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Post by Raj Gas on Feb 9, 2020 13:12:36 GMT
When he signed all those players in the Janury window I expected to see a lot of them starting games, after all I assumed they can play this "new" way?
However looking at the team from yesterday again they weren't new players and begs the question can they play this "new" way? In particular that midfield 3 seem more like battlers than creative passers?
Previous managers recruited them but this new style is a very long way from DC or GC teams.
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Post by matealotblue on Feb 9, 2020 13:29:36 GMT
In answer to OP, guess the answer is no for this season. BUT. Maybe the bigger question is “What about next season?”. Does BG stay if this poor form continues? He is working off the fat of what we previously accumulated and at least 3 teams are in a worse position than us. Do we trust him in that situation to recruit/ reshape the team over the close season? We all start with a level playing field in August, carry on like this and we would be buried by Christmas. Would a new manager do better/ worse? Who could we realistically bring in anyway?
More questions than answers for me. I have no answer to any of them. Genuinely confused by events since Ipswich tbh.
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Post by madgas on Feb 9, 2020 14:02:34 GMT
You dont want to use numbers to prove why we wont go down- yet are happy to use them to suggest why would sack BG? I think it's fair to say BG was the wrong person to build on the work of GC. But many people are not sure how far that work could have taken us. I'm not saying don't use numbers I'm saying simply extrapolating the run rate of all those teams including us isn't a reliable predictor of if we're safe or not. As predictions are exactly that. BGs performance to date is cold hard fact. Two very different types of 'maths'. Just like a weather forecast could predict certain conditions and be wrong for tomorrow, with the Met Office and weather.com giving you different forecasts, you'd be hard pressed to argue over the fact it was 18*c somewhere or other yesterday. Hows the weather relevant? For curiosity I checked tomorrows forecast in Bristol. They were the same. Using the past to make predictions is reasonable. And I think in doing so- its reasonable to suggest were not going down.
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Post by lpgas on Feb 9, 2020 15:34:33 GMT
We will be saved by the fact only 3 go down, and Bolton are firm favourites
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 15:50:19 GMT
Unlikely to go down but crowds could drop below 6000 unless things improve then more cut-backs to be expected as losses mount. Every 1000 lost off the gate could have pay the wages of 2 or even possibly 3 league 1 players (unless you sign players on Kyle Bennett's wages)
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Post by singupgas on Feb 9, 2020 16:13:50 GMT
I must say I am bit unsure why more of the new players are not starting games. What did we bring in 7, I would like to see them all on the pitch at the same time.. and keep any of the "leaders" in the mix too.
There are a few players that haven't performed all season, some that haven't been great since BG came in.. don't see why we can't go with the new players to start at Tranmere personally.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Feb 9, 2020 16:20:55 GMT
I'm not saying don't use numbers I'm saying simply extrapolating the run rate of all those teams including us isn't a reliable predictor of if we're safe or not. As predictions are exactly that. BGs performance to date is cold hard fact. Two very different types of 'maths'. Just like a weather forecast could predict certain conditions and be wrong for tomorrow, with the Met Office and weather.com giving you different forecasts, you'd be hard pressed to argue over the fact it was 18*c somewhere or other yesterday. Hows the weather relevant? For curiosity I checked tomorrows forecast in Bristol. They were the same. Using the past to make predictions is reasonable. And I think in doing so- its reasonable to suggest were not going down. Because weather is the most common example of statistics being used to understand the past and predict the future. The weather forecast isn't as simple as 'well it was sunny last Wednesday so it'll be sunny next week' it takes into account things which are way more complex which I won't try and explain as I don't understand how they do it. I used to work in a job which was all about using data from the past to make predictions about the future for marketing data, so I understand much more than most the benefits and techniques of using data to predict the future. Using trend figures is interesting at best but not a reliable predictor which is why I'm saying we should not take the league positions of those in the bottom 3 for granted. If we tried to use that methodology to predict sales we'd have been laughed out of the office. There are individuals producing complex models for instance that take into account figures such as chances created, chances converted etc which have cropped up on here this season and last and they're fairly accurate but even the best predictions are subject to margin of error. Even a complex model like that could be considered good at 70% accuracy (from a statistical viewpoint). Like I said before though BGs performance to date is measured, observed fact and isn't debatable. Again, we're probably going to be fine, but we shouldn't be blasé about it because 1 team went bust, and 3 others are performing hopelessly.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Feb 9, 2020 16:22:10 GMT
I must say I am bit unsure why more of the new players are not starting games. What did we bring in 7, I would like to see them all on the pitch at the same time.. and keep any of the "leaders" in the mix too. There are a few players that haven't performed all season, some that haven't been great since BG came in.. don't see why we can't go with the new players to start at Tranmere personally. Aren't we limited on the number of loan players which can play? Even so, I'd agree wholeheartedly. We were signing players to maintain our playoff push so don't know what's gone wrong here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 16:59:17 GMT
Just for information for a couple of posters.
