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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2020 21:44:45 GMT
Meanwhile in the real world Hancock suggested earlier today that Tier 4 could now remain in place until the spring. Looking back now, the summer just gone was relatively free with deaths and cases dropping low in June/July and restrictions relaxed compared to now. You’d like to think by summer 2021 we’d be in a better situation than a year previously. For sure. It's a case of riding out the winter months when the majority of the vulnerable aren't vaccinated.
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 20, 2020 22:34:43 GMT
Meanwhile in the real world Hancock suggested earlier today that Tier 4 could now remain in place until the spring. Sorry to rain on the negativity parade Topper. Can you share Hancock's quote from today? The reality is that the situation will become far more manageable and impact considerably less beyond the inevitable difficult start to the year. What's the point, you won't believe it anyway in your make believe world.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2020 22:56:59 GMT
Sorry to rain on the negativity parade Topper. Can you share Hancock's quote from today? The reality is that the situation will become far more manageable and impact considerably less beyond the inevitable difficult start to the year. What's the point, you won't believe it anyway in your make believe world. My understanding was Hancock speculated the restrictions may last a 'couple' of months which was interpreted by Sky as being spring. What's make believe about stating the obvious? The vaccination of the vulnerable (60+ and existing conditions) will make a significant difference in this battle. The situation will improve dramatically by spring should vaccination projections be accurate. Restrictions will get lifted as the vulnerable get protected and lockdowns will be a thing of the past from Spring at the latest.
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Post by baggins on Dec 21, 2020 6:30:40 GMT
What's the point, you won't believe it anyway in your make believe world. My understanding was Hancock speculated the restrictions may last a 'couple' of months which was interpreted by Sky as being spring. What's make believe about stating the obvious? The vaccination of the vulnerable (60+ and existing conditions) will make a significant difference in this battle. The situation will improve dramatically by spring should vaccination projections be accurate. Restrictions will get lifted as the vulnerable get protected and lockdowns will be a thing of the past from Spring at the latest. That's assuming we can get the vaccine delivered due to travel restrictions.
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 21, 2020 6:39:26 GMT
What's the point, you won't believe it anyway in your make believe world. My understanding was Hancock speculated the restrictions may last a 'couple' of months which was interpreted by Sky as being spring. What's make believe about stating the obvious? The vaccination of the vulnerable (60+ and existing conditions) will make a significant difference in this battle. The situation will improve dramatically by spring should vaccination projections be accurate. Restrictions will get lifted as the vulnerable get protected and lockdowns will be a thing of the past from Spring at the latest. The spring is a few months "beyond January" we all hope by then life in the UK may start returning to some normality, although that assumes we can get sufficient supplies of vaccines and it actually works, if Saturday's latest "mutant" developments let's hope it does.
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Post by gulfofaden on Dec 21, 2020 7:43:56 GMT
We will not be getting back to normality, ever. Not in our lifetimes.
People won’t be working at the office and at physical industry as much. Retail will barely exist and we will have a class of around 20% of the workforce who aren’t digitally skilled who will have to have some form of UBI, much like the mining communities post 80s. Air travel will become a privilege of the wealthy. Considering we’ve just had house arrest and law made via press conference, say goodbye to due process.
On the plus side, we will likely work shorter hours, have more time for family, have less commuting and a cleaner environment.
The changes this pandemic has brought could be immensely beneficial or fairly horrific. Thus far, it’s enriched the richest people on earth (silicon valley tech) and impoverished small businesses.
Plus the debt, this will be hanging on our neck probably until your children’s children are adults.
Whatever the weather, we will never be going back to “normal”
This has provided too opportune for a number of interested parties.
