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Post by LJG on Aug 16, 2016 9:37:45 GMT
What a pair of idiots...
I don't think someone in a stable state of mind can murder, it isn't 'normal' especially the way in which these crimes have been carried out, therefore perhaps they have a penchant for violence and their brains aren't functioning in the correct way. www.livescience.com/22302-mass-killers-psychopaths-mental-illness.html There's no such thing as good and evil, that was made up to create order and values in a disorganized society, there's just people who conform to what we think is right or wrong. So perhaps the sane ones are the crazy ones...
I would have a rant about the total lack of funding for mental health, which I think would solve a lot of problems in society, but this thread seems to be about people on drugs so I'll abstain! Without wanting to hi-jack the thread there's no way I can agree that there's no such thing as people who don't simply choose to do bad things. To say otherwise absolves every criminal person of any culpability for their actions. I don't agree that that is right. Without wishing to make a judgement on you as obviously I don't know you; in my experience the people who say that sort of thing have not had lives significantly impacted by mental health issues. All a sensitive topic so I'm not judging anyone or having a rant. Also only tenuously Rovers related. I would like to see football clubs do something in the community related to mental health issues since its such an issue for young men. We have kick racism out and rainbow laces for LGBT, we could equally have a Mental Health Stigma Day. Pull Yer Socks UP for Mental Health or something ... I dunno.
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Post by Qatar Gas on Aug 16, 2016 10:01:29 GMT
Surely not I haven't seen Nathan at a game for a few years?? Whatever happened to Nathan Brown?
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Post by cagastrophy on Aug 16, 2016 10:50:39 GMT
What a pair of idiots...
I don't think someone in a stable state of mind can murder, it isn't 'normal' especially the way in which these crimes have been carried out, therefore perhaps they have a penchant for violence and their brains aren't functioning in the correct way. www.livescience.com/22302-mass-killers-psychopaths-mental-illness.html There's no such thing as good and evil, that was made up to create order and values in a disorganized society, there's just people who conform to what we think is right or wrong. So perhaps the sane ones are the crazy ones...
I would have a rant about the total lack of funding for mental health, which I think would solve a lot of problems in society, but this thread seems to be about people on drugs so I'll abstain! Without wanting to hi-jack the thread there's no way I can agree that there's no such thing as people who don't simply choose to do bad things. To say otherwise absolves every criminal person of any culpability for their actions. I don't agree that that is right. Without wishing to make a judgement on you as obviously I don't know you; in my experience the people who say that sort of thing have not had lives significantly impacted by mental health issues. All a sensitive topic so I'm not judging anyone or having a rant. Also only tenuously Rovers related. I would like to see football clubs do something in the community related to mental health issues since its such an issue for young men. We have kick racism out and rainbow laces for LGBT, we could equally have a Mental Health Stigma Day. Pull Yer Socks UP for Mental Health or something ... I dunno. Sorry, did a fail at being philosophical. I agree that bad things can be done, but some things are beyond bad. didn't make that clear. sent you a PM in hope to explain myself further, love to you and yours.
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Post by LJG on Aug 16, 2016 11:21:19 GMT
Without wanting to hi-jack the thread there's no way I can agree that there's no such thing as people who don't simply choose to do bad things. To say otherwise absolves every criminal person of any culpability for their actions. I don't agree that that is right. Without wishing to make a judgement on you as obviously I don't know you; in my experience the people who say that sort of thing have not had lives significantly impacted by mental health issues. All a sensitive topic so I'm not judging anyone or having a rant. Also only tenuously Rovers related. I would like to see football clubs do something in the community related to mental health issues since its such an issue for young men. We have kick racism out and rainbow laces for LGBT, we could equally have a Mental Health Stigma Day. Pull Yer Socks UP for Mental Health or something ... I dunno. Sorry, did a fail at being philosophical. I agree that bad things can be done, but some things are beyond bad. didn't make that clear. sent you a PM in hope to explain myself further, love to you and yours. No offence whatsoever. All good and necessary, open discussion on a tricky topic. Cheers bud.
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Post by inee on Aug 16, 2016 12:36:07 GMT
What a pair of idiots...
I don't think someone in a stable state of mind can murder, it isn't 'normal' especially the way in which these crimes have been carried out, therefore perhaps they have a penchant for violence and their brains aren't functioning in the correct way. www.livescience.com/22302-mass-killers-psychopaths-mental-illness.html There's no such thing as good and evil, that was made up to create order and values in a disorganized society, there's just people who conform to what we think is right or wrong. So perhaps the sane ones are the crazy ones...
