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Post by LJG on Jan 21, 2020 14:38:14 GMT
I've asked a few people who've posted similar things but as yet no response: Why do you describe this as a management saga? The manager is on compassionate leave - what do you expect the owners to do about that? Losing GC w/o seemingly putting up a fight, then appointing a manager with no managerial experience, who with v. limited budget wants to completely change our style which almost got us to 2nd, always looked a risky decision. Now we have this open ended date when BG might return which seems unheard of in football at this level. Yet more baseless histrionics. I can't be bothered to look but I'm willing to bet that a manager being off for less than two weeks is not unheard of in football at this level. As for GC leaving you'd be the first one peeing your pants if we'd kept him on and upped his salary after his comments live on the radio. And heaven forbid he lost a game after all that.
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Post by LJG on Jan 21, 2020 14:43:23 GMT
Same question to you as I've asked above. They appoint Warnock and Ben wants to come back next week. Then what? They give it to Maher and Ben wants to come back then what? Both are nonsense suggestions. Just as it would be if your employer looked to replace you you because you'd been off for a week and a bit. Same as I’ve said- he’s got til the summer off, it’s not rocket science is it? Results have not just nose dived they’ve fallen off a bloody cliff. As long as we don’t make him redundant or make it so he has no job to come back to then what.’s the issue? It’s a results business and like any other business that has a falling share price the custodians are looked to to take remedial action. Our mob are waiting to see what move a man on compassionate leave takes when they should be grasping the bull by the horns and making the decision to give him 5 months off- for everyone’s benefit. It's so obvious you've given this the least amount of serious thought possible. It literally doesn't stand up to a second's scrutiny. Ignoring for a second that there are probably Employment law implications to forcing someone into months of gardening leave because they've taken a couple of weeks compassionate leave, let's say we get Warnock in or give it to Maher full time. Results turn around and we get promoted automatically. Then what? Thanks for that Neil, but Ben's coming back to work now. Bye? You would accept that? You wouldn't be describing it as embarrassing?
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Post by LJG on Jan 21, 2020 14:44:03 GMT
It seems that you and I will have to agree to disagree LJG. In my opinion paying an extra salary to the end of the season, to save our season, is eminently sensible and good business. We are saving one salary at the moment anyway as both GC and Dunne left with only BG coming in. Same question to you as posed to gas365 above.
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Post by Rod1883 on Jan 21, 2020 14:46:13 GMT
It seems that you and I will have to agree to disagree LJG. In my opinion paying an extra salary to the end of the season, to save our season, is eminently sensible and good business. We are saving one salary at the moment anyway as both GC and Dunne left with only BG coming in. Same question to you as posed to gas365 above. I've explained my view previously. You clearly have your view. We differ - let's leave it at that
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Post by LJG on Jan 21, 2020 14:48:31 GMT
Same question to you as posed to gas365 above. I've explained my view previously. You clearly have your view. We differ - let's leave it at that I'm just asking what your thoughts would be on the scenario I described above? We get someone else in. They get us promoted. Ben is ready to return to work at the start of next season. How do you feel about that when Neil Warnock is being shown the door to make way for BG coming back?
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Post by Rod1883 on Jan 21, 2020 14:51:20 GMT
I've explained my view previously. You clearly have your view. We differ - let's leave it at that I'm just asking what your thoughts would be on the scenario I described above? We get someone else in. They get us promoted. Ben is ready to return to work at the start of next season. How do you feel about that when Neil Warnock is being shown the door to make way for BG coming back? As I explained if you took the time to read my posts that the appointment would be a fixed term one to give certainty to all parties
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Post by LJG on Jan 21, 2020 15:03:04 GMT
I'm just asking what your thoughts would be on the scenario I described above? We get someone else in. They get us promoted. Ben is ready to return to work at the start of next season. How do you feel about that when Neil Warnock is being shown the door to make way for BG coming back? As I explained if you took the time to read my posts that the appointment would be a fixed term one to give certainty to all parties I've read and understood that. I'm asking about your prospective thoughts and comments in the hypothetical situation I've posed. Why aren't you able to say what you would want to do in that scenario?