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Marshy
Proper Gas
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Post by Marshy on Dec 21, 2020 7:51:02 GMT
We will not be getting back to normality, ever. Not in our lifetimes. People won’t be working at the office and at physical industry as much. Retail will barely exist and we will have a class of around 20% of the workforce who aren’t digitally skilled who will have to have some form of UBI, much like the mining communities post 80s. Air travel will become a privilege of the wealthy. Considering we’ve just had house arrest and law made via press conference, say goodbye to due process. On the plus side, we will likely work shorter hours, have more time for family, have less commuting and a cleaner environment. The changes this pandemic has brought could be immensely beneficial or fairly horrific. Thus far, it’s enriched the richest people on earth (silicon valley tech) and impoverished small businesses. Plus the debt, this will be hanging on our neck probably until your children’s children are adults. Whatever the weather, we will never be going back to “normal” This has provided too opportune for a number of interested parties. Blimey, thanks Nostradamus.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 7:58:24 GMT
We will not be getting back to normality, ever. Not in our lifetimes. People won’t be working at the office and at physical industry as much. Retail will barely exist and we will have a class of around 20% of the workforce who aren’t digitally skilled who will have to have some form of UBI, much like the mining communities post 80s. Air travel will become a privilege of the wealthy. Considering we’ve just had house arrest and law made via press conference, say goodbye to due process. On the plus side, we will likely work shorter hours, have more time for family, have less commuting and a cleaner environment. The changes this pandemic has brought could be immensely beneficial or fairly horrific. Thus far, it’s enriched the richest people on earth (silicon valley tech) and impoverished small businesses. Plus the debt, this will be hanging on our neck probably until your children’s children are adults. Whatever the weather, we will never be going back to “normal” This has provided too opportune for a number of interested parties. I don't care. I'm on prozac.
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Dec 21, 2020 8:14:53 GMT
We will not be getting back to normality, ever. Not in our lifetimes. People won’t be working at the office and at physical industry as much. Retail will barely exist and we will have a class of around 20% of the workforce who aren’t digitally skilled who will have to have some form of UBI, much like the mining communities post 80s. Air travel will become a privilege of the wealthy. Considering we’ve just had house arrest and law made via press conference, say goodbye to due process. On the plus side, we will likely work shorter hours, have more time for family, have less commuting and a cleaner environment. The changes this pandemic has brought could be immensely beneficial or fairly horrific. Thus far, it’s enriched the richest people on earth (silicon valley tech) and impoverished small businesses. Plus the debt, this will be hanging on our neck probably until your children’s children are adults. Whatever the weather, we will never be going back to “normal” This has provided too opportune for a number of interested parties. Should I cancel my all inclusive holiday in Benidorm booked for 2023 then?
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Post by Gasshole on Dec 21, 2020 9:03:31 GMT
We will not be getting back to normality, ever. Not in our lifetimes. People won’t be working at the office and at physical industry as much. Retail will barely exist and we will have a class of around 20% of the workforce who aren’t digitally skilled who will have to have some form of UBI, much like the mining communities post 80s. Air travel will become a privilege of the wealthy. Considering we’ve just had house arrest and law made via press conference, say goodbye to due process. On the plus side, we will likely work shorter hours, have more time for family, have less commuting and a cleaner environment. The changes this pandemic has brought could be immensely beneficial or fairly horrific. Thus far, it’s enriched the richest people on earth (silicon valley tech) and impoverished small businesses. Plus the debt, this will be hanging on our neck probably until your children’s children are adults. Whatever the weather, we will never be going back to “normal” This has provided too opportune for a number of interested parties. I’ve got a nice bottle of Meths I’ve been saving for a special occasion. Fck it, I might as well crack it open now.
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Post by bluebiro on Dec 21, 2020 9:14:41 GMT
We will not be getting back to normality, ever. Not in our lifetimes. People won’t be working at the office and at physical industry as much. Retail will barely exist and we will have a class of around 20% of the workforce who aren’t digitally skilled who will have to have some form of UBI, much like the mining communities post 80s. Air travel will become a privilege of the wealthy. Considering we’ve just had house arrest and law made via press conference, say goodbye to due process. On the plus side, we will likely work shorter hours, have more time for family, have less commuting and a cleaner environment. The changes this pandemic has brought could be immensely beneficial or fairly horrific. Thus far, it’s enriched the richest people on earth (silicon valley tech) and impoverished small businesses. Plus the debt, this will be hanging on our neck probably until your children’s children are adults. Whatever the weather, we will never be going back to “normal” This has provided too opportune for a number of interested parties. but will we have a new stadium?
