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Post by orgasmic on Jul 17, 2015 19:34:30 GMT
Greetings all! Now that the initial knee jerk reactions are out of the way I thought I'd share my view on Mr Higgs in relation to the stadium projecti. Although it seems we have narrowly missed out on getting the UWE stadium at our first attempt I think the vitriol shown towards NH is very short sighted. If you asked most fans, redeveloping the Mem would have made them happy. To me, redeveloping the Mem is like polishing a turd! The additional revenue it would bring would put us in a position to not be in the red every year and of course would mean we have newer, fresher facilities, but that's all. The additional revenue from UWE would have put us significantly in the green automatically and given us a healthy budget at Championship level both now and given a sound financial platform for future generations. The two are barely comparable. NH has looked at all the options and come up with a project that would have been the envy of probably 50 of the 69 football league clubs and maybe more. He thought outside the box, researched thoroughly and had it not been for factors totally out of his control would have delivered it at the first time of asking! In itself, that is a massive achievement. Let's not forget how long it took the Brighton chairman to deliver the Amex stadium! I for one haven't given up hope. With regards to the appeal I looked at the judges verdict and she used no absolute language at all. Almost like she wanted us to appeal! Even if that fails though, the land is still worth large sums of money and I genuinely feel there will be a way of funding the gap between the land value and the stadium cost and let's face it, if a large supermarket can get planning permission for the site, pretty much anything can!! Anyway, boo to the people with short sighted plans that simply fix 1 problem and create another, and hooray for visionaries like Nick Higgs for looking at the club we love and trying to find a solution that not only solves 1 immediate problem, but secures the future for the current fans and the next generation of fans.
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Post by tumshie on Jul 17, 2015 19:38:10 GMT
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Post by orgasmic on Jul 17, 2015 19:41:12 GMT
What's so funny?
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Post by oldtoteender on Jul 17, 2015 19:43:37 GMT
Greetings all! Now that the initial knee jerk reactions are out of the way I thought I'd share my view on Mr Higgs in relation to the stadium projecti. Although it seems we have narrowly missed out on getting the UWE stadium at our first attempt I think the vitriol shown towards NH is very short sighted. If you asked most fans, redeveloping the Mem would have made them happy. To me, redeveloping the Mem is like polishing a turd! The additional revenue it would bring would put us in a position to not be in the red every year and of course would mean we have newer, fresher facilities, but that's all. The additional revenue from UWE would have put us significantly in the green automatically and given us a healthy budget at Championship level both now and given a sound financial platform for future generations. The two are barely comparable. NH has looked at all the options and come up with a project that would have been the envy of probably 50 of the 69 football league clubs and maybe more. He thought outside the box, researched thoroughly and had it not been for factors totally out of his control would have delivered it at the first time of asking! In itself, that is a massive achievement. Let's not forget how long it took the Brighton chairman to deliver the Amex stadium! I for one haven't given up hope. With regards to the appeal I looked at the judges verdict and she used no absolute language at all. Almost like she wanted us to appeal! Even if that fails though, the land is still worth large sums of money and I genuinely feel there will be a way of funding the gap between the land value and the stadium cost and let's face it, if a large supermarket can get planning permission for the site, pretty much anything can!! Anyway, boo to the people with short sighted plans that simply fix 1 problem and create another, and hooray for visionaries like Nick Higgs for looking at the club we love and trying to find a solution that not only solves 1 immediate problem, but secures the future for the current fans and the next generation of fans. |
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Post by rambo on Jul 17, 2015 19:45:23 GMT
Brave...
I can see you taking a bit of a pounding in this thread.
Not that I disagree with everything you say, in fact, I do feel for Higgs and will not slate the bloke because he ulitmately failed due to the rest of the world being against him!
However, to call him a visionary genius when on paper, and in terms of what he has delivered, he has probably the worst financial and footballing results records of any BRFC chariman of all time, is probably not going to go down with a lot of hurting Gasheads.
