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Post by chippenhamgas on Jan 8, 2017 10:36:12 GMT
If that true then there is only so far we could go so I hope that never happens otherwise it will be league 1 championship yoyo club Nonsense. Without the student accommodation from the original plans and filling in corners rather than using them for blocks of flats we could achieve 22k. Many clubs managing in the prem on that. It's not about capacity it's how you manage the TV money. We have no alternative site lined up. No deal with uwe means wait five years or possibly longer or get started on the mem within 6 months.
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Post by chippenhamgas on Jan 8, 2017 10:38:24 GMT
We own a piece of land, the piece of land we want to buy is too expensive. To find another and follow through to completion would take five years. Pp for a redevelopment at the mem wouldn't be a problem. If uwe falls through it will be mem redevelopment. I agree. A key reason it wasn't an option was to release the value tied up in the land. If we are now rightly looking to buy land, staying put becomes a more viable option again. I can't see that the 3k capacity difference of redeveloped Mem vs UWE is material Mem could be same capacity, move pitch towards east side and from south to north enabling larger south and east stands. Fill in corners (east/north and west/north ).
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Post by daniel300380 on Jan 8, 2017 10:39:40 GMT
The only sensible redevelopment of the old rugby ground site would be to flatten it and build houses. The council now realises this. We own a piece of land, the piece of land we want to buy is too expensive. To find another and follow through to completion would take five years. Pp for a redevelopment at the mem wouldn't be a problem. If uwe falls through it will be mem redevelopment. It costs more to redevelop than it does to build new and it won't be as good! Is the land at Uwe worth a lot more than the mem?? Probably not, so we will sell the mem after, which will pay for the Uwe land. Can't see us redeveloping the mem, Wael is a business man. Over a period of years we make money from a new ground that will easily pay for any difference in price.
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Post by chippenhamgas on Jan 8, 2017 10:41:10 GMT
Unfortunately i think you will find we haven't. Uwe have their advisors telling them exactly what that land is worth and that's what they want. We don't want to pay it. How do you know this?? Sounds like guess work. We might have agreed a price now. Unless you have been taking part in the meetings? If we really want the land and they really want to sell it, they will agree a price somewhere in the middle and for all you know, they might have already. UWE want market value, the pound signs are now in their eyes, especially as they know what they can get on the open market. If they are to have no control or input or derive any benefit from the stadium they may as well sell the land for housing, why would they accept any less from us?
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jan 8, 2017 10:41:23 GMT
We own a piece of land, the piece of land we want to buy is too expensive. To find another and follow through to completion would take five years. Pp for a redevelopment at the mem wouldn't be a problem. If uwe falls through it will be mem redevelopment. I agree. A key reason it wasn't an option was to release the value tied up in the land. If we are now rightly looking to buy land, staying put becomes a more viable option again. I can't see that the 3k capacity difference of redeveloped Mem vs UWE is material That was a 3k capacity difference because we had to find room for a load of student flats on site. If we didn't have to do that there is no reason a 21,000 capacity all seater couldn't be fitted onto the currently owned land.
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Post by Strange Gas on Jan 8, 2017 10:41:24 GMT
If that true then there is only so far we could go so I hope that never happens otherwise it will be league 1 championship yoyo club Nonsense. Without the student accommodation from the original plans and filling in corners rather than using them for blocks of flats we could achieve 22k. Many clubs managing in the prem on that. It's not about capacity it's how you manage the TV money. We have no alternative site lined up. No deal with uwe means wait five years or possibly longer or get started on the mem within 6 months. Loftus Road, Vicarage Road, Fratton Park* all cracking urban grounds at this size. Even Liberty Stadium is similar. *not the reason Pompey are sh**e today
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Post by daniel300380 on Jan 8, 2017 10:43:17 GMT
I agree. A key reason it wasn't an option was to release the value tied up in the land. If we are now rightly looking to buy land, staying put becomes a more viable option again. I can't see that the 3k capacity difference of redeveloped Mem vs UWE is material Mem could be same capacity, move pitch towards east side and from south to north enabling larger south and east stands. Fill in corners (east/north and west/north ). It's nothing to do with the capacity, it is to do with the other facilities that we can fit in at Uwe or a new site. Parking for one lol. Plus gyms, creches, bars, conference centres etc. Plus if needed Uwe can go to 25,000 then 33,000. If we do things the right way, you don't know what we might need in 10 or 20 years down the line.
