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Post by Topper Gas on May 6, 2022 6:28:33 GMT
It’s pointless posting positive things going on behind the scenes tilly. If Barton’s had anything to do with it it must be false/ made up/ exaggerated. Most of the anti Barton brigade have slid back into their caves but beware they are waiting to come out in their minority if we fail to get promotion. Course they are. JB said we would get promoted. To be fair to him if he ultimately fails tomorrow he couldn't get us any closer! |
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Post by gasify on May 6, 2022 6:37:36 GMT
Hoole, I missed that one. What club did JB sign him from? Evan definitely has a transfer value but he might walk on a free, anywhere between in one or four games time. What did TW and BG bring, well JCH is the main one and Sammy Nicks is the other. We could've got between 500k an 1m for him. Belshaw is the best signing that JB has made that could be worth a fee. However, it has been a long slog trying to find a decent keeper over the last few years that we shouldn't sell him. The last 40 years has been pretty depressing as a Rovers fan but they are in my blood. My history, my being is very much tethered to Rovers. False Dawn's and the hope that hurts. Of course I have enjoyed the ride since January, who wouldn't. I would prefer to see these sell out crowds in league 1. I would prefer these glory Hunters to commit to Rovers more. Then the next phase in Project Rovers can really get going, ie a new stadium. I do dream and I dream that on Saturday night we will be having a party on gloucester Road. I am also a realist that knows if we don't go back up, we are back in the same place as we were at the beginning of the season. How was BG involved in JCH's signing in any way? Are you being deliberately facetious? He wasn't and I never said he did. The question clearly asked about TW and BG and I gave a clear example of two players. I didn't realise the question was a combined TW and BG. I took it as TW or BG brought in. Anyway, you didn't answer my question. Where did JB sign Hoole from? |
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Post by gasify on May 6, 2022 6:39:14 GMT
Course they are. JB said we would get promoted. To be fair to him if he ultimately fails tomorrow he couldn't get us any closer! But that would just be 'Fools Gold' (and I don't mean the classic from The Stone Roses). |
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Post by gasify on May 6, 2022 6:44:08 GMT
DC did get the blame from some but the difference was DC didn't give up with 5 games left and slightly off the players. Don't forget that some players showed DC loyalty to DC when they stayed and played non league for a season. Also DC was in charge for 8 games and it was his first management job in the football league. Completely different situation. JB was in charge for something like 40% of the games last season. Nicholson, Grant, Kilgour, Jaakola. I’ve probably missed some. Joey has got rid of and retained a similar proportion of players. If he got rid of more, it was because they weren’t good enough. Joey could have had 60% but he didn’t have a window, just like DC didn’t. The problem was the squad was not good enough. Full stop. We could have had the most experienced manager in English football. They wouldn’t have been able to have turned it around. So experience doesn’t come into it. The squad wasn’t good enough. Let it go and enjoy what’s left of our season and I’m sure all will be restored to the status quo, albeit with a squad who can take us positive places instead of a squad which could quite likely have done a Scunny or Southend on us. But the facts say something quite different. If the points per game under BG continued until the end of the season, we would have stayed up. The points per game under JB last season was less than BG. When JB came in, we actually got worse. |
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Post by gasify on May 6, 2022 6:51:42 GMT
28 games in charge,how can you not take any blame,your the boss Tommy,take some responsibility mate, looking for another job soon then Look at garner now, not doing such a bad job eh. I think JB said much more and much worse. It is just football and it’s rare to have someone as straight up honest, as DC was That is exactly the point. This thread started turning into a have a go at TW thread and he has become a scapegoat amongst a subset of fans. What I don't understand is when TW says exactly the same as JB did the inference is completely different. It's what happens next that history will remember for both managers. Like it or not, if we go up on Saturday JB will be talked about in the same breath as GF, PT and DC. I don't agree that he deserves that. I do hope that the JB brigade jump on here on Saturday night doing a "I told you so" dance. |
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Post by gasandelectricity on May 6, 2022 6:58:37 GMT
