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Post by oldie on Feb 2, 2023 8:00:55 GMT
We have a load of doubters on here even before they have seen these youngsters play for gods sake give them a chance. They are obviously good players or they would not be playing for Premiership clubs or be talent they want to enhance Stop being rational. The doom mongers will be on your case. UTFG š“āā ļø Doc, that is blind faith not rationality.
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Marshy
Proper Gas
Posts: 14,132
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Post by Marshy on Feb 2, 2023 8:24:08 GMT
Saturday will be very interesting, feck knows what team we will start with! š¤Ŗ
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Post by DrFaustus on Feb 2, 2023 9:01:58 GMT
Stop being rational. The doom mongers will be on your case. UTFG š“āā ļø Doc, that is blind faith not rationality. No. It's irrational to dismiss the impact of players which none of you have seen play, either for their parent club or for Rovers. We all get it that you, the name dropper and various others don't like Joey, but to dismiss his signings without a ball being kicked is not rational.
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Post by poorblue on Feb 2, 2023 9:26:46 GMT
Looking forward to see what Humphrey Bogarde is all about. Could be a decent loan from Villa Engelbert Humperdinck Bogarde . I can hear the new terrace song from the Thatchers end already. "Please release me let me go" or was that Jasper?
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Post by oldie on Feb 2, 2023 10:40:42 GMT
Doc, that is blind faith not rationality. No. It's irrational to dismiss the impact of players which none of you have seen play, either for their parent club or for Rovers. We all get it that you, the name dropper and various others don't like Joey, but to dismiss his signings without a ball being kicked is not rational. I don't know who the name dropper is? But it's less that I don't like Barton (I don't actually know him) it's that I suspect that he is incompetent. The young centre defender appears to have been a thought out recruit, Ward a considered risk. But the rest of it looks like last minute Christmas shopping when the shop was almost empty. Not writing them off at all, after all look what happened last year when we happened upon E Anderson who had not been scouted and only ended up with us because nobody else picked him up. I wish them all well, of course. But let's face it, last summer's recruitment has not worked well, that on top of what appears to be this round of flapping about. All of that, on top of team set up and tactics that have overseen a winning position generated by two championship level players, Collins and Coburn, squandered into draws or worse a loss. And, we are exceeding the budget by around Ā£2M a year. Finally, his man management style is appalling. He, in effect, provides negative references for players (employees) whilst they are still employed/playing. In real life, outside of football, that is illegal. His comments after the Morecambe fiasco were just the latest example. That's why.
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Post by faggotygas on Feb 2, 2023 11:04:05 GMT
Sorry but you are wrong. Taking loan players is that best way to go for a club like ours- just ask Plymouth as half their team are on loan too. it is all very well Ipswich and Sheffield Wednesday buying players- but look at the size of the crowds and how much they are splashing out to get them. Elliott Anderson and Connor Taylor were key players for the Gas last year but the only reason they came here was because of the loan system. We would not have Coburn and i suspect that we are soon going to find that the 2 youngsters signed this week will be impressive once they get used to the physicality of League1. The difference between the Championship and League 1 is huge and whoever gets promoted will more or less need a new team to survive. If however all the players are under longer term contracts then you are stuck with them even though that are not up to the required standard. When the loan players go back to their clubs at the end of the season then you can sign at least 5 new players capable of playing at the higher level. You are correct of course in that Yeovil got themselves into a pickle - but that was not just the loand players You think I am wrong and your opinion has many likes. I am not rigidly stuck to my opinion but your reply has not convinced me I am wrong. With others mentioning sustainability and Wael financing the club, surely there has to be better balance between loan players and sellable assets? I understand that it is possibly less risky in some ways; if players do not make it you can return them. The problem as I see it is that if they are successful it will only be for one season and you get no material gain. Coupled with that, you are guaranteed to have to rebuild your squad every single season. I do not see how that helps the club in the long term and no one has been able to allay my fears. Sorry to jump in, but I guess the material gain for the club is not being relegated. It's self-evident that they must be better than any permanent players that we could get for that position, who are available and who we can afford. If all other clubs are doing that, then what choice do we have if we wish to be competitive? Having a quick think about previous seasons, our relegation seasons have often been associated with not having many players on loan from prem/championship clubs.
