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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 11:51:14 GMT
dont get why people are in such a hurry to change/rip up a winning team??? I think "rip up" is an extremely OTT comment. Nobody (as far as I can see) is suggesting that. What I am suggesting is that I think it's incredibly naive to assume that a side who played non-league football just 2 years ago will now be good enough to really make an impact on L1. I'm not saying that they won't be good enough - I'm just pointing out that I think it's incredibly naive - and indeed rather fairy-tale/fantasy stuff to imagine we will still be able to compete (properly) in L1 without strengthening and improving our starting 11. "Stand still and get left behind" is the old adage. I truly believe many of our players will make the step up and - at the very least - will be able to play a part from the bench. But I also think some areas of the team (especially midfield and goalkeeper) can be strengthened and I'd be disappointed if we don't address this. That's certainly very different from saying "let's rip the team up". well unless im mistaken we have brought 3 players in and we have nearly a month before the deadline. its a delicate balance making sure we keep the team spirit and the quality required to have a decent season. which players from the possible starting line up do you want replaced? mildenhall? leadbitter? lockyer?hartley? brown? bodin? mansell? lines? moore? taylor? or gaffney? no point in signing anyone else unless they are clearly an improvement and fit in with dc ethos on character etc. before anyone says my starting 11 is just my rough idea of what it will be |
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Post by RD on Aug 3, 2016 12:02:20 GMT
I think "rip up" is an extremely OTT comment. Nobody (as far as I can see) is suggesting that. What I am suggesting is that I think it's incredibly naive to assume that a side who played non-league football just 2 years ago will now be good enough to really make an impact on L1. I'm not saying that they won't be good enough - I'm just pointing out that I think it's incredibly naive - and indeed rather fairy-tale/fantasy stuff to imagine we will still be able to compete (properly) in L1 without strengthening and improving our starting 11. "Stand still and get left behind" is the old adage. I truly believe many of our players will make the step up and - at the very least - will be able to play a part from the bench. But I also think some areas of the team (especially midfield and goalkeeper) can be strengthened and I'd be disappointed if we don't address this. That's certainly very different from saying "let's rip the team up". well unless im mistaken we have brought 3 players in and we have nearly a month before the deadline. its a delicate balance making sure we keep the team spirit and the quality required to have a decent season. which players from the possible starting line up do you want replaced? mildenhall? leadbitter? lockyer?hartley? brown? bodin? mansell? lines? moore? taylor? or gaffney? no point in signing anyone else unless they are clearly an improvement and fit in with dc ethos on character etc. before anyone says my starting 11 is just my rough idea of what it will be I'm not sure whether Moore will be a regular starter(?) and James may be backup. So the only player from the 3 we've bought in to improve our starting lineup is Hartley. IMO that's a massive gamble given the step up. Of the players you've listed, I personally believe Mildenhall, Mansell and Lines could be improved upon. |
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Post by jaunkerr on Aug 3, 2016 12:28:34 GMT
dont get why people are in such a hurry to change/rip up a winning team??? I think "rip up" is an extremely OTT comment. Nobody (as far as I can see) is suggesting that. What I am suggesting is that I think it's incredibly naive to assume that a side who played non-league football just 2 years ago will now be good enough to really make an impact on L1. I'm not saying that they won't be good enough - I'm just pointing out that I think it's incredibly naive - and indeed rather fairy-tale/fantasy stuff to imagine we will still be able to compete (properly) in L1 without strengthening and improving our starting 11. "Stand still and get left behind" is the old adage. I truly believe many of our players will make the step up and - at the very least - will be able to play a part from the bench. But I also think some areas of the team (especially midfield and goalkeeper) can be strengthened and I'd be disappointed if we don't address this. That's certainly very different from saying "let's rip the team up". I felt the same way until I had a good look at how Burton have got on. Have a quick look and I think you may be a bit more confident. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 12:32:56 GMT
dont get why people are in such a hurry to change/rip up a winning team??? I think "rip up" is an extremely OTT comment. Nobody (as far as I can see) is suggesting that. What I am suggesting is that I think it's incredibly naive to assume that a side who played non-league football just 2 years ago will now be good enough to really make an impact on L1. I'm not saying that they won't be good enough - I'm just pointing out that I think it's incredibly naive - and indeed rather fairy-tale/fantasy stuff to imagine we will still be able to compete (properly) in L1 without strengthening and improving our starting 11. "Stand still and get left behind" is the old adage. I truly believe many of our players will make the step up and - at the very least - will be able to play a part from the bench. But I also think some areas of the team (especially midfield and goalkeeper) can be strengthened and I'd be disappointed if we don't address this. That's certainly very different from saying "let's rip the team up".
