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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Dec 8, 2017 16:20:13 GMT
Why would they comment about something that is nothing to do with them? Literally any reason to have a go isn't it? FFS. They should have made a comment to make it clear that it applies to the previous ownership because the news article suggested it was now! That is why they should have not declined to comment. Ok? The Post article said it as under the last regime quite clearly. For some reason it seems the TV report has chosen to miss that bit out. I don't really see why the club need to make a statement because of that.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Dec 8, 2017 16:21:03 GMT
More excited for another one of those beautys tomorrow than I am for the game! I dread to imagine this after seeing your beard recently.... It's a challenge I admit. Saving some for after the game.
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Post by gregsy on Dec 8, 2017 16:32:21 GMT
I dread to imagine this after seeing your beard recently.... It's a challenge I admit. Saving some for after the game. To be fair those premium sausage rolls are the best thing I've seen at rovers since the 2nd may 1990
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 16:43:11 GMT
I wonder what fine the club had to pay over this issue?
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Dec 8, 2017 16:45:11 GMT
FFS. They should have made a comment to make it clear that it applies to the previous ownership because the news article suggested it was now! That is why they should have not declined to comment. Ok? The Post article said it as under the last regime quite clearly. For some reason it seems the TV report has chosen to miss that bit out. I don't really see why the club need to make a statement because of that. No, far better to let the viewing public think that it's currently going on and that we are in the same shameful league as the likes of Sports Direct. The BBC have misrepresented us and you think that should go unchallenged!
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Post by swissgas on Dec 8, 2017 16:51:19 GMT
The new board clearly inherited a whole heap of problems from the old one which I'm sure has a big effect to this day. The one thing I would like clarity over is how, given that we own our own ground, don't massively overpay on wages and get good attendances, is it so hard for us to ever get anywhere near breaking even? Are there some significant overheads for us somewhere which we don't know about? This isn't a dig. I just would like to understand it. It seems more of a miracle than ever in this context that we survived at Twerton. The Dunfords must have ploughed a lot of money into us at one time or another. Agree May 2nd. Something, somewhere must be wrong, we have 8000 average well above Scunthorpe Rochdale and many others who have half that yet we have no money and struggle. Why? This is not a dig at anyone just a plea for someone to explain why. What historical costs or anything do we have that others don’t. UTG! What is galling for me warehamgas is that when a few of us criticised the old regime for the way they were running Rovers we were told we were "board haters" with a "hidden agenda". In fact, most of us with experience in business were simply trying to point out that there was a better way to go and we wanted Nick Higgs to adopt a more professional approach in the best interests of Rovers. So when something like this minimum wage issue comes up and fans are very quick to hurl abuse at the old board it makes me wonder why, at the time, so many refused to admit what was staring them in the face when all the signs were there if you opened your eyes. And I'm afraid the situation today is similar. I understand it is difficult for many fans to reconcile the difference between debt and equity but basically when money is put into a football club as debt it remains the property of the owners not the football club and the owners are entitled to charge interest if they wish. Whereas with equity the money becomes the property of the football club and the owners only get a return if the club is profitable and they can take a dividend or if the club is successful and the shares have a value when the club is sold. Steve Hamer's interview was very enlightening because he confirmed that Dwane Sports were charging interest on their loan and he said they did not put money into Rovers as equity because if they did it would be "irrecoverable". In other words they do expect to recover the interest which is racking up in Rovers accounts at the rate of about £14 000 per week. Steve said the interest was "notional" which is not strictly true because if it was notional it would not show in the audited accounts and it would not be recoverable. This interest is an overhead for Rovers when calculating a break even figure and the money supplied via loan does not count towards turnover for FFP / SCMP purposes so, compared to many other lower league clubs where the owners subscribe for equity or make donations, we are at a disadvantage. You mention Scunthorpe United and their 2016 accounts show the owner invested £3.78 million into the club as share capital which gave them a big advantage in playing budget terms. And with Rochdale I have a personal anecdote from many years ago when I was talking to their Chairman about financing and he told me that a very well known TV comedy duo had offered to put money into their club but, he said after a pause, "they wanted to take a charge over our ground" followed by him spluttering with laughter. Most people in the game, including Steve Hamer I expect, are fully aware that owning a club is an indulgence you have to be prepared to pay for and to think you can charge yourself interest and use the assets to secure your debts is "just not football".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 17:41:49 GMT
I wonder what fine the club had to pay over this issue? The penalties imposed on employers that are in breach of the minimum wage legislation are 200% of arrears owed to workers. The maximum penalty is £20,000 per worker. The penalty is reduced by 50% if the unpaid wages and the penalty are paid within 14 days. HMRC also name and shame employers who are penalised.
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 8, 2017 18:09:18 GMT
According to the press this is for the period ending in "early" 2016, assuming that relates to the tax year ending in April 2016, then it looks like the under payment relates to the period including after the Al-Qadi's took over ownership of the club in Feb 2016. I'm not sure the blame can be laid solely at the old owners doors, as shouldn't the new owners have ensured everything was in order, minimum payment wise, at the end of the tax year in April 2016.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Dec 8, 2017 18:57:14 GMT
On a list of 260 companies published by the goverment. List includes primark,sports direct,wolves,falkirk and morton. In the mirror it says bristol rovers failed to pay 52 workers £1,651.86. It states updated 8th dec 2017. Different newspapers and sites come up with similar stuff online. I have altered the thread title to reflect the actual situation and to avoid misleading readers. HTE I've now had to change this thread title twice. HTE BB, please don't alter this thread title again. The first time I accepted that when you posted it was in good faith and reflected poorly on the current owners. It's since become clear that this story relates to the previous owners and I altered the thread title to reflect this. You were not censored, I simply changed the thread so that you were not accidentally misleading people. Clearly by changing the thread again you appear to deliberately trying to mislead people here. I'm sure that's not the case right? I mean, you would not want to do that right?