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Post by paulpirate on Jan 21, 2020 15:04:21 GMT
Sell jch and get some money for him whilst we can,don’t like his attitude on the pitch at the moment putting hands in the air if he doesn’t receive a pass I didn’t see all the other players putting their hands in the air moaning at him when he missed that sitter last Saturday,that would’ve been 0-1 and totally different game Great idea,should be really easy to get someone in who will match his 22 goals in 38 games. purple patch sir,when before in his career as he ever done that
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Post by Rod1883 on Jan 21, 2020 15:09:46 GMT
As I explained if you took the time to read my posts that the appointment would be a fixed term one to give certainty to all parties I've read and understood that. I'm asking about your prospective thoughts and comments in the hypothetical situation I've posed. Why aren't you able to say what you would want to do in that scenario? I've said it - FIXED TERM CERTAINTY - everyone knows up front. Of course if someone like Warnock came in and was super successful there would be people saying can't we find a way to keep him on, perhaps as a DoF or other mentoring role - but that would have to be agreed by BG and the board in the very unlikely event it came to that. We won't be promoted anyway - the Sunderland's, Portsmouth's Ipswich's, Burton's etc are strengthening, the best we can hope for is to be top half imho.
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Post by LJG on Jan 21, 2020 15:17:13 GMT
I've read and understood that. I'm asking about your prospective thoughts and comments in the hypothetical situation I've posed. Why aren't you able to say what you would want to do in that scenario? I've said it - FIXED TERM CERTAINTY - everyone knows up front. Of course if someone like Warnock came in and was super successful there would be people saying can't we find a way to keep him on, perhaps as a DoF or other mentoring role - but that would have to be agreed by BG and the board in the very unlikely event it came to that. We won't be promoted anyway - the Sunderland's, Portsmouth's Ipswich's, Burton's etc are strengthening, the best we can hope for is to be top half imho. OK so you would be happy to get rid of a manager who sent us up to the Championship to bring Ben back in. You wouldn't say it was embarrassing or a failure of the board or be saying that it's yet another reason the owners should sell up.
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Post by Rod1883 on Jan 21, 2020 15:19:00 GMT
I've said it - FIXED TERM CERTAINTY - everyone knows up front. Of course if someone like Warnock came in and was super successful there would be people saying can't we find a way to keep him on, perhaps as a DoF or other mentoring role - but that would have to be agreed by BG and the board in the very unlikely event it came to that. We won't be promoted anyway - the Sunderland's, Portsmouth's Ipswich's, Burton's etc are strengthening, the best we can hope for is to be top half imho. OK so you would be happy to get rid of a manager who sent us up to the Championship to bring Ben back in. You wouldn't say it was embarrassing or a failure of the board or be saying that it's yet another reason the owners should sell up. I can't say what I've said any clearer. As per the title of this thread - I've had enough of this conversation
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Post by Westy on Jan 21, 2020 15:44:28 GMT
Matt Harold up front! But in response to the thread, starting to get a bit frustrated as we all are. I've hardly been on here the last few days - burying my head in the sand at the state of: The results saga The stadium saga The training ground saga The management sagaThe injuries saga The Ken Master's saga And the rest.... Damn, it's worse when you spell it out isn't it 😑 I've asked a few people who've posted similar things but as yet no response: Why do you describe this as a management saga? The manager is on compassionate leave - what do you expect the owners to do about that? It's not necessarily about BG on leave, more so the fact that we've had 4 managers in just about as many weeks The fact that BG is with his family is beside the point for me. I'm glad that's he's been allowed the time he and his family needs, and that says a lot of positive things about the board. Objectively though, 4 managers in 4 weeks and our latest manager is on an open ended period of leave - all seems a bit of a saga to me that has yet to conclude!
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Post by LJG on Jan 21, 2020 15:52:44 GMT
I've asked a few people who've posted similar things but as yet no response: Why do you describe this as a management saga? The manager is on compassionate leave - what do you expect the owners to do about that? It's not necessarily about BG on leave, more so the fact that we've had 4 managers in just about as many weeks The fact that BG is with his family is beside the point for me. I'm glad that's he's been allowed the time he and his family needs, and that says a lot of positive things about the board. Objectively though, 4 managers in 4 weeks and our latest manager is on an open ended period of leave - all seems a bit of a saga to me that has yet to conclude! I just wonder what you think the owners should have done about it? Or how they could have done anything differently? They had an employee in place who was achieving well who decided to publicly announce on the radio his private concerns about his employment making us position untenable. I'm not sure how anyone but GC could have done anything differently there. So they make an interim appointment of GC's assistant who decides to follow GC. How could the owners have changed that? They appoint a further interim before finally appointing the guy that plenty on here (including the person people consider our resident football expert) have been crying out for. People seemed happy until he didn't get off to a good start. Ben Garner has a need to go on compassionate leave so they appoint the previous interim. What else are they supposed to do?
