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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 19, 2016 7:48:33 GMT
Brilliant post.People don't agree with you CGH because you are totally wrong and misguided. Those who suffer with mental health issues DO GET ON WITH IT. Churchill got on with it winning the war, but he still had depression because GETTING ON WITH IT DOESNT CURE DEPRESSION. I find CGH's remarks such as 'It's very simple' and a 'nanny state offensive and stupid. I find it totally laughable how he thinks he can go to another country and know that people aren't depressed. It's a fact that mental illness isn't to do with the outside world but the inside world. So his remarks about nearby earthquakes and imminent dangers shows how little he knows about mental health as it has no connection with this. He does remind of the saying, 'Some people want to save the world, but they couldn't care less about the bloke next door' I think CGH you should apologise for your stupid remarks, ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH OR WEAK? Sorry apologise for thinking that the health & welfare systems would be better able to help those who really need help if they weren't clogged up with malingerers and frauds? Well if others are happy with that situation then don't complain about a lack of funding. We live in a country that has everything people need to live a good & happy life, plenty of others live in countries where it is a struggle to even get the very basics of life, like clean water, so I'll apologies if it offends people that I think they have a lot more cause to be depressed or stressed than people living in our nanny state (perfectly illustrated by yesterday's debate over an obesity strategy). Still I did call it correct that you can't have an opinion on the subject unless you agree with the herd. I'd also say that it's people with attitudes like yours that stops people admitting they have a problem and getting the help they need.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Aug 19, 2016 7:59:40 GMT
Sorry apologise for thinking that the health & welfare systems would be better able to help those who really need help if they weren't clogged up with malingerers and frauds? Well if others are happy with that situation then don't complain about a lack of funding. We live in a country that has everything people need to live a good & happy life, plenty of others live in countries where it is a struggle to even get the very basics of life, like clean water, so I'll apologies if it offends people that I think they have a lot more cause to be depressed or stressed than people living in our nanny state (perfectly illustrated by yesterday's debate over an obesity strategy). Still I did call it correct that you can't have an opinion on the subject unless you agree with the herd. I'd also say that it's people with attitudes like yours that stops people admitting they have a problem and getting the help they need. Hasn't stopped plenty of people I've worked with and known claiming depression and stress though. A very small few of those have had real issues for most things just weren't going their way so the easy option was to claim depression or stress.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Aug 19, 2016 8:05:23 GMT
Sorry apologise for thinking that the health & welfare systems would be better able to help those who really need help if they weren't clogged up with malingerers and frauds? Well if others are happy with that situation then don't complain about a lack of funding. We live in a country that has everything people need to live a good & happy life, plenty of others live in countries where it is a struggle to even get the very basics of life, like clean water, so I'll apologies if it offends people that I think they have a lot more cause to be depressed or stressed than people living in our nanny state (perfectly illustrated by yesterday's debate over an obesity strategy). Still I did call it correct that you can't have an opinion on the subject unless you agree with the herd. The thing is, as with football, I tend to think that the people whose job it is to know something will know more about that thing than I do. So for example I might think DC made a mistake changing the starting 11 on Tuesday but hey ... which one of us manages a LG 1 club? For me it's the same with medicine and that includes mental health. Doctors, researchers, psychologists and psychiatrists all over the world including the countries you've named think the opposite to you. They think that based on decades of scientific research and experience. So, you might think differently but hey ... which one of you and them is best placed to make that call? So the medical profession the world over have followed the herd. The head of the herd in this case, of course, is scientific fact and not just what some bloke on a football forum reckons. Yep the experts know everything and have never created a 'demand' for their services. I'm sure you'd agree the world wouldn't continue turning without the likes of management consultants and political lobbyists. In the meantime people in less developed countries people survive and get on with life without psychologists and the like, can't imagine many of them turn up for work, if they have work, and ask for time off with stress
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 19, 2016 8:32:44 GMT
I'd also say that it's people with attitudes like yours that stops people admitting they have a problem and getting the help they need. Hasn't stopped plenty of people I've worked with and known claiming depression and stress though. A very small few of those have had real issues for most things just weren't going their way so the easy option was to claim depression or stress. Ah, stress. Yeah I'm much more inclined to side with you on that old chestnut. Loads and loads off people pull a sickie due to stress when there is little to nothing wrong. Most of the people here are talking about proper diagnosed depression not someone wanting a week off work.