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Post by gasandelectricity on Dec 21, 2020 9:52:12 GMT
We will not be getting back to normality, ever. Not in our lifetimes. People won’t be working at the office and at physical industry as much. Retail will barely exist and we will have a class of around 20% of the workforce who aren’t digitally skilled who will have to have some form of UBI, much like the mining communities post 80s. Air travel will become a privilege of the wealthy. Considering we’ve just had house arrest and law made via press conference, say goodbye to due process. On the plus side, we will likely work shorter hours, have more time for family, have less commuting and a cleaner environment. The changes this pandemic has brought could be immensely beneficial or fairly horrific. Thus far, it’s enriched the richest people on earth (silicon valley tech) and impoverished small businesses. Plus the debt, this will be hanging on our neck probably until your children’s children are adults. Whatever the weather, we will never be going back to “normal” This has provided too opportune for a number of interested parties. If by normal you mean 2019 world then no, I think some of your predictions are right. There has been a complete shift in the way we work (at least in offices), our mindset towards locality and how that translates to our attitudes towards sustainability. You’re right that people won’t be going back to offices in their droves. I used to think I was much less productive at home but after some adaptation the idea of a almost fully remote job appeals significantly, and I really don’t want to go back into offices and I know many who feel that way too.So that does have impacts on our city centres as they’re kitted out to cater for those office workers who won’t get going back. However retail is not dead. The majority of big companies going bust are going bust because they were on that trajectory anyway. Arcadia and Debenhams have been in trouble for years for instance. For a lot of retailers they’ve thrived - homeware and DIY stores for instance. Home electronics have probably had a good year too. Some of these shops have had their shelves ripped dry. Not necessarily because of supply chain issues either. There’s been a shift in some of the changes we would see but the high street retailers who can adapt to fight the online retailers will adapt and those who can’t will falter just the same way they did in 2019. This is nothing new. It’s been a difficult year for pubs and restaurants but a lot of us are charged up and ready to go when it is safe to do so again, particularly after social distancing begins to get wound down. There will probably be a more local feel to it and some of the more rural pubs who were struggling before might benefit. Those that close down, will undoubtedly re-emerge under new ownership (I really do feel for the human impact here though). Again, some of this will be bought forward changes that would have happened anyway - pubs were closing in their droves already. As for holidays I think many will think twice as to if they want to go abroad like they did before or if they want a Uk based holiday (many of us have rediscovered them this year). However again people will be itching for a proper holiday. New airlines will pop up in their place of those who have disappeared. I think the big change will be how people consider the implications of their actions when they jump on a plane. Civil liberties - I think there will be revolt if the changes we’ve seen this year to manage the crisis aren’t revoked. I don’t like protesting really - I don’t see the point and I think it often is more damaging to the cause than helpful but I’d be out on the streets if they don’t change things back. A lot of it is only temporary legislation anyway.