Nicholson, Grant, Kilgour, Jaakola. I’ve probably missed some. Joey has got rid of and retained a similar proportion of players. If he got rid of more, it was because they weren’t good enough. Joey could have had 60% but he didn’t have a window, just like DC didn’t. The problem was the squad was not good enough. Full stop. We could have had the most experienced manager in English football. They wouldn’t have been able to have turned it around. So experience doesn’t come into it. The squad wasn’t good enough. Let it go and enjoy what’s left of our season and I’m sure all will be restored to the status quo, albeit with a squad who can take us positive places instead of a squad which could quite likely have done a Scunny or Southend on us. But the facts say something quite different. If the points per game under BG continued until the end of the season, we would have stayed up. The points per game under JB last season was less than BG. When JB came in, we actually got worse. I’ve had a career in data and statistics and I’d be the first to wheel out the phrase “lies, damn lies and statistics.” Statistics can be bent to show that we were doing ok under Garner but they only tell half a story and a good analyst will read the context beneath the more obvious trends which tell the more likely truth. Garner had a month of relatively straight forward fixtures which made it look like we were doing ok. And a set of results where we managed to fluke something. We didn’t look convincing in many of those matches. When we lost we got battered and sometimes it was surprising we didn’t lose by more. This is ultimately how he got the sack as the board could see that we were heading in the wrong direction. A season is based over 46 games and I assure you if himself or Tisdale had a full season of the players they had the result would not have differed. A bit like how if you ended the season in October we’d have been in trouble yet come May we’re now in touching distance of automatic promotion. |
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Post by mftc on May 6, 2022 7:32:05 GMT
But the facts say something quite different. If the points per game under BG continued until the end of the season, we would have stayed up. The points per game under JB last season was less than BG. When JB came in, we actually got worse. I’ve had a career in data and statistics and I’d be the first to wheel out the phrase “lies, damn lies and statistics.” Statistics can be bent to show that we were doing ok under Garner but they only tell half a story and a good analyst will read the context beneath the more obvious trends which tell the more likely truth. Garner had a month of relatively straight forward fixtures which made it look like we were doing ok. And a set of results where we managed to fluke something. We didn’t look convincing in many of those matches. When we lost we got battered and sometimes it was surprising we didn’t lose by more. This is ultimately how he got the sack as the board could see that we were heading in the wrong direction. A season is based over 46 games and I assure you if himself or Tisdale had a full season of the players they had the result would not have differed. A bit like how if you ended the season in October we’d have been in trouble yet come May we’re now in touching distance of automatic promotion. Surely your assurance is an opinion not based on stats or facts? People talk about managers but Covid and injuries is what relegated us. JB knew the best hope of avoiding relegation was Nicholson and Hanlon. He kept playing them when the medical staff advised they would get injured. - not blaming JB but he obviously thought it was a risk worth taking? - what options did he really have? Add in Jakkolas injury and what chance did we have of staying up. PT fell out with the powers that be as he said the squad wasn't good enough - isn't that what JB said in a more forthright manner? If he was still in charge would he have rested Nich and Hanlon so they may have earned more points in the later games? Remember we lost loads 1-0 in JBs reign. Garner had a tight budget based on the mantra of young promising players. This season Wael has thrown money at the problem. The problem is that an extra million does not have the same effect the higher up the leagues and we have lots of players out on contract, so a further rebuild is needed in the Summer. JB has done a good job, but if nearly any manager was given an extra million+ budget in this division, then I would expect them to do well. If Scunthorpe could turn back time and buy players on the wages of the likes of Pittman, Whelan, L Clarke, T Clarke, Brown etc on top of their current squad, I doubt they would be relegated. If Wael tries to make us profitable like he did with Garner and Coughlin by giving JB the budget the club (not Wael) can afford, we will be down again ie replace Evans, Nicholson, E Anderson and Whelan, with Tomlinson, Westbrooke, Mehew and Martinez. |
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Post by gasify on May 6, 2022 7:32:46 GMT