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Post by countygroundhotel on Aug 19, 2016 8:37:01 GMT
Hasn't stopped plenty of people I've worked with and known claiming depression and stress though. A very small few of those have had real issues for most things just weren't going their way so the easy option was to claim depression or stress. Ah, stress. Yeah I'm much more inclined to side with you on that old chestnut. Loads and loads off people pull a sickie due to stress when there is little to nothing wrong. Most of the people here are talking about proper diagnosed depression not someone wanting a week off work. And it all clogs up the system diverting resources away from those that really need them, a point I've made consistently in this thread but no-one has chosen to read. I've also consistently talked about depression, stress and anxiety but hey it seems the only mental illness people want to talk about is depression but that is their choice on a public forum
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Post by faggotygas on Aug 19, 2016 8:42:00 GMT
Brilliant post.People don't agree with you CGH because you are totally wrong and misguided. Those who suffer with mental health issues DO GET ON WITH IT. Churchill got on with it winning the war, but he still had depression because GETTING ON WITH IT DOESNT CURE DEPRESSION. I find CGH's remarks such as 'It's very simple' and a 'nanny state offensive and stupid. I find it totally laughable how he thinks he can go to another country and know that people aren't depressed. It's a fact that mental illness isn't to do with the outside world but the inside world. So his remarks about nearby earthquakes and imminent dangers shows how little he knows about mental health as it has no connection with this. He does remind of the saying, 'Some people want to save the world, but they couldn't care less about the bloke next door' I think CGH you should apologise for your stupid remarks, ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH OR WEAK? Sorry apologise for thinking that the health & welfare systems would be better able to help those who really need help if they weren't clogged up with malingerers and frauds? Well if others are happy with that situation then don't complain about a lack of funding. We live in a country that has everything people need to live a good & happy life, plenty of others live in countries where it is a struggle to even get the very basics of life, like clean water, so I'll apologies if it offends people that I think they have a lot more cause to be depressed or stressed than people living in our nanny state (perfectly illustrated by yesterday's debate over an obesity strategy). Still I did call it correct that you can't have an opinion on the subject unless you agree with the herd. I've said to you so many times in the past CGH, of course you are allowed an opinion, but people with a different opinion are allowed to disageree with you, and state why. Otherwise forums would just be a list of single-post threads.
Anyway - are you saying that all those people I listed were malingerers and frauds?
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Post by faggotygas on Aug 19, 2016 8:43:56 GMT
The thing is, as with football, I tend to think that the people whose job it is to know something will know more about that thing than I do. So for example I might think DC made a mistake changing the starting 11 on Tuesday but hey ... which one of us manages a LG 1 club? For me it's the same with medicine and that includes mental health. Doctors, researchers, psychologists and psychiatrists all over the world including the countries you've named think the opposite to you. They think that based on decades of scientific research and experience. So, you might think differently but hey ... which one of you and them is best placed to make that call? So the medical profession the world over have followed the herd. The head of the herd in this case, of course, is scientific fact and not just what some bloke on a football forum reckons. Yep the experts know everything and have never created a 'demand' for their services. I'm sure you'd agree the world wouldn't continue turning without the likes of management consultants and political lobbyists. In the meantime people in less developed countries people survive and get on with life without psychologists and the like, can't imagine many of them turn up for work, if they have work, and ask for time off with stress No, they just decend into alcohol or drug abuse, or simply kill themselves instead.