I agree with all of this.
It's commendable rewarding players who have won promotion for you and letting them prove themselves in a higher league, but sooner or later you are going to have to bring in quality to match the division you are in or where you are aiming to be.
Swansea and Southampton found out that some players were able to make the step up all the way to the Premier league, but on the whole the majority of players didn't make it and had to be replaced.
I just fear we will have another poor start as seems to be the recent trend, and maybe DC wont be able to turn things around this time.
It will certainly be more expensive to sort the squad out in January than it will be this summer.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 12:44:56 GMT
Not many as they have all been playing regularly at a higher level than us. so following your thinking through maybe just sign 11 players who have been playing at a higher level and hey presto were ok? the 3 players you mentioned might have been playing badly at a higher level? we know most of our squad played very well albeit in league 2.
Im not saying that, I study a lot of players in the lower leagues and conference and feel a lot of players have gone to similar-lesser clubs already that would imo have improved our starting X1.
I'm no scout or anything but the last player I recommended to the club was Gylfi Sigurðsson just before Crewe signed him on loan from Reading as at that time I was working in Berkshire and saw them in training many times.
Personally I am still worried about a partner for Lockyer (as I don't rate Hartley) and a creative central midfielder. The rest should be ok but as its a higher level we wont know who sinks and who swims until we play competitive matches.
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Post by baggins on Aug 3, 2016 12:59:22 GMT
so following your thinking through maybe just sign 11 players who have been playing at a higher level and hey presto were ok? the 3 players you mentioned might have been playing badly at a higher level? we know most of our squad played very well albeit in league 2.
Im not saying that, I study a lot of players in the lower leagues and conference and feel a lot of players have gone to similar-lesser clubs already that would imo have improved our starting X1.
I no scout or anything but the last player I recommended to the club was Gylfi Sigurðsson just before Crewe signed him on loan from Reading as at that time I was working in Berkshire and saw them in training many times.
Personally I am still worried about a partner for Lockyer (as I don't rate Hartley) and a creative central midfielder. The rest should be ok but as its a higher level we wont know who sinks and who swims until we play competitive matches.
Just a tad worried about our keeper situation. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 13:16:28 GMT
Im not saying that, I study a lot of players in the lower leagues and conference and feel a lot of players have gone to similar-lesser clubs already that would imo have improved our starting X1.
I no scout or anything but the last player I recommended to the club was Gylfi Sigurðsson just before Crewe signed him on loan from Reading as at that time I was working in Berkshire and saw them in training many times.
Personally I am still worried about a partner for Lockyer (as I don't rate Hartley) and a creative central midfielder. The rest should be ok but as its a higher level we wont know who sinks and who swims until we play competitive matches.
Just a tad worried about our keeper situation.
I know what you mean as I was debating whether to add the goalkeeping position.
Mildy I still have faith in despite pre season mistakes, goalies tend to have greater longevity and he was more than fine when he came back last season so no reason why he cant start the season like that when it really matters.
Puddy doesn't look great from what I have seen, but he doesn't get to play many decent level games so I feel that must have halted his progress somewhat.
I'd be happy to see someone come in to challenge Mildy and be his eventual successor if Puddy is not deemed good enough.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 3, 2016 13:21:09 GMT
so following your thinking through maybe just sign 11 players who have been playing at a higher level and hey presto were ok? the 3 players you mentioned might have been playing badly at a higher level? we know most of our squad played very well albeit in league 2.
Im not saying that, I study a lot of players in the lower leagues and conference and feel a lot of players have gone to similar-lesser clubs already that would imo have improved our starting X1.
I no scout or anything but the last player I recommended to the club was Gylfi Sigurðsson just before Crewe signed him on loan from Reading as at that time I was working in Berkshire and saw them in training many times.
Personally I am still worried about a partner for Lockyer (as I don't rate Hartley) and a creative central midfielder. The rest should be ok but as its a higher level we wont know who sinks and who swims until we play competitive matches.
Well DC clearly rates Harltey as a partner for TL so unless your a Div 1 manager hiding your identity I'd go with his opinion over yours! The problem we have is none of us how much DC has left to spend and also which players are prepared to move to Bristol, it's easy to easy to say x,y,z on a forum but they may have zero interest in moving to Bristol for what DC is prepared to offer. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 13:30:18 GMT
Im not saying that, I study a lot of players in the lower leagues and conference and feel a lot of players have gone to similar-lesser clubs already that would imo have improved our starting X1.
