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Post by justin blue on Dec 3, 2020 11:47:18 GMT
How do you think a scout works then?. Do you think he recruits players he likes regardless of whether the manager wants them in his team?. I don't pretend to know how it works, but my theory is that the manager tells the Scout the sort of player he wants and the scout recruits accordingly. In Garner's defence though, I doubt he said "Tommy, I'm after someone young and f**king useless. In fact, build me a squad of them please" I very much doubt that too, but I'm sure he had some say, imo the biggest say as to whether they were signed. If that's not the case he should have walked long ago.
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Post by stevek192 on Dec 3, 2020 11:47:57 GMT
I think we will find that Tommy has provided some good p-layers - our problem is that too many of them are in the same position and have exactly the same qualities.Players who we signed who should be quality ie Ehmer,Baldwin are making poor errors and at the moment it seems every error they make ends up in our net. I very much like Tisdales interview and hope he can get it right preferably before we are adrift at the bottom.
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Post by gregsy on Dec 3, 2020 11:53:29 GMT
Don't think you can build a squad in the summer and then be able to do much to it 6 months down the line, and even if you could it would be a mega embarrassment.... 8 games before then anyway....
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Post by Westy on Dec 3, 2020 12:01:54 GMT
Teflon Tommy: bad recruitment is not the fault of the head of recruitment. No I can’t work that one out either. that's the bit I can't work out.even though garner had some input surely widdrington had the final say.asked the question before was garner a widdrington signing and the reason he backed him so much?just can't see any football guy allowing such a unbalanced squad to start a season when it was all to obvious to the fan base that there were gaping holes in certain positions Maybe this explains the promotion? To stop stuff like this in n future? Maybe contractually Garner had the final say on these matters and after his departure a reshuffle adds something to this process we needed to shore up?
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Post by althepirate on Dec 3, 2020 12:02:40 GMT
I think we will find that Tommy has provided some good p-layers - our problem is that too many of them are in the same position and have exactly the same qualities.Players who we signed who should be quality ie Ehmer,Baldwin are making poor errors and at the moment it seems every error they make ends up in our net. I very much like Tisdales interview and hope he can get it right preferably before we are adrift at the bottom. Yes I agree with that, but did BG say to Tommy 'Right I want 14 midfielders and hardly any strikers' to which Tommy replied 'Ok we'll do that then' doesnt seem to me a promotion to the board is justified here.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 12:09:31 GMT
At the time I thought the recruitment was good apart from collecting left backs and the failure to sign an experienced striker. The experienced players are letting us down as much as the youngsters and there seems to be very little leadership in the team. It will need more than one transfer window to sort this out and with so many on long contracts getting movement will not be easy.
A fit Little would certainly help but that seems unlikely and signing a striker in January is notoriously difficult.
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Post by horfield on Dec 3, 2020 12:09:52 GMT
I think Garner only had a say in three signings, Daly, Martinez, Koiki the only three he knew anything about. The rest were dumped on him by Widdrington and he had to go along with it. Don't blame the builder, blame the architects they draw up the plans.
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Post by TAGas on Dec 3, 2020 12:11:22 GMT
I think we will find that Tommy has provided some good p-layers - our problem is that too many of them are in the same position and have exactly the same qualities.Players who we signed who should be quality ie Ehmer,Baldwin are making poor errors and at the moment it seems every error they make ends up in our net. I very much like Tisdales interview and hope he can get it right preferably before we are adrift at the bottom. Yes I agree with that, but did BG say to Tommy 'Right I want 14 midfielders and hardly any strikers' to which Tommy replied 'Ok we'll do that then' doesnt seem to me a promotion to the board is justified here. Imo I think that is what happened. If BG wanted 14 midfielders and hardly any strikers, but justified why he wants that then TW did his job and got BG those types of players. BG was the manager so it was his decision. But of course we don't know this.
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Post by stevek192 on Dec 3, 2020 12:11:29 GMT
althepirate- I would agree with you and think the big problem is that PROVEN Strikers cost money!! tommy could probably go out and find lots of strikers that would improve us if his budget was say 400,000 or even 200,000.The final say though does come down to the Manager and BG must take the blame for providing us with a totally unbalanced squad.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 12:13:36 GMT
The thing is though, if our current league position is nothing to do with the head of recruitment then what metrics do you use to define if the bloke is doing a good job? It sounds to me like fans would just employ an HOR and when the manager gets the team relegated just shrug and say well it’s not his fault- he just picked 20 players out of a hat and the manager picked the wrong 11 . You’ve effectively got a guy who has a job for life because he can’t be judged on his scouting because he just falls back on “well the manager should have picked the other guy!”. Makes no sense to me.