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Post by LJG on Aug 19, 2016 8:48:23 GMT
The thing is, as with football, I tend to think that the people whose job it is to know something will know more about that thing than I do. So for example I might think DC made a mistake changing the starting 11 on Tuesday but hey ... which one of us manages a LG 1 club? For me it's the same with medicine and that includes mental health. Doctors, researchers, psychologists and psychiatrists all over the world including the countries you've named think the opposite to you. They think that based on decades of scientific research and experience. So, you might think differently but hey ... which one of you and them is best placed to make that call? So the medical profession the world over have followed the herd. The head of the herd in this case, of course, is scientific fact and not just what some bloke on a football forum reckons. Yep the experts know everything and have never created a 'demand' for their services. I'm sure you'd agree the world wouldn't continue turning without the likes of management consultants and political lobbyists. In the meantime people in less developed countries people survive and get on with life without psychologists and the like, can't imagine many of them turn up for work, if they have work, and ask for time off with stress If you don't believe the experts you won't want to go to a Dr the next time you're ill then will you? Because guess what ... They DO believe the experts. And if your Doc is wrong about that what else are they wrong about? Stay at home if I were you. I'm sure you can figure out your own diagnosis based on what you reckon. I still don't understand why you keep repeating what is clearly wrong about less developed countries not believing in mental illness. Poor countries DO have mental health professionals. They might not have the same capacity and resources western countries have but that doesn't mean they don't believe science behind it. Look at drug and alcohol addiction rates in the slums of Delhi. Look at the rates of recreational barbiturate use in Somalia.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 19, 2016 8:55:11 GMT
Ah, stress. Yeah I'm much more inclined to side with you on that old chestnut. Loads and loads off people pull a sickie due to stress when there is little to nothing wrong. Most of the people here are talking about proper diagnosed depression not someone wanting a week off work. And it all clogs up the system diverting resources away from those that really need them, a point I've made consistently in this thread but no-one has chosen to read. I've also consistently talked about depression, stress and anxiety but hey it seems the only mental illness people want to talk about is depression but that is their choice on a public forum The problem is that these people need to seen and dealt with because mind anxiety and depression can lead to deeper problems if left untreated. Anyone seeking help from a GP isn't clogging up the system, they are making appropriate use of it. Again it appears you are making generalizations. People who phone in sick and claim stress may well be malingerers. People who access public health care for stress anxiety and depression are not all trying it on and to suggest so is somewhat misguided.
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Post by althepirate on Aug 19, 2016 9:54:16 GMT
CGH you are digging a hole for yourself as people are queuing up to disagree with you. All you can seem to reply is the same incorrect rubbish that you spouted pages ago.You seem incapable of expanding the debate with facts you just have your completely wrong opinions. As 1 in 5 suffer mental illness I would think that your family members and friends would have been affected, if so how did you cope with that? Did you call on them and tell them they are wasters and that people in poor countries don't suffer MI.If so did your friend or family member suddenly become well again as if by magic? My father had a breakdown when I was 8 years old, he worked incredibly hard physically in his occupation for an average of 50 hours a week over his working life, he was a very strong, kind and compassionate man. I personally have experienced anxiety and depression (I personally believe anxiety to be more of a factor in MI than is realised but that is just my opinion) I have in my life stood on my own two feet and was self employed for 30 years, I then spent 10 years helping people with mental health problems. These people were a cross section of the wealth spectrum and all of them were getting on with it, didn't want to be ill and not one of them was a mallingerer, to call them this is insulting, offensive and unintelligent. My wife spent five years helping the homeless. The homeless are not a group they are individuals whose individual problems have resulted in them being in the position they are. Mental illness affects a person's intellect and can and does lead the sufferer to make the wrong decisions for example using drink or drugs to alleviate the mental pain they are suffering. People like yourself who come along with absolutely no understanding or compassion will pour further guilt and shame onto them on top of what they already feel and this makes the situation not only worse but virtually impossible. In any group or organisation people abuse the situation, all groups from bent coppers to priests who abuse young children. Thankfully these are a small percentage and not the norm. Please do not take this small percentage and call it the norm as this is not reality. I would like you to expand your argument above the three repetitive answers and to also know what day to day experience you have of mental health? As I said people are a queuing up to disagree with you because you are not facing reality and that is weakness not strength
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Post by countygroundhotel on Aug 19, 2016 11:09:29 GMT
People on here are happy to accept everyone clogging up the health and welfare system are genuine, that isn't the case but feel free to believe it. I just happen to think those people are taking resources and services that are genuinely needed by others. You'll all just have to accept that in that circumstance there will never be enough resources. Hey how but why address that problem?