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 2, 2023 12:03:15 GMT
Sorry but you are wrong. Taking loan players is that best way to go for a club like ours- just ask Plymouth as half their team are on loan too. it is all very well Ipswich and Sheffield Wednesday buying players- but look at the size of the crowds and how much they are splashing out to get them. Elliott Anderson and Connor Taylor were key players for the Gas last year but the only reason they came here was because of the loan system. We would not have Coburn and i suspect that we are soon going to find that the 2 youngsters signed this week will be impressive once they get used to the physicality of League1. The difference between the Championship and League 1 is huge and whoever gets promoted will more or less need a new team to survive. If however all the players are under longer term contracts then you are stuck with them even though that are not up to the required standard. When the loan players go back to their clubs at the end of the season then you can sign at least 5 new players capable of playing at the higher level. You are correct of course in that Yeovil got themselves into a pickle - but that was not just the loand players You think I am wrong and your opinion has many likes. I am not rigidly stuck to my opinion but your reply has not convinced me I am wrong. With others mentioning sustainability and Wael financing the club, surely there has to be better balance between loan players and sellable assets? I understand that it is possibly less risky in some ways; if players do not make it you can return them. The problem as I see it is that if they are successful it will only be for one season and you get no material gain. Coupled with that, you are guaranteed to have to rebuild your squad every single season. I do not see how that helps the club in the long term and no one has been able to allay my fears. I get all your points about loans, I guess most can see that. What I disagree with is youāre comparing us to Yeovil. The idea seems to have grown that Yeovil did what they did and built well on loans to over-achieve. They probably did but their demise was due to other factors not being dependent on loans. They continued with loans in their descent downwards. Just not such good ones! All teams benefit from loans and Plymouth and Bolton have used the system well to get good players. Youāre right about originally saying it papers over the cracks. Yes of course it does but we all know as Iām sure the club does that last year Elliot A, Connolly and Taylor werenāt ours but what do we expect the club to do? Not get them and hope we avoid going out of the league? And yes we do have to rebuild a team every year. I suppose you say āpaper over the cracksā Iād say itās preparing for cover or injury or filling a gap somewhere. Nothing wrong in that surely? You may have a point about loans not helping the club in the long term but Iād say that it does help the long term growth of the club. Getting back into a higher league last year, albeit using loans, did help the club and were we to do that (Iām not suggesting we will btw) from this league to the Championship then the club will have grown even more. The use of loans esp if they become your better players can be dangerous as youāve said but atm we have some very good players who are contracted to us. Clearly we need more. The danger of loans as I see it is where the owner says Iām not going to put as much money into the club and I will expect the manager to get loans in to cover us. We need to owner to convert good loans into permanent. Others will know more than me but spending to get getting Connolly, Westbrooke (I canāt believe Iāve said that), and others for money shows that he will do that. Although of course thereās no getting away this window may be seen to have been disappointing depending on how the players turn out. As ever, optimistically, UTG!
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Post by fintanstack on Feb 2, 2023 12:45:48 GMT
You think I am wrong and your opinion has many likes. I am not rigidly stuck to my opinion but your reply has not convinced me I am wrong. With others mentioning sustainability and Wael financing the club, surely there has to be better balance between loan players and sellable assets? I understand that it is possibly less risky in some ways; if players do not make it you can return them. The problem as I see it is that if they are successful it will only be for one season and you get no material gain. Coupled with that, you are guaranteed to have to rebuild your squad every single season. I do not see how that helps the club in the long term and no one has been able to allay my fears. I get all your points about loans, I guess most can see that. What I disagree with is youāre comparing us to Yeovil. The idea seems to have grown that Yeovil did what they did and built well on loans to over-achieve. They probably did but their demise was due to other factors not being dependent on loans. They continued with loans in their descent downwards. Just not such good ones!Ā All teams benefit from loans and Plymouth and Bolton have used the system well to get good players. Youāre right about originally saying it papers over the cracks. Yes of course it does but we all know as Iām sure the club does that last year Elliot A, Connolly and Taylor werenāt ours but what do we expect the club to do? Not get them and hope we avoid going out of the league? And yes we do have to rebuild a team every year. I suppose you say āpaper over the cracksā Iād say itās preparing for cover or injury or filling a gap somewhere. Nothing wrong in that surely? You may have a point about loans not helping the club in the long term but Iād say that it does help the long term growth of the club. Getting back into a higher league last year, albeit using loans, did help the club and were we to do that (Iām not suggesting we will btw) from this league to the Championship then the club will have grown even more. The use of loans esp if they become your better players can be dangerous as youāve said but atm we have some very good players who are contracted to us. Clearly we need more. The danger of loans as I see it is where the owner says Iām not going to put as much money into the club and I will expect the manager to get loans in to cover us. We need to owner to convert good loans into permanent. Others will know more than me but spending to get getting Connolly, Westbrooke (I canāt believe Iāve said that), and others for money shows that he will do that. Although of course thereās no getting away this window may be seen to have been disappointing depending on how the players turn out. As ever, optimistically, UTG! A good post, thank you for summing up the situation better than I. Your last sentence is probably the only difference you and I share in that I am ever pessimistic.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Feb 2, 2023 15:32:54 GMT
"What does everyone else think?"
Meh.
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yattongas
Proper Gas
Posts: 13,821
Member is Online
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Post by yattongas on Feb 2, 2023 15:51:56 GMT
Guess who ?
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 2, 2023 15:58:33 GMT
Why's Wael bailing us out when he's clearly made the decision to finance Rovers loses, it's not like it's a surprise to him we've made a loss when the yearly accounts are published.Ā But Topper surely you can see he's not going to carry on adinfinitm,it's just not possible. We've simply no idea how long Wael intends fully funding the club, given that he's recently spent Ā£m's on a training ground I'd imagine he intends funding the club in at least the short to medium term. Regardless when he ever announces he's putting the club up for sale that's the time to start worrying.