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Post by Strange Gas on Jan 8, 2017 10:43:40 GMT
I agree. A key reason it wasn't an option was to release the value tied up in the land. If we are now rightly looking to buy land, staying put becomes a more viable option again. I can't see that the 3k capacity difference of redeveloped Mem vs UWE is material That was a 3k capacity difference because we had to find room for a load of student flats on site. If we didn't have to do that there is no reason a 21,000 capacity all seater couldn't be fitted onto the currently owned land. Although I'd imagine access and transport are the capacity constraint not footprint. I think site size is actually bigger than Ashton Gate but access is poor by comparison
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Post by chippenhamgas on Jan 8, 2017 10:44:54 GMT
We own a piece of land, the piece of land we want to buy is too expensive. To find another and follow through to completion would take five years. Pp for a redevelopment at the mem wouldn't be a problem. If uwe falls through it will be mem redevelopment. It costs more to redevelop than it does to build new and it won't be as good! Is the land at Uwe worth a lot more than the mem?? Probably not, so we will sell the mem after, which will pay for the Uwe land. Can't see us redeveloping the mem, Wael is a business man. Over a period of years we make money from a new ground that will easily pay for any difference in price. The uwe site is larger than the mem, there isn't much difference in market value between the two. Uwe want market value or as close as possible, the only benefit in selling to us is the speed of transaction. How much of a reduction could we expect for this, 10%?
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Post by chippenhamgas on Jan 8, 2017 10:46:41 GMT
That was a 3k capacity difference because we had to find room for a load of student flats on site. If we didn't have to do that there is no reason a 21,000 capacity all seater couldn't be fitted onto the currently owned land. Although I'd imagine access and transport are the capacity constraint not footprint. I think site size is actually bigger than Ashton Gate but access is poor by comparison PP would be dependant on a resident's parking scheme being implemented within a ten minute walking radius around the ground. Apart from that no issues.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Jan 8, 2017 10:48:01 GMT
You might be able to redevelop the Mem to a similar capacity but from many other fronts it's a no go - Parking - not suitable for 12k+ and post redevelopment parking schemes would be in effect
- Transport - add in the road and bus networks by UWE/AnotherSite currently in existence or due to come about soon. Mainline rail station in decent proximity.
- Future growth - Al Qadis are ambitious and UWE/AnotherSite allow us to scale
- Synergistic development - retail/hotel etc.
- Club facilities in the stadium itself - Mem wouldn't have much room for all this.
- Plus all the financial angles others have mentioned.
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Post by madgas on Jan 8, 2017 10:48:09 GMT
With rumours that the Ashley down station is opening up - there could well be improved travel network to the mem.
Parking isnt great, but no London club has great parking either. Plus we manage at the moment.
I'd prefer us to build fortress mem however the UWEs posistion offers great commercial opportunities.
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Post by daniel300380 on Jan 8, 2017 10:50:02 GMT
How do you know this?? Sounds like guess work. We might have agreed a price now. Unless you have been taking part in the meetings? If we really want the land and they really want to sell it, they will agree a price somewhere in the middle and for all you know, they might have already. UWE want market value, the pound signs are now in their eyes, especially as they know what they can get on the open market. If they are to have no control or input or derive any benefit from the stadium they may as well sell the land for housing, why would they accept any less from us? Not saying a lot less. But a bit less as it will attract students. It has uni bars, lecture halls etc, unless we are changing that. A lot of reasons that a student might want to go there. Plus a lot of students like football and they know they alone could attract students Even if they wanted the same price as for housing. We can sell the mem for housing. Are the values that different?? Plus at the mem we would have to pay to plan and planning and pay another club to share their ground. Adding it all up it will cost more than Uwe and not be as good. So unless the Uwe land is worth about £30 million more for housing than the mem, it's a big no go lol.