I no scout or anything but the last player I recommended to the club was Gylfi Sigurðsson just before Crewe signed him on loan from Reading as at that time I was working in Berkshire and saw them in training many times.
Personally I am still worried about a partner for Lockyer (as I don't rate Hartley) and a creative central midfielder. The rest should be ok but as its a higher level we wont know who sinks and who swims until we play competitive matches.
Well DC clearly rates Harltey as a partner for TL so unless your a Div 1 manager hiding your identity I'd go with his opinion over yours! The problem we have is none of us how much DC has left to spend and also which players are prepared to move to Bristol, it's easy to easy to say x,y,z on a forum but they may have zero interest in moving to Bristol for what DC is prepared to offer.
Absolutely. I've never offered anything but my opinion or pretended i'm anything other than a fan who has watched a lot of matches over 30+ years, nothing more.
We will never know the ins and outs of the club but it doesn't stop us giving our opinion or speculating on a forum.
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 3, 2016 15:24:59 GMT
I presumed that Jordan Evans who was on trial would be one of the 2/3 signings but that won't happen now after signing for Wrexham (at least I presume he's the same player). It's going to the line if we are going to get anyone in before the opening match. Looks more likely that DC will wait to see how we go in first few matches and perhaps get people in before the deadline.
UTG!
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Post by Newton Abbot Gas on Aug 3, 2016 15:35:53 GMT
TBH i'm quite happy to start the season with the players we have,i'm sure they will as always give 100% and then lets see where we are after 6 or so games.Think a few of our lads will surprise ....UTG
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Post by pucklegas on Aug 3, 2016 16:03:56 GMT
TBH i'm quite happy to start the season with the players we have,i'm sure they will as always give 100% and then lets see where we are after 6 or so games.Think a few of our lads will surprise ....UTG Still think we need a midfield playmaker, maybe we will go for Richie Towell again? We have a lot of options up front, and haven't worked out why Muzzy was watching us? |
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Post by Newton Abbot Gas on Aug 3, 2016 16:27:41 GMT
TBH i'm quite happy to start the season with the players we have,i'm sure they will as always give 100% and then lets see where we are after 6 or so games.Think a few of our lads will surprise ....UTG Still think we need a midfield playmaker, maybe we will go for Richie Towell again? We have a lot of options up front, and haven't worked out why Muzzy was watching us? I see where you are coming from.......just think perhaps we need to give our lads the chance to show what they can do and then if lacking in certain areas then DC can address and strengthen as required......as i have said really think a few of our lads will make the step-up to league 1 and surprise (positive head on today)...UTG |
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Post by pucklegas on Aug 3, 2016 18:33:16 GMT
Still think we need a midfield playmaker, maybe we will go for Richie Towell again? We have a lot of options up front, and haven't worked out why Muzzy was watching us? I see where you are coming from.......just think perhaps we need to give our lads the chance to show what they can do and then if lacking in certain areas then DC can address and strengthen as required......as i have said really think a few of our lads will make the step-up to league 1 and surprise (positive head on today)...UTG I think you are right a lot will make the step up seamlessly, like being positive but a Leon Britton type of midfielder would do us nicely, we all saw with Wales how a well organised team can outdo teams with more quality I.e Belguim, trust DC to get it right but as fans we hang on every word, and when he said 2-3 more quality players in, we ain't happy! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 22:25:30 GMT
well unless im mistaken we have brought 3 players in and we have nearly a month before the deadline. its a delicate balance making sure we keep the team spirit and the quality required to have a decent season. which players from the possible starting line up do you want replaced? mildenhall? leadbitter? lockyer?hartley? brown? bodin? mansell? lines? moore? taylor? or gaffney? no point in signing anyone else unless they are clearly an improvement and fit in with dc ethos on character etc. before anyone says my starting 11 is just my rough idea of what it will be I'm not sure whether Moore will be a regular starter(?) and James may be backup. So the only player from the 3 we've bought in to improve our starting lineup is Hartley. IMO that's a massive gamble given the step up. Of the players you've listed, I personally believe Mildenhall, Mansell and Lines could be improved upon. well moore signed a 2 year deal with us and has played nearly 300 mostly league one games so i think dc is hoping he will be a regular. we differ in that i think we need to give the present team a chance and you would rather replace 5 or 6 of them from game 1,it will be interesting to see who is right. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 22:32:19 GMT
so following your thinking through maybe just sign 11 players who have been playing at a higher level and hey presto were ok? the 3 players you mentioned might have been playing badly at a higher level? we know most of our squad played very well albeit in league 2.
