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Post by Westy on Jan 22, 2020 2:23:15 GMT
It's not necessarily about BG on leave, more so the fact that we've had 4 managers in just about as many weeks The fact that BG is with his family is beside the point for me. I'm glad that's he's been allowed the time he and his family needs, and that says a lot of positive things about the board. Objectively though, 4 managers in 4 weeks and our latest manager is on an open ended period of leave - all seems a bit of a saga to me that has yet to conclude! I just wonder what you think the owners should have done about it? Or how they could have done anything differently? They had an employee in place who was achieving well who decided to publicly announce on the radio his private concerns about his employment making us position untenable. I'm not sure how anyone but GC could have done anything differently there. So they make an interim appointment of GC's assistant who decides to follow GC. How could the owners have changed that? They appoint a further interim before finally appointing the guy that plenty on here (including the person people consider our resident football expert) have been crying out for. People seemed happy until he didn't get off to a good start. Ben Garner has a need to go on compassionate leave so they appoint the previous interim. What else are they supposed to do? I'm not arguing the why's and what-for's, simply saying it all seems bit of saga is all? We've had more twists and turns on our downward spiral than Dante!
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Post by completewingback on Jan 22, 2020 4:26:30 GMT
Had enough
Going to get some McDonald's, f**k the diet
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Post by LJG on Jan 22, 2020 10:24:24 GMT
It's so obvious you've given this the least amount of serious thought possible. It literally doesn't stand up to a second's scrutiny. Ignoring for a second that there are probably Employment law implications to forcing someone into months of gardening leave because they've taken a couple of weeks compassionate leave, let's say we get Warnock in or give it to Maher full time. Results turn around and we get promoted automatically. Then what? Thanks for that Neil, but Ben's coming back to work now. Bye? You would accept that? You wouldn't be describing it as embarrassing? So as I see it, you're saying we shouldn't appoint a fixed-term interim manager in case he gets us promoted? If the stand-in is rubbish, then we can dump him with no remorse and revert to BG. But if he's really good, we have a dilemma? Is that really a serious objection or some nit-picking hypothetical nonsense? You might as well apply it to Maher in case we have a dramatic turnaround in form. And if that's a dangerous possibility, we'd better dump Maher and just let the players pick themselves. No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm illustrating is that there is a bit more serious consideration for the owners than "Get Warnock in ASAP". I think I've illustrated the point pretty well over my last few posts and no one seems to be able to respond in any serious or properly considered manner to the points I've made just chucked personal remarks and yet more repetition of the normal foot stamping bollocks that gets posted on this place. What's your answer to my question by the way? Warnock comes in and we're flying. Ben is ready to come back and ... ?
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 22, 2020 10:27:58 GMT
So as I see it, you're saying we shouldn't appoint a fixed-term interim manager in case he gets us promoted? If the stand-in is rubbish, then we can dump him with no remorse and revert to BG. But if he's really good, we have a dilemma? Is that really a serious objection or some nit-picking hypothetical nonsense? You might as well apply it to Maher in case we have a dramatic turnaround in form. And if that's a dangerous possibility, we'd better dump Maher and just let the players pick themselves. No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm illustrating is that there is a bit more serious consideration for the owners than "Get Warnock in ASAP". I think I've illustrated the point pretty well over my last few posts and no one seems to be able to respond in any serious or properly considered manner to the points I've made just chucked personal remarks and yet more repetition of the normal foot stamping bollocks that gets posted on this place. What's your answer to my question by the way? Warnock comes in and we're flying. Ben is ready to come back and ... ? Then BG gets to work as No2 to one of the most experienced managers in the game until the summer.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2020 10:31:36 GMT
So as I see it, you're saying we shouldn't appoint a fixed-term interim manager in case he gets us promoted? If the stand-in is rubbish, then we can dump him with no remorse and revert to BG. But if he's really good, we have a dilemma? Is that really a serious objection or some nit-picking hypothetical nonsense? You might as well apply it to Maher in case we have a dramatic turnaround in form. And if that's a dangerous possibility, we'd better dump Maher and just let the players pick themselves. No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm illustrating is that there is a bit more serious consideration for the owners than "Get Warnock in ASAP". I think I've illustrated the point pretty well over my last few posts and no one seems to be able to respond in any serious or properly considered manner to the points I've made just chucked personal remarks and yet more repetition of the normal foot stamping bollocks that gets posted on this place. What's your answer to my question by the way? Warnock comes in and we're flying. Ben is ready to come back and ... ? I believe I answered that point- in the case of Warnock he has said he just wants to get over the 1500 games milestone and is not looking to stay beyond the end of the season which is why it would suit Bristol Rovers and Neil Warnock. Whether it would suit BG is open to debate but as he would still have the promise of a job and the chance to “reset his reputation” by having a summer to coach his methods (provided his family issues are resolved by then) I could see how it might have appeal to him too. But it’s all hypothetical because one thing this club definitely will not do is take any sort of pro-active move in this situation. I honestly expect us to still be being managed over the phone in April even if we do not win a game until then and are staring relegation in the face.