For me, the league position is the product of the input of the person who brought the players to the club, the person who trained them during the week and the person who prepared them on match day. It’s a team game and a team effort on and off the pitch, not just the bloke who sat in the manager’s seat on Saturday afternoon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 12:16:48 GMT
I think Garner only had a say in three signings, Daly, Martinez, Koiki the only three he knew anything about. The rest were dumped on him by Widdrington and he had to go along with it. Don't blame the builder, blame the architects they draw up the plans. Pirate seemed to think Abraham was a Widdrington signing and a player who we had been tracking for a while. What’s Abraham up to now...? I think there is a lot of assumption that all the players were Garner players and I doubt that’s entirely the case.
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Post by althepirate on Dec 3, 2020 12:18:11 GMT
I think Garner only had a say in three signings, Daly, Martinez, Koiki the only three he knew anything about. The rest were dumped on him by Widdrington and he had to go along with it. Don't blame the builder, blame the architects they draw up the plans. It's all very interesting
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Post by daniel300380 on Dec 3, 2020 12:33:23 GMT
I think Garner only had a say in three signings, Daly, Martinez, Koiki the only three he knew anything about. The rest were dumped on him by Widdrington and he had to go along with it. Don't blame the builder, blame the architects they draw up the plans. Yet he spoke about the majority of the rest when he signed them and their qualities etc. He mentioned knowing a few for years and watching them in the past etc.
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Post by alanrg on Dec 3, 2020 12:34:37 GMT
It will be interesting 2 c which players leave in January the loan players I would think plus the likes of Kelly and Barrett going out on loan
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Post by bluebiro on Dec 3, 2020 12:45:30 GMT
I think Garner only had a say in three signings, Daly, Martinez, Koiki the only three he knew anything about. The rest were dumped on him by Widdrington and he had to go along with it. Don't blame the builder, blame the architects they draw up the plans. Yet he spoke about the majority of the rest when he signed them and their qualities etc. He mentioned knowing a few for years and watching them in the past etc. cant imagine him saying I know.fk all about them Never heard of them or what they are good at.bit like when sign a player and he says how bristol is a big club with a passionate support and hostile atmosphere
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Dec 3, 2020 12:52:34 GMT
Teflon Tommy: bad recruitment is not the fault of the head of recruitment. No I can’t work that one out either. that's the bit I can't work out.even though garner had some input surely widdrington had the final say.asked the question before was garner a widdrington signing and the reason he backed him so much?just can't see any football guy allowing such a unbalanced squad to start a season when it was all to obvious to the fan base that there were gaping holes in certain positions Surely Garner said "I want this type of player for this position with these attributes, what have you got on your list?". If not then Garner may as well not have been here if Widdrington is building the squad.
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Post by lpgas1 on Dec 3, 2020 12:58:38 GMT
Wael and Starmer thought they could change the team in one summer, and promised exciting, on the floor football. To do that takes about 5 years of gradually changing your team so that you dont get yourselves in to trouble.
Wonder if the poject will survive in League 2? or are we the next Southend?
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Post by Rod1883 on Dec 3, 2020 12:59:19 GMT
that's the bit I can't work out.even though garner had some input surely widdrington had the final say.asked the question before was garner a widdrington signing and the reason he backed him so much?just can't see any football guy allowing such a unbalanced squad to start a season when it was all to obvious to the fan base that there were gaping holes in certain positions Surely Garner said "I want this type of player for this position with these attributes, what have you got on your list?". If not then Garner may as well not have been here if Widdrington is building the squad. That's effectively what I said on the match thread last night - " TW can't be completely blameless it's true, but presumably he recruited to a specification given to him by BG and GC previously.
Now that TW is Director of Football I would think he has more say in the direction and type of player, rather than just recruiting the best of the type specified by the Manager?"
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 13:07:58 GMT
Surely Garner said "I want this type of player for this position with these attributes, what have you got on your list?". If not then Garner may as well not have been here if Widdrington is building the squad. That's effectively what I said on the match thread last night - " TW can't be completely blameless it's true, but presumably he recruited to a specification given to him by BG and GC previously.
Now that TW is Director of Football I would think he has more say in the direction and type of player, rather than just recruiting the best of the type specified by the Manager?" But that’s just it- if your wording is accurate and he has recruited the best of a type, what does that say because we aren’t really best at anything apart from not winning?
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Post by justin blue on Dec 3, 2020 13:11:39 GMT
I think Garner only had a say in three signings, Daly, Martinez, Koiki the only three he knew anything about. The rest were dumped on him by Widdrington and he had to go along with it. Don't blame the builder, blame the architects they draw up the plans. The key word in the above statement is think. You think that is what happened or didn't, but you don't know and you have no evidence.
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