But the facts say something quite different. If the points per game under BG continued until the end of the season, we would have stayed up. The points per game under JB last season was less than BG. When JB came in, we actually got worse. I’ve had a career in data and statistics and I’d be the first to wheel out the phrase “lies, damn lies and statistics.” Statistics can be bent to show that we were doing ok under Garner but they only tell half a story and a good analyst will read the context beneath the more obvious trends which tell the more likely truth. Garner had a month of relatively straight forward fixtures which made it look like we were doing ok. And a set of results where we managed to fluke something. We didn’t look convincing in many of those matches. When we lost we got battered and sometimes it was surprising we didn’t lose by more. This is ultimately how he got the sack as the board could see that we were heading in the wrong direction. A season is based over 46 games and I assure you if himself or Tisdale had a full season of the players they had the result would not have differed. A bit like how if you ended the season in October we’d have been in trouble yet come May we’re now in touching distance of automatic promotion. We haven't looked convincing in some of our wins this season. You take your luck where you can. I appreciate l you had a career in data analysis, however points per game after playing every team once would be a reasonable indicator. My honest view of last season is that Covid played a big part: 1) We had Covid in the camp before vaccinations and I think us fans have under estimated the impact on this. 2) Gasheads are the 12th man, we couldn't do our bit last season. However the fans want to blame individuals. BG and TW being the main scapegoats. There is very much a possibility that a JB vs BG showdown could be on the cards in the next three weeks... |
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Post by gasandelectricity on May 6, 2022 7:49:51 GMT
Surely your assurance is an opinion not based on stats or facts? People talk about managers but Covid and injuries is what relegated us An assurance is exactly that. I could go out and find the statistics from the time but I’m pretty damn confident that at the time there were statistics that Garners run was running a crest of a wave of favourable fixtures only beating those in the relegation fight with us aside from the odd exception, but to provide decent statistics other than a PPG which has those favourable circumstances baked into them and over eggs the PPG anyway is something that would take time I don’t have. The simple statistics don’t tell the full story and in a number of cases that means they’re as worthless as assurances and opinion on an Internet forum. A lot of those in favour of Garner conveniently forget his first half of a season after Coughlan left. Be it down to Starnes and Widdrington strategy or Garner himself he was the face of the strategy and bought into it if not a proponent of it. Young hungry players is a great strategy but if it’s cast offs from prem/champ clubs who have attitude problems and have hardly played a game you’ll be in trouble. |
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Post by gasandelectricity on May 6, 2022 7:51:01 GMT
As for COVID and injuries 23 other teams had the same challenges but were able to build a squad to handle this appropriately.
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Post by Colyton Gas on May 6, 2022 7:59:23 GMT
Garner was without any form of personality or Charisma.'What referees have to realise as far as Bristol Rovers are concerned'...... he was once quoted as saying.Sure the Referees and Linesmen's Assoc' sat down to discuss that!!!!
JB is the sheer antithesis of Garner and displays real passion.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on May 6, 2022 8:12:06 GMT
As far as I am concerned the team are playing the best football for many a year, they are fitter and better organised than any other Rovers team in the past and the club is vastly improved in many areas. Wael, TG and Joey are all singing from the same hymn sheet. Joey has brought in his own coaching team, a top fitness conditioning coach Tom Short with several years experience in the Premier league and his work is clear to see. Quite clearly Joey has overseen a very successful season and hopefully the icing on the cake will be promotion at the end of it. Dearly hope so. It’s the least we should accept. As for the ghost writing, I have experience of this and the writer, in the case I speak of, had so much added and others taken away. The ghost writer edited the original story so much that I was barely half of what it was supposed to be. |
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Post by gashead1981 on May 6, 2022 8:51:46 GMT