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Post by gulfofaden on Dec 21, 2020 10:12:26 GMT
We will not be getting back to normality, ever. Not in our lifetimes. People won’t be working at the office and at physical industry as much. Retail will barely exist and we will have a class of around 20% of the workforce who aren’t digitally skilled who will have to have some form of UBI, much like the mining communities post 80s. Air travel will become a privilege of the wealthy. Considering we’ve just had house arrest and law made via press conference, say goodbye to due process. On the plus side, we will likely work shorter hours, have more time for family, have less commuting and a cleaner environment. The changes this pandemic has brought could be immensely beneficial or fairly horrific. Thus far, it’s enriched the richest people on earth (silicon valley tech) and impoverished small businesses. Plus the debt, this will be hanging on our neck probably until your children’s children are adults. Whatever the weather, we will never be going back to “normal” This has provided too opportune for a number of interested parties. If by normal you mean 2019 world then no, I think some of your predictions are right. There has been a complete shift in the way we work (at least in offices), our mindset towards locality and how that translates to our attitudes towards sustainability. You’re right that people won’t be going back to offices in their droves. I used to think I was much less productive at home but after some adaptation the idea of a almost fully remote job appeals significantly, and I really don’t want to go back into offices and I know many who feel that way too.So that does have impacts on our city centres as they’re kitted out to cater for those office workers who won’t get going back. However retail is not dead. The majority of big companies going bust are going bust because they were on that trajectory anyway. Arcadia and Debenhams have been in trouble for years for instance. For a lot of retailers they’ve thrived - homeware and DIY stores for instance. Home electronics have probably had a good year too. Some of these shops have had their shelves ripped dry. Not necessarily because of supply chain issues either. There’s been a shift in some of the changes we would see but the high street retailers who can adapt to fight the online retailers will adapt and those who can’t will falter just the same way they did in 2019. This is nothing new. It’s been a difficult year for pubs and restaurants but a lot of us are charged up and ready to go when it is safe to do so again, particularly after social distancing begins to get wound down. There will probably be a more local feel to it and some of the more rural pubs who were struggling before might benefit. Those that close down, will undoubtedly re-emerge under new ownership (I really do feel for the human impact here though). Again, some of this will be bought forward changes that would have happened anyway - pubs were closing in their droves already. As for holidays I think many will think twice as to if they want to go abroad like they did before or if they want a Uk based holiday (many of us have rediscovered them this year). However again people will be itching for a proper holiday. New airlines will pop up in their place of those who have disappeared. I think the big change will be how people consider the implications of their actions when they jump on a plane. Civil liberties - I think there will be revolt if the changes we’ve seen this year to manage the crisis aren’t revoked. I don’t like protesting really - I don’t see the point and I think it often is more damaging to the cause than helpful but I’d be out on the streets if they don’t change things back. A lot of it is only temporary legislation anyway. I hope you’re right with civil liberties. Don’t forget a lot of people have a Stockholm syndrome for control. It’s how despotic regimes happen, otherwise they wouldn’t be possible. Working from home brings serious benefits to families and a daily commute is a fairly pointless endeavour. The only issue is the divide between work and home will be gone, and people will get used to home surveillance. You’ll get reports of crimes solved by a work monitoring camera and the usual pundits will chime in “shouldn’t all homes be monitored? If it saves one life etc” Not really, but this was how CCTV got in the door, but it’s one of a few 1984 possibilities I’ve been mulling. Most likely it will be a huge boost for everyone long term and free up valuable productivity for society. Allow elderly relatives to be more easily cared for, children to have better care without parents fighting through traffic. As for traffic, this is the big one. I think one in five male jobs in the U.K. are essentially driving jobs. Within 10 years this will be automated. As will a large amount of non-creative industry. Covid has accelerated this. We may be reaching the point many dreamed of in the 50s. We all go to 3 day weeks. More leisure time, and we will say to our grandchildren about how we had to work 5 or 6 days to make ends meet, as our grandparents told us of life before washing machines and dishwashers. Or, we could end up with a dispossessed minority without the requisite skills, without university education and unable to find meaningful work, acting as a quasi slave class for the middle classes who do. Or disaffected, angry sink estates full of drugs and crime. Eg a lot of the old industrial places in U.K. after industry left. This is why I say this can go 2 ways. It could be amazing. It could also go very, very wrong. Digitalisation is real, it does not replace jobs at the rate it cuts them. All your online this and that, your help functions making prices lower do so by removing work and thereby fixed costs to businesses. Scale is better. As for sustainability, most industries which have this tag line are not sustainable in the slightest. At some point, when things have been scaled by digitalisation and automation, and cost base cut( eventually you end up with no consumer to sell to, because removing the worker is removing a consumer. Regardless of the hope, workforces structural unemployment doesn’t resolve, you can’t train lorry drivers to be social media influencers and programmers. All I’m saying is we have some huge issues ahead and we need to be very, very careful what we wish for.