I would have a rant about the total lack of funding for mental health, which I think would solve a lot of problems in society, but this thread seems to be about people on drugs so I'll abstain! will answer bit in bold first Start one over in general as these discutions tend to be fascinating , this topic and my responses are based on the fact that many immediately said both were mental, it only became apparent to some that it involved drugs when someone posted a bit about a child being bopped and drugs on the floor The thing is what is normal behaviour, as in what is imprinted in our brains since humans first arrived, it's like a lion knows it's a lion and how to behave as one, as in you could raise and train a lion cub but you will never remove that lions instinct to kill ,likewise look at a fox a fox will kill regardless of whether its hungry or not and will not just kill say one chicken but all in it's sights ,the reason is it seems to be implanted in those animals brains, other animals will kill but can be trained to not kill dogs for example ,whereas a cat will do what it wants no matter how hard you try to train it not too. I will always maintain that everyone's brain is wired differently, i think some peoples brains function on a more primal level than others, not because they are necessarily ill, more because it's a deeply ingrained function we all have the capability of. Edit Bollix most of this post has disappeared, even my fookin PC hates me grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Post by inee on Aug 16, 2016 12:42:15 GMT
we could equally have a Mental Health Stigma Day. Pull Yer Socks UP for Mental Health or something ... I dunno. What are you a 70's doctor pull yer bloody socks up indeed. Just josin over the words, but i tell ee what, that's a damn good title as it's a slap in the face to those doctors who in the past and even now believe some forms of mental illness can be cured that way If only i had a quid for every time a doctor said this to me over the years
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Post by mftc on Aug 16, 2016 12:56:15 GMT
Nathan doesn't go to games anymore.
Unfortunately too many "so called friends" got him plastered and then goaded him into doing stupid things. I once heard he was told by "his friends" at an away game that a steward spat at his hero Lewis Haldane, so a very drunk Nathan went chasing after the steward and got chucked out. His so called mates thought that was very funny.
There are lots of things that make me proud of the club and its supporters, but a few idiots just used Nathan like a court jester just to get a cheap laugh. He WAS a Rovers fan through and through and voluntarily helped the club, (assisted the ground staff etc) but he got let down by some "friends", so doesn't bother anymore.
Last time I saw him was a few years ago. He was clean shaven and had a decent haircut, wore trousers and shirt and said he was working in a post team in an office near Park Street. Good on him!
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Post by LJG on Aug 16, 2016 13:03:18 GMT
we could equally have a Mental Health Stigma Day. Pull Yer Socks UP for Mental Health or something ... I dunno. What are you a 70's doctor pull yer bloody socks up indeed. Just josin over the words, but i tell ee what, that's a damn good title as it's a slap in the face to those doctors who in the past and even now believe some forms of mental illness can be cured that way If only i had a quid for every time a doctor said this to me over the years Ha exactly. Perhaps something that would highlight that it's the people who need to understand mental health better who need to pull their socks up and not the person with the issue. Just a silly off the cuff idea really but there's no reason the club shouldn't do something for awareness.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 16, 2016 13:22:31 GMT
What are you a 70's doctor pull yer bloody socks up indeed. Just josin over the words, but i tell ee what, that's a damn good title as it's a slap in the face to those doctors who in the past and even now believe some forms of mental illness can be cured that way If only i had a quid for every time a doctor said this to me over the years Ha exactly. Perhaps something that would highlight that it's the people who need to understand mental health better who need to pull their socks up and not the person with the issue. Just a silly off the cuff idea really but there's no reason the club shouldn't do something for awareness. Given that successive cross party governments have done f**k all to help improve the lives of people with mental health issues (and in many cases actually made things much worse) I can't see the club could do much other than raise improved awareness. Education needs to happen in schools and the mainstream media needs to change massively how it reports, deals with and portrays mental health. We are fed a diet of lies and misinformation compounded by endless lazy stereotypes. On top of that people who are able to access treatment have little option but to become career patients thereby reinforcing negative stereotyping further. Getting treatment can be a lottery and once you've experianced the difficulty in accessesing mental health services there is an understandable worry that if you get well and move on there will be no one there should you need support again in the future. All that and we've barely scratched the surface of stigma, lack of mental health training at GP and A&E etc. It's a bloody mess.