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Post by orgasmic on Jul 17, 2015 19:49:01 GMT
Brave... I can see you taking a bit of a pounding in this thread. Not that I disagree with everything you say, in fact, I do feel for Higgs and will not slate the bloke because he ulitmately failed due to the rest of the world being against him! However, to call him a visionary genius when on paper, and in terms of what he has delivered, he has probably the worst financial and footballing results records of any BRFC chariman of all time, is probably not going to go down with a lot of hurting Gasheads. I did say in relation to the stadium project!! |
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Post by mumbles on Jul 17, 2015 20:00:32 GMT
Greetings all! Now that the initial knee jerk reactions are out of the way I thought I'd share my view on Mr Higgs in relation to the stadium projecti. Although it seems we have narrowly missed out on getting the UWE stadium at our first attempt I think the vitriol shown towards NH is very short sighted. If you asked most fans, redeveloping the Mem would have made them happy. To me, redeveloping the Mem is like polishing a turd! The additional revenue it would bring would put us in a position to not be in the red every year and of course would mean we have newer, fresher facilities, but that's all. The additional revenue from UWE would have put us significantly in the green automatically and given us a healthy budget at Championship level both now and given a sound financial platform for future generations. The two are barely comparable. NH has looked at all the options and come up with a project that would have been the envy of probably 50 of the 69 football league clubs and maybe more. He thought outside the box, researched thoroughly and had it not been for factors totally out of his control would have delivered it at the first time of asking! In itself, that is a massive achievement. Let's not forget how long it took the Brighton chairman to deliver the Amex stadium! I for one haven't given up hope. With regards to the appeal I looked at the judges verdict and she used no absolute language at all. Almost like she wanted us to appeal! Even if that fails though, the land is still worth large sums of money and I genuinely feel there will be a way of funding the gap between the land value and the stadium cost and let's face it, if a large supermarket can get planning permission for the site, pretty much anything can!! Anyway, boo to the people with short sighted plans that simply fix 1 problem and create another, and hooray for visionaries like Nick Higgs for looking at the club we love and trying to find a solution that not only solves 1 immediate problem, but secures the future for the current fans and the next generation of fans. I too think the UWE scheme was inspired. The planning approval is still our biggest asset and the best hope we have for the future. We can't give up on it and let this opportunity fall through our fingers. I'd be interested to hear what you think the options are for filling the funding gap. There have been a few suggestions made in various threads this past week. My own idea for a debentures scheme didn't get much support but maybe a combination of different schemes would raise the cash we need to get the thing built? |
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Post by oldtoteender on Jul 17, 2015 20:28:27 GMT
I for one do not think he is a visionary he never had the vision to see where he and the board were taking us-CONFERENCE FOOTBALL also if the UWE is a more lucrative prospect than redeveloping the Mem why did they not go down this road in the first place (when supermarkets were doing really well and looking for new areas to build (Tescos at golden hill for one) we were told at the time that when they were going to redevelop the Mem regarding student builds etc that it was going to be very lucrative for the club, also we own the Mem so all profits would be ours because i am sure we would not get all the income to ourselves at the UWE if redeveloping the Mem was appealing then why not now. UTG.
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Post by britishgas on Jul 17, 2015 20:31:01 GMT
I've said it before: his heart is in the right place, but his naivety in signing that ridiculous contract could well be the decision that condemns this club. Nothing he's done has been malicious, but you can't run a club with good intentions alone. Had he considered the possibility of Sainsbury's pulling out and thus insisted on an ironclad clause, we wouldn't be in this mess.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 20:32:55 GMT
For me your a million miles away from how it is. I do agree with some points though but overall he keeps taking the gamblers chance to cover his previous mistakes and he keeps loosing. What I would like to see is clarity on who's money he's gambling. Is this his personal savings he's dipping into or are we stacking debt on debt. No doubt it's the latter but with all the figures adding up it would be good to draw a line in the sand and know exactly what our predicament is.
Can't knock what he's tried though with definitely the best interests of the club at heart but he went a very wrong way about it and he needs some proper guidance before the situation gets out of control.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 20:37:13 GMT
Thanks Toni.