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Post by xenongas on Dec 21, 2020 10:37:37 GMT
If by normal you mean 2019 world then no, I think some of your predictions are right. There has been a complete shift in the way we work (at least in offices), our mindset towards locality and how that translates to our attitudes towards sustainability. You’re right that people won’t be going back to offices in their droves. I used to think I was much less productive at home but after some adaptation the idea of a almost fully remote job appeals significantly, and I really don’t want to go back into offices and I know many who feel that way too.So that does have impacts on our city centres as they’re kitted out to cater for those office workers who won’t get going back. However retail is not dead. The majority of big companies going bust are going bust because they were on that trajectory anyway. Arcadia and Debenhams have been in trouble for years for instance. For a lot of retailers they’ve thrived - homeware and DIY stores for instance. Home electronics have probably had a good year too. Some of these shops have had their shelves ripped dry. Not necessarily because of supply chain issues either. There’s been a shift in some of the changes we would see but the high street retailers who can adapt to fight the online retailers will adapt and those who can’t will falter just the same way they did in 2019. This is nothing new. It’s been a difficult year for pubs and restaurants but a lot of us are charged up and ready to go when it is safe to do so again, particularly after social distancing begins to get wound down. There will probably be a more local feel to it and some of the more rural pubs who were struggling before might benefit. Those that close down, will undoubtedly re-emerge under new ownership (I really do feel for the human impact here though). Again, some of this will be bought forward changes that would have happened anyway - pubs were closing in their droves already. As for holidays I think many will think twice as to if they want to go abroad like they did before or if they want a Uk based holiday (many of us have rediscovered them this year). However again people will be itching for a proper holiday. New airlines will pop up in their place of those who have disappeared. I think the big change will be how people consider the implications of their actions when they jump on a plane. Civil liberties - I think there will be revolt if the changes we’ve seen this year to manage the crisis aren’t revoked. I don’t like protesting really - I don’t see the point and I think it often is more damaging to the cause than helpful but I’d be out on the streets if they don’t change things back. A lot of it is only temporary legislation anyway. I hope you’re right with civil liberties. Don’t forget a lot of people have a Stockholm syndrome for control. It’s how despotic regimes happen, otherwise they wouldn’t be possible. Working from home brings serious benefits to families and a daily commute is a fairly pointless endeavour. The only issue is the divide between work and home will be gone, and people will get used to home surveillance. You’ll get reports of crimes solved by a work monitoring camera and the usual pundits will chime in “shouldn’t all homes be monitored? If it saves one life etc” Not really, but this was how CCTV got in the door, but it’s one of a few 1984 possibilities I’ve been mulling. Most likely it will be a huge boost for everyone long term and free up valuable productivity for society. Allow elderly relatives to be more easily cared for, children to have better care without parents fighting through traffic. As for traffic, this is the big one. I think one in five male jobs in the U.K. are essentially driving jobs. Within 10 years this will be automated. As will a large amount of non-creative industry. Covid has accelerated this. We may be reaching the point many dreamed of in the 50s. We all go to 3 day weeks. More leisure time, and we will say to our grandchildren about how we had to work 5 or 6 days to make ends meet, as our grandparents told us of life before washing machines and dishwashers. Or, we could end up with a dispossessed minority without the requisite skills, without university education and unable to find meaningful work, acting as a quasi slave class for the middle classes who do. Or disaffected, angry sink estates full of drugs and crime. Eg a lot of the old industrial places in U.K. after industry left. This is why I say this can go 2 ways. It could be amazing. It could also go very, very wrong. Digitalisation is real, it does not replace jobs at the rate it cuts them. All your online this and that, your help functions making prices lower do so by removing work and thereby fixed costs to businesses. Scale is better. As for sustainability, most industries which have this tag line are not sustainable in the slightest. At some point, when things have been scaled by digitalisation and automation, and cost base cut( eventually you end up with no consumer to sell to, because removing the worker is removing a consumer. Regardless of the hope, workforces structural unemployment doesn’t resolve, you can’t train lorry drivers to be social media influencers and programmers. All I’m saying is we have some huge issues ahead and we need to be very, very careful what we wish for.
Maybe ease off the dystopian novels over Christmas mate.