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Post by lpgas on Aug 16, 2016 14:14:07 GMT
I have step daughter who is hospitalised almost on a monthly basis. To add to this she has a degenerative disease that will force her in to a wheelchair. She has a blue badge on her car, which she rarely uses (the car that is) but she often gets comments on "Nothing wrong with her". It's not what you see, it's what you know
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Post by LJG on Aug 16, 2016 14:30:05 GMT
Ha exactly. Perhaps something that would highlight that it's the people who need to understand mental health better who need to pull their socks up and not the person with the issue. Just a silly off the cuff idea really but there's no reason the club shouldn't do something for awareness. Given that successive cross party governments have done f**k all to help improve the lives of people with mental health issues (and in many cases actually made things much worse) I can't see the club could do much other than raise improved awareness. Education needs to happen in schools and the mainstream media needs to change massively how it reports, deals with and portrays mental health. We are fed a diet of lies and misinformation compounded by endless lazy stereotypes. On top of that people who are able to access treatment have little option but to become career patients thereby reinforcing negative stereotyping further. Getting treatment can be a lottery and once you've experianced the difficulty in accessesing mental health services there is an understandable worry that if you get well and move on there will be no one there should you need support again in the future. All that and we've barely scratched the surface of stigma, lack of mental health training at GP and A&E etc. It's a bloody mess. Agree wholesale. Not to mention the fact that families of sufferers are totally ignored in every conceivable way.
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Post by scoobydoogas on Aug 16, 2016 16:52:56 GMT
Surely not I haven't seen Nathan at a game for a few years?? Whatever happened to Nathan Brown? Is Nathan Brown the same Nathan that was the entertaining kid that stood at the front of the Blackthorn and often jumped around topless waving his shirt above his head? I remember him doing the conga at Exeter a few years back. If so, I don't know what he does now but he is still around cos I bumped into him in one of the streets around the back of Cabot Circus a few weeks back. He seemed as popular there as he was in the Blackthorn cos everybody that passed seemed to say hello to him.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Aug 16, 2016 17:45:12 GMT
I’m sure there is more than enough government money out there to deal with real mental health issues but we live in a nanny state where everything is someone else’s fault and clog the systems up dealing with depression, stress & anxieties. Try living or visiting less developed countries where the people have a lot of real reasons to be depressed, stressed or suffer anxieties but there they are all diagnosed as ‘life’ and people get on with it. Here in the soft, pc, nanny state, westernised world we couldn’t possibly just get on with life. You can add to my gripes above the NHS offering most IVF treatments and Dam tattoo removals. In short both the health service & welfare system is overloaded by malingerers & frauds which just stops resources being directed to those that really do need them.
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Post by inee on Aug 16, 2016 17:56:40 GMT
Ha exactly. Perhaps something that would highlight that it's the people who need to understand mental health better who need to pull their socks up and not the person with the issue. Just a silly off the cuff idea really but there's no reason the club shouldn't do something for awareness. Given that successive cross party governments have done f**k all to help improve the lives of people with mental health issues (and in many cases actually made things much worse) I can't see the club could do much other than raise improved awareness. Education needs to happen in schools and the mainstream media needs to change massively how it reports, deals with and portrays mental health. We are fed a diet of lies and misinformation compounded by endless lazy stereotypes. On top of that people who are able to access treatment have little option but to become career patients thereby reinforcing negative stereotyping further. Getting treatment can be a lottery and once you've experianced the difficulty in accessesing mental health services there is an understandable worry that if you get well and move on there will be no one there should you need support again in the future. All that and we've barely scratched the surface of stigma, lack of mental health training at GP and A&E etc. It's a bloody mess. I though football tried to do something as it became apparent a while back of the issues a few players went through. Hugo, i kinda agree about governments, however mental health care is slowly improving(slowly being the operative word) ,remember it wasn't that long ago that people could get sent to a mental hospital for a variety of things which were perfectly normal, ie getting up the duff out of wedlock, not toeing the line even the royals locked some of em up i think the most recent was a relative of the queen.