Nicholson, Grant, Kilgour, Jaakola. I’ve probably missed some. Joey has got rid of and retained a similar proportion of players. If he got rid of more, it was because they weren’t good enough. Joey could have had 60% but he didn’t have a window, just like DC didn’t. The problem was the squad was not good enough. Full stop. We could have had the most experienced manager in English football. They wouldn’t have been able to have turned it around. So experience doesn’t come into it. The squad wasn’t good enough. Let it go and enjoy what’s left of our season and I’m sure all will be restored to the status quo, albeit with a squad who can take us positive places instead of a squad which could quite likely have done a Scunny or Southend on us. But the facts say something quite different. If the points per game under BG continued until the end of the season, we would have stayed up. The points per game under JB last season was less than BG. When JB came in, we actually got worse. In JB's defence, Half the squad was injured, the other half were only good for 60-70mins a game and needed a packet of Snus to get them out of bed in the morning. The kids that came in to the team to help rallied and tried but were let down by their experienced team mates. Look at where that squad is now. The ones that are still here in L2 dont play regular football bar Nicholson and even he has struggled in recent weeks. The ones that stayed in L1 have either gotten relegated or not finished above 15th at their new clubs with some not even playing regular football with the exception of Brendan Hanlan(whos managed to score less goals this year than last btw), some have been relegated out of the conference and the DOF who is now a manager in non league has only won 7 games in 28 at Kings Lynn. BG PPG ratio was based on games where he had the squad at its fittest and most available. The rest on whether we would have stayed up under him is conjecture and opinion. What sealed our fate was because Tisdale dithered terribly through the December prep time for the Jan window and then through the window itself and we didnt sign any stregnth and depth. A DOF job is make sure we have incoming players sorted and signed within the managers spec and if the managers choices arent willing to come then his scouting network provides alternatives. Look at this year, Callum Camps didnt want to come, so the alternative was Billy. The CEO should have been alert to the problems and rattled the pair of them together 2 weeks in to get it sorted, but he dithered as well and then tried to rely on his old mate Nathan Jones to lend us Danny Hylton who didnt want to come. Burton who were below us at Xmas, signed 10-11 players and stayed up. So it was possible but between the 3 of them, Tisdale, Widds and Starnes they all made a gigantic cats arse of it, but Widds was the one who needs to shoulder most of that responsibility. Rightfully, all 3 of them have been sacked/left/mutually terminated and replaced with a much better team of people, regardless of what you think of their personalities. From a footballing perspective we are miles stronger. |
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Post by richie on May 6, 2022 9:37:20 GMT
Very unusual that the only manager that didnt work with TW had the best recruitment window. No guesses why, the only decent signing TW can stand against is JCH and thats because hes ex Coventry. He did the same as a manager at Kings Lynn getting all our cast offs and it didnt work (again). Makes you wonder what his skill set is, he had trouble in judging a player and also appears to have had limited contacts. if he was still around now I wonder what use he would be, maybe a job as a fluffer wouldnt be beyond him I think your being massively unfair here. The JCH signing was worth goals in the team and alot of cash in the bank (some say not enough). Barton has signed a fantastic Keeper. What defenders has he signed that the club owns that could be sold at a profit? What midfielders has JB signed that the club owns that could be sold at a profit? So that leaves the attack. Same question. The Evans can leave on a free,Sammy Nick wasn't signed by JB and potentially we won't get a fee if he leaves at the end of the season. Aaron Collins? Love him to bits and his energy is fantastic but no championship bound is gonna offer JCH amount of money for him. So we have a small amount of success at the moment, which may be false hope come end of May (I hope not) and then what has JB achieved. Of course, I want to be proven wrong. Come Saturday evening I want us promoted. I want to be able to say, ok JB you have got us back to where we were and I will wipe the slate clean. Now get us to the 2nd division where we think we belong but history says something different. In my 40 plus years of being a Gashead, only 3 seasons have been in the 2nd division of the football hierarchy. So, JB let's make is four in 2025 season. I am very much behind the team but there has not been any success yet. first of all im not sure if anyone actually offered any money for Sammy Nichs, but you need to get in touch with reality in that there are very very very few teams lower than the championship that actually pay money for players. These days the whole system in league 1 and 2 is geared to be free transfers and loans. I would love Evans, and Sammy to extend their contracts but lets be honest these transfers could have ended up like Bennett, Barrett and Westbrooke so being cautious was exactly the right thing to do. The real skill is identifying a lower league player (league one and below). Convincing them that the club is a project worthy of the effort (when up against other clubs) and then giving them an acceptable financial package. JB has done this very successfully, yes we have more than a few "old Fleetwood boys" but We have taken players from all over the country, which previously never happened. JCH didn't have a great season, hes league 1 all day and depreciating in value. We got a good deal. |