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Post by oldtoteender on Jul 17, 2015 20:38:58 GMT
But that is his problem he will not take guidance it seems to be his way or no way.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 17, 2015 20:42:14 GMT
If the UWE is such a great project why can it only proceed backed by Sainsbury's money, why can't we sell the Mem for say £15m and borrow the other £15m to finance the build, surely with such fantastic income streams at the UWE the new stadium will pay for itself in a few a years?
As far as polishing a turd at the Mem would it really seem that way if we were sat in a new built 18,000 stadium?
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Post by orgasmic on Jul 17, 2015 20:54:03 GMT
Greetings all! Now that the initial knee jerk reactions are out of the way I thought I'd share my view on Mr Higgs in relation to the stadium projecti. Although it seems we have narrowly missed out on getting the UWE stadium at our first attempt I think the vitriol shown towards NH is very short sighted. If you asked most fans, redeveloping the Mem would have made them happy. To me, redeveloping the Mem is like polishing a turd! The additional revenue it would bring would put us in a position to not be in the red every year and of course would mean we have newer, fresher facilities, but that's all. The additional revenue from UWE would have put us significantly in the green automatically and given us a healthy budget at Championship level both now and given a sound financial platform for future generations. The two are barely comparable. NH has looked at all the options and come up with a project that would have been the envy of probably 50 of the 69 football league clubs and maybe more. He thought outside the box, researched thoroughly and had it not been for factors totally out of his control would have delivered it at the first time of asking! In itself, that is a massive achievement. Let's not forget how long it took the Brighton chairman to deliver the Amex stadium! I for one haven't given up hope. With regards to the appeal I looked at the judges verdict and she used no absolute language at all. Almost like she wanted us to appeal! Even if that fails though, the land is still worth large sums of money and I genuinely feel there will be a way of funding the gap between the land value and the stadium cost and let's face it, if a large supermarket can get planning permission for the site, pretty much anything can!! Anyway, boo to the people with short sighted plans that simply fix 1 problem and create another, and hooray for visionaries like Nick Higgs for looking at the club we love and trying to find a solution that not only solves 1 immediate problem, but secures the future for the current fans and the next generation of fans. I too think the UWE scheme was inspired. The planning approval is still our biggest asset and the best hope we have for the future. We can't give up on it and let this opportunity fall through our fingers. I'd be interested to hear what you think the options are for filling the funding gap. There have been a few suggestions made in various threads this past week. My own idea for a debentures scheme didn't get much support but maybe a combination of different schemes would raise the cash we need to get the thing built? Could be UWE if we sold to a student accommodation, could be an investor paying less for the club but knowing they'd get a return...there are countless options! |
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Post by aghast on Jul 17, 2015 20:57:54 GMT
The project failed for a number of reasons, some of which were (or could have been) under NH's control - or under the control of the team he appointed to manage this - such as:
1) Agreeing a contract which specified 24 hrs a day delivery slots whilst knowing this was never going to be approved by Bristol City Council;
2) Approving Sainsbury's submission for a revised delivery slot plan whilst being aware that the proposal did not satisfy BCC's objections;
3) Allowing relationships with Sainsbury's to break down to the point where they did not even tell the club that they knew the application was likely to fail;
4) Trying to change the conditions of the contract mid-term by at first refusing to pay Rovers' share of the Community levy and then later reducing the sale price of the Mem to cover this.
In addition he misled the fans by repeatedly telling them that all was well and stating expected start dates, despite not having enough confidence in his own opinion to back the project with his own cash, instead taking out a high interest loan to cover legal fees. How this will be repaid is as yet unclear.
So to me it was a good idea but flawed in its execution. Done with the best of intentions initially, but doomed by events and oversights.
Not the work of a visionary genious.