Its 4 loans = blackman,mitchell-lawson,ginelly and abraham.
And 3 permanents barrett,harries and daly.
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Post by socrates on Feb 9, 2020 17:00:48 GMT
And maximum of 5 loans in a matchday squad. Including subs.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Feb 9, 2020 17:05:57 GMT
Just for information for a couple of posters. Its 4 loans = blackman,mitchell-lawson,ginelly and abraham. And 3 permanents barrett,harries and daly. Thanks. With all the ins and outs in Jan (mainly focussed around loans) it has been hard to keep up at a busy time of the year in and outside of the world of rovers.
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Post by wilmslowgas on Feb 9, 2020 17:06:09 GMT
We are not going down this season thanks to the points accumulated under GC's managership. Also thanks to Bury and Bolton which has made relegation easier to avoid.
This season is a write-off unless the owner's ambition was simply to avoid relegation. That we will do. However, the results under BG have been lamentable and if the trend continues to the season end he must be realised. Alternatively, invest loads of cash into a squad capable of playing the game he desires. Unless one of the two courses of action are activated next season will be a disaster. The current squad of players are totally inadequate for the game BG wishes to play..
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Post by peterhooper57 on Feb 9, 2020 17:10:57 GMT
It is a possibllity we wii go down, I like BG, unfortunately he has no managerial experience, and Rovers have not won a game in 13 since he rolled into the MEM, and if we lose on Tuesday against a awful Tranmere team then l guess that is rock bottom. I just hope we don’t get relegated again, as that will horrendous, chin up. Utg
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Post by singupgas on Feb 9, 2020 17:28:45 GMT
Just for information for a couple of posters. Its 4 loans = blackman,mitchell-lawson,ginelly and abraham. And 3 permanents barrett,harries and daly. Thanks. With all the ins and outs in Jan (mainly focussed around loans) it has been hard to keep up at a busy time of the year in and outside of the world of rovers. So we could play all of our new players then?
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Post by worrelsterlingalbion on Feb 9, 2020 17:47:58 GMT
Thanks. With all the ins and outs in Jan (mainly focussed around loans) it has been hard to keep up at a busy time of the year in and outside of the world of rovers. So we could play all of our new players then? Theoretically yes but in reality I'm not sure how you get Ginnelly, Mitchell-Lawson, Daly, Abraham & Barrett into the same side unless you're leaving out JCH.
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Post by Icegas on Feb 9, 2020 18:40:22 GMT
Losing becomes a habit and the players will inevitably associate losing with Ben Garner. The longer we accept it, the more normalized it becomes. Very dangerous in any team, but in a team stacked with youngsters it is much worse. Its not about the damage we are doing this season, it's more about the damage we are potentially already doing to the next one. Agreed losing becomes a habit, and this often does carry over to a new season. The best we can hope for is an upturn in form as the players get more used to the BG style and the new players start to deliver too, and a safe mid table finish. Over the Summer recruitment of more players that can play the way BG wants is vital otherwise around Christmas we will be looking for another GC type boss to get us out of the mire Agreed. BG has walked into a situation where we have almost no chance of going down as Bolton,Southend and Tranmere are terrible and well behind us.If this was any other season we will be f**ked as where is our next win coming from? But he also walked into a club where we were 4th and had a real chance of the playoffs at least and since he has come in thats been flushed away. I understand he needs time,any manager does.He also wants to bring in his own style in with his own players.But we are in the result business and he needs to win 4/5 games between now and the seasons end to prove what he is doing is correct and is working/or can and will work longer term starting with next season. But if he doesnt then his position will need reviewing asap after the season and this form will 100% be carried on into the start of next season and we will go down!
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Post by pirate49 on Feb 9, 2020 18:54:21 GMT
At League 1 level I don't really get this 'bringing in a new style of play' thing. If you're at a higher level then you can expect talented players to adapt and change things around. At our level you work with what you've got, especially if it's done OK so far.Gradually you assess the team and tweak and develop as you go along.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Feb 9, 2020 19:41:41 GMT
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Feb 9, 2020 20:01:40 GMT
It also thinks we've already got enough points to stay up.
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Post by Windmill Hill Gas on Feb 10, 2020 7:45:28 GMT
But we've only got 15 games left to play, how can we possibly draw 16!
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