There's always a third way as nothing is ever black and white. The way where there will be some bad and some good to come out of all this but I doubt there will be a cataclysm.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 10:43:16 GMT
We will not be getting back to normality, ever. Not in our lifetimes. People won’t be working at the office and at physical industry as much. Retail will barely exist and we will have a class of around 20% of the workforce who aren’t digitally skilled who will have to have some form of UBI, much like the mining communities post 80s. Air travel will become a privilege of the wealthy. Considering we’ve just had house arrest and law made via press conference, say goodbye to due process. On the plus side, we will likely work shorter hours, have more time for family, have less commuting and a cleaner environment. The changes this pandemic has brought could be immensely beneficial or fairly horrific. Thus far, it’s enriched the richest people on earth (silicon valley tech) and impoverished small businesses. Plus the debt, this will be hanging on our neck probably until your children’s children are adults. Whatever the weather, we will never be going back to “normal” This has provided too opportune for a number of interested parties. You forgot to mention the micro-chips they've put into the vaccines.
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Marshy
Proper Gas
Posts: 14,129
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Post by Marshy on Dec 21, 2020 10:58:36 GMT
We will not be getting back to normality, ever. Not in our lifetimes. People won’t be working at the office and at physical industry as much. Retail will barely exist and we will have a class of around 20% of the workforce who aren’t digitally skilled who will have to have some form of UBI, much like the mining communities post 80s. Air travel will become a privilege of the wealthy. Considering we’ve just had house arrest and law made via press conference, say goodbye to due process. On the plus side, we will likely work shorter hours, have more time for family, have less commuting and a cleaner environment. The changes this pandemic has brought could be immensely beneficial or fairly horrific. Thus far, it’s enriched the richest people on earth (silicon valley tech) and impoverished small businesses. Plus the debt, this will be hanging on our neck probably until your children’s children are adults. Whatever the weather, we will never be going back to “normal” This has provided too opportune for a number of interested parties. You forgot to mention the micro-chips they've put into the vaccines. Yeah and they would have got away it, if it wasn’t for those pesky kids!
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Post by yaz on Dec 23, 2020 9:57:14 GMT
We will not be getting back to normality, ever. Not in our lifetimes. People won’t be working at the office and at physical industry as much. Retail will barely exist and we will have a class of around 20% of the workforce who aren’t digitally skilled who will have to have some form of UBI, much like the mining communities post 80s. Air travel will become a privilege of the wealthy. Considering we’ve just had house arrest and law made via press conference, say goodbye to due process. On the plus side, we will likely work shorter hours, have more time for family, have less commuting and a cleaner environment. The changes this pandemic has brought could be immensely beneficial or fairly horrific. Thus far, it’s enriched the richest people on earth (silicon valley tech) and impoverished small businesses. Plus the debt, this will be hanging on our neck probably until your children’s children are adults. Whatever the weather, we will never be going back to “normal” This has provided too opportune for a number of interested parties. I don't care. I'm on prozac. Better make sure you have stocked up then as supplies will only be made available to those that need it most and mates?
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Post by amgas on Dec 23, 2020 20:07:11 GMT
Unfortunately once many employers work out they don't need you in the office it is a small step to moving your job to a lower cost offshore location. Many who are enjoying the new found freedom of working from home may find themselves with no work in the long term. Happened in the IT industry already.
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Post by Gasshole on Dec 23, 2020 20:27:52 GMT
Unfortunately once many employers work out they don't need you in the office it is a small step to moving your job to a lower cost offshore location. Many who are enjoying the new found freedom of working from home may find themselves with no work in the long term. Happened in the IT industry already. True dat. But i am fluent in Hindi, and happy to work for a handful of rice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 21:43:26 GMT
Unfortunately once many employers work out they don't need you in the office it is a small step to moving your job to a lower cost offshore location. Many who are enjoying the new found freedom of working from home may find themselves with no work in the long term. Happened in the IT industry already. Absolutely. I find it incredible how so many seemingly can't recognise the risks to a WFH long term movement.
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