I'm also accused of generalisations, accepted, but others are claiming all suicides are because of mental illness and alcohol & drug abuse is all down to mental illness. Seems some generalisations are accepted then, even when blatantly wrong. But a forum would never exist without hypocrites.
Still I'm going to leave it there as I said at the start certain opinions aren't accepted or welcome on some subjects.
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Post by Dr Gas on Aug 19, 2016 11:10:10 GMT
CGH you are digging a hole for yourself as people are queuing up to disagree with you. All you can seem to reply is the same incorrect rubbish that you spouted pages ago.You seem incapable of expanding the debate with facts you just have your completely wrong opinions. As 1 in 5 suffer mental illness I would think that your family members and friends would have been affected, if so how did you cope with that? Did you call on them and tell them they are wasters and that people in poor countries don't suffer MI.If so did your friend or family member suddenly become well again as if by magic? My father had a breakdown when I was 8 years old, he worked incredibly hard physically in his occupation for an average of 50 hours a week over his working life, he was a very strong, kind and compassionate man. I personally have experienced anxiety and depression (I personally believe anxiety to be more of a factor in MI than is realised but that is just my opinion) I have in my life stood on my own two feet and was self employed for 30 years, I then spent 10 years helping people with mental health problems. These people were a cross section of the wealth spectrum and all of them were getting on with it, didn't want to be ill and not one of them was a mallingerer, to call them this is insulting, offensive and unintelligent. My wife spent five years helping the homeless. The homeless are not a group they are individuals whose individual problems have resulted in them being in the position they are. Mental illness affects a person's intellect and can and does lead the sufferer to make the wrong decisions for example using drink or drugs to alleviate the mental pain they are suffering. People like yourself who come along with absolutely no understanding or compassion will pour further guilt and shame onto them on top of what they already feel and this makes the situation not only worse but virtually impossible. In any group or organisation people abuse the situation, all groups from bent coppers to priests who abuse young children. Thankfully these are a small percentage and not the norm. Please do not take this small percentage and call it the norm as this is not reality. I would like you to expand your argument above the three repetitive answers and to also know what day to day experience you have of mental health? As I said people are a queuing up to disagree with you because you are not facing reality and that is weakness not strength Mental health does not exist for CGH. Although, methinks he suffers from Walter Mitty syndrome.
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Post by Dr Gas on Aug 19, 2016 11:15:19 GMT
People on here are happy to accept everyone clogging up the health and welfare system are genuine, that isn't the case but feel free to believe it. I just happen to think those people are taking resources and services that are genuinely needed by others. You'll all just have to accept that in that circumstance there will never be enough resources. Hey how but why address that problem? I'm also accused of generalisations, accepted, but others are claiming all suicides are because of mental illness and alcohol & drug abuse is all down to mental illness. Seems some generalisations are accepted then, even when blatantly wrong. But a forum would never exist without hypocrites. Still I'm going to leave it there as I said at the start certain opinions aren't accepted or welcome on some subjects. You really twist things to suit yourself! I do not see that anyone other than you has classed any people who seek medical help for mental illness in a 100% group. Obviously there are some people who know various symptoms etc and trot them out to their doctor so that they can get diagnosed as being ill, but that applies to all forms of illness and injuries.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 19, 2016 11:18:29 GMT
People on here are happy to accept everyone clogging up the health and welfare system are genuine, that isn't the case but feel free to believe it. I just happen to think those people are taking resources and services that are genuinely needed by others. You'll all just have to accept that in that circumstance there will never be enough resources. Hey how but why address that problem? I'm also accused of generalisations, accepted, but others are claiming all suicides are because of mental illness and alcohol & drug abuse is all down to mental illness. Seems some generalisations are accepted then, even when blatantly wrong. But a forum would never exist without hypocrites. Still I'm going to leave it there as I said at the start certain opinions aren't accepted or welcome on some subjects. I was, (and my wife still is) a mental health care professional. Judging by some of the responses I'd guess I'm not the only one.