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Post by chippenhamgas on Jan 8, 2017 10:50:21 GMT
Mem could be same capacity, move pitch towards east side and from south to north enabling larger south and east stands. Fill in corners (east/north and west/north ). It's nothing to do with the capacity, it is to do with the other facilities that we can fit in at Uwe or a new site. Parking for one lol. Plus gyms, creches, bars, conference centres etc. Plus if needed Uwe can go to 25,000 then 33,000. If we do things the right way, you don't know what we might need in 10 or 20 years down the line. Yes that would be ideal but we are talking time here, to go back to square one and an open ended time span. Will we ever need 33k? Only in the prem, but many teams survive on sub 30k gates. Watford, West Brom, Swansea, Bournemouth, Stoke etc. The sh** haven't had one gate this season that couldn't have fitted inside the old ashton, and their new ground has novelty value, their crowds will almost certainly fall next year.
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jan 8, 2017 10:51:34 GMT
Much as I would prefer a redeveloped 21,000 capacity Mem to the same at UWE it is obvious from what has been said and done by the new owners that they want to own a peice of land to fit a football stadium and lots of other income generating units such as the situation at MK. It's not clear whether the extra income from the other units would be for the benefit of the FC or the investors, but I suspect the latter. It's doubtful from an investment point of view a redeveloped Mem is that attractive to the investors because of the limited potential for anything else on the site after redeveloping the ground.
Oldgas's update suggests that we are on the closing straight with UWE.
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Post by chippenhamgas on Jan 8, 2017 10:53:00 GMT
UWE want market value, the pound signs are now in their eyes, especially as they know what they can get on the open market. If they are to have no control or input or derive any benefit from the stadium they may as well sell the land for housing, why would they accept any less from us? Not saying a lot less. But a bit less as it will attract students. It has uni bars, lecture halls etc, unless we are changing that. A lot of reasons that a student might want to go there. Plus a lot of students like football and they know they alone could attract students Even if they wanted the same price as for housing. We can sell the mem for housing. Are the values that different?? Plus at the mem we would have to pay to plan and planning and pay another club to share their ground. Adding it all up it will cost more than Uwe and not be as good. So unless the Uwe land is worth about £30 million more for housing than the mem, it's a big no go lol. The mem would be able to be redeveloped without leaving. You would start on the east side and build what would be the biggest stand first over the dribuild like Liverpool did with their new stand. That would then be open first so no capacity reduction.
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Post by chippenhamgas on Jan 8, 2017 10:54:11 GMT
Much as I would prefer a redeveloped 21,000 capacity Mem to the same at UWE it is obvious from what has been said and done by the new owners that they want to own a peice of land to fit a football stadium and lots of other income generating units such as the situation at MK. It's not clear whether the extra income from the other units would be for the benefit of the FC or the investors, but I suspect the latter. It's doubtful from an investment point of view a redeveloped Mem is that attractive to the investors because of the limited potential for anything else on the site after redeveloping the ground. Oldgas's update suggests that we are on the closing straight with UWE. I hope old gas is right. I have heard different.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Jan 8, 2017 10:56:53 GMT
Here's an idea. Swap the Mem for the UWE plot so they can build a massive student housing complex and sports facility right at the top of Gloucester Road. The pitch can be maintained for rugby matches and they'll have a great plot for accommodation.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Jan 8, 2017 10:58:00 GMT
Much as I would prefer a redeveloped 21,000 capacity Mem to the same at UWE it is obvious from what has been said and done by the new owners that they want to own a peice of land to fit a football stadium and lots of other income generating units such as the situation at MK. It's not clear whether the extra income from the other units would be for the benefit of the FC or the investors, but I suspect the latter. It's doubtful from an investment point of view a redeveloped Mem is that attractive to the investors because of the limited potential for anything else on the site after redeveloping the ground. Oldgas's update suggests that we are on the closing straight with UWE. I hope old gas is right. I have heard different. Whom from and when?
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Jan 8, 2017 11:00:11 GMT
The idea that we could build anything bigger than Santa's Grotto at the Mem without clawing through the massed, brain-eating, undead bodies of incensed Horfield residents, endlessly slogging through the revenant corpses of thousands of angry, selfish locals, struggling against a tide of zombie flesh yearning for an allotment-cycle-centre-unicorn-garden development for all eternity, is probably underestimating the scale of the issue.
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