(cant for the life of me remember her name but i think she died a while back). To me the good thing is that more people are aware of mental issue now than ever before, partly down to adverts ,leaflets in gp surgeries and just people being a bit more open , school can try and educate all they want but most kids won't listen, until they meet someone who has an illness , on a more positive(ish) side more people with some form of mental illness are being integrated into schools, however the schools need to reinforce that mental illness takes many forms and is unique to the sufferer, what i mean by that is kids need to be informed that the kid sat at the back or front lining up everything on their desk, the kid chatting to themselves, the kid who bashes his head against the wall even the kid who can't settle and trusts no one, is in all probability suffering the same pain with their thoughts about themselves, they also need educating that these illnesses can come on at any time in life not only from physical damage. The subject of reporting of mental health by the media can in some way be blamed on the powers that be, and to an extent political correctness, what i mean by that is in a previous post i mentioned how world wide any one committing a violent act against several people at once is now deemed mental, but and i stress but if that was the case there would be a broad cross section of religions committing these crimes, not in the main just one religion, it's a means to an end lets not send people into a blind panic and reveal the truth , instead lets say they were mental even if there is no evidence to support it as you say it easy and lazy ,in the minds of those in charge it's the lesser of 2 evils. In the main these days GP's are more open to admitting the fact that someone may be suffering from a mental illness than ever before , for years i was told pull your socks up, pull yourself together, stop being a big girls blouse, by GP's so like many you just got on and descended deeper and deeper into the black dog or what ever you were suffering from, or even being told ,ok we will make you an appointment over stoke park(for those to young to know stoke park it was a loonie bin on the edge of lockleaze the dower house is still there but the grounds are now a housing estate) and see whats up ,which in turn meant you would say nah tis alright i'm ok. I'm lucky now as i have a great GP and fantastic support on this forum and some one to one support from others, The thorny subject of access to mental health treatment is easy if you know how, but the reality is many people who are ill and their families do not know how to get the services they need , god forbid you are suffering and living alone as unless someone notices ,it is difficult to get help as lets face it ,looking for help is the last thing on most people minds.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2016 17:58:57 GMT
I’m sure there is more than enough government money out there to deal with real mental health issues but we live in a nanny state where everything is someone else’s fault and clog the systems up dealing with depression, stress & anxieties. Try living or visiting less developed countries where the people have a lot of real reasons to be depressed, stressed or suffer anxieties but there they are all diagnosed as ‘life’ and people get on with it. Here in the soft, pc, nanny state, westernised world we couldn’t possibly just get on with life. You can add to my gripes above the NHS offering most IVF treatments and f**king tattoo removals. In short both the health service & welfare system is overloaded by malingerers & frauds which just stops resources being directed to those that really do need them. Sometimes "just getting on with life" can be a bridge too far, and ending your life becomes the preferred option.
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Post by Okebournegas on Aug 16, 2016 18:10:49 GMT
I’m sure there is more than enough government money out there to deal with real mental health issues but we live in a nanny state where everything is someone else’s fault and clog the systems up dealing with depression, stress & anxieties. Try living or visiting less developed countries where the people have a lot of real reasons to be depressed, stressed or suffer anxieties but there they are all diagnosed as ‘life’ and people get on with it. Here in the soft, pc, nanny state, westernised world we couldn’t possibly just get on with life. You can add to my gripes above the NHS offering most IVF treatments and f**king tattoo removals. In short both the health service & welfare system is overloaded by malingerers & frauds which just stops resources being directed to those that really do need them. I really hope that I am totally misinterpreting what you have said in regards to people with anxiety, stress and depression when you say "getting on with it". Can you explain what you mean by this?