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jan 21, 2020 15:57:25 GMT
It's not necessarily about BG on leave, more so the fact that we've had 4 managers in just about as many weeks The fact that BG is with his family is beside the point for me. I'm glad that's he's been allowed the time he and his family needs, and that says a lot of positive things about the board. Objectively though, 4 managers in 4 weeks and our latest manager is on an open ended period of leave - all seems a bit of a saga to me that has yet to conclude! I just wonder what you think the owners should have done about it? Or how they could have done anything differently? They had an employee in place who was achieving well who decided to publicly announce on the radio his private concerns about his employment making us position untenable. I'm not sure how anyone but GC could have done anything differently there. So they make an interim appointment of GC's assistant who decides to follow GC. How could the owners have changed that? They appoint a further interim before finally appointing the guy that plenty on here (including the person people consider our resident football expert) have been crying out for. People seemed happy until he didn't get off to a good start. Ben Garner has a need to go on compassionate leave so they appoint the previous interim. What else are they supposed to do?Make sure Tommy Nichols is in the starting 11.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 15:58:09 GMT
I've said it - FIXED TERM CERTAINTY - everyone knows up front. Of course if someone like Warnock came in and was super successful there would be people saying can't we find a way to keep him on, perhaps as a DoF or other mentoring role - but that would have to be agreed by BG and the board in the very unlikely event it came to that. We won't be promoted anyway - the Sunderland's, Portsmouth's Ipswich's, Burton's etc are strengthening, the best we can hope for is to be top half imho. OK so you would be happy to get rid of a manager who sent us up to the Championship to bring Ben back in. You wouldn't say it was embarrassing or a failure of the board or be saying that it's yet another reason the owners should sell up. Warnock has said himself he only wants a deal til the end of the season- that’s why it would potentially suit all parties. Even then how is it embarrassing if we give a promotion winning manager our thanks and send him on his way, presumably with a nice little bonus to thank them for their work? Plenty of clubs before (and after us) have done this. You seem to think football is a rosy business that takes place in soft focus with some sort of sentimental soundtrack playing in the background. It’s cut throat and each club has to do the best for their team, at the very least to avoid relegation. With regards to the law I’m unaware of the in’s and out’s of employment law but seeing as employee rights in the Uk massively favour the employer compared to most of the rest of the EU I suspect it won’t be a problem to hold someone’s job for them til the summer. Or bring him back and have him as assistant manager with Warnock, or dual manager in name or some such nonsense that companies pull to get around these things. Basically, if you can put someone on gardening leave and bring another manager in (as clubs routinely do) then I can’t see why we couldn’t do the same except with an end date where the gardening leave expires and the guy comes back. “Oh, silly us! We decided not to get rid of you after all! Come back in old chap”. I dare say far worse has been said and got away with in UK employment tribunals.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 16:02:06 GMT
Really don’t know how many more times the board can tell us that Maher is in charge until Garner returns before it gets accepted that’s the decision they’ve taken. Everyone is asking for clarity yet choosing to ignore the bit where they’ve already said that the man in charge will be until Ben comes back.
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Post by LJG on Jan 21, 2020 16:02:48 GMT
OK so you would be happy to get rid of a manager who sent us up to the Championship to bring Ben back in. You wouldn't say it was embarrassing or a failure of the board or be saying that it's yet another reason the owners should sell up. Warnock has said himself he only wants a deal til the end of the season- that’s why it would potentially suit all parties. Even then how is it embarrassing if we give a promotion winning manager our thanks and send him on his way, presumably with a nice little bonus to thank them for their work? Plenty of clubs before (and after us) have done this. You seem to think football is a rosy business that takes place in soft focus with some sort of sentimental soundtrack playing in the background. It’s cut throat and each club has to do the best for their team, at the very least to avoid relegation. With regards to the law I’m unaware of the in’s and out’s of employment law but seeing as employee rights in the Uk massively favour the employer compared to most of the rest of the EU I suspect it won’t be a problem to hold someone’s job for them til the summer. Or bring him back and have him as assistant manager with Warnock, or dual manager in name or some such nonsense that companies pull to get around these things. Basically, if you can put someone on gardening leave and bring another manager in (as clubs routinely do) then I can’t see why we couldn’t do the same except with an end date where the gardening leave expires and the guy comes back. “Oh, silly us! We decided not to get rid of you after all! Come back in old chap”. I dare say far worse has been said and got away with in UK employment tribunals. I was right. You have given it the least amount of serious thought possible.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 16:03:48 GMT
It's not necessarily about BG on leave, more so the fact that we've had 4 managers in just about as many weeks The fact that BG is with his family is beside the point for me. I'm glad that's he's been allowed the time he and his family needs, and that says a lot of positive things about the board. Objectively though, 4 managers in 4 weeks and our latest manager is on an open ended period of leave - all seems a bit of a saga to me that has yet to conclude! I just wonder what you think the owners should have done about it? Or how they could have done anything differently? They had an employee in place who was achieving well who decided to publicly announce on the radio his private concerns about his employment making us position untenable. I'm not sure how anyone but GC could have done anything differently there. So they make an interim appointment of GC's assistant who decides to follow GC. How could the owners have changed that? They appoint a further interim before finally appointing the guy that plenty on here (including the person people consider our resident football expert) have been crying out for. People seemed happy until he didn't get off to a good start. Ben Garner has a need to go on compassionate leave so they appoint the previous interim. What else are they supposed to do? You don’t speak for me on that score-I said to a friend of mine it was a disaster appointment waiting to happen and prior to the compassionate leave I wasn’t far wrong. Easy to say in hindsight but what the rush was I’ll never know. Last year they gave the job to GC temporarily and he earned a contract by winning games. Why not do the same this time and give Maher a chance to earn to the job himself and keep the momentum going? I can only conclude it was down to crowd figures (as Starnes somewhat alluded to) that they felt they had to change the playing style. Even so why not appoint BG after Christmas when he could actually train the players Monday to Friday? Instead they parachute a guy *with no previous experience* in and who also wants to play a totally different way during a time when our rate of fixtures doubles. Like, where is the sense?! It’s almost too predictable that it has turned out this way and we find ourselves dropping like a stone in the table.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 16:07:42 GMT
I just wonder what you think the owners should have done about it? Or how they could have done anything differently? They had an employee in place who was achieving well who decided to publicly announce on the radio his private concerns about his employment making us position untenable. I'm not sure how anyone but GC could have done anything differently there. So they make an interim appointment of GC's assistant who decides to follow GC. How could the owners have changed that? They appoint a further interim before finally appointing the guy that plenty on here (including the person people consider our resident football expert) have been crying out for. People seemed happy until he didn't get off to a good start. Ben Garner has a need to go on compassionate leave so they appoint the previous interim. What else are they supposed to do?Make sure Tommy Nichols is in the starting 11. He’s been told he can go- why should he put a shift in when he could get injured?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 16:08:37 GMT
Warnock has said himself he only wants a deal til the end of the season- that’s why it would potentially suit all parties. Even then how is it embarrassing if we give a promotion winning manager our thanks and send him on his way, presumably with a nice little bonus to thank them for their work? Plenty of clubs before (and after us) have done this. You seem to think football is a rosy business that takes place in soft focus with some sort of sentimental soundtrack playing in the background. It’s cut throat and each club has to do the best for their team, at the very least to avoid relegation. With regards to the law I’m unaware of the in’s and out’s of employment law but seeing as employee rights in the Uk massively favour the employer compared to most of the rest of the EU I suspect it won’t be a problem to hold someone’s job for them til the summer. Or bring him back and have him as assistant manager with Warnock, or dual manager in name or some such nonsense that companies pull to get around these things. Basically, if you can put someone on gardening leave and bring another manager in (as clubs routinely do) then I can’t see why we couldn’t do the same except with an end date where the gardening leave expires and the guy comes back. “Oh, silly us! We decided not to get rid of you after all! Come back in old chap”. I dare say far worse has been said and got away with in UK employment tribunals. I was right. You have given it the least amount of serious thought possible. Absolutely- I’ve just looked at what other clubs get away with.
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