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 2, 2023 15:59:49 GMT
Is it another new signing or an existing player?
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Post by Quarters on Feb 2, 2023 16:02:55 GMT
was a guess who! Who knew Coutts had a left foot shot?
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Feb 2, 2023 18:48:29 GMT
No. It's irrational to dismiss the impact of players which none of you have seen play, either for their parent club or for Rovers. We all get it that you, the name dropper and various others don't like Joey, but to dismiss his signings without a ball being kicked is not rational. I don't know who the name dropper is? But it's less that I don't like Barton (I don't actually know him) it's that I suspect that he is incompetent. The young centre defender appears to have been a thought out recruit, Ward a considered risk. But the rest of it looks like last minute Christmas shopping when the shop was almost empty. Not writing them off at all, after all look what happened last year when we happened upon E Anderson who had not been scouted and only ended up with us because nobody else picked him up. I wish them all well, of course. But let's face it, last summer's recruitment has not worked well, that on top of what appears to be this round of flapping about. All of that, on top of team set up and tactics that have overseen a winning position generated by two championship level players, Collins and Coburn, squandered into draws or worse a loss. And, we are exceeding the budget by around Ā£2M a year. Finally, his man management style is appalling. He, in effect, provides negative references for players (employees) whilst they are still employed/playing. In real life, outside of football, that is illegal. His comments after the Morecambe fiasco were just the latest example. That's why. How strange that players like playing for him then. An employer can give an unfavourable reference, if they have grounds for believing it to be true - I would suggest that JB has usually stated his reasons. Football, and professional sport in general, does not operate the same way as other businessed - I certainly never had to do a twice weekly press conference about how my team was performing at any given time.
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Post by oldie on Feb 2, 2023 19:11:58 GMT
I don't know who the name dropper is? But it's less that I don't like Barton (I don't actually know him) it's that I suspect that he is incompetent. The young centre defender appears to have been a thought out recruit, Ward a considered risk. But the rest of it looks like last minute Christmas shopping when the shop was almost empty. Not writing them off at all, after all look what happened last year when we happened upon E Anderson who had not been scouted and only ended up with us because nobody else picked him up. I wish them all well, of course. But let's face it, last summer's recruitment has not worked well, that on top of what appears to be this round of flapping about. All of that, on top of team set up and tactics that have overseen a winning position generated by two championship level players, Collins and Coburn, squandered into draws or worse a loss. And, we are exceeding the budget by around Ā£2M a year. Finally, his man management style is appalling. He, in effect, provides negative references for players (employees) whilst they are still employed/playing. In real life, outside of football, that is illegal. His comments after the Morecambe fiasco were just the latest example. That's why. How strange that players like playing for him then. An employer can give an unfavourable reference, if they have grounds for believing it to be true - I would suggest that JB has usually stated his reasons. - I certainly never had to do a twice weekly press conference about how my team was performing at any given time.Ā "I would suggest that JB has usually stated his reasons." He has? Quote them, quote those that would stand up to legal scrutiny. "Football, and professional sport in general, does not operate the same way as other business" That old chestnut. Are you seriously suggesting that sporting organisations can run their business outside of the laws the rest of us have to adhere to? Are you suggesting that the rules of economics do not apply? Really?
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 2, 2023 19:48:34 GMT
How strange that players like playing for him then. An employer can give an unfavourable reference, if they have grounds for believing it to be true - I would suggest that JB has usually stated his reasons. - I certainly never had to do a twice weekly press conference about how my team was performing at any given time.Ā "I would suggest that JB has usually stated his reasons." He has? Quote them, quote those that would stand up to legal scrutiny. "Football, and professional sport in general, does not operate the same way as other business" That old chestnut. Are you seriously suggesting that sporting organisations can run their business outside of the laws the rest of us have to adhere to? Are you suggesting that the rules of economics do not apply? Really? They clearly don't as otherwise football clubs would be run as a profitable business or at least one which breaks even.
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Post by oldie on Feb 2, 2023 19:50:06 GMT
"I would suggest that JB has usually stated his reasons." He has? Quote them, quote those that would stand up to legal scrutiny. "Football, and professional sport in general, does not operate the same way as other business" That old chestnut. Are you seriously suggesting that sporting organisations can run their business outside of the laws the rest of us have to adhere to? Are you suggesting that the rules of economics do not apply? Really? They clearly don't as otherwise football clubs would be run as a profitable business or at least one which breaks even. Oh god, please
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Post by trevorgas on Feb 3, 2023 14:33:05 GMT
But Topper surely you can see he's not going to carry on adinfinitm,it's just not possible. We've simply no idea how long Wael intends fully funding the club, given that he's recently spent Ā£m's on a training ground I'd imagine he intends funding the club in at least the short to medium term. Regardless when he ever announces he's putting the club up for sale that's the time to start worrying. Well I would start planning now before he puts the club up for sale as any decent business would
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