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Post by inee on Aug 16, 2016 18:14:01 GMT
I’m sure there is more than enough government money out there to deal with real mental health issues but we live in a nanny state where everything is someone else’s fault and clog the systems up dealing with depression, stress & anxieties. Try living or visiting less developed countries where the people have a lot of real reasons to be depressed, stressed or suffer anxieties but there they are all diagnosed as ‘life’ and people get on with it. Here in the soft, pc, nanny state, westernised world we couldn’t possibly just get on with life. You can add to my gripes above the NHS offering most IVF treatments and f**king tattoo removals. In short both the health service & welfare system is overloaded by malingerers & frauds which just stops resources being directed to those that really do need them. So prey tell what is a real mental health issue, have you ever suffered from depression or stress , and i don't mean feeling a bit off for a day or 2 i mean real depression, whilst we are at it should we also not treat fat people, smokers, people who have breathing problems because they worked in a dangerous occupation in the past. To be brutally honest i don't give a flying f**k about other countries or developing countries ,that have been f**ked up over the years by idiots who think they care and send money willy nilly, thinking it helps but all it does is f**k those countries up even more. Why shouldn't people be offered ivf if needed, i agree about things like tattoo removal you want it removed you sort it out. Ah so every single person who claims benefit is a malingerer and fraud, as you seem more concerned with people abroad, maybe we should not allow any into this country, not allow them access to health care ,not allow them any form of benefit,as lets be totally brutal and honest here, if anyone comes from a developing country to the uk, they will by your post become members of the soft westernised,pc,nanny state. i do hope you never find yourself unemployed or ill or needing help from the dss as im sure such a proud upstanding person such as yourself will refuse all help
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Post by countygroundhotel on Aug 16, 2016 18:22:01 GMT
I’m sure there is more than enough government money out there to deal with real mental health issues but we live in a nanny state where everything is someone else’s fault and clog the systems up dealing with depression, stress & anxieties. Try living or visiting less developed countries where the people have a lot of real reasons to be depressed, stressed or suffer anxieties but there they are all diagnosed as ‘life’ and people get on with it. Here in the soft, pc, nanny state, westernised world we couldn’t possibly just get on with life. You can add to my gripes above the NHS offering most IVF treatments and f**king tattoo removals. In short both the health service & welfare system is overloaded by malingerers & frauds which just stops resources being directed to those that really do need them. I really hope that I am totally misinterpreting what you have said in regards to people with anxiety, stress and depression when you say "getting on with it". Can you explain what you mean by this? Don't think you have no. Very simple where people are willing to hold your hand & tell you everything is ok then people will play up to it. As I said in less developed countries, you know ones with real problems like where to get money for your next meal, yep they just get on with life sometimes with a smile, sometimes without a smile. But for them there is no luxury of time if they don't help themselves no-one else will & incredibly the vast majority live without all the help offered to people here with depression, stress (oh how I laugh at that one) & anxieties. Though having said that I suspect this is one of those debates on here that your only allowed an opinion on if you agree with the crowd.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Aug 16, 2016 18:26:18 GMT
I’m sure there is more than enough government money out there to deal with real mental health issues but we live in a nanny state where everything is someone else’s fault and clog the systems up dealing with depression, stress & anxieties. Try living or visiting less developed countries where the people have a lot of real reasons to be depressed, stressed or suffer anxieties but there they are all diagnosed as ‘life’ and people get on with it. Here in the soft, pc, nanny state, westernised world we couldn’t possibly just get on with life. You can add to my gripes above the NHS offering most IVF treatments and f**king tattoo removals. In short both the health service & welfare system is overloaded by malingerers & frauds which just stops resources being directed to those that really do need them. So prey tell what is a real mental health issue, have you ever suffered from depression or stress , and i don't mean feeling a bit off for a day or 2 i mean real depression, whilst we are at it should we also not treat fat people, smokers, people who have breathing problems because they worked in a dangerous occupation in the past. To be brutally honest i don't give a flying f**k about other countries or developing countries , that have been f**ked up over the years by idiots who think they care and send money willy nilly, thinking it helps but all it does is f**k those countries up even more. Why shouldn't people be offered ivf if needed, i agree about things like tattoo removal you want it removed you sort it out. Ah so every single person who claims benefit is a malingerer and fraud, as you seem more concerned with people abroad, maybe we should not allow any into this country, not allow them access to health care ,not allow them any form of benefit,as lets be totally brutal and honest here, if anyone comes from a developing country to the uk, they will by your post become members of the soft westernised,pc,nanny state. i do hope you never find yourself unemployed or ill or needing help from the dss as im sure such a proud upstanding person such as yourself will refuse all help Obviously you chose not to read the bit I highlighted before launching into an ideological rant, though I'm not sure if it's a left wing or right wing ideology you're spouting. Though the bit you said that I highlighted is spot on, easily seen if spending time in the countries it is directed to.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Aug 16, 2016 18:27:34 GMT
Did anyone in the Thatchers end know what was going on with the topless kid who was arguing with security guards throughout the second half, the crowd then started chanting how embarrassing he was. Was that a city fan or an Oxford fan in out end?? Why would a ted pay £20 to stand with us? then take on the world, and probably get himself banned from bs3 as well? classy bird mind ha ha one paid 30 to stand with Grimsby at Wembley. I've got a nice photograph on my wall of him in the background watching mansells penalty fly in. Cheers mate whoever you are you prize plum. You make that photograph even sweeter.
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