fact, we haven’t got a single player I’d pay to watch. But there in my blood. Yeah I think our keeper and defence is as strong as it’s been in years but unfortunately where we’ve had quality attacking players in recent seasons this season we haven’t had a bodin Taylor or Ellis. Harris looks like he could be the next but time will tell. Sercombe has been wasted out wide most of the season, lines ( our best creater last four years )has hardly played and we just haven’t created and scored enough goals. I’m not a massive fan of Lockyer or Craig but I think they’re both decent for this level addd to that a very good left back and two decent right backs and a good keeper on loan and our defence has been the least of our problems this season. If we had this squad and still had one of Taylor bodin or Ellis all season we’d be mid table if we had all three we’d be top half pushing for promotion.. Thing is if you pay peanuts then it’s hard to find top quality attacking players and sooner or later ( later in DCs case) you’ll run out of luck.
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 9, 2019 17:05:16 GMT
Think this thread must have motivated our centre halves today, as they probably had their most dominant game of the season.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 17:20:54 GMT
Think this thread must have motivated our centre halves today, as they probably had their most dominant game of the season. I hope so Topper. I thought we defended brilliant today and the two boys at the back won most of what they faced. Bonham looked assured as well, he’s brought confidence to our defence. I think Coughlan deserves some praise as well, since he’s taken over the defensive unit is much better. Big praise as well for Michael Kelly today as well, solid performance
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Post by tinner on Mar 13, 2019 13:40:02 GMT
The state of some comments on here is why most 'normal' supporters find this forum a total embarrassment.
To think we have people totally disregarding the fact that we have had one of the best defensive records all season, also ignoring the fact that both Lockyer & Craig are virtual ever presents, not hiding, and putting in 100% each week, and now playing a key part in our improved record. Instead the demand is for a strong tall centre half...never mind if they are any good, have no pace and cannot defend against the modern forward!! You have one person even quoting name and height statistics...absolutely pathetic.
I have no doubt the same t*ssers were saying Lee Brown was past his best and over the hill at 27.....and who is now an ever present for a team at the top end of this league!
I notice with our recent run of results, comments are softening.....but the underlying negativity remains and for an absolute legend such as Lockyer, that is a disgrace.
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Post by aghast on Mar 13, 2019 17:34:08 GMT
The state of some comments on here is why most 'normal' supporters find this forum a total embarrassment. To think we have people totally disregarding the fact that we have had one of the best defensive records all season, also ignoring the fact that both Lockyer & Craig are virtual ever presents, not hiding, and putting in 100% each week, and now playing a key part in our improved record. Instead the demand is for a strong tall centre half...never mind if they are any good, have no pace and cannot defend against the modern forward!! You have one person even quoting name and height statistics...absolutely pathetic. I have no doubt the same t*ssers were saying Lee Brown was past his best and over the hill at 27.....and who is now an ever present for a team at the top end of this league! I notice with our recent run of results, comments are softening.....but the underlying negativity remains and for an absolute legend such as Lockyer, that is a disgrace. You obviously don't sit high up enough in the East stand......
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 17:42:06 GMT
The state of some comments on here is why most 'normal' supporters find this forum a total embarrassment. To think we have people totally disregarding the fact that we have had one of the best defensive records all season, also ignoring the fact that both Lockyer & Craig are virtual ever presents, not hiding, and putting in 100% each week, and now playing a key part in our improved record. Instead the demand is for a strong tall centre half...never mind if they are any good, have no pace and cannot defend against the modern forward!! You have one person even quoting name and height statistics...absolutely pathetic. I have no doubt the same t*ssers were saying Lee Brown was past his best and over the hill at 27.....and who is now an ever present for a team at the top end of this league! I notice with our recent run of results, comments are softening.....but the underlying negativity remains and for an absolute legend such as Lockyer, that is a disgrace. share.icloud.com/photos/0XXw5GOPVQe9q45uO3T9zcB5wOpinions, don’t get the tosser comment, what’s your name by the way? Paul (Also covered on here gaschat.co.uk/thread/14026/defensive-solidarity ) And describe normal supporter? Is that season ticket holder of 22 years who goes away most weeks as well. Is that normal supporter with a table of 10 at the 1883 Club End of Season awards night in a couple of weeks? I think a normal supporter supports the side but has an opinion on a forum, in the pub, walk back to car, car journey home by supports on a match day. But as you are handing out names for supporters, I put you in the group of Offensive. Calling people tossers in your pants in your bedroom behind a user name.
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 13, 2019 20:37:39 GMT
I went last night. In the main the defence were solid. Craig played well and him and Lockyer marshalled a strong forward line very well.
Fair play to them both, I can call when players have good games and bad, and last night they were very good.
However we are 37 games into a season, we are 3 points off the drop, and the reason we are down there is because we have been pretty poor in most games. Yes it’s because we haven’t scored enough up top but mainly that’s because our defensive tactics mean our strikers don’t get into goal scoring areas as much as they drop deep to pick up possession.
We need a change of tack now for next year. This year there are times where it’s really been highlighted we need to change the low press tactics, get some width onto the pitch and have a taller, ball playing centre half. Like it or not, Craig gets turned far too easily and isn’t as fast as he used to be, to be top 12 in L1 that’s an immeasurable area to improve.
Just an immeadiate area for improvement is to reduce our midfielders and get some wingers in.
We lack balance and if we address it with the right personnel we can have a much better year next year.
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