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Post by Rod1883 on Jan 22, 2020 10:47:44 GMT
Many have responded to your stuck record LJG with reasoned arguments on how a fixed term arrangement could suit everyone in this difficult situation for all concerned. You don't agree so that's fine, but stop saying no-one has answered because we have. You don't agree with me, and I don't agree with you - as I said before let's leave it like that. Gas365 is probably right, sadly. Nothing will happen and we will find ourselves deeper in trouble in six, seven, eight games time with the transfer window closed and time to do anything about it running out.
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Post by LJG on Jan 22, 2020 10:54:02 GMT
Many have responded to your stuck record LJG with reasoned arguments on how a fixed term arrangement could suit everyone in this difficult situation for all concerned. You don't agree so that's fine, but stop saying no-one has answered because we have. You don't agree with me, and I don't agree with you - as I said before let's leave it like that. Gas365 is probably right, sadly. Nothing will happen and we will find ourselves deeper in trouble in six, seven, eight games time with the transfer window closed and time to do anything about it running out. You actually haven't answered my question. You responded to the post but didn't answer the question. You kept repeating the same thing but didn't respond to what I'd asked. Then you started the bitchy comments.
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Post by LJG on Jan 22, 2020 10:54:43 GMT
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm illustrating is that there is a bit more serious consideration for the owners than "Get Warnock in ASAP". I think I've illustrated the point pretty well over my last few posts and no one seems to be able to respond in any serious or properly considered manner to the points I've made just chucked personal remarks and yet more repetition of the normal foot stamping bollocks that gets posted on this place. What's your answer to my question by the way? Warnock comes in and we're flying. Ben is ready to come back and ... ? Then BG gets to work as No2 to one of the most experienced managers in the game until the summer. And if that doesn't suit BG?
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Post by aghast on Jan 22, 2020 11:06:21 GMT
Then BG gets to work as no2 to one of the most experienced managers in the game until the summer. And if that doesn't suit BG? Well I would have thought he might welcome a gentle return to management. I hope it all turns out well for him and his family, but even so, it's been a harrowing episode, I imagine, and I doubt if he'll be fully focused. In this hypocritical situation he can return to his job in the knowledge that Warnock is only on a short term contract. Why wouldn't BG want that? Do you think he expects the club to drift aimlessly until his return? Of course he doesn't. He must have expected the club would take some action. And you haven't answered my question about what we should do if Maher is a surprising rip-roaring success.
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Post by Rod1883 on Jan 22, 2020 11:08:28 GMT
Many have responded to your stuck record LJG with reasoned arguments on how a fixed term arrangement could suit everyone in this difficult situation for all concerned. You don't agree so that's fine, but stop saying no-one has answered because we have. You don't agree with me, and I don't agree with you - as I said before let's leave it like that. Gas365 is probably right, sadly. Nothing will happen and we will find ourselves deeper in trouble in six, seven, eight games time with the transfer window closed and time to do anything about it running out. You actually haven't answered my question. You responded to the post but didn't answer the question. You kept repeating the same thing but didn't respond to what I'd asked. Then you started the bitchy comments. Bitchy comments? Pot and Kettle (not Newton Abbott's) there I think. Where was I bitchy? I've simply pointed out that you won't accept any reasoned argument that has been made and seem to think that your extremely unlikely hypothetical situation of someone coming in and getting us promoted and then being either upset when BG comes back, or the new messiah being kept on resulting in BG being sacked against employment law are the only possible outcomes of an interim appointment.
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Post by LJG on Jan 22, 2020 11:19:08 GMT
And if that doesn't suit BG? Well I would have thought he might welcome a gentle return to management. I hope it all turns out well for him and his family, but even so, it's been a harrowing episode, I imagine, and I doubt if he'll be fully focused. In this hypocritical situation he can return to his job in the knowledge that Warnock is only on a short term contract. Why wouldn't BG want that? Do you think he expects the club to drift aimlessly until his return? Of course he doesn't. He must have expected the club would take some action. And you haven't answered my question about what we should do if Maher is a surprising rip-roaring success. If Maher is a success he continues to be part of the set up and all to the good. We can continue to draw on whatever made him successful. We can't speculate on what BG would welcome or not. He might be determined to jump right back in, who knows?
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Post by South Stand Ultra on Jan 22, 2020 11:23:41 GMT
Apparently we haven't got a pot to pish in, yet people want us to employ two managers...