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Post by gasandelectricity on Dec 8, 2017 18:58:35 GMT
According to the press this is for the period ending in "early" 2016, assuming that relates to the tax year ending in April 2016, then it looks like the under payment relates to the period including after the Al-Qadi's took over ownership of the club in Feb 2016. I'm not sure the blame can be laid solely at the old owners doors, as shouldn't the new owners have ensured everything was in order, minimum payment wise, at the end of the tax year in April 2016. When you buy someone’s home do you pay up their debts afterwards with your own cash? Or do you ensure your payments are all correct and up to date? Oh.....
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Dec 8, 2017 19:03:22 GMT
Feeling the Blues makes a good point though. Why didn't the current board comment? The obvious thing to do, would explain that this was under the old regime and that it has since been dealt with going forward under the current owners. The lack of any comment just adds to people losing faith in the board unfortunately and makes us look like we are still guilty.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Dec 8, 2017 19:10:15 GMT
Feeling the Blues makes a good point though. Why didn't the current board comment? The obvious thing to do, would explain that this was under the old regime and that it has since been dealt with going forward under the current owners. The lack of any comment just adds to people losing faith in the board unfortunately and makes us look like we are still guilty. We might be. But let's wait until they are proven guilty before putting the boot in.
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Post by bumble on Dec 8, 2017 19:11:33 GMT
Sorry, haven't read the articles in detail. Am I right in thinking from the numbers quoted that the average underpayemnt per person per annum is £30?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 19:12:31 GMT
On a list of 260 companies published by the goverment. List includes primark,sports direct,wolves,falkirk and morton. In the mirror it says bristol rovers failed to pay 52 workers £1,651.86. It states updated 8th dec 2017. Different newspapers and sites come up with similar stuff online. I have altered the thread title to reflect the actual situation and to avoid misleading readers. HTE I've now had to change this thread title twice. HTE BB, please don't alter this thread title again. The first time I accepted that when you posted it was in good faith and reflected poorly on the current owners. It's since become clear that this story relates to the previous owners and I altered the thread title to reflect this. You were not censored, I simply changed the thread so that you were not accidentally misleading people. Clearly by changing the thread again you appear to deliberately trying to mislead people here. I'm sure that's not the case right? I mean, you would not want to do that right? How can you mislead people by simply pointing out that my op was censored? The original title reflected the mirror online article i read accurately.
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Post by gregsy on Dec 8, 2017 19:13:43 GMT
Feeling the Blues makes a good point though. Why didn't the current board comment? The obvious thing to do, would explain that this was under the old regime and that it has since been dealt with going forward under the current owners. The lack of any comment just adds to people losing faith in the board unfortunately and makes us look like we are still guilty. Perhaps they need to find out specifics or maybe there wasn't anyone available.... I really think it's daft to question communication on this as in reality it's an issue between employers and employees, and nobody else's business....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 19:14:14 GMT
Sorry, haven't read the articles in detail. Am I right in thinking from the numbers quoted that the average underpayemnt per person per annum is £30? If your already on the minimum wage its probably best not to be underpaid at all.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Dec 8, 2017 19:16:56 GMT
BB, please don't alter this thread title again. The first time I accepted that when you posted it was in good faith and reflected poorly on the current owners. It's since become clear that this story relates to the previous owners and I altered the thread title to reflect this. You were not censored, I simply changed the thread so that you were not accidentally misleading people. Clearly by changing the thread again you appear to deliberately trying to mislead people here. I'm sure that's not the case right? I mean, you would not want to do that right? How can you mislead people by simply pointing out that my op was censored? The original title reflected the mirror online article i read accurately. Your OP was not censored. The thread title was corrected so that you would not be seen as deliberately misleading people. I clearly posted in your OP that I had altered the thread title and I also posted that in the thread itself.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Dec 8, 2017 19:17:56 GMT
Feeling the Blues makes a good point though. Why didn't the current board comment? The obvious thing to do, would explain that this was under the old regime and that it has since been dealt with going forward under the current owners. The lack of any comment just adds to people losing faith in the board unfortunately and makes us look like we are still guilty. Perhaps they need to find out specifics or maybe there wasn't anyone available.... I really think it's daft to question communication on this as in reality it's an issue between employers and employees, and nobody else's business.... No but the media adds the speculation. It is up to us to put a stop to it or we let it escalate. .
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Post by gregsy on Dec 8, 2017 19:22:54 GMT
Perhaps they need to find out specifics or maybe there wasn't anyone available.... I really think it's daft to question communication on this as in reality it's an issue between employers and employees, and nobody else's business.... No but the media adds the speculation. It is up to us to put a stop to it or we let it escalate. . The media have done what they do with this sort of story.... I'm perfectly happy with this being resolved 'in house', as I'm sure it will be....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 19:25:35 GMT
No but the media adds the speculation. It is up to us to put a stop to it or we let it escalate. . The media have done what they do with this sort of story.... I'm perfectly happy with this being resolved 'in house', as I'm sure it will be.... Yes that's why you should remove this post
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