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Post by lpgas on Aug 19, 2016 11:28:54 GMT
Obviously you chose not to read the bit I highlighted before launching into an ideological rant, though I'm not sure if it's a left wing or right wing ideology you're spouting. Though the bit you said that I highlighted is spot on, easily seen if spending time in the countries it is directed to. thing is we could disagree forever ,but do you actually know anyone who suffers from depression or other illnesses, i really would love to be able to trade a few days with you so you could feel the self loathing and uselessness i feel, so you could feel the actual relief i feel when i cut myself ,would you also like to feel the utter disgust and hatred i feel for myself that i have held onto for over 40 years,just because some fecking poof decided that i wanted it as a child, would you also like to understand what it feels like to lock yourself away and swallow a whole months worth of medication because in the mind there is no other way to escape the pin that you have, only then to throw up and recover, the feeling that you are so f**kin useless you cant even kill yourself ,followed by the guilt when you realise how other would feel if you achieved it, then the feelings when all logic goes out of the window and you try again. The feeling of relief that comes when your punching or headbutting a wall till you so exhausted you can't carry on, the absolute joy you feel when you manage to do something constructive, only to be followed by such a down for a few days that you wish you would have an heart attack and die as it would be a nice way out
Those feeling of utter contempt for yourself when you cant get a job after having worked continually from when you left school till your nearly 50, yes i have been hungry and haven't had food for days on end ,and to be honest i would rather be in that situation then the one i find myself in. You have just described my step daughter. She has set up a Facebook community, although she is in hospital more often than not. It's called FIT (Facing illness together)
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Post by Okebournegas on Aug 19, 2016 11:51:35 GMT
People on here are happy to accept everyone clogging up the health and welfare system are genuine, that isn't the case but feel free to believe it. I just happen to think those people are taking resources and services that are genuinely needed by others. You'll all just have to accept that in that circumstance there will never be enough resources. Hey how but why address that problem? I'm also accused of generalisations, accepted, but others are claiming all suicides are because of mental illness and alcohol & drug abuse is all down to mental illness. Seems some generalisations are accepted then, even when blatantly wrong. But a forum would never exist without hypocrites. Still I'm going to leave it there as I said at the start certain opinions aren't accepted or welcome on some subjects. Nice back tracking ! Enough said
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Post by LJG on Aug 19, 2016 12:26:59 GMT
People on here are happy to accept everyone clogging up the health and welfare system are genuine, that isn't the case but feel free to believe it. I just happen to think those people are taking resources and services that are genuinely needed by others. You'll all just have to accept that in that circumstance there will never be enough resources. Hey how but why address that problem? I'm also accused of generalisations, accepted, but others are claiming all suicides are because of mental illness and alcohol & drug abuse is all down to mental illness. Seems some generalisations are accepted then, even when blatantly wrong. But a forum would never exist without hypocrites. Still I'm going to leave it there as I said at the start certain opinions aren't accepted or welcome on some subjects. The trouble is if you have an opinion contrary to universally accepted fact it's difficult not to be fairly comprehensively disagreed with. For example if someone said "sunset tonight is at 21.17" and I said "not in my opinion it's not" then I would have to have pretty solid ground to support that other than "that's what I think".