Im not saying that, I study a lot of players in the lower leagues and conference and feel a lot of players have gone to similar-lesser clubs already that would imo have improved our starting X1.
I'm no scout or anything but the last player I recommended to the club was Gylfi Sigurðsson just before Crewe signed him on loan from Reading as at that time I was working in Berkshire and saw them in training many times.
Personally I am still worried about a partner for Lockyer (as I don't rate Hartley) and a creative central midfielder. The rest should be ok but as its a higher level we wont know who sinks and who swims until we play competitive matches.
clearly the manager rates hartley so we will see how that pans out? i agree we dont know who will sink or swim its just my opinion that we give the team that got us to league 1 +3 a chance. i think dc will bring 1 or 2 more close to the deadline if we struggle in certain areas. im happy with that others are not |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 3, 2016 22:39:30 GMT
TBH i'm quite happy to start the season with the players we have,i'm sure they will as always give 100% and then lets see where we are after 6 or so games.Think a few of our lads will surprise ....UTG As long as the kettle is still under warranty and it's agent is not trying to get a move away, we'll be fine. if it could put in a transfer request, would it move to 'Leads'? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 22:40:12 GMT
These things have a domino effect.
Certain players that aren't available in say, June, become available in mid to late August. Such is the way of the transfer market, and it often revolves around Premier League clubs waiting on injuries, declaring their 25-man squad etc. and then these players filter down and deals are done towards the end.
For example, Oli McBurnie is playing in Swansea's pre-season friendlies at the moment. If Swansea sign Llorente, he may not be needed in their squad. He could go out on loan. A reserve player could then become available at that club, they go out on loan etc. etc.
Essentially, rubbish players are available all the time. Waiting for the right ones makes sense.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Aug 4, 2016 6:56:10 GMT
These things have a domino effect. Certain players that aren't available in say, June, become available in mid to late August. Such is the way of the transfer market, and it often revolves around Premier League clubs waiting on injuries, declaring their 25-man squad etc. and then these players filter down and deals are done towards the end. For example, Oli McBurnie is playing in Swansea's pre-season friendlies at the moment. If Swansea sign Llorente, he may not be needed in their squad. He could go out on loan. A reserve player could then become available at that club, they go out on loan etc. etc. Essentially, rubbish players are available all the time. Waiting for the right ones makes sense. Yep, also, istm, we're waiting on these with the luxury of a 'complete' squad. It's not like we're hopelessly lacking in a specific area and desperate to fill it. |
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Post by RD on Aug 4, 2016 8:07:12 GMT
I'm not sure whether Moore will be a regular starter(?) and James may be backup. So the only player from the 3 we've bought in to improve our starting lineup is Hartley. IMO that's a massive gamble given the step up. Of the players you've listed, I personally believe Mildenhall, Mansell and Lines could be improved upon. well moore signed a 2 year deal with us and has played nearly 300 mostly league one games so i think dc is hoping he will be a regular. we differ in that i think we need to give the present team a chance and you would rather replace 5 or 6 of them from game 1,it will be interesting to see who is right. Where have I said I would rather replace 5 or 6 of them? I have not said that. What I have said is that of the three signings we've made, IMO only of them is certain to start (Hartley) and one may start (Moore). Luke James is likely IMO to be backup. On top of that, Hartley was in L2 last season (in a team that finished below us) and Moore was relegated from the league we are in now. I'm not saying that they won't be good players (as DC has proved time and time again he can improve players), but the ENTIRE POINT of this thread was to say that I've obviously raised my expectations too high. With our chairman's rumoured wealth, whilst I didn't expect us to go out and spend a million quid, I did expect us to spend some money - at least £50k and maybe £100k-£250k overall. I rate our boys, I really do; I just think it's unbelievably naive to think that a team of players who were non-league players 2 years ago cannot be bettered at L1 level. For me, the bulk of the team is fine, but IMO CM and GK can definitely be (quite easily) improved if there really is money available. DC is an incredibly smart and talented manager and I very much doubt he doesn't see that too. As such, I will have to assume that if we fail to strengthen in those areas by the end of August, it will be because the funds aren't available, rather than him being unable to find better out there. Again, this is just my opinion. |
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