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Post by orgasmic on Jul 17, 2015 21:01:03 GMT
I for one do not think he is a visionary he never had the vision to see where he and the board were taking us-CONFERENCE FOOTBALL also if the UWE is a more lucrative prospect than redeveloping the Mem why did they not go down this road in the first place (when supermarkets were doing really well and looking for new areas to build (Tescos at golden hill for one) we were told at the time that when they were going to redevelop the Mem regarding student builds etc that it was going to be very lucrative for the club, also we own the Mem so all profits would be ours because i am sure we would not get all the income to ourselves at the UWE if redeveloping the Mem was appealing then why not now. UTG. I did say in relation to the stadium!! Redeveloping the Mem wasn't the best plan and after it failed I think he looked into it in far more detail and drew on the experience from other clubs successes. The student accommodation market collapsed in the global credit crunch which even the banks didn't foresee so he can't be blamed for that! UWE wouldn't take profit from the stadium as per the contract. The he reason it isn't as appealing now is as per my original post...it only provides a quarter of the revenue. |
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Post by orgasmic on Jul 17, 2015 21:02:17 GMT
For me your a million miles away from how it is. I do agree with some points though but overall he keeps taking the gamblers chance to cover his previous mistakes and he keeps loosing. What I would like to see is clarity on who's money he's gambling. Is this his personal savings he's dipping into or are we stacking debt on debt. No doubt it's the latter but with all the figures adding up it would be good to draw a line in the sand and know exactly what our predicament is. Can't knock what he's tried though with definitely the best interests of the club at heart but he went a very wrong way about it and he needs some proper guidance before the situation gets out of control. What gamble? |
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Post by orgasmic on Jul 17, 2015 21:03:57 GMT
If the UWE is such a great project why can it only proceed backed by Sainsbury's money, why can't we sell the Mem for say £15m and borrow the other £15m to finance the build, surely with such fantastic income streams at the UWE the new stadium will pay for itself in a few a years? As far as polishing a turd at the Mem would it really seem that way if we were sat in a new built 18,000 stadium? Because UWE have insisted that the club be debt free on completion. it would be lovely but wouldn't achieve even half as much as UWE. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 21:09:58 GMT
For me your a million miles away from how it is. I do agree with some points though but overall he keeps taking the gamblers chance to cover his previous mistakes and he keeps loosing. What I would like to see is clarity on who's money he's gambling. Is this his personal savings he's dipping into or are we stacking debt on debt. No doubt it's the latter but with all the figures adding up it would be good to draw a line in the sand and know exactly what our predicament is. Can't knock what he's tried though with definitely the best interests of the club at heart but he went a very wrong way about it and he needs some proper guidance before the situation gets out of control. What gamble? I'll go with getting a £2 million high interest loan, presumably against the memorial stadium and any other club assets to persue a contract that proved to be as water tight as a colander. |
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Post by orgasmic on Jul 17, 2015 21:11:37 GMT
The project failed for a number of reasons, some of which were (or could have been) under NH's control - or under the control of the team he appointed to manage this - such as: 1) Agreeing a contract which specified 24 hrs a day delivery slots whilst knowing this was never going to be approved by Bristol City Council; 2) Approving Sainsbury's submission for a revised delivery slot plan whilst being aware that the proposal did not satisfy BCC's objections; 3) Allowing relationships with Sainsbury's to break down to the point where they did not even tell the club that they knew the application was likely to fail; 4) Trying to change the conditions of the contract mid-term by at first refusing to pay Rovers' share of the Community levy and then later reducing the sale price of the Mem to cover this. In addition he misled the fans by repeatedly telling them that all was well and stating expected start dates, despite not having enough confidence in his own opinion to back the project with his own cash, instead taking out a high interest loan to cover legal fees. How this will be repaid is as yet unclear. So to me it was a good idea but flawed in its execution. Done with the best of intentions initially, but doomed by events and oversights. Not the work of a visionary genious. 1 incorrect as it did get approved by bcc. 2 NH couldn't at that stage interfere with their application 3 Sainsburys did that intentionally once they knew they didn't want to fulfil their obligations 4 I am not aware of this at all Could this be under legal advice? The loan was clearly to demonstrate that Sainsburys were bleeding them dry! We'll see how it gets paid! whatever your thoughts on NH it's certainly better than a "good idea" and but for circumstances outside of his control would have been delivered! |
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