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Post by inee on Aug 19, 2016 15:19:07 GMT
(1)People on here are happy to accept everyone clogging up the health and welfare system are genuine, that isn't the case but feel free to believe it. I just happen to think those people are taking resources and services that are genuinely needed by others. You'll all just have to accept that in that circumstance there will never be enough resources. Hey how but why address that problem? (2)I'm also accused of generalisations, accepted, but others are claiming all suicides are because of mental illness and alcohol & drug abuse is all down to mental illness. Seems some generalisations are accepted then, even when blatantly wrong. But a forum would never exist without hypocrites. (3)Still I'm going to leave it there as I said at the start certain opinions aren't accepted or welcome on some subjects. (1)I don't think everyone does believe that everyone is genuine,for years i agree people fake illnesses,however these days thankfully a lot of these people get found out in very short order, i also think those people(and i suspect there are more people faking types of illness other than mental illness). But and it's a big but many base their thoughts on others based on the latest news fads. ie if your ill it's fake etc. The Issue Isn't resources, it's more managing those resources, if physical or mental illness is picked up early enough then most can be more effectively treated, at a much lower cost (2)One of the reasons some have posted on this thread is to say much the same as you have said, i always say suicide is not just confined to those with a mental issue, likewise with drug and alcohol, a lot of generalisations are put out by the media, a big bugbear of mine is lately anyone killing someone is classes by the police as having a mental health issue this the becomes a fact to many many people because the police are always right (3)Why leave it there, thing is when you reply like the one i'm answering, they seem ok,the problems come in that you labeled everyone with the same brush, any one with anxiety depression etc were a bunch of malingering frauds ,ie whilst most who have replied on this thread will agree there are some but the vast majority are genuine. For years i had similar views as yours, and to be honest it wasn't until i became ill that i understood , it also allowed me in the clear moments to realise i have been like this for most of my life, and yes like so many people i simply got on with it ,it also explained why i have been a total bastard most of my life ,personally if i had only listened and admitted to my self that something was wrong and got help. This is one of the most common scenarios, deny there's anything wrong, and then unfortunately ,it becomes harder to treat. One good point Hugo makes is you can become ill despite your material worth, i had everything then lost it, do i care nope, it just showed me that having everything you need does not make you, more or less likely to suffer,
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Post by inee on Aug 19, 2016 15:26:23 GMT
I'd also say that it's people with attitudes like yours that stops people admitting they have a problem and getting the help they need. Hasn't stopped plenty of people I've worked with and known claiming depression and stress though. A very small few of those have had real issues for most things just weren't going their way so the easy option was to claim depression or stress. There is a vast difference betwixt those who claim and those who have , these days the people who fake illnesses are getting caught out more often than not but as many have said the media re focusing on those and people are starting to believe that mental illnesses either don't exist or are faked, incidentally there was a program on last night where someone said . Im going to claim for depression blah blah blah it's these scripted programs that leave many to believe wrongly that everyone who claims mental or physical illness are frauds. Being on benefits for the vast majority of people isn't no picnic, it's just enough to get by on as it should be.
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Post by althepirate on Aug 19, 2016 19:28:08 GMT
CGH you are digging a hole for yourself as people are queuing up to disagree with you. All you can seem to reply is the same incorrect rubbish that you spouted pages ago.You seem incapable of expanding the debate with facts you just have your completely wrong opinions. As 1 in 5 suffer mental illness I would think that your family members and friends would have been affected, if so how did you cope with that? Did you call on them and tell them they are wasters and that people in poor countries don't suffer MI.If so did your friend or family member suddenly become well again as if by magic? My father had a breakdown when I was 8 years old, he worked incredibly hard physically in his occupation for an average of 50 hours a week over his working life, he was a very strong, kind and compassionate man. I personally have experienced anxiety and depression (I personally believe anxiety to be more of a factor in MI than is realised but that is just my opinion) I have in my life stood on my own two feet and was self employed for 30 years, I then spent 10 years helping people with mental health problems. These people were a cross section of the wealth spectrum and all of them were getting on with it, didn't want to be ill and not one of them was a mallingerer, to call them this is insulting, offensive and unintelligent. My wife spent five years helping the homeless. The homeless are not a group they are individuals whose individual problems have resulted in them being in the position they are. Mental illness affects a person's intellect and can and does lead the sufferer to make the wrong decisions for example using drink or drugs to alleviate the mental pain they are suffering. People like yourself who come along with absolutely no understanding or compassion will pour further guilt and shame onto them on top of what they already feel and this makes the situation not only worse but virtually impossible. In any group or organisation people abuse the situation, all groups from bent coppers to priests who abuse young children. Thankfully these are a small percentage and not the norm. Please do not take this small percentage and call it the norm as this is not reality. I would like you to expand your argument above the three repetitive answers and to also know what day to day experience you have of mental health? As I said people are a queuing up to disagree with you because you are not facing reality and that is weakness not strength Mental health does not exist for CGH. Although, methinks he suffers from Walter Mitty syndrome. . I see you didn't answer my questions CGH and you still you harp on about abusing the system. I and others agree there is some abuse as nothing is perfect so why keep repeating the same old rhetoric, is it because you have nothing else to say? It appears you have run away now and I thought us compassionate people were softies? Quite the reverse I think.
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