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on May 6, 2022 13:09:09 GMT
I think your being massively unfair here. The JCH signing was worth goals in the team and alot of cash in the bank (some say not enough). Barton has signed a fantastic Keeper. What defenders has he signed that the club owns that could be sold at a profit? What midfielders has JB signed that the club owns that could be sold at a profit? So that leaves the attack. Same question. The Evans can leave on a free,Sammy Nick wasn't signed by JB and potentially we won't get a fee if he leaves at the end of the season. Aaron Collins? Love him to bits and his energy is fantastic but no championship bound is gonna offer JCH amount of money for him. So we have a small amount of success at the moment, which may be false hope come end of May (I hope not) and then what has JB achieved. Of course, I want to be proven wrong. Come Saturday evening I want us promoted. I want to be able to say, ok JB you have got us back to where we were and I will wipe the slate clean. Now get us to the 2nd division where we think we belong but history says something different. In my 40 plus years of being a Gashead, only 3 seasons have been in the 2nd division of the football hierarchy. So, JB let's make is four in 2025 season. I am very much behind the team but there has not been any success yet. first of all im not sure if anyone actually offered any money for Sammy Nichs, but you need to get in touch with reality in that there are very very very few teams lower than the championship that actually pay money for players. These days the whole system in league 1 and 2 is geared to be free transfers and loans. I would love Evans, and Sammy to extend their contracts but lets be honest these transfers could have ended up like Bennett, Barrett and Westbrooke so being cautious was exactly the right thing to do. The real skill is identifying a lower league player (league one and below). Convincing them that the club is a project worthy of the effort (when up against other clubs) and then giving them an acceptable financial package. JB has done this very successfully, yes we have more than a few "old Fleetwood boys" but We have taken players from all over the country, which previously never happened. JCH didn't have a great season, hes league 1 all day and depreciating in value. We got a good deal. 11 league goals in a relegated team isn’t too bad. He needs a team to be built around him though and I’m not sure he warrants that at Championship level. Lethal in league 1, though. Wonder if he’ll go this summer as I suspect he’ll still be worth a few mill to someone and we could do with a slice of that! |
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Post by fintanstack on May 6, 2022 19:55:05 GMT
How was BG involved in JCH's signing in any way? Are you being deliberately facetious? He wasn't and I never said he did. The question clearly asked about TW and BG and I gave a clear example of two players. I didn't realise the question was a combined TW and BG. I took it as TW or BG brought in. Anyway, you didn't answer my question. Where did JB sign Hoole from? He did not sign Hoole. |
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pirate
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Post by pirate on May 6, 2022 20:47:08 GMT
In fairness to Tommy he did about as good a job as possible with resources he had available and League table for games since he joined has them 14th I think it is.
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Post by gasify on May 6, 2022 20:58:07 GMT
Are you being deliberately facetious? He wasn't and I never said he did. The question clearly asked about TW and BG and I gave a clear example of two players. I didn't realise the question was a combined TW and BG. I took it as TW or BG brought in. Anyway, you didn't answer my question. Where did JB sign Hoole from? That was exactly the point I was trying to make. |
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Post by Topper Gas on May 6, 2022 21:00:49 GMT
Are you being deliberately facetious? He wasn't and I never said he did. The question clearly asked about TW and BG and I gave a clear example of two players. I didn't realise the question was a combined TW and BG. I took it as TW or BG brought in. Anyway, you didn't answer my question. Where did JB sign Hoole from? He did not sign Hoole. JB gave Hoole a new contract so that answers the question "what defender has JB signed who can be sold at a profit". |
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Post by gasify on May 6, 2022 22:40:13 GMT
JB gave Hoole a new contract so that answers the question "what defender has JB signed who can be sold at a profit". You seemed to have given me the answer to: Are you being deliberately facetious? Cheers |
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