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Post by LJG on Jan 22, 2020 11:23:58 GMT
You actually haven't answered my question. You responded to the post but didn't answer the question. You kept repeating the same thing but didn't respond to what I'd asked. Then you started the bitchy comments. Bitchy comments? Pot and Kettle (not Newton Abbott's) there I think. Where was I bitchy? I've simply pointed out that you won't accept any reasoned argument that has been made and seem to think that your extremely unlikely hypothetical situation of someone coming in and getting us promoted and then being either upset when BG comes back, or the new messiah being kept on resulting in BG being sacked against employment law are the only possible outcomes of an interim appointment. OK we've got a bit het up unnecessarily so I'll say sorry for any misunderstanding thus far and let's start again if cool with you? I agree we would be silly to let the situation drag on indefinitely. I think it's too soon to do anything about it. I agree getting Warnock in would be interesting and exciting. Do you agree that doing something like that has a. potential reputational risks and b. potential legal risks for the club that would make such a decision both difficult and one to take considered advice on?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2020 11:36:22 GMT
Well I would have thought he might welcome a gentle return to management. I hope it all turns out well for him and his family, but even so, it's been a harrowing episode, I imagine, and I doubt if he'll be fully focused. In this hypocritical situation he can return to his job in the knowledge that Warnock is only on a short term contract. Why wouldn't BG want that? Do you think he expects the club to drift aimlessly until his return? Of course he doesn't. He must have expected the club would take some action. And you haven't answered my question about what we should do if Maher is a surprising rip-roaring success. If Maher is a success he continues to be part of the set up and all to the good. We can continue to draw on whatever made him successful. We can't speculate on what BG would welcome or not. He might be determined to jump right back in, who knows? In the spirit of hypotheticals though- what happens if the club does not win a game from now until mid February (a realistic possibility given we can’t stop conceding whilst not being able to score) and BG is still absent but communicating by phone daily. What does the club do? Continue muddling on and accept potential relegation as a consequence of a situation outside of it’s control, simply because there is a question of what happens if and when BG decides he wants to come back? I can’t see that going down well with fans at all and crowds will be likely to dwindle.
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Post by LJG on Jan 22, 2020 11:40:23 GMT
If Maher is a success he continues to be part of the set up and all to the good. We can continue to draw on whatever made him successful. We can't speculate on what BG would welcome or not. He might be determined to jump right back in, who knows? In the spirit of hypotheticals though- what happens if the club does not win a game from now until mid February (a realistic possibility given we can’t stop conceding whilst not being able to score) and BG is still absent but communicating by phone daily. What does the club do? Continue muddling on and accept potential relegation as a consequence of a situation outside of it’s control, simply because there is a question of what happens if and when BG decides he wants to come back? I can’t see that going down well with fans at all and crowds will be likely to dwindle. No, I agree it cannot be an indefinite situation but less than 2 weeks in is not the time to act in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2020 11:51:53 GMT
In the spirit of hypotheticals though- what happens if the club does not win a game from now until mid February (a realistic possibility given we can’t stop conceding whilst not being able to score) and BG is still absent but communicating by phone daily. What does the club do? Continue muddling on and accept potential relegation as a consequence of a situation outside of it’s control, simply because there is a question of what happens if and when BG decides he wants to come back? I can’t see that going down well with fans at all and crowds will be likely to dwindle. No, I agree it cannot be an indefinite situation but less than 2 weeks in is not the time to act in my opinion. Ah I see now! So you’re specifically coming from the timeframe angle. For me that would be reasonable in many other industries- football being so results orientated it’s debatable whether you can even wait a few weeks. For the record I believe Starnes said we would know more in the early part of this week. As nothing ostensibly appears to have changed one can only assume that we are looking at another game this weekend without the manager. If we were to beat Fleetwood I guess the situation becomes more “tenable”, if we lose on Saturday I can imagine then questions will be asked and there will be some pressure on the board to take some kind of action.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 22, 2020 11:53:17 GMT
Then BG gets to work as No2 to one of the most experienced managers in the game until the summer. And if that doesn't suit BG? Tough sh**. I'm sure he would understand that the football club has to protect itself and would appreciate that we have allowed him to take extended leave.
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Post by blueridge on Jan 22, 2020 11:59:52 GMT
I’m sure the club will have some idea as to how long the situation with BG is likely to last, be it short or long term. If they feel (or know) it’s likely to run until at least the season end, I’m sure they will be reviewing the situation daily regarding any interim Manager support role that may be necessary.
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Post by horfield on Jan 22, 2020 12:01:07 GMT
The game on Saturday against Fleetwood is not going to be easy. Can't see BG being back for that one, but away at Bolton the following Tuesday is much more likely the game he will return for all being well with family of course, it's winnable.
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Post by LJG on Jan 22, 2020 12:04:47 GMT
And if that doesn't suit BG? Tough sh**. I'm sure he would understand that the football club has to protect itself and would appreciate that we have allowed him to take extended leave. But do you accept it could cause problems? More "embarrassment" that is the prevailing emotion on here? Ben kicks off, we're in a legal fight. Paying 2 x wages. Potentially getting rid of someone successful